The thread got slow, so let me ask another basic question from a newbie who has never used bitcoin. Suppose I am an expert programmer and the operator of a lare bitcoin exchange. Suppose I keep several hundred thousand bitcoins in cold storage, split into (say) 10 lots with keys stored in pen drives, kept in safety deposit boxes of different banks. (Sort of like this guy here http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/27/inside-japan-s-bitcoin-heist.html.) Is there a way I could discover, by inspecting the blockchain or any other method, that I have already fetched and emptied six of those pen drives, and have only four more to go? Inspect her gadget |
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Where is the chapter where they explain how they'll slices him into pieces with a Katana ? to be clear:
1/ The professionals are likely to operate with a primary goal of ensuring that the business continues as a going concern, so as to preserve jobs if at all possible. (wasnt that what Mark was doing?!)
2/ As a practical matter, cases are often advanced via private communications between court-appointed professionals, rather than via formal motions and court hearings. Indeed, the professionals themselves are routinely permitted ex parte communications with the court for purposes of shaping the direction of a case (as far as i can recall that was basically their way of communicating...)
3/ Court hearings tend to be rare. For instance, although a trustee requires court approval before taking several types of actions, the laws do not
condition that approval on the trustee having first provided creditors with notice and an opportunity to object.
4/ There is no official creditors’ committee appointed to protect creditor interests.
5/ As a result of the factors discussed above, a court supervised-restructuring in Japan tends to be far less transparent than in the United States
so as i claimed and reclaimed previously... Checkmateplan b?  
CHECKMATEEdit: only kidding ... but how about "check...... over your shoulder mate" |
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 Come on. Break out! This. Like this ? Disco style?  |
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It was launched in 2009, your "trust" estimate is hardly quantifiable.. and now all of the coins have another element to slow them down "competition"
so the road you describe is not as simple as you make out.... and Dogecoin is still no where near as big at Bitcoin, and if you somehow think that it
will manage to overcome problems that you see in Bitcoin then I would like to know why, as I see problems coming for Doge, partly because it is a immature network. Besides we are not talking "become popular" you are saying get bigger than Bitcoin with 1 year or 2 , and it will be a superior coin, and that is does not exist yet... I am not refuting you outright... I am asking you to describe the birth and journey of this coin and what will make it what you say.
Also it is one thing to say that you can innovate a new coin, with superior features, that will appeal to people, but another to actually do it...
Writing, coding, testing, creating these special Bitcoin beating features you propose is all going to take time (I mean do you know what these features are? can you list some of them) as is getting miners onboard, and then reaching the network size of the BTC, unless they come up with a way to make a huge network spring up overnight.
I think there is going to be competition, and there will be "more than one"
But your timeframe of another coin reaching the network size, the marketcap, merchant use, public awareness etc of one to two years is tight...not impossible but tight... as in we must surely be seeing this coin be born anyday now?
Please do keep me posted, I would be very interested to know about this coin as soon as it appears!
I think while you feel others overestimate the importance of the head start and network headstart of BTC, I think you are underestimating it, as I have said I do believe there will be competition, so I am not flat out not in agreement, but I guess the next coin, the one that take its rightful place where Ripple is now, will be half the marketcap of BTC in one years time... if it is lucky...
Doge showed me perfectly that even with a product, that has no edge in quality whatsoever, can become an popular alternative even with lowbrow hype. Now imagine a coin that has better qualities and a professional marketing team behind it. Coding has never been my thing, but what I have understood is that bitcoin isn't a good invention, but it's a good innovation. Meaning that the code in bitcoin isn't very complex but the way that the code is used and combined to serve this particular idea is the impressive part. And the thing with innovations is that they can easily be replicated and bettered. So, I think that when building will be picked up by anyone else then just some young students who do it out of boredom, then it can actually be made more refined quite quickly. I would value bitcoins headstart more if the development of code would be faster. But it is very very slow and changes that need to be done in my eyes are not even adressed as future plans. So I picture bitcoin to be about the same as it is now in 2 years time and other people will have probably released better quality alternatives. if that is the case could Bitcoin not easily adopt the new feature, and continue on with its headstart, plus a neat new feature? and really, easily replicated innovation? so I guess the 150 odd coins that have just come out did not want to easily replicate the innovation? Do you think that innovation is the realm of big business? is that what you are hinting at? so you are saying that a corporate coin will pop up and it will easily innovate better features, because innovation is easy? or easier with more money?bigger teams budgets? You do not code, but you are making judgement calls on innovation in coding, and making judgement calls on if more bells and whistles will actually make a better product... but you still have not said much about what these features are... these betetr qualities, ease of use as in? what else will it be able to do ? and why will it attract more miners to build a bigger better decentralised network? and in the next year , two at that.... its all one thing to accuse people who are Bitcoin cultists, of using the argument "because I say it is so" but you cannot then use that argument yourself. What are the features? and have you considered that maybe certain features may have been left out on purpose? and that not complex is part of its genius? you see I agree with you, Satoshi did miss a few things which are problematic to the network and they may be solved by a new coin , but the ease of use argument does not hold up as this is being delt with by the surrounding ecosystem...and while innovations can be replicated... with time, effort, money but most importantly brains, a decentralised distributed network has to grow.. again when the coin pops up, in the next lets say 6 months for it to fit into your timecales... then please tell me about it straight away... it will be obvious if it is so superior, and then while the miners are abandoing BTC and the network starts to shrink, then before this coin reaches say 3 billion market cap , then I will buy lots of them... so then it will be a 3rd/quarter of BTC if BTC price stays approx static, that will be about right, so surely about a year off right? but we should know in the next 6 months what that coin will be... when you find it.... you must seek me out and tell me, and I will be all ears !!! when the moment comes remember to tell us all!! we are counting on you kkaspar- this is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope. When it arrives I am IN. probably |
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Interesting little bit of trivia.... this happy looking chap for those of you that do not know is Joseph Goebbels, or Joe Gobbler as I like to call him That chilling look of disdain on his face, is because he has literally just been told that the photographer taking the photos is Jewish! Look at the pure hate!  So eyes, much hate! As you were. (Edit: Never forget the level of mindless assholes that exist in the world) |
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Denial is a powerful thing
Exactly, denial is not just some river in Africa.. and how do you know 'most of the people' see it as a ponzi /pyramid scheme. How can you say you know what most people think? I say, people who think this are mis-informed or just don't understand Bitcoin. Anyway, I've no wish to even get into a debate with you. I've read the last 30 or so pages through today.. there is absolutely no point in getting into it with you. The internet actually helps you to see the general stance of things and you can reflect things on the large number of your friends and aquaintances with different social positions. And most do see bitcoin as a shady pyramid scheme, with most of the coins owned by unknown few and while investing into bitcoin, you are filling the pockets of those unknown few. I agree that there is little use in trying to convert me. I studied this entire subject in depth before I made my decision on what bitcoin is. So it is very hard to bring forward some new information that could change my mind. The internet is like a mirror... |
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I was wondering if you would say that...so in a year, or two a currency that does not even exist yet, is going to be created, launched, mined, gain popularity and out-trade Bitcoin in the next 52 to 104 weeks, a coin that literally does not exist now.. interesting thought...
What will it do that will make it able to grow this fast and this well that any coins cannot do at present? and even if it is a great coin, can you explain how you think it will grow the network in such a rapid time?
Remember how fast bitcoin did it. And with less attention to the entire subject. Bitcoin has paved the way and now people take the entire idea more seriously. How long Bitcoin did it in , so 5 plus years then (we do not know how long Satoshi worked to create the code/concept/features and test it before 2009)? So lets call it 6 years... maybe more... Bitcoin was already trusted in around 2011. Mainly in a drug community, but still. The new currency needs security and a more user-friendly usability. The attention will come quickly because there is already a lot of attention on the subject. Bitcoin had to catch the attention on the entire subject itself. If a crypto emerges with better qualities, then people will start jumping cryptos fast. It's the nature of products that are supported mostly by hype. Support from hype is a fragile thing because people will get amazed by new alternatives very quickly. I think that doggecoin perfectly showed the nature of bitcoin. You don't even need a better quality product and simplistic lowbrow hype was all it needed to become quite popular. It was launched in 2009, your "trust" estimate is hardly quantifiable.. and now all of the coins have another element to slow them down "competition" so the road you describe is not as simple as you make out.... and Dogecoin is still no where near as big at Bitcoin, and if you somehow think that it will manage to overcome problems that you see in Bitcoin then I would like to know why, as I see problems coming for Doge, partly because it is a immature network. Besides we are not talking "become popular" you are saying get bigger than Bitcoin with 1 year or 2 , and it will be a superior coin, and that is does not exist yet... I am not refuting you outright... I am asking you to describe the birth and journey of this coin and what will make it what you say. Also it is one thing to say that you can innovate a new coin, with superior features, that will appeal to people, but another to actually do it... Writing, coding, testing, creating these special Bitcoin beating features you propose is all going to take time (I mean do you know what these features are? can you list some of them) as is getting miners onboard, and then reaching the network size of the BTC, unless they come up with a way to make a huge network spring up overnight. I think there is going to be competition, and there will be "more than one" But your timeframe of another coin reaching the network size, the marketcap, merchant use, public awareness etc of one to two years is tight...not impossible but tight... as in we must surely be seeing this coin be born anyday now? Please do keep me posted, I would be very interested to know about this coin as soon as it appears! I think while you feel others overestimate the importance of the head start and network headstart of BTC, I think you are underestimating it, as I have said I do believe there will be competition, so I am not flat out not in agreement, but I guess the next coin, the one that take its rightful place where Ripple is now, will be half the marketcap of BTC in one years time... if it is lucky... |
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I was wondering if you would say that...so in a year, or two a currency that does not even exist yet, is going to be created, launched, mined, gain popularity and out-trade Bitcoin in the next 52 to 104 weeks, a coin that literally does not exist now.. interesting thought...
What will it do that will make it able to grow this fast and this well that any coins cannot do at present? and even if it is a great coin, can you explain how you think it will grow the network in such a rapid time?
Remember how fast bitcoin did it. And with less attention to the entire subject. Bitcoin has paved the way and now people take the entire idea more seriously. How long Bitcoin did it in , so 5 plus years then (we do not know how long Satoshi worked to create the code/concept/features and test it before 2009)? So lets call it 6 years... maybe more... |
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Do you guys think twobitidiot is holding something back? Or he might be in on it somehow..
I am not sure... but it seems to me he has little regard for the Bitcoin community and was behaving in his own self interest... Did he lie about something? Not that I can say. Cannot know that because we do not know the facts yet.... all we have is rumor upon rumor. Just seemed a little quick to the mark, and a tad zealous. Plus the supposed take over documents, and some of the other things seemed bordering on trollish The tone and the style did not seem to me to be one of being helpful... maybe that is just me. Also he states that his leak did not have any bearing on any "possible buy out or take over" well he must have very high info indeed maybe he was in the room? or is it possible that his leak did cause damage? who knows... but I am sure it would not have stopped him... Also he claims to have all of the pieces to the story... well what is he waiting for? quit with keeping us in suspense already... go see that lawyer what 9.00 this morning... and .... ... .. . nothing and if he does have "it"... then spill it and quit with the suspense already... Hitchcock he ain't  |
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Do you guys think twobitidiot is holding something back? Or he might be in on it somehow..
I am not sure... but it seems to me he has little regard for the Bitcoin community and was behaving in his own self interest... ˌäpərˈt(y)o͞onizəm/ |
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This whole thing is a Byzantine generals problem (GOX)
edit: and I would still love to know the story behind the sketchy as fk email I got from "Mt Gox" yesterday withh the .pif attachment
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I think twobitidiot got news of the gag order and took full advantage of it to manipulate the market knowing his story couldn't be disputed.
Yes, from what I have seen thus far of Two Bit I have 0 bit respect. |
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I initially thought we were seeing a takeover or sell out from MK, and maybe that is still the case... but the more I think about it the more I wonder if
the guberment have their tricky paws on this...
oh look another Unicorn...
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I am sure you do... who else would spend so much time on the Voynich manuscript other than a man that likes a mystery. |
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The wallets belonging to Gox that people have found so far (containing about 550k BTC) have not been touched since 2011.
Just to confuse the issue a bit more: Consider my pet theory, namely that Mark sold those 750 kBTC of client deposits at (say) 15$ apiece off-market, when the market price was (say) 10$, without imagining that the price would increase so much, so fast. The buyer of those coins would now be pressuring Mark to hide that deal, otherwise MtGOX clients may go to court to void the deal and recover those coins from him. They may be floating all those rumors "I lost the keys", "the coins were stolen", "the coins were seized" --- to see which story the public will find more believable; or just to create confusion until people get bored and stop asking what really happened. Do they have a lot of Unicorns in Brazil? |
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Some facts about MtGox would be nice... really nice.
It's becoming more and more clear that the coins haven't been stolen, they've just lost the keys lol. Once this is confirmed, should be very bullish. Yeaahh... but you prove my point exactly... I have not seen anything clear at all, and certainly not from MtGox themleves... just very weird maybe real maybe fake, take overs and crisis letters and theories, and guesses and maybe they lost x or maybe they lost XXX or maybe they did not lose X but just the keys to X , and maybe the cat has them, and maybe the illuminated ones are going to take over, but we have a strong feeling something was stolen? maybe mislaid, technically speaking I cannot quite put my finger on what may have been lost/stolen/kidnapped/spent/blown out of a zebras ass. Back to my original point.... Some FACTS about Mt Gox would be nice. All I have seen for days is guess work as that is all we have. Only Mark can give us facts and I don't think we'll be hearing anything solid from him for a long time, if ever. I am not so sure... Yeah this is all very retarded, and to be honest I am not saying I would trust what comes out of his mouth, but what I am saying is the obvious, we have not actually had any news from MtGox, outright to say the one thing that we all want to know "The coins are gone" sure we have not heard the opposite either... but this is a bit like going to the Dr's and having a check up and then spending the next week living at a hypochondriacs house and frantically listing off all of the terrible things that could be wrong.... that still does not mean when you get to the Dr;s they will not turn around and tell you that you have cancer of the A hole- but it certainly does little use dreaming up Alzheimers and aids into the mix before you even get to the Dr's.. I am sure the fit has hit the fan, but I have heard every figure from a few thousand, to 750K to millions to all of the Bitcoins having been stolen... they cannot all be true... (yeah ok all of the coins could cover a million or 750K but you get the point) then its they are being investigated, then taken over, then insolvent, then doing a bunk... then they possibly do have the coins, then they do not... Lot of disinfos... not helped by silence from Mt Gox... What we need is for MK to come out and say - all is lost, and this is the cause, or all is not lost, you need to wait until x. The fact that we have not had one or the other is odd- and as little as I trust MK, I do not trust twobit not one bit. The most likely event changes over time, that's why there are so many conflicting reports. Mark hasn't come out to say 'we've lost the coins' because he still hopes he can get access to them or that gox can be acquired. Yes I am up to date with the theories... and I happen to think it quite likely that the coins are "out of reach atm" and so my guess is the same as your guess... would be nice not to be guessin' no mo. |
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*snip
Lot of disinfos... not helped by silence from Mt Gox...
What we need is for MK to come out and say - all is lost, and this is the cause, or all is not lost, you need to wait until x.
The fact that we have not had one or the other is odd- and as little as I trust MK, I do not trust twobit not one bit.
not gonna happen. they just stole the coins and are never going to admit it. instead, they will hide behind that malleability problem. You'll NEVER get a clear statement whatsoever It's so much more than "odd". At this point it's just poof of guilt. They're just preparing to sell the business (without the coins...) and then, adios amigos... (i am using "them" because i believe that in order for Gox employees to keep their mouth shut until now, they should have had some piece of dat huge cake too.) yah... but even if that is the case a statement saying "all coins are lost" would still be in order. |
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"This is by no means a death knell for bitcoin or virtual currencies, but it underscores the potential benefits of regulation," Benjamin Lawsky, superintendent of the New York Department of Financial Services, said of the Mt. Gox shutdown in an interview Tuesday. Mr. Lawsky's office is considering potential new regulations for virtual-currency companies and held two days of public hearings about the issue last month. Write to Michael J. Casey at michael.j.casey@wsj.com and Robin Sidel at robin.sidel@wsj.comThanks |
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