What is anyone actually waiting for exactly?  Seems like we should have had both the info from the lawyer by now, and LRM should have the hardware by now.  So what is to wait for?  Seems like if you're going to do the lawyer throw-down, now is the time.

And pays all its investors in Bitcoins as well.  So to convert out of Bitcoin means that when he collects the profits he has to convert back into Bitcoin.  That's stupid.  Better to keep a supply of coins to pay shareholders in Bitcoins and then save the Fiat from the property income. 

As Branny has stated as well, there are situations where he'd like to accept Bitcoin for rent.  Turning this into a Bitcoin business.  Currently it obviously is not.  But it's not just that he got a bunch of Bitcoins and turned them into cash.  He has to move the coins back and forth all the time to pay Dividends.  Ultimately if he gets people who want to do business in Bitcoin it could save him money on banking fees.

I agree that speculating with Bitcoins is not a way to run a business.  That said, cashing them out now when they are near or at the bottom is dumb unless you really think they are going to go lower.  We're in a crash situation today due to the PBOC, so it'd just be stupid to cash out now in my opinion.  It would be a panic move.  Better to wait for the dust to settle and try and cash out when it's worth more than it is now.  If he even wants to do that. 

I get what you're saying, but then why even sell shares for Bitcoins?  You either are in a Bitcoin related business or you aren't.  If you aren't, you shouldn't be dealing in the coins period.  As the entire thing is up and down even in the process of buying and selling shares.  Bitcoin is part of the equation of this business until Branny decides to take it out of Bitcoin and put it into Fiat only.  Personally, I like backing a company that is based in Bitcoin.  I believe that the value of Bitcoin will continue to rise.  We're dealing with some China nonsense and a lot of speculation that will subside after this new fall over the PBOC.  You just need one country to latch onto Bitcoin and we'll be up into the thousands per coin.  This things can happen fast.  Don't get hung up on the bad news.  If you don't want to invest in Bitcoin businesses, there's a whole world of things you can invest in with Fiat.

FUD = Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt

You obviously are mistaking it for "False".

One has to figure that they have to have the Bitcoin available to send it to you.  The point I was trying to make is that it's easier for them to move around Bitcoins than it is FIAT.  Whether they have Bitcoins on hand or don't want to give them to you or whatever, I dunno.  I was just saying it's easier for them to deal with Bitcoin than Fiat on refunds.  But I suppose it doesn't matter if they aren't refunding with either anyway.

Or you could just buy Bitcoins and not mine and make that same amount of money when the price of the coins increase.

You're not understanding the concept...

Let's say PBMining sells you a mining contract for $100.

Sunday comes, you earn $10
Another Sunday comes, you earn $10
Another Sunday comes, you earn $10

You say, "This is great, I'm going to put more money in and buy another contract!"

You pay another $100 for a new contract.

Sunday comes, you earn $20
Another Sunday comes, you earn $20


...And then in theory, if it's scam (Which I'm not saying it is) PBMining then vanishes.

So you got payouts that equaled = $70
But you paid $200 for contracts.

So you lost $130.


That's the fear of a Ponzi scam, they get a bunch of money in, until the Ponzi isn't sustainable to pay everyone, and so they stop paying out, take the rest of the money and split.

And this is why it's good to see hardware and have assurances that they actually are in business, exist, and have the resources they say they do, etc.

Because sending a bank wire is a huge pain in the ass vs sending Bitcoins is probably the reason they are refunding in Bitcoins.  There are also fees involved in sending wires.  The one thing that makes sense is to send a refund in Bitcoin.  Not sure what the big deal is.  They may have used the money they originally had.  They do mine there with their existing hardware from what I understand, so they probably have some coins in a pool that they can distribute but it's probably not a lot.  And then they have people still paying for new orders from time to time.

Not that much of a mystery really.  Anyway, I could care less, I just want to see my miner ship by May 1st.  If it does not, I want to see added compensation or I'll request a refund as well. 

Risk...

  Shareholders make up 30% of the company and after the first year get 30% of the net profits.  That's not a huge return being that the company is very small right now.  It's a long play, and the people who invest in Branny now may make out well in the future.  (Assuming Branny continues to do his best for the company and the shareholders and not turn into someone who abandons the project like so many others have.)  Though one has to worry about legal encroachment with these things.  (With everything Bitcoin related)

Also, I don't think Branny keeping funds in Bitcoin is a mistake.  Sure, the price is collapsing but if it rose the argument would go the other way.  Why weren't the funds kept in Bitcoin?  Realistically, we should be behind Bitcoin and be assured that its value will continue to rise.  Its value will rise again, it's just a matter of getting over this China Bank policy rumor fiasco.  Too many speculators laying in wait for the bubble to grow again, but not wanting to be in the crash.  I think we're near a bottom unless the PBOC announces stricter controls.  Then the market will react poorly, however it won't be able to get much lower and then start a gradual rise.  The rest of the world continues using it, demand will continue to grow.

I invest in RENT and continue to buy shares.  I intend to hold them as long as possible. 

Mine are hosted and continue to operate just fine.

If we had our own chip, Ken would be trying to sell it to people and would post specs.  That would be because it would generate more revenue and would raise the stock price, assuming it was competitive.  It's obvious to me that it's not our own chip.  I've followed enough of these outfits online and there is no question in my mind that AMC doesn't have one.  What I am interested in is whether we even have our own boards, or if we're really just taking some packaged boards from Hash-Fast and reselling them.

Let's say we were doing that, that's not even a terrible thing if they worked ok and we got them at a good price.  All of which is unknown.  I don't suspect Ken to come on here and say he paid $1,000 for each and is selling them for $3,000 because then people would not want to buy them.  However, right now the cost of the boards is too high due to the fact that Bitcoin is hovering around $450.  If Bitcoin jumped up to $1,000 it might make sense to sell at $3,000.  It doesn't right now.  So he should probably just mine with these boards and hope the market jumps back.  As every ten days or so their ability to produce is going to shrink by around 20%.

Ken is supposed to produce the financials at the end of the month.  I don't think this is likely but I'm waiting to see if he does.  I think if he does not or does not do it adequately that shareholders should send a third party to investigate the books and the entire outfit and report back to the shareholders as to the status of the company.

I think most of the shareholder fud as ZZ likes to call it, would go away if those of us that are owners of shares could cash them out.  Having any good news is only good if you can trade shares.  I don't know why Ken seriously just doesn't do this.  So what if the share price tanks.  Once those shares are gone and replaced by people who believe in all of this, the price will bounce back and you'll have more money and less fud.  Seems simple enough.  Right now he's just creating a lot of ill will by keeping people's shares.

Photos would help, but they could be Cedar Tech style photos of shadows and light.   Then you just get people analyzing them and drawing arrows on them, etc.  Why statements can't just be made that explain what is going on leads me and others to believe that the reason for holding back such information is because you are trying to hide something.  I'd prefer to just have my shares and get out.  Frankly, I am concerned that if we did make some deal with Hashfast and we're reselling their stuff when the courts have ordered them not to, that being a partial owner of this operation I could be held to some level of liability (Or liability towards any of the questionable actions going on here.) so I make just forfeit my shares at this point.  Before this spins even more out of control.

Why do you need the money?

Ken says he can't do anything until his lawyer says it's ok.  Supposedly.
Ken says he wants to wait for Colored Coins.  Though he's bent slightly to the idea of moving to ct.

But look, before any of that happens, dude needs to first confirm the shares and create a proper list.  At the moment he can't put anything on any trading platform because he would need to have the tender list.  He's said people should take pictures of their transfer on Bitfunder to provide some level of proof.  So you might do that. 

If you believe that it'll ever actually happen anyway.

Apparently some lone individual bought 95 of them.  The one guy just posted that he canceled his three.  Ken took his 100 that was for mining and put them for sale.  So we have 103.  And probably two of you bought a board, or one of you bought two.  I feel bad for that guy who bought 95 boards.

So what we're seeing here is that we don't even have custom boards?  He bought 10 packs of boards that ran 1,800 a piece and is trying to sell them for $3,000?  Seriously?  No wonder he doesn't take a picture.

I'm starting to think his new facility is a house we bought him.  3,700 square feet is an average house with a basement.

I swear, every time I think it might be turning a corner it actually just gets worse.

That would work in your favor if Bitcoin was worth more now because you'd spend less of them on the miner.  The miner will never earn more Bitcoin then you paid for it.  You would earn more profit by holding your Bitcoin than you would buying the miner.

It makes no sense to buy the miner instead of holding coins.  None.  It would only make sense if you bought it for less Bitcoins then it earns.  Currently it does not do that.

If I earn 5 Bitcoin or kept 6.  Regardless of whether the price of Bitcoin is $10,000 or $600.  Keeping the 6 is always worth more than the 5.

ZZ if you buy a miner for $3000 at 600gh it will not earn back the Bitcoins you spent on it by the time it is too expensive to operate.  And that's being generous at a 40% difficulty increase per month.  (Not per week... Per month)  Which won't happen. 

So the smart miner would not buy it at all and just keep their Bitcoins because they'd be worth more if the value of Bitcoin went up.

There is no way to earn with these unless you don't pay for power, and even then you're waiting a really long time.

But I completely agree with you that there are insane people who just buy any flashy thing without thinking about it.  I hope whoever those people are actually get their miner.  Did anyone here buy one?

Look, every single other investment that it is legit has put up photos of their completed products.  Why do I have to care about Ken's personality in this situation?  I shouldn't.  He's selling a product that was paid for by my and other people's money.  Can I see the product that he's selling?  I don't want to see that mock-up photoshop thing, I want to see the actual in stock item.  I wouldn't mind seeing the "facility" that we paid for as well.  That's part of what being a shareholder is about.  You own a piece of the company.  You have some rights to see financial books, to walk around, to talk to people, to see what is going on.  If Ken would not like me to be a shareholder anymore, he could give me access to my shares and I'd quickly sell them and remove myself form this forum thread and he can have the pleasure of working with those of you that are in this for the long haul.  Unfortunately my shares are held hostage and I can't exit other than just accepting a total loss, which I refuse to do.  I put my money into this and so far I've seen no evidence of anything happening.  I'm not wrong in wanting proof.  If his personality somehow forbids that, then he's the one at fault.

As everyone here has said, including ZZ, it takes the guy 5 seconds to photograph what is there and post it.  If I see proof of the hardware, I'll be quiet and wait around for access to my shares like everyone else, minus some discussion on when we'll actually ever get access to them.  I think this is completely fair.

He hasn't logged in since March 8th.  Honestly, I think this is a scam.  While he has checked in previously, the fact that so much time has passed and he hasn't posted up the list just makes me think that even if he IS legit, he's not going to distribute people's funds reliably if he can't put the list together in months of time.  Plus he never posts in here even after people have PM'd him and brought things to his attention.

Just another waste of Bitcoin for me...

$3,000 for maybe 512gh?  If that -20% is real, could be 410gh for three grand.  Who the hell would buy this?  It had to be some of you in here.  When you get your board take a picture of it and let us see it.  

I still don't believe any of this is real.

Hey Ken, take a picture of your 100th of miners that you have on hand so we can see them.

Considering all the company's that go silent forever when things are in production, I want to thank Black Arrow for posting these updates.  Maybe the miner won't cash out and PG will come in here and post some stuff about Matt being a slave trader from Mongolia, but regardless... I appreciate the news about what is happening.