If you don't need it, I'd save it. Many people believe that over time it will continue to increase in value. However, if you aren't sure you can always sell half and keep half, that way you hedge your bets and come out ahead no matter what happens. No one knows the future value, so it is all a guess but many think it will either thrive or fail so it will be worth a lot more or zero with little in between. Lots of money and time have been invested by smart people, so every day the likelihood of it going to zero decreases, I believe. Since a few weeks ago, I've taken a mild interest in Bitcoins because the way the system works intrigued me. I did some mining w/ a aspare computer of mine and ended up with about 0.01 BTC. I made a few small bets on a Bitcoin gambling website...and ended up winning 20 BTC.
The transfer just confirmed, and I have no idea what to do with the ~$2,800 USD in Bitcoins that are sitting in my wallet.
Should I cash out now at $140/BTC, or should I hold onto them (hoping the price will rise further)? I've read some scary things about a "bitcoin bubble", but I've also seen some people who think that the price will double by the end of the year.
What are your suggestions?
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Hi, As long as we're asking, can people purchase things from overseas without running afoul of the capital controls? e.g. a new server, ASIC miner, 70 inch plasma TV, new car? I'm just curious how trade hasn't completely stopped given the capital controls. I'm sure everyone here feels for you. Are the cash withdrawal limit waves already? If so, it's not that hard to get the cash out. If this is true I'd advise anyone to do this ....
Capital control is still enforced. ATM limits are the same. From personal account you cannot withdraw more than 300 EUR daily. 5000 EUR is maximum monthly allowance for transfers abroad. Business accounts can transfer more but every wire to be approved by bank (and they often refuse). |
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Or it is needed in order to delay future battles until bitcoin is in use in enough places worldwide that it will be too late to stop. :-) Agencies tried very hard to regulate Paypal out of existence too in the very beginning, but it had grown quickly and could afford to fight back.
The bitcoin foundation is needed, if nothing else than to fight the future legal battles that will surely come.
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The term "longer term" depends on your time frame. Many believe that "longer term" (meaning 5-10 years), bitcoin will retain its value and in all likelihood increase its value while fluctuating along the way. The entire history of bitcoin has been it increasing in value in fits and starts of course, but overall a quite steep uptrend. I am not sure if I agree that people only want stability in as much as they want either stability or an increase in value of bitcoin in terms of fiat currencies (or things like gold, silver etc). It is only the downward trends that bother people, so I don't think everyone wants stability only, they would be fine with a slow ratcheting up in value. :-) Bitcoin as a currency isn't stable enough for people to invest and rely on it for a longer term and that is the main reason why people wont accept is as a payment for services. Hell if I have a car dealership and a guy comes to me and says I would give you 500Bitcoins for a car I would never accept regardless of the fact that I know what Bitcoin is. Just to risky and many dont like to gamble.
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+1. They were being slowly robbed for years by being forced to contribute to something that they never believed in. Now that it is official, it is a non-event. Crazy stuff. I think you've underestimated the value of bitcoin to allay fear of the future. And I'm not talking Armageddon. 10% interest with a -5% real return would be bad enough. Its a big market -- a significant portion of the value of gold is attributable to this service. Of course gold's role here is tarnished due to its ability to be detected, difficulty of being transferred, having been (once upon a time) declared illegal for this purpose and ultra high value density (hard to actually buy lunch with it). So a diverse commodity strategy (gold, silver, bitcoin) makes a lot of sense... bitcoin ESPECIALLY looks good in the boiled-frog scenario (where life goes on, basic services still work, just another day where your savings are getting pilfered) compared to gold/silver. Read the above posts from actual Portuguese people. They are basically saying this is a non-event because no-one in Portugal ever believed that they'd see a dime from their "retirement" anyway!!! WTF?! That's like saying I'm not worried about radiation exposure b/c I already have cancer.  So bitcoin HAS utility right now -- its utility is peace of mind. And of course it does have "raw" utility -- the ability to buy tons of stuff either direct or via services like Gyft... |
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I just wanted to say that I think there is a difference between the "1%" in terms of the financial 1% and the power/politician 1%. The power 1% control the guns, and the money 1% often (not always, there are bad apples in every group) are trying to protect themselves from the thugs who control the guns. As long as so many things are subject vote instead of liberty guaranteed by right, you are going to have corruption and politicians trying to sell themselves to the highest bidder. There will be no incentive for most of them to remove the temptation since they are profiting from it. When everything is political, no one is safe from another gang of thugs. I agree about the implications to BTC etc. ;-) Like someone said its a zero sum game, someone has to lose in order for someone to gain. The 1% gains 99% lose means that the 1% can gain ALOT while the 99% barely notices (until now) that it has been losing. The ponzi scheme the US runs affects the entire world not just a nation. Thus the inflation rate is indicative of the fact that the currency is wide spread and used across the globe, meaning that as the system grows and expands some more, that when inflation does it, it will hit so hard that it will completely crush the entire global economy. There's no turning back and nowhere you can go run to avoid a collapse. If you input $5 trillion into the economy and the inflation barely budges this tells you the system is designed to be a too big to fail type of economy in that since a normal nation would be bankrupt by now the US isn't because it is being used across the globe. That doesn't mean you can print $15 trillion more, but just that it will take a longer period of time to realize the inflation since that $5 trillion has to be coughed up by the 99% somehow. The fact that the hockey stick curve is steepening tells me they are prepared to print even more to raise inflation to acceptable levels (nation wide) but forgetful of the fact that it is only because the whole economy relies on the USD that it is why inflation is not rising and it will rise after all that money is flushed out of the hands of the elite and/or military bombs wasting the debt in thin air.
This is the reason btc hit $266 that is no small feat. The pattern it is creating suggests deeper problems for our economy and very bullish for bitcoin economy. Also now that JPM openly is seen to manipulate precious metals, average joe's and investors are looking away from holding PM contracts in the open market and into other forms of investments which act as safe havens (other than jpy/usd/chf). These ones are now in the hands of central bank intervention which will make matters worse long term.
Also you may notice a spike in inflation if and when middle east oil producing nations get away from the petrodollar system and uses something else,a nything else
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Wow. So there are two (or more) types of Euros now. So much for a single currency! It seems difficult to believe that this can last over the long term, but perhaps because Cyprus is relatively smaller than say Germany, it can be done. Got some interesting news from my colleagues in Spain.
They confirmed that Spanish banks instructed to freeze any account which receives incoming transfer from Cyprus.
Another European countries may have similar practice.
Looks like EURO hold in Cyprus is "tainted" and is not welcomed in many European countries.
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Every company that adopts it helps! :-) And it is over 141k as of now. Even if it "only" gets to number one and stays there, the publicity is good. From my tech friends, many of heard of bitcoin. From the non-tech people, not many have. now hopeing its done and happen soon
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Yes. As for when, it just depends on the adoption rate and events in the world that encourage people to protect themselves financially by using BTC as a hedge against inflation and to protect themselves from bail-in type events. What do you think BTC will hit $200 again?
If yes, how many days we have to wait?
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Not so much any more. People have switched, including blockchain.info, iirc. ...
As Mt.Gox still is the price setter (or are they?) this situation is actually hampering the development of Bitcoin and it's credibility if the community doesn't react.
...
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There are countries in South America and Central America that would benefit from this if/when it catches on. Venezuela, Argentina among others. Given the state of the world and banks today, many people would benefit from hedging a little in bitcoin, gold, silver etc. anywhere in the world where governments want to take money from one person to give to another. :-) I can see why Cypriots would adopt a system that prevents their money from being taken out of their own hands.
I wonder where else, if proven effective, this could catch on next.
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He didn't get any of the amount he showed he lost back, no. Most of his account was lost to the power-hungry and money-hungry politicians who want to buy votes any way they can, that was the "over 700k" lost out of around 850k if I remember correctly.. :-) This is a long thread, and I can only imagine how upset zeroday was when it happened and now, but he seems to have voted with his feet and gone to a better jurisdiction. I haven't read all of the posts in this thread (yet), did the OP get any money back?
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No, I wouldn't personally. If you could get it 2 months ago, then yes, but by then I don't think it will be a good deal. You can look at the mining calculators (e.g. http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/) to calculate the odds. It looks like a lot more ASICs will be available then that are better than current generation ASICs. If the price of one BTC is $130, and this costs $1300, then you'd need to make 10 BTC to break-even (excluding electricity). So it depends on the difficultly then, and the increases coming as to whether you would ever break-even on it. The problem is that you are talking two months out and there are no guarantees on delivery, and it is a crapshoot as to what other ASICs will be shipping by then. It is just very uncertain, so whatever you do, be careful. edit: There was a thread somewhere on here that compared various ASIC miners and relative costs, but I couldn't find it or I'd link to it for you. Hello guys,
I want to invest in a rig, about 1.3k$, but a friend talked to me and told me that a big batch of BFL machines would go in December. More miners, more difficulty, less bitcoins for us all.
If you could get a 25 GH/s for the price above in late October/early November, would you do it?
I need opinions and help, we cannot do this kind of investments everyday :s
Thanks,
Hugo
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Something like https://gpgtools.org/index.html with your own open source mail server and computer? Right now it is a crapshoot about what is secure and what is not. Between certificate authorities being compromised so you don't know if you are being MITMed, backdoors in MS software (and potentially Mac OS X), Blackberry, iOS, Android (plus either intentionally crippled or stupidly designed PRNGs), Tor issues, and the like, you have everything to worry about if you really need something that is secure. As far as a random (ha ha) web site, you don't know who is really behind it (as stated above by GreyHawk and NP some web sites in particular). In the past you might have thought that big companies (Google, Apple, RIM, MS, IBM etc) would stand up for privacy, but in reality none of them have been doing so as of now from what has been published. Or at worst, they've used poor security practices or allowed working groups to be derailed so that the standards can be more easily corrupted. I heard today to the TV that the "N$ A" normally hacks into Gmail. Does anyone know of any good secure email services?
I probably need to check out the bit message thing too.
Thanks
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Very true. Unfortunately Tor (et al) are not yet to the point that many would like. :-) |
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If you don't have the keys, nothing is completely safe. Are coins mostly safe there for the moment? Sure, but if you are not going to do anything with them at Mt. Gox, move them out to a wallet that you control, not some third party. And that goes for any third party, not just Mt. Gox. There is always a risk if someone else holds your coins because they are in control, not you. And they may even have ownership, and just owe you them by contract. Anyway, as long as you don't have the keys, there is always a risk. If you need to move them back to Mt. Gox (or elsewhere) later for some reason, you know how easy it is to do so. It is better to avoid the risk if you are at all worried, and given that you asked, it seems you might be a little. Just make sure that wherever you move the coins is safe. edit: Tirapon has good advice above. I bought my btc with fiat at gox and now I have bitcoins, is there any downside to just keeping my bitcoins on their site? I'm planning to hold for the long run, so i could see the potential downsides to not moving them to a personal wallet, what I don't know if one of those potential downsides is a complete loss of all "btc's" as accounted in my mtgox account.
I have 2fa.
The reason I ask is I see lots of people stating "everyone is getting their money/btc out of gox" But I'm not, so I'm either doing something stupid by just leaving them there, or I'm not as paranoid as the rest of people, and feel safe with mt.gox.
Anybody care to enlighten me?
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In hindsight, yes, things were clear, but not at the time. We are dealing with two extremes here: freedom and authoritarianism. Whether the authoritarianism is socialism, communism, fascism, corporatism, dictatorships, or some other -ism, they are all cut from the same cloth: power-hungry people seizing the reins of a government by some method (elections, perverting the governing documents of the country, guns or whatever) and then attempting to control everyone else through force and deceit. The fight isn't between the left and the right, but the free and the ones who want to control and enslave them by hook or by crook. The sooner people realize the fight is between being free or not - and that includes attempting to use the government to live at the expense of someone else through getting something for "free" (free to them, someone is always paying), the better. One hopes that Bitcoin will help to make it clear that what you earn belongs to you, not someone else merely because they want it.  During fascism most things were clear as crystal, you knew exactly who was fucking you and why.
Now we have pretty much no idea most of the time.
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Very true. I am less worried about encryption etc being cracked than weakened. Eg back doors, compromised certificate authorities, large numbers of compromised Tor nodes, and importantly purposefully weakened PRNGs. The math is the safest part, the implementation of the tools (OSs, compilers programs) are where exploit opportunities are located. Remember. This website is not safe.
Bitcoin probably is.
Just check the certificate in address bar:
The issuer:
CN = GeoTrust Global CA
O = GeoTrust Inc.
C = US
Oh US... I wonder if NSA has the keys...
The web security isn't really a hard thing to crack. You have handful of authorities and if you get to them whole chain unravels... There is points of weakness and USA government has access to those...
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