What, a tool to make transactions safer for everyone is not man enough for you?
You also drive without belts, right?
And walk in the sun witout sunscreen etc?
Do you also live in a tent on you lawn and cook your food over a camp fire?
And why would the community care about a guy in a tent on his lawn anyway?
They don't have to. They've got nice comfy third party signed transactions.
No need to get mad. It was just a friendly advice. As I said before, volunatary safety features are good. What I meant by manning up is not crying like a little bitch when you lose money because of your naivety. (case in point : iCEBREAKER took it like a man). Also I meant that people shouldn't rely on third parties to take responsibility for them. You are not children anymore. There is no big goverment to protect your ass. I don't do any of the things you mentioned. |
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... and a fucking funeral service. Beat that  I'd love to buy my coffin with bitcoins. |
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Very inspirational. Thank you.
I have to add, we all must work to keep Bitcoin going.
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Make a porn rpg.
Sex sells.
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Certain kinds, for example the kind of exchange "hacking" we've seen on a regular basis couldn't been pulled off if an exchange wouldn't have direct access to the funds.
I'm not saying that this is the silver bullet, and you are right people need to act responsibly. But it's not the only thing that has to be done either.
How I see it people run around spreading the word that bitcoin it "perfect", part out of greed to give it more userbase part out of fear that innovation could harm their speculative investment if it goes wrong. I am not saying we should hard-fork the existing mechanisms but provide improvements where it is necessary. In this example the possibility to do third-party signed transaction wouldn't hurt anybody, everybody who doesn't like the feature or has no use for it can use regular transactions all they want.
Again: The main thing hindering innovation is this irrational fear that any improvement might backfire and make the investment worthless. This has no basis in reality, nobody will think of bitcoin to be worth less because of some added feature... to the contrary it will probably boost it.
If it is voluntary, I have no problem with it. I think majority of bitcoin users feel the same way. |
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You think that's bad? The bad thing is: Once you come forward and suggest implementing a solution, (the third-party signed transactions for example) someone comes along screaming: "Reversible transactions!!111 Do not want! BTC is no credit card!!" People need to get the head out of their asses and look at theses issues from a systematic perspective instead of sticking to some fundamentalistic agenda.  I don't understand how third-party signed transactions protect people from scams. In fact, I can't imagine other effective protection from scams than personal responsibility. People on this forum have been searching for other solutions, mainly moving their responsibility on others. You wanted a free, decentralized, deregulated currency. Well, this requires a great deal of responsibility. If you can't bear it, you best stop using Bitcoin. And even though I don't to make ad hominem attacks and feed silly nationalism, I have to say that this seems to me as mainly a problem of "westerners". You guys should man up a little bit. |
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I agree with mobodick and AbelsFire that Bitcoin needs more real commerce and less propaganda and bullshit. People seem to forget that price and value is not the same thing. If the price skyrockets solely due to media attention and "preaching" it will do no good. Healthy economy must stand on real values.
It worries me that Bitcoin business environment consist almost exclusively of scams, illegal shit (SR has a HUGE market share) and gambling. I'm fine with gambling (although it creates some bad publicity), because it is a very sustainable industry. But illegal things are highly unstable and scams are downright harmful.
I'd like to start something legit, but I have yet to find out what kind of service the community really needs. Preferably nothing illegal.
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Then, to really undermine your situation, you reneg on the "bet" and act like a five year old after the fact. This is 4chan shit (no, no, I shouldn't be that low, this is /b!.).
As a /b/tard, I beg to differ. This wasn't even a remotely good troll. I'd give it a 3/10, just because it caused huge amounts of butthurt. Without the butthurt, it wouldn't even be rated. Also, it's not /b! or /b. It's /b/ |
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This really is a silly idea. For plenty of reasons.
Do you know Eric Cantona? The soccer player?
He made exactly the same call in december 2010. When you start to have the same political ideas as a soccer player, it can't be good, can it?
hahaha.. you made me laugh. Thank you. However, I don't think it is a silly idea. Bitcoin is still small enough to make this work. Of course Cantona was unsuccessful on the global scale. Everyone knew it was nearly impossible and therefore everyone acted accordingly. No one participated. Why do people always refuse to do anything unless millions of people do as them? This is just a silly group behavior.
Because we need to coordinate such efforts to make them work. Sometimes individual behavior is good. Sometimes you have to cooperate in groups to succeed. There's nothing wrong about group effort. It is how civilization was born. |
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October 25th
It would be interesting to hear why October 25th. Or any other date. I suggest to do it in about two weeks. It's long enough to get all participants ready (for example right now I couldn't do it) but not long enough for everyone to forget/lose interest or for exchanges to make some nasty counter-moves. |
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There is most certainly a number of people who won't adhere to this initiative, and the result is that not all of the BTC is withdrawn from all the services. So, how can we be sure the services which claim not to keep a fractional reserve aren't, actually, doing the opposite?
You don't need everyone to participate. Actually, you don't even need the majority to accomplish it. Institutions that use fractional reserve typically have only a small fraction of what they are supposed to have at disposal. Hence the term fractional reserve. |
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Moving your responsibility on shoulders of some wise men appointed to take the blame is not a good solution. Responsiblity is part of freedom. If you truly want freedom, you must take it with all consequences. I think American and European history proves me right.
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So many people seem absolutely convinced that MNW has gone over to the Dark Side. However, I saw his "facebook" youtube video, and it reinforces my conviction that he was just doing an epic prank for the betterment of the community. Even if he was being immature, reckless, thoughtless, or whatever, my gut tells me he's got a good soul - hence the net benefit that this debacle will result in. Besides, if you've got a community with a gambling addiction as bad as this one has, mere 'talking' won't help.
No. He made a Win-No Loss bet and didn't win. But you make a good point about gambling addiction. It really seems that Bitcoiners are heavy gamblers. |
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I suggest to set a date for "Anti Fractional Reserve Day". During this day everyone should withdraw his/her coins from exchanges, webwallets and similar services to a personal wallet. And deposit the coins back in 24 hours. This "trick" will definitely help us to keep Bitcoin economy "healthy".
There are really only two reasons to do this: 1) You want to make sure that businesses that promise not to keep fractional reserves are keeping their promises. 2) You want to pressure businesses that don't make such promises into not keeping fractional reserves even where that makes business sense. I fully support 1. But 2 just seems like a way to raise everyone's costs. Although I guess I could see it in the case of businesses like Mt.Gox that are very vague about whether they are or aren't keeping a fractional reserve. As a way to force transparency, that might be a good thing. What date do you suggest? |
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Anti Fractional Reserve Day I decided to make a a thread about Come-from-Beyond's wonderful idea so everyone can see it, discuss it and suggest the date. I suggest to set a date for "Anti Fractional Reserve Day". During this day everyone should withdraw his/her coins from exchanges, webwallets and similar services to a personal wallet. And deposit the coins back in 24 hours. This "trick" will definitely help us to keep Bitcoin economy "healthy".
Anti Fractional Reserve Day |
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Although the idea could sound good we need to think about possible outcomes. I don't wish "Anti Fractional Reserve Day" to become "Bitcoin Economy Collapse Day".
With every collapse, Bitcoin grows stronger. Not to mention that every collapse is a wonderful investment opportunity. |
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While fractional reserve may eventually happen in the Bitcoin economy.
It's already here. I suggest to set a date for "Anti Fractional Reserve Day". During this day everyone should withdraw his/her coins from exchanges, webwallets and similar services to a personal wallet. And deposit the coins back in 24 hours. This "trick" will definitely help us to keep Bitcoin economy "healthy". I love this idea. We should also include fiat deposits in bitcoin exchanges. Let's do it on 30th September! |
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This is the way to go on an individual basis. However, it's best not to be "contaminated" to the point you think scamming is okay or taking gullible people for a ride is justifiable or even deserved. That's when you get a perma-3rd world society.
I advocate the Japanese school of law enforcement. Expect the worst, do your best and be heavy handed with the rotten apples. It just f****** works.
This community is a scammer/sociopath magnet, and culture must be shaped accordingly to ameliorate this very obvious reality. It won't happen spontaneously, we must react strongly to scams and frauds.
I don't think scamming is ok. However, scamming is not a matter of my opinion nor a matter of morality. People just get scammed. Scammers don't contemplate whether their victims deserve to lose their money or not. It is inevitable that gullible people get scammed. Now, Bitcoin is in its infancy. It is very vulnerable in various ways. Personally, I don't care about victims of scams. But the market gets fucked in the ass everytime you fall for someone like Pirate. If we want Bitcoin to survive, the members of its core community MUST change their approach. Otherwise this wonderful project is doomed. |
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Jesus Christ...
The bitcoin community is gullible as fuck. Therefore, it attracts scammers.
That's how simple it is. No pathetic posts about feeling betrayed, no multiple threads about the same topic (being butthurt about getting scammed), no tears and drama is needed.
The only thing you all need, is to learn how to use your brains. Do not trust anyone, especially not just because you had sweet chit-chat over Skype and PM's. Your parents obviously failed to raise you, because even kindergarten kids know they're not supposed to trust strangers.
i dont know where you come from but i am proud to be raised in a way to first assume other people are honest. i should not think this about random internet people though; lessen learned. I come from eastern Europe. I consider everyone a dishonest and dangerous person, until proven otherwise. If it wasn't for this mindset, I probably wouldn't be alive to write this post. It's ok if you're proud of being naive. But bear in mind that Bitcoin (and the Internet in general) more resembles eastern Europe than the USA (or whatever liberal, over-protective country you come from). |
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