they can be taken in escrow by the counterparty protocol (currently impossible with btc afaik) - so they have a purpose, but until know they are almost unused due to the mantra of the core developers that everything which can be done on the counterparty protocol with bitcoin, will be done with bitcoin.

I also hold these coins, in different percuentual amounts, so you gave me a fit occasion to discuss an issue. Besides the quality of these projects, which varies dramatically, and Ristos, in my opion too strict definition of pre mine scam, one has to wonder why these protocols should network in the way bitcoin probably does. Peter R wrote a post here, which almost completely changed my perception regarding altcoins. If you break down what your INVESTMENT in bitcoin is than it is nothing but the investment in a  boardless worldwide decentralized ledger, which has a massive first mover advantage and additionally the possibility to absorb almost (this is the stuff where it gets interesting) all functions of the existing altcoins - cryptonotes might or might not be an exception (I think they are because of an educated guess regarding the regulation of bitcoin).

That said you can say all altcoins, except probably xmr and maybe for a limited amount of time xcp are not worth investing - I think that is true, but the speculation around altcoins fullfills a purpose. It is basically a reflection of the current weaknesses in the btc protocol, or better said it is a reflection of what the cryptospace thinks are the current weaknesses in the btc protocol. so if you want to make money just join the keynesian beauty contest, but get your objectives clear beforehand.

I am quite happy that you chose nxt in your holds - nxt is innovative, it has quite an army of developers but it has one thing which differs from the other two and that is the marketcap. In my opinion a further increase  in market cap can only be given by network effects, it has to leave altcoin space and fullfill a real life purpose (this starts around 0,5% to 1% of bitcoins market cap, different opinions?) - I am really indifferent if this happens or if this doesn't happen.

maybe we can break it down to a rule of thumb which says up to a market cap of 0,5-1% of btc altcoins can simply be valued by their innovative potential (innovators are getting paid much more than followers - see drk to all the followers), from 0,5% to 1% network effects have to start to legitimize a further increase in value.  

maybe I am dead wrong here but I think the current price drop is not given by the inflation and the refinancing of miners but by the market getting rid of short term speculators (classical pump and dumpers). I simply follow the assumption that in general people mining this particular altcoin are better informed (higher and deeper technical knowledge) than the usual daytrader which are trying to ride the waves and looking for short term profits.


I followed monero from the very beginning (bought some preexchange over the counter) - we had this situation probably two times before - the first short term speculation free equilibrium can probably be found on cryptonote.exchange in the range of around 0.001, the second one maybe in the range of 0.002 after the initial hype ended when it hit poloniex, I think we have a third one here at around 0.004 after the end of the hype around mintpal.

for me it is no surprise that miners are mining this coin at a loss - I remember one coin this year where this was also the case.  

never thought we see that prices again - anyway best strategy is to buy little amounts every day in this market situation

can someone explain why there is so much uncertainty regarding the cryptonotes (bbr,xmr)? not trolling just asking

the only thing I am really afraid of is that there comes something new which is much better which hinders network effects of cryptonotes/ring signatures

there will be one dominant ledger for normal transaction (very likely bitcoin)

there will be one dominant ledger for anonymous transaction (a cryptonote/ringsignature or a zerocash project)

the rest will at best find a niche or simply die

how long do the chooo-chooo fishes usually need to unload their altcoins when it hits a new exchange?


was wondering if it is a good time for buying back some xmr, or do they need 2-3 days?


i was buying at 0.0004, 0.001 - selling parts at 0.005 buying back in the 0.0018-0.003 range - sold a part in the 0.009-0.0099 range. not entirely sure if we see 0.005 again

I am not one of this moon guys, I like steady growth -  inflation will stop this unorganic price increases we have seen with darkcoin

that said I feel very confortable holding my xmr, the feature of the impossibility of a blockchain analysis has some very interesting implications, especially longterm

am I the only who thinks that if they do not fuck it up it is obvious where they are going?

can you explain that?

except the decentralisation of mixing through masternodes it is basically the same isn't it?

I like your mantra to do everything which can be done in bitcoin with bitcoin - but until now your conclusion given above does not work. I think there is a consensus that the counterparty protocol is helpful and has a lot of value, but you'll not find within the altcoin space a project where the disparity between the protocols "value" differs so much from the coins value.

I know that you guys are doing a wonderful job and I have absolutely no doubt that it will work in the end, but to give the project value you need to find a good solution for the currency.

I hope this will not end in an uberpump - best thing on mintpal is additional liquidity + wider user base. monero is full of smart money and some huge whales who have long term interest in this project, as well as the high inflation rate - I think it will steadily rise and we do not see the price go full retard as it was the case with darkcoin.

your last part is probably true in the long run.

I am a burner of btc for xcp so I basically followed the project over since its birth - great progress, however I still think xcp is underused and does not catch up with the great development of the protocol.

non-technical question/idea for the use of xcp regarding fundraising to the developers:

I think we all agree that the liquidity of the protocols currency is not enough to use it for fundraising. we should have all learned from the mastercoin/maidsafe disaster of pegging a currency for fundraising and avoid it. the second way of using two currencies for fundraising is given by protoshares/bitcoin in the btsx snapshot: it was much better to use the dutch auction (?) than the pegging by mastercoin, but still has its downsights.

When I read Swarms announcement yesterday I had a third idea of using a protocols native currency: I like Swarms general idea, but think it is half-baked at this time. So I did not decide to send large sums of btc. However I had the idea that this would be a great point of using xcps unique feature, that it can be taken in escrow on the blockchain: Imagine I could send an amount of xcp and decide for a finite time if I like the route the project is going and decide after the end of the timeframe if I would stick to the project. Is something like that possible?

I think it is the least artificial use of a protocols currency for fundraising, well basically it is the currencys practical use case.

From an economics perspective this has a lot of advantages, it avoids scams for the investors, it adds a use case for fundrasing. from the fundraisers perspective it adds some uncertainty regarding the amount of money, but on the other hand it adds an incentive to work properly and stay commited to the idea - I think this is in great coherence to the counterparty protocol. the second point from the fundraisers perspective is the liquidity of xcp - this has to be given by ongoing fundraising as well as different time spans of investors on chain escrows.

I think it would add on the least artifical way liquidity to the native currency
Comments?

still do not entirely understand why crowdfunding for a coin is neccessary... this is basically the same as protoshares?

I'll not call this a scam because I have a high level of trust in the counterparty core developers, but I do not get the business idea here. cannot find a whitepaper

well we are all bagholders aren't we? - I bought BBR as well as XMR preexchange and bought both projects when they went on exchange. BBR has a smaller community, but a brilliant developer, if there is place for a second ring signature project it will probably be BBR. it is not exactly a clone.

I think parity is reasonable - it lets BBR have around 1/4 of xmr market cap.

great to see the gui in beta testing

some time ago NXT was working on atomic-cross chain trading - is this project still alive?

the issue is long solved and was much smaller than expected.

I think the biggest advantage of counterparty protocol is that you do not need to go the way btc-> nxt -> asset. you can simply buy the asset with btc.

the "currency" (xcp) of the protocol has a completely different function. it can be taken in escrow on the blockchain (until now impossible with bitcoin). It will be probably in short term be used for betting, mid-term for CFDs and long term as insurance.

BTW I used NXT AE and I was quite impressed by the easy to use functionality as well as the speed. kudos. 

this project also seems as well as monero to be rock solid - never understood the ultra cheap price.

I think the beauty of the ring signature implementations is that they can be mined for cheap marginal costs - some miners have different objectives than holding, so the coins are cheap.

the most important thing on mintpal is that the user base gets much wider when we get it there - I think we will not see the sickest increase in price due to some very smart guys here who also have a long term interest in the currency.

but additional liquidity and a wider userbase is definetely helpful.

poloniex was fine for the beginning but this currency is worth spreading.