Ya -- I really cannot stress enough how necessary it is to reduce total supply and PoW phase. Can't sleep because my mind is all worked up about this. I want what is best for the longevity of this coin. Just think about it:
If things remain unchanged -- what group will be holding the majority control on the price once anon features go live? Will it be the miners (selling the price down) or investors (buying the price up)? It will be 100% be the miners holding majority control --> because 75% of all coins will be minted in 2 months (this is way too many coins way too soon) especially considering that XC's biggest selling point was already delivered two months ago (by that point in time).
Again, this would be somewhat of a different story if anon features released near or at the end of PoW phase (because the expectation would help sustain buyer confidence). But it is not. Anon feature is the "hot thing" right now, and the hype around it will only be suppressed as 25 million more XC flood the market in two months. People buy on news and sell on fact. Once anon feature (the news) is released, XC will have an extremely hard time increasing in value in light of 25m (75%) of the supply being minted and thrown into the market. Two months of sell offs is a long time and will assuredly decrease buyer confidence.
Not to mention, 2 months down the road, there will surely be another coin to be 100% PoS with anon features before we reach our 100% PoS stage. It is crucial that XC becomes 100% PoS with anon feature before any other coin.
XC needs to reduce both total supply and PoW phase to help ensure healthy / constant buy pressure. DRK reduced their block reward (and probably would have done more, had they been PoS), because they knew this move was necessary as they drew nearer to implementing darksend. DRK team is really genius when it comes to creating market demand (for this reason and their requiring of 10,000 DRK taken off the market for each masternode).
This is exactly correct as veritasBS said:
Let me walk you through what will happen if the coin specs stay how they are currently:
1) There will be a big run in price when this PoS coin is the first to release the wallet.
2) We will get to a market cap of say 10 million.
3) There will be a fast decline in price but because this IS a coin with a quality dev and features, it will level off to some where around 6 million market cap.
4) Then 25 million more coins will come flooding in to the market over next 100 days. The price per coin will start a slow decline to 1/5 of where it was when it settled after the run.
5)The investors will only take so much loss and jump ship somewhere in the decline.
6) By the time PoW ends, you have many coins on the market with the EXACT same features so you no longer have an advantage.
The opportunity is NOW to make this a lasting coin. Use the advantage the dev has built to make this the premier anon coin...anything else is poor management.
My Proposal:
10m coins (or less) and let PoW continue for another 1-2 weeks (1 is best) max with reduced block rewards.
This will help allow for market cap growth, will help ensure XC is the first 100% PoS coin with anon tech, and will give time for an XC multipool to be set up and launched immediately when PoW ends.
Either this, or extend the PoW mining period years into the future with greatly reduced block rewards. I think this is better than changing nothing (I still think that the first 100% PoS anon featured coin is this coins biggest selling point). But if it remains the same --> yes, this coin will still be successful (if anon releases), but all I see is unnecessary value suppression for the future of this coin.
So true, I am sending this comment to the BTC devs immediately in hopes they cut off PoW supply and shift to PoS immediately. If a coin has true value, it will rise. End of story. If the entire DRK rise is due to devs "creating market demand" as you put it (others would call it market manipulation, potato, potatoe), then the true value of DRK is not .025 BTC. If alts need to resort to these types of tactics then maybe ::gasp:: the true value of virtually all alt coins is 0? Yes, idiots buy the brand new coin to hit the market when the supply is low, and then, surprise surprise, price drops because they do not spend 2 minutes doing the math to figure out this coin is still in a stage of astronomical inflation. That is an example of an unsavvy investor, not a poorly designed coin. And what would be so wrong with miners controlling 75% of all the XC? They invest money into the mining equipment, electricity, time, and ya know, keep the network of a PoW coin alive. Miners mine the coins, investors buy them from the miners. That's how it works. If miners see no value in the alts they are mining, well yeah, they are gonna dump for BTC. If there is value in the coin, they will mine and hold. Why is it that miners getting more XC bothers you so much? Could it be because your share of XC will be diluted, and the market won't be able to be controlled by a small group of market manipulators? Maybe you are right though, it is true that a coin will rise faster and higher with a quick mining period to put the coins in the hands of as few people as possible. It will rise as far as those manipulating the market will allow it to. Until the giant red candle hits. Hold on......lemme check CINNI price really quick. YIKES! Order books looking sickly. Ya must have dumped at 38k satoshis huh? Why didn't you apply your genius to "create market demand" for CINNI? Oh, the market demand will be created with CINNI's innovative encrypted messaging system right? I saw the little pictogram on twitter, it looks like something I would scrawl on a napkin to explain public key encryption to a 5 year old. Innovation! |
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I come to implore the dev to please reduce block reward ASAP. Price has now only risen 5000% in 48 hours. Multipool dumping is stifling growth. I require 50000% growth within first week before I can dump and move on.
And....errrr....uhhhh.....I believe in this coin, long term growth, blah blah.
what's the price now? he was being sarcastic and indicating we are all money hungry selfish low life's, just because we don't want 17million+ coins to saturate the market in the next 3 months, i think it would be a great idea to lower block rewards to extend mining for years to come like DRK or btc, but apparently that makes me greedy.. When did I ever claim to NOT be money hungry and selfish? I have no problem with pumping and dumping scam coins. I wasn't here in the really early days of BTC, so pump and dumps are a major source of my BTC intake. Just annoyed with all the BS and convoluted reasoning as to why abruptly stopping PoW mining, or significantly reducing coin supply, is so good for the health of the coin, if this is supposedly more than just a pump and dump. OH NO, I AM 100% IN THIS FOR THE LONG TERM, BIG BELIEVER IN XC! IT IS GOOD FOR THE COINS TO BE CUT OFF, TOO MANY FLOODING THE MARKET! Oh, why yes, I do hold 250k XC I mined at low difficulty and bought at crazy low prices before an anonymous wallet was announced, why do you ask? IGNORE MY MASSIVE STASH OF COINS! THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! I mean, seriously, some of you are fighting for this so hard I think you are all starting to believe your own bullshit. Now extending the PoW for years to come is an idea I would be more able to get behind. I have never been a fan of these quick mining period PoS coins. And yes (in anticipation of newbie and jr member responses), 3 months is still a VERY fast mining period. To achieve this though, a hard fork would need to be implemented very quickly to avoid needing to abruptly drop the block reward ridiculously low. At this point, any change in the reward scheme is going to put a stain on XC and IMO is not worth it LONG TERM. Yes, short term it slows down the pump and dump, sorry! congrads on the 250k lucky man, i hope we can come to a agreement, i just want to get on with everyone to be honest, i think reducing the block rewards is the way to go, miners can keep mining, and investors will see a nice stable investment, win win and it won't require a hard fork, drk did simaler and they are doing fine, it will hurt us more to not do it, but anyway, congrads on the 250k that's a great amount to hold, hope you get rich. I don't hold 250k, I was mocking all the pump and dumpers in this thread. |
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I come to implore the dev to please reduce block reward ASAP. Price has now only risen 5000% in 48 hours. Multipool dumping is stifling growth. I require 50000% growth within first week before I can dump and move on.
And....errrr....uhhhh.....I believe in this coin, long term growth, blah blah.
what's the price now? he was being sarcastic and indicating we are all money hungry selfish low life's, just because we don't want 17million+ coins to saturate the market in the next 3 months, i think it would be a great idea to lower block rewards to extend mining for years to come like DRK or btc, but apparently that makes me greedy.. When did I ever claim to NOT be money hungry and selfish? I have no problem with pumping and dumping scam coins. I wasn't here in the really early days of BTC, so pump and dumps are a major source of my BTC intake. Just annoyed with all the BS and convoluted reasoning as to why abruptly stopping PoW mining, or significantly reducing coin supply, is so good for the health of the coin, if this is supposedly more than just a pump and dump. OH NO, I AM 100% IN THIS FOR THE LONG TERM, BIG BELIEVER IN XC! IT IS GOOD FOR THE COINS TO BE CUT OFF, TOO MANY FLOODING THE MARKET! Oh, why yes, I do hold 250k XC I mined at low difficulty and bought at crazy low prices before an anonymous wallet was announced, why do you ask? IGNORE MY MASSIVE STASH OF COINS! THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! I mean, seriously, some of you are fighting for this so hard I think you are all starting to believe your own bullshit. Now extending the PoW for years to come is an idea I would be more able to get behind. I have never been a fan of these quick mining period PoS coins. And yes (in anticipation of newbie and jr member responses), 3 months is still a VERY fast mining period. To achieve this though, a hard fork would need to be implemented very quickly to avoid needing to abruptly drop the block reward ridiculously low. At this point, any change in the reward scheme is going to put a stain on XC and IMO is not worth it LONG TERM. Yes, short term it slows down the pump and dump, sorry! |
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I come to implore the dev to please reduce block reward ASAP. Price has now only risen 5000% in 48 hours. Multipool dumping is stifling growth. I require 50000% growth within first week before I can dump and move on.
And....errrr....uhhhh.....I believe in this coin, long term growth, blah blah.
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All I hear is "please dev, I bought an assload really cheap and mined a ton on low difficulty, now cut off the supply so no one else in the world gets any!".
Shameless.
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To all bitching about multipools, they exist, we know this, so stop bitching. If multipool miners don't see the value in XC, let them dump and buy it from them. Continue mining and hold.
I am all for a good old pump and dump, made alot off of shit coins.
XC was supposed to be different. XC was supposed to be about fairness, long term growth, new ideas, new technology, organic growth and not manipulated growth.
When it comes down to it, all of this whining is 100% about HIGHEST PRICE NOW IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION, pump pump, dump dump!
There is literally no other reason to change the reward scheme or mining period.
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Yes I see it, but nevertheless I don't think it is good for the long term run. For example some investors avoid nxt because they have a distribution problem. I don't know if it is possible to have a richlist for anon coin but still the doubt for an unfair distribution is enough to avoid people. In the next month there will be plenty of anon coins and we have to compete with them. people have the choice. They will not pick a scam coin.
I guess I don't see how how whether mining goes on for 1 day or 1,000 days really effects distribution, either way it is the big multipools who will be getting all the coins. If you want the coin then why not buy it, at this point it's just a few cents a coin, hardly expensive. This gets a +1 from me as well +1 from me as well. Multipools dumping will hurt the price that the first PoS coin with anon wallet deserves. Something needs to be done about the current mining phase / supply cap. If miners want to mine XC, let them do so from a XC multipool -- which will raise the price of XC rather than lower it. - there will be 30m total supply and if this goes to 50k sats, there will be 7.8m market cap = no room to move up. If price runs to 100k sats, people will dump ( because it will need to be 15m market cap when all coins are released to keep this price). = no growth beyond 100k sats, and people will dump the price down once/if it hits 100k. If we change to 7.5m max coins and stop PoW when anon wallet releases. XC at 50k sats will have a market cap of 1.9m = much room for price growth & sustainability well past 200k sats or higher. Do you understand the math behind this guys? Total supply is important. And 30m supply is too much for a coin with anon tech. Then stop the pump and dump, mine and hold, and buy coins from multipool dumpers. Notice only thing being discussed here is price? Not the tech, not the long term prospects or health of the coin, not sticking to the spec laid out in the ANN (which in my view is a signed contract between miners, investors, and the community when mining starts), not what is fair or right. Your only argument is "WE NEED LESS COINS SO PRICE CAN PUMP AS HIGH AS POSSIBLE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE!". Surprise surprise coming from a CINNI dev. Atcsecure, if you cannot see this scam artist for what he is and what he is trying to do, turn your coin into just another pump and dump which you specifically stated you did not want to see happen, you are blind. For the record, I hold 18k XC and am mining it, and am tempted more and more to dump them everyday if this is the direction the coin is taking. |
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This board, and all alts, are hopeless. Alts, and has forum, have been overrun by blatant scam artists and spoiled impatient children.
Dev specifically stated he did NOT want this coin to be yet another pump and dump scam.
Now CINNI dev seems to be poking his head in for whatever reason, red flags go off on that one.
Now there is talk of PoW reward reduction, because god forbid anyone needs to wait 3 WHOLE MONTHS for their coin to go to the moon. 3 days is an acceptable amount of time to allow for fair and even distribution of coins these days.
If a coin cannot stand more than a week of PoW (so that it is easy for a small group of people to hoard the majority of the coins and fix the price), then it stands to reason that coin has no real value or else it wouldn't need to resort to such tactics to see price rise.
Now guess what, XC is becoming exactly what atcsecure said it wasn't supposed to be, a pump and dump scam.
Fuck XC, fuck alts and their "communities" (ie, shills waiting to pass their bag along to the next guy at a higher price), I'm out.
Hope the pump and dump goes well for y'all.
Atcsecure hasn't made a decision yet and I think he is feeling pressure here to reduce the POW, I agree that if he sticks to keeping it fair it should stay how it was originally with 100 Days of POW that is an extremely fair distribution and changing it will definitely leave the community open to being called a scam or unfair. Just let him do his thing and release the coin the way it was intended for it to be released. Half the people pumping the price up are just looking to make a quick buck dumping it, A lot of these guys realize that they have pumped the price already up to a level where it is going to get smashed by multipools and they want that quick buck so they want to cut the distribution. XC is already over 3 times more profitable to mine then darkcoin which will keep a supply of coins coming in for new traders and people who have already pumped it looking for a quick buck don't like that. I don't agree with the last part, the Dev so far has done everything he said he would and I still have a lot of respect for him! Everybody knew how long the POW phase was and I don't think the dev should be preassured by P&Ders to cut it short in order for a few to make exorbitant profits. Its already up 2500% in two days isn't that enough??? Cutting the total supply down is good for the coin. 2 more months of minig will greatly hold back the coins growth. We are talking about an anon wallet release here -- this is history and we want to be the first fully PoS coin to have it. If mining goes on for another 2 months (heck, even 1 month), there is likely another coin that will become PoS first to have anon features. This is another reason why the mining period and total supply should be cut. Are you a 5 year old with ADHD? Hold back it's growth? 2500% growth in a few days is not enough growth? 3 months is "way way too much mining" if you only care about the growth of a coin in the short term. Get in and out with your 10000% profit and move onto the next scam. If this coin is legit, if atcsecure is legit, this coin will continue to rise long term. There is ZERO legitimate reason to change the rules now besides satisfying impatient pump and dumpers. Now a HARD FORK is being proposed to drop the amount of PoW blocks. Fucking HARD FORK the coin, because after a week of mining, price has only risen 25x. Change the rules which IMO should be set in stone after the genesis block, because price would be 100x by now if it wasn't for those evil multipools slowing down the pump! If this anonymous feature is legit, this coin will stand on it's own merit and price will rise. But that's why everyone prefers these super fast mining periods and uneven distribution, it is the only way to make a coin rise on nothing but wishes, dreams, and hype. DRK is producing enough new coins every day to require over 140 BTC a day of new investment to maintain the price, yet still rises. Atcsecure, at the end of the day, this is your coin still. You are doing the work. You have been around long enough to see many coins rise and fall. You know that at the end of the day, an extended and fair distribution period is beneficial for developing a deep and wide spread community. I suppose this upsets me simply because I really wanted to believe this was one new coin with a fair and honest dev who was looking into supporting their coin for the long term. It is still your coin, you launched it with a 3 month mining period for a reason. If the whiny children cannot stick it out with you and hold their coins through the 3 month mining period, they do no believe in you or the coin. The first dozen pages of this thread made me want to believe in this coin, the last dozen make me think yep, this is devolving into the same old pump and dump bullshit. |
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This board, and all alts, are hopeless. Alts, and this forum, have been overrun by blatant scam artists and spoiled impatient children.
Dev specifically stated he did NOT want this coin to be yet another pump and dump scam.
Now CINNI dev seems to be poking his head in for whatever reason, red flags go off on that one.
Now there is talk of PoW reward reduction, because god forbid anyone needs to wait 3 WHOLE MONTHS for their coin to go to the moon. 3 days is an acceptable amount of time to allow for fair and even distribution of coins these days.
If a coin cannot stand more than a week of PoW (so that it is easy for a small group of people to hoard the majority of the coins and fix the price), then it stands to reason that coin has no real value or else it wouldn't need to resort to such tactics to see price rise.
Now guess what, XC is becoming exactly what atcsecure said it wasn't supposed to be, a pump and dump scam.
Fuck XC, fuck alts and their "communities" (ie, shills waiting to pass their bag along to the next guy at a higher price), I'm out.
Hope the pump and dump goes well for y'all.
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Not a big fan of X anything for the name. Too many damn coins that start with X as it is, DRK was originally called Xcoin and was first to use X11 so it'll seem like this coin is just trying to be a DRK clone, and X anything feels like it belongs in the 90's when everything had to be eXtreme!
But, just my point of view. If dev is legit and this coin goes places, I will support it regardless of the name.
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My god, this sure didn't stay under the radar for very long. After the success of DRK, everyone is hungry to be in on the ground floor of the next anonymous coin.
Be careful buying in when the price just rose 5x over night. Dev seems to be an honest guy, but remember, we have no tangible evidence yet and even if he is honestly working on new anonymous technology, no guarantee it will work and there is still a lot of mining to go.
Yes, I am trying to slow down the party a bit so prices won't already be on the moon when (and if) the anonymous features are implemented!
I agree. Several new coins lately have made empty promises of anonymity only to pump then dump. If it was an easy thing to add they would have done so I'm sure. Very true... while not easy, it is possible and the Team has put a lot of effort to get us to this point and we are very close to a working and tested wallet... as for the P&D, check the 2 premine address's all the coins are still there.... I'm not saying this is a pump and dump. Looks like an over enthusiastic market jumping all over an unproven coin. The pump and dump guys these days tend to go for the 5-7 days mining period, quick get in, get out, dump the pre-mine, rinse and repeat. Unless, you purposely waited a few days after launch of the coin to announce the anonymous features, knowing many miners would ignore it because of the 90 day mining period, so you and your cohorts could mine an assload at low difficulty, and then pump it as high as the multipools would let you before dumping off your stash and abandoning the project. Basically using the 90 day mining period and fair launch to get more people to believe in the project, as more and more traders are becoming wise to the quick mine scam coins. I am not spreading FUD or accusing you of this, I don't believe it to be the case myself. Just saying you can never be too cynical when it comes to alts, as I am sure you are well aware! |
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My god, this sure didn't stay under the radar for very long. After the success of DRK, everyone is hungry to be in on the ground floor of the next anonymous coin.
Be careful buying in when the price just rose 5x over night. Dev seems to be an honest guy, but remember, we have no tangible evidence yet and even if he is honestly working on new anonymous technology, no guarantee it will work and there is still a lot of mining to go.
Yes, I am trying to slow down the party a bit so prices won't already be on the moon when (and if) the anonymous features are implemented!
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Ahhhhh.....duh, forget I am competing with all the PoW blocks still.
Thanks!
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glad to see your making progress on this.
Someone needs to get this forum active. I can take the reigns. I like this coin.
Some things to think about as we move forward.
- Kick Ass Graphic. There is a bounty for that.
- Wallet development. I do not think you need to add all the crap into the wallet that some are, but the one thing I would like to see is an update alert. No link should be present as that would be an easy target for a hack I would think, but more of "Your wallet is out of date, please update to version ...." I believe this could be very beneficial to all the X11 holders.
- Marketing? I see the Twitter handle has been made, but what else are we thinking?
Getting Active would be huge.
The idea that the coin can develop and then go to exchange is a great plan. It will allow for more fair distribution among the true followers and people who helped develop the community and mined from the beginning.
Also, less chance of the "OH SHIT, POS DOESN'T WORK" crash that so many have seen lately.
Keep up the good work.
I've tested POS on testnet so it does work :-), it will kick in when POW is over... yes I agree getting more active is key, I'm just holding back somewhat until a few key milestones have been met :-) just wondering when will PoW end and PoS start? I'm confused when :s Wait, I'm confused too. Is PoS currently active? It appears to be so, looks like stake blocks coming in the explorer. The PoS difficulty is adjusting when I check it in the qt as well. I thought the minimum stake time was only 8 hours though. I've got some coins that have been in my wallet since the 17th, so shocked they haven't staked yet. I suppose I could be just really unlucky. |
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Any technical details you can reveal or a white paper in the works?
Not accusing you of lying or scamming, but ya know, always good to be cautious when it comes to crypto.
Like darkcoin or zerocoin is kinda a vauge description......plus the whole "anonymity feature" thing is the hot way to attract attention and scam these days (looking at you DRM and XLB).
The launch was fair and smooth, there is no IPO. A small premine of 99000 coins (0.3%) which is certainly reasonable so you don't have a huge incentive to bullshit us, may want to add that fact to the ANN though just so no one thinks you are trying to hide it.
I am mining this, but before I were to invest further, I'd be looking for more info. Like I said, just being cautious.....
I think you bring a valid point and I would be asking the same as well.. unfortunately I'm not releasing any details until a working wallet is running on testnet.... there is a possibility that wallet is delayed due to some issues that are being reviewed currently and any information leaked/revealed could prove disastrous what I can say is this, a very basic "core" anonymous feature has been added to the wallet, however there is more coding/debugging required.. once I'm confident the "core" is solid, a beta wallet will be released and of course details of how it works Its a risk.. I've invested a lot of $$$ into making this happen but there is no guarantee I got a good feeling about this project, you seem to be legit and honest. Will make it my go to GPU mining coin for the time being, will hold for now and almost certainly invest further if progress is made. Good luck! |
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Any technical details you can reveal or a white paper in the works?
Not accusing you of lying or scamming, but ya know, always good to be cautious when it comes to crypto.
Like darkcoin or zerocoin is kinda a vauge description......plus the whole "anonymity feature" thing is the hot way to attract attention and scam these days (looking at you DRM and XLB).
The launch was fair and smooth, there is no IPO. A small premine of 99000 coins (0.3%) which is certainly reasonable so you don't have a huge incentive to bullshit us, may want to add that fact to the ANN though just so no one thinks you are trying to hide it.
I am mining this, but before I were to invest further, I'd be looking for more info. Like I said, just being cautious.....
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Either this is a final shakeout before an epic 3rd wave of pumping, or there are alot of bagholders looking to get out because man, that is some tough resistance past 16000 satoshis.
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Ignore!!! SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM!!
This coin has been massively pumped and dumped TWICE now.
Dead, resurrected by the dev who had mysteriously vanished, and then promptly mysteriously vanished again (coincidentally right after a massive price rise).
Leave this trash in the grave where it belongs.
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I withdrew my DB from bittrex a couple hours ago, and have nothing. Idk if it's an issue with the coins or DB.
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what block are you on rightnow?
under 1300, still time to get in on the 20k blocks |
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