...time to revisit this in the wake of the ECB VC paper. Let's see what JAK says now...  |
|
|
|
@imanikin: how do you even email the CEO of a greek bank? :-D Cause anyone under him will probably have never heard of bitcoin. I mean, the clerks haven't heard of SEPA so it would take at least being a CEO to know about Bitcoin. :-P
Agreed. None of those people read their own emails...  I guess, the place to start might be just to email the Bank of Greece or any other bank with a link to that ECB paper, and ask them for an official position on Bitcoin...  |
|
|
|
What I got from this paper is that bicoin is money, currency, and therefore I can setup shop and sell it without charging 23% VAT to my customers.
+1 This is one of the most important insights to get from this, and not a trivial detail! If i remember right, Mr. Bernanke denied that status even to gold in open testimony to the US Congressman Ron Paul and them... To me though, it seems impossible that the US Federal Reserve will "just let Bitcoin be", without starting the "War on Virtual Currencies" or something...  |
|
|
|
bullshit !
you remove one part, you destroy the big one!
Agreed, that IF it really happens the EU will break. The question here is what that will mean to Bitcoin and other digital money in Greece... The EU seems to remain stratified financially and economically anyway. So, its breakup might seem beneficial now to its member countries, because it's not working as originally intended anyway... Not so? |
|
|
|
BTW the TEM page is down again... Perhaps, their TEM account with their web hoster is on zero? Could it be that their faith in the Euro is renewed, and they dropped the TEM idea? Hopefully, they did NOT myBitcoin.coN their users and run off with all the IOU's...  TEM seems like an interesting saga on the inside; wish there was a TEM forum, where it was all discussed, the way the B drama is chronicled here...  |
|
|
|
Eimai ellinas. Metakomisa stin Ameriki prin apo 3ia xronia. I ellada einai mia xwra stin opia 8a eimoun xaroumenos na zisw oli mou tin zwi! Einai krima pou exei katastrafei telios I oikonomia kai oti exoume mia toso adunami kivernisi.
GTRANSLATION FOR ANYONE INTERESTED: I am greek. I moved to America 3 years ago. Greece is a country that I would happily spend my whole life! It's a shame that the economy is completely ruined and that we have such a weak government.
Thank you for the translation, Tritonio! KonstantinosM, welcome! Would you care to elaborate on how you think the economy was ruined and how you think it could have been run better? It would also be interesting to hear your view on TEM, and why Bitcoin is not making much progress in Greece, compared to much less financially troubled countries. Since this is the Greek thread here, it will be great if you answer in greek, as long as you use greek letters, so that non-greek speakers here can use a translator to figure out what you said. |
|
|
|
...(WTF does MtGox even mean).
...
MtGox means "Magic the Gathering Online Exchange". Enough said pro & con about that here previously... In terms though of being [put your adjective here], i think it's no worse than the name "eBay"... |
|
|
|
[Which positions do you mean? Also not all pirates here like the idea of bitcoins. I've seen quite a few people that are into the Pirate Party only because it's the only party they trust that it will allow them to affect how they are governed, while they themselves have socialist beliefs. I meant the politcompass charts. Perhaps, there really aren't many anarchists in Greece; they just say they are because they have the luxury to be able to do it, as a protest against state corruption, and are actually socialists. Perhaps i don't understand correctly, but being unarmed doesn't seem very conducive to being an anarchist...  As in Spain, barter systems like TEM, appear to be acceptable to the mainstream of Greece, yes?
To be honest I am not really sure how fast TEM is expanding if at all. Maybe someone else from Greece, Volos (the place where TEM started) might enlighten us. All I can say is that I live in Athens like 1/3 of the population and I haven't heard of a widely used TEM-like system here. I got a small leaflet while getting out of the Metro yesterday though. It was about some system called "κουκιά" (koukia.gr). It's sponsored by some companies but I still haven't checked it out. I wrote to the purveyors of TEM some months ago, asking for a comment here regarding B and their TEM lessons learned... As you know, they didn't respond. Perhaps, if you contact them in Greek, they will respond in Greek, and you can tell us what exactly they said, besides the literal translation... Yes, an exit would be an amazing (but painful for most) test. On the other hand the current situation is painful enough for many and there are times where I think that it would be easier for most people to live off of a black market if we parted from the eurozone. My only concern about the state getting "demolished" in one way or another is that most Greeks are practically unarmed and living in big cities. Even now the police is practically not functioning. It's not hard to imagine the people accepting another junta ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2%80%931974) just to feel safer. Yes, some kind of Franco/DeGaulle/Pinochet type government does seem to me the most likely to emerge in the log run, considering there isn't much libertarian sentiment or recent experience. Before that, might be what was in Russia in the '90's - a weak, government, with the "safety" being provided by local criminal groups. Seems wise to postpone that kind of a transition as long as possible, to give the populace time to prepare in various ways, which looking from outside seems to be what's happening... In such a collaps, it does seem advantageous to have a system like the American or even the Swiss one, where a lot of people besides the criminals and the state agents are armed rather well. Particularly in America, people continue arming, and many states continue to make it easier to own and carry personal weapons. If the local police collapsed, in any neighborhood there are probably a number of "decent" people not only with serious firearms, but recent combat experience... |
|
|
|
Кажись будущее за огромными установками ионисторов, в которых и солнце и ветер и прочее хранить можно... Пока накладно, но были уже и отличные отечественные разработки... |
|
|
|
It seems that those are not anarchist positions; they seem socialist or fascist. I expected that anarchists would be more accepting of Bitcoin, the way the Pirates are. Considering that corruption is almost impossible to separate from the state, because it has cultural ties and roots in any society, looks like very difficult times are ahead for all but the fascists in Greece. It will be sad and fascinating to watch develop. As in Spain, barter systems like TEM, appear to be acceptable to the mainstream of Greece, yes? So, i guess then that the acceptance of Bitcoin is just a matter of time, generational change, and the average comfort with complicated technology. If Greece leaves Euro, it will be an interesting test of many hypotheses... |
|
|
|
Quite a negative article I'd say. If you account his replies too, I don't think he even likes an idea of an open system, not based on well established ideas and/or government :-(
This one definitely sounds more negative to me, at least from the translation. |
|
|
|
Have you tried other terms? Try "sex" or "porn" and see how it goes. ;-)
Yes, that's a good idea; if i put Athens or feta or euro or Volos (TEM), Greece starts to appear on Google Trends. However, if i put money or Drachma or barter or their greek equivalents, Greece disappears again. |
|
|
|
I see a few more in the *.gr realm lately, but still doesn't even show up in Google Trends data for Greece. Perhaps, Greeks mostly use some other search engine?
Nope. We use almost exclusively Google like the rest of the world but there are fewer than 5mil internet users from Greece AFAIK so Google trends usually ain't that clear for us. Thanks for checking that out! Spain also doesn't show on that radar. I am starting to think there is some malfunction in the Google Trends engine; the entire population of Finland is about 5 million. Yet, they are constantly in the top 5 of Google Trends for Bitcoin... |
|
|
|
Would any of the natives please gives us their thoughts on this article: Bitcoin:monetary revolution of the digital generationI see a few more in the *.gr realm lately, but still doesn't even show up in Google Trends data for Greece. Perhaps, Greeks mostly use some other search engine? |
|
|
|
Rhetorically speaking, for example, why is there so much gun popularity in America? It does seem cultural in both cases; our people in current generations remember their or their elders' life savings being zeroed out overnight in the '90's... Russia produces a great number of high-grade computer science people, who immediately recognize Bitcoin and p2p cryptocurrency as a revolutionary idea. As you know, russians love revolutions... Plus, it's a chance in some small way "to get out from under the thumb of The Man"... It's simply cool to make "new money" yourself. I remember as a school kid in the Soviet Union, sometimes a fad would break out in school where many of us kids would take pieces of paper and turn them into our own, personal money notes by drawing intricate designs on them with magic markers, and trading them with our classmates... As far as the criminal element, the russian crackers are a competent community, and have proven that in Bitcoin, but i think that professional, organized criminals still prefer USD, metal, and other more traditional money... Perhaps, we should ask our main topic starter and information gatherer, ArsenShnurkov, to do a poll on the Bitcoin penetration among the russian criminals... |
|
|
|
I just had a thought.
The crazy thing about it is i have never heared anyone actually talking about something similar.
...
The crazy thing is actually that in a year since you've register on this forum, you haven't yet learned to search it. This amazing and original "thought" you "just had" has been discussed here before over and over to the point that it and similar recurring revelations have become just annoying noise some time ago. So many substantive discussions get lost here among an avalanche of genius revelations like yours... It is a great way to become a "Sr. Member" though.  Fortunately, we have a way to click ignore on Sr. Noisemakers like you. Happy thinking! |
|
|
|
Yeah I think my question has not been understood by everyone. I will edit it and reset it.
I can't vote either way. For me, the choice would really be: 1. go with the group playing by the original bitcoin rules 2. go with the group playing by the new bitcoin rules 3. go with some other p2p cryptocurrency clone or type 4. go with some other choice i don't have in mind yet Cryptocurrencies seem to be here to stay; it would be unwise to "quit"... |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
