IceDrill is paying out .0016 to bitfunder shareholders before a single dime goes to DeadTerra.

I do not understand this constant hating on DT for what is probably the most heavily-weighted-toward-the-shareholder agreement on the market.

Are you suggesting that the 1st investor in a new company may only invest once the entire world has been invited?

Lots of people complaining here!

Looks to me like DeaDTerra is acting in a favorable manner to the public shareholders.

1) People complained about the "private shareholders" and thus DT offered to pay public shareholders .0016 before any private shareholder gets a dime. That's actually an amazing offer... it means public shareholders get all principle back upon the work of the founders for free.

2) People complained that the terms were changed, fraud fraud fraud! DT simply scaled down the IPO, giving the same price per ghs to the investors as originally promised. To address the continued anger, he now put in a  bid to buy back any shares that early buyers don't want anymore.

Thus he is giving a money back offer to anyone upset, and for those who remain, they get .0016 btc before any private shareholder gets anything!

And yet you yell at DT like he's scamming you?    

PSU upgrades? Why is that required?

And aren't PSU's like only $40 for a great one anyway?

Update: Price reduced to 78 btc per ASIC incl shipping in US. Three of them remain.

sorryIwasbeingdense.png

Ummmm every real estate developer in history?

Not available for local pickup. Location is secret, but it's in the US.

Update: Only 3 available now (2 sold)

-Image: https://i.imgur.com/cF0oxey.jpg

-No problems running.

-I just never upgraded the firmware... partly because I didn't learn how

-Might offer very slight discount for full batch.

PM me 

Hello,

I have five three Batch 1 Avalons I'm looking to sell. They all work perfectly (and are currently mining) but do not have the updated firmware (so you could increase their hashrate from the current 70 ghs to about 85 ghs).

Will sell  one unit or all three together. Price is 60 btc per unit.

Please PM me as I may not check this thread often.


EDIT: Two have been sold, three available now.

Update: 60 BTC each. Three remaining.

I don't believe this is true. A government (or any other entity) cannot maintain a peg indefinitely unless they have a indefinite amount of resources with which to do it (and no, money printing doesn't count ).  If the entity is ALSO trying to control interest rates, that might make the peg even harder to maintain (or maybe easier in some cases) but in any case the peg will be broken, regardless of the interest rate environment.

The Impossible Trinity is indeed impossible. But so is maintaining a peg indefinitely without unlimited resources. Note that a peg CAN be maintained for a long time, years even, but eventually it'll be broken once a group of aggressive, deep-pocket speculators get organized against it. The difficult of doing such a speculative attack on small crypto-currency assets is trivial.  


Here's what you're missing... the speculators will take whatever assets exist on this system, and start buying (or selling) them in one direction over and over and over until the escrow system dies. In other words, they will take the asset and cause it to become one which rises 10% (or more) per day forever (or one which falls in a similar way).

This is why the peg will break. Speculators will buy (or sell) the asset in perpetuity because they know the escrow agent will run out of funds trying to fight them. A sustainable peg is an aberration of a market... and will be severed.  

Very interesting stuff. I love seeing the brilliance among this community. However, I sit in the camp that says the escrow agents aren't going to work.

Whenever someone says the word "peg" in relation to monies or commodities or assets of any kind, huge red flags should go up. We have seen often in discussion regarding Bitcoin, people have suggested, "well why not just peg it to gold, or to dollars, or some other other stable asset to eliminate the volatility?" (Max Keiser suggested such a thing a couple months ago...   )  The reason is that you cannot peg one asset to another in an open market. The peg will be broken.

The reason is what some of the others here have described - it will become the target of a speculative attack. And the attacker has a nearly guaranteed chance of winning if he has enough money to throw at it. In the real world, we have seen such speculative attacks on government currencies including the Thai Baht and UK pound (that's how Soros got famous). If private actors can break the pegs of government currencies, it can be reasonably inferred that breaking a crypto-asset peg with a market cap of only several million dollars would be trivial.

An escrow fund cannot be expected to keep an exchange rate stable when set against the forces of hostile speculators.

Dacoinminster says

He's suggesting that currencies/assets which don't move in a volatile manner, like 10% a day, would be able to be successfully tracked long term by the escrow fund. What he's missing is that when you add speculative attacks, the attacker can turn any otherwise stable asset into an asset that is trying to appreciate/depreciate 10% per day! That's the problem. Anyone with a bunch of money can come in and start acquiring or dumping the asset in question. The escrow fund will bankrupt itself trying to re-balance in perpetuity.

I do not believe there is a way around this problem. If there was, why don't we just create an escrow agent for Bitcoin, right now, that keeps the price forever between $95 and $105?  Why doesn't MtGox create a capital pool of $100m in escrow to enforce this peg? Because someone with $200m will break the peg, and make a killing (and the attacker probably doesn't even need that much when you throw in various leveraged instruments).

I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater here, however. Dacoinminster - do you believe your system is worthy of development if we assumed the escrow/stability idea was proven to be unworkable? Is that escrow/stability system for user-defined currencies the core value proposition of your idea?

For the record, I don't think "stability" of an asset price can be achieve through the machinations of market actors. Stability is something which must be arrived at, over time, as a market finds equilibrium. It's an organic process, which cannot be counterfeited, though so many central planners have tried.

In any case, this is really fascinating technology being discussed and kudos to you OP for the creativity and work that's gone into this.

I think the language barrier is often underestimated. The vast majority of Bitcoin content, knowledge, and discussion is English. Other cultures/languages have to go through the process of translating much of this, or creating their own content. This takes a great deal of time.

Nobody is arguing that Bitcoin is "Big in Argentina". The argument is that it has shown some early signs of a small core of enthusiasts organizing there, and this is very important because once a committed group gets organized, good things start happening. Look for Bitcoin to gain lots of Argentinian users in 2014.

LOL +1

If getting investors a 20% real return in 9 months and getting their original capital back despite 9x exchange rate increase is a "total failure" then I hope to have many more.

Perhaps you missed the part where it mentioned that all the expensed costs of the site development are getting returned to MPEX holders in full. Perhaps you also missed the part where I mentioned MPEX holders are receiving over 3x what private holders are per share, receiving roughly all the money back that was paid in the IPO even after a 9X increase in the BTC price and at a 175% premium to the MPEX market price. Perhaps you missed all that.

Let's put it this way...

Anyone who bought IPO shares is getting all their BTC back, despite a 9x increase in exchange rate, plus made roughly 20% dividend return in 9 months.

No hacks.
No scams.
Avoidance of all legal crises.
Continued market dominance despite throngs of competitors.
& and clean exit that paid MPEX holders 3X over private holders despite any contractual obligation to do so.

Stop being a dick, Abu.

Where is this idea coming from that Bitcoin is being sold for fiat?

Dear Asset Holders,

I have some very important news to share with you. Some of you will be pleased, and some upset, but I believe this to be a solid, desirable, and fair outcome for those who have put their trust in S.DICE.

SatoshiDice is being sold, in full, to a new company that will take over all ownership, operations, and management.  The total sale price is 126,315 BTC, or 0.00126315 BTC per share.

According to the MPEX Agreement, MPEX holders are entitled to receive 0.00126315 BTC per share, alongside other private owners. However, for the good of the MPEX holders and for the sake of the general Bitcoin community, which the site always has intended to support and nurture, SatoshiDice has arranged to pay MPEX holders an additional .00223685 BTC per share bringing the total to 0.0035 BTC per share.

This is a 277% premium over the sale price and a roughly 175% premium over the current market price of S.DICE shares on MPEX. It is also roughly equivalent to the average price of S.DICE shares at IPO (though BTC was $12 back then, and over $90 today).

Note that the MPEX order book for S.DICE was cancelled just prior to this announcement in order to prevent anyone from taking advantage of standing orders.

While I know some S.DICE owners intended to hold for a long time, and will thus be dismayed by the buyout, it is my sincere hope that this compensation level will be amenable. It is substantially higher than the contract mandates, and it is almost 3x higher than all private owners are being paid. It has not been easy to negotiate to this level, but I believe it is the right thing to do.

Further, there will be an additional small amount added to compensate for the previously deducted costs of the new website development, as it did not feel right for S.DICE holders to have paid for development of a site they won’t have a stake in after the buyout.

This letter is being posted roughly 24 hours prior to the payout, at which point MPEX holders will receive .0035 BTC per share plus the small additional amounts mentioned above. MPEX will then de-list the asset and the S.DICE MPEX Agreement will be satisfied. The payout will occur in roughly 20 increments over a period of several hours and will arrive in S.DICE holders’ accounts (in the same manner as dividends). All passthrough operators are responsible for their own assets and customers, obviously.

As per the S.DICE agreement, asset owners do not have voting rights to effect operational changes, nor any rights to negotiate nor block a full buyout of the company.  Nevertheless, SatoshiDice has kept the interests of the asset holders in mind throughout this negotiation process, and has intended to treat these holders fairly, above and beyond contractual obligations.

I highly value and respect the trust you have placed in me, and I hope this outcome reciprocates that respect.

Kind regards,
-Erik Voorhees