If you were thinking of sending me some, send them to Cinnamon instead.

Cinnamon, did you use RoadTrain's repo?

Also, as its not on any exchanges, please please lets use GRP (as I keep hinting by typing GRouPcoin), not GRC.

GRC for GRouPcoin is about as pathetic as BQC for BBQcoin. GRP and BBQ are instantly understandable shorthand to English speakers, why create an artificially less obvious code?

GRouPcoin has been GRP since its original creation. And is ancient so has first claim to the symbol.

BBQcoin seems like it probably was thinking BBQ too, else why not call is Barbecuecoin instead of BBQcoin?

The fact that some exchange or other butchered BBQcoin to BQC seems though to indicate that even if GRouPcoin had been named GRPcoin someone would still have butchered it...

-MarkM-

Awesome, it is building now. Thanks. CLI is all I use so is fine for me.

-MarkM-

Chickens and eggs. No miners = no traction.

Especially around here, where every time a coin comes out that does not involve mining its announce thread starts accumulating compliants and scam-accusations!

Admittedly exchanges also give traction, but there are advantages to not being on exchanges, because regulators are more likely to question a game-currency's status as being "just a token used in games" if exchanges for it officially exist. (Notice that until quite recently most/all large MMORPGs forbade buying/selling game stuff for real money? Until a year or few ago some big name one put a real money market right into its game, likely after racking up oodles of expensive legal fees...)

Player groups such as guilds, parties, associations and such like GRouPcoin not just because it has GRouP in the name but also because it does not "officially" have exchanges to/from "real money"...

CoiLedCoin thus far has that same "niche advantage".

Hunter coin's merged mining in SHA256 never worked for me so I gave up trying to include it in my merge.

-MarkM-

Great. And I get that list of public keys where? My plan had been to use the PTS program to find out what public and/or private keys I have on that blockchain...

-MarkM-

No website-type exchange ever had it, I am pretty sure.

All we had was my Open Transactions server, which is still not a lot of use to normal folks since "Open Transactions for Grandmas" project seems to have gone on back burner...

...And a change in the internals of Open Transactions also has caused all contracts and nyms and accounts to go obsolete, so currently only ancient clients can even access the stuff.

-MarkM-

I noticed today, in setting up all my coins at home (having been forced to shut down my p2pool I had for merged mining out on the net) that my groupcoind uses tons of RAM, even more than the "dirty fix applied" geistgeldd I am using.

SO I googled and came across https://github.com/RoadTrain/groupcoin

I just started it now. Unlike what I had been using (off my sourceforge download site, not github), this one uses leveldb. Its binary, stripped, is half the size of the stripped binary of what I had been using, though that might be mostly to do with what libs are static/dynamic.

It uses tiny RAM, like other fully fixed (as opposed to dirty-fixed) merged mined coins.

I have written to mmpool admin to check what he is using, as I cannot test merged mining currently being still in midst of setting up everything at home.

-MarkM-

Bitshares PTS are a distinct separate asset from Bitshares; currently I see them at number 77 on coinmarketcap site.

My intention was to check how many of them I have between various wallets and from that decide whether to run around to all the derivative blockchains plugging in my keys or just continue to sit on the PTS for now.

Also, what do you use to export the PTS private keys preparatory to importing them?

Or do you not need bare keys to import, being able for example to just point at a wallet directly?

(In the past I have ended up using some script written by Gavin or someone to extract lists of private keys from wallets and maybe even also to construct a new wallet for the destination coin if the desintation coin didn't have an ability to process the lists of keys produced by the key-dumping script; but I figured once I have built PTS I will be able to look at its rpc calls and see if they will let me generate a list of privkeys...)

Also I want to know the various balances in the various wallets first before deciding which to import into which wallets of derivative DACs, like whether to combine them all or keep them separated etc.

First off of course if I find I hardly have any PTS at all then I likely will not bother moving ahead with all the importing stuff until after i have looked into other options such as direct purchase of whatever other DACs I might be interested in.

-MarkM-

Googling the string

Unable to checkout '028f9409247be6d3d09a157e8eb347a173afc599' in submodule path 'libraries/leveldb'

found more relevant results on github than in the forum, in the forum they only seemed to be talking about the bug as it affected a DAC building / playing thing, not how it affects the PTS repo.

The github bug reports seem to indicate trhat it is thought to have been fixed in bitshares itself

( https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/1489 and https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/1490 )

but there does not seem to be anything about it having been similarly fixed in the bitshares-PTS repo...

The fix seems to have been only 27 days ago so maybe who-ever does them is still in the process of running around putting it into all the affected repos or something like that.

Too bad as the whole bitshares thing is starting to sound like it might be interesting once it is actually buildable.

But since the PTS is kind of the foundation of the whole thing being repelled right at that initial start into the whole thing is kind of discouraging.

-MarkM-

Ok fine so no one needs gems in 2 to 3 years. Meanwhile, we have gems.

Earning a few coins appeals to some people. A bitcoin wallet that comes with a few shitcoins you can sell for bitcoins is maybe a little more complicated than getting bitcoins directly but hey for some folks a free satoshi is a free satoshi and something they find fun to get.

Hadn't gotten them to install any other bitcoin wallet because of the predictable "why I want a bitcoin wallet when I dont have and am not about to get any bitcoins?" reaction.

Also, pay to use is for advertisers. Do consumers really prefer free-to-spam models over pay-to-spam models? News to me if so...

-MarkM-

This and GeistGeld were why I had to run my own merged mining: because mmpool did not include them in its merge.

I used p2pool so as not to be solo-mining the bitcoins, but once I got KnC Neptunes I ran into problems, I could not get anywhere near the full hashing power out of my Neptune on my p2pool.

So I ended up using mpool, but still had half a terahash or so of hashing pointed at my p2pool in order to continue to get some coiledcoins and geistgeld.

Unfortunately I had not gotten around to trying your fixed coiledcoin until just now, when I had been forced to take down my p2pool because of a mandatory upgrade that refuses to work with ancient bitcoind. My whole merged mining setup was on third party servers that were still stuck on Fedora 17, long story. Could not build new bitcoind so cannot use new p2pool so end of merged mining for me for now.

It would be really nice if you could add coiledcoin to mmpool's merge. Even nicer would be if you could also add geistgeld. Heck even if you cannot have it do geistgeld full speed it'd be something, and maybe it would be possible to work out what really is the limit on block speed, since geistgeld was intended as an experiment to see how fast blocks could, in practice, be run. If geistgeld really is too fast then maybe what speed to slow it down to to make it practical could be worked out and it could be updated to that speed?

I am running your fixed coiledcoin right now on Ubuntu systems. I can build/run bitcoind on those so once I get all set up with all the coin daemons I will be able to run p2pool so that I can at least experiment with low hashing power. No one seems to know why my Neptune could not run at full speed pointed at p2pool but I can point some other hashers at it as I have been doing ever since my Neptunes started arriving.

-MarkM-

A lot of folk jump on things that are already rising in price, thus buying them higher, especially when you also consider they often lack the patience and/or the faith in exchanges to leave funds on an exchange in the form of a buy offer waiting to be taken up on the offer, so they buy directly from the sell side instead of placing orders on the buy side.

Also many of them have regular jobs, so maybe cannot respond instantly. A lot might snatch a glimpse at the internet during the workday, tell themselves damn gotta react to that real soon, maybe also already have plans that night so might not even get to it that day, so there can be quite a bit of delay in reacting even without taking into account most exchanges want some number of blocks/confirmations before crediting deposits.

Thus often when something goes up folk not only don't say to themselves damn should have bought that when it was low, oh well maybe I will buy it when it goes down again, but instead jump into the bubble; then it takes them as much as a day or few to actually get liquid on an exchange ready to buy; by which time profit-taking is starting by folks faster than them; so often after all that hassle of digging up old daemon and waiting for blockchain to update so as to send buying-coin to an exchange to buy with and waiting for the deposit of the coin you're buying with to confirm and be credited to your account, the price is already rapidly falling.

Remember that folks holding the coin are in same delay boat, they see their coin is going up so want to dump it but, like the buyers, they take time to get them to the exchange, because they mostly have not left them on the exchange on the sell side all along ready to automagically profit from the skyrocket. So often by the time they get them ready to dump they missed the peak.

Then instead of saying to themselves oh well that took too long maybe I should always have funds on the exchange to buy with (and buy stuff that hasn't started to skyrocket yet, placing sell orders on sell side to be first in line to profit when the skyrocket happens) they go like damn well that was too much hassle to undo, heck with taking my funds back off the exchange and heck with leaving them there, I'll just dump them while I am here since I do not want to go again through the hassle of digging up my wallet catching up the blockchain and sending to exchange.

I saw that a lot with DeVCoin, it would go up but dumpers would take so long to get coins to an exchange to dump them that prices would not be good by the time they dumped, but they would dump anyway after going to all the trouble of actually getting the coins to an exchange.

EDIT: Part of the problem might be trading strategies one finds in books, things like moving averages and such, which wait for the sign of the slope of the curve to change (upward to downward or vice-versa) before acting instead of predicting inadvance what ought someday to rise and buying it ahead of time to be already in position when it happens. Problem being such strategies assume you are ready at the instant to react, maybe with automatic triggers. When it might take you a day or few to react, you become a sucker reacting not a canny trader getting in as near the peak or trough as technical trading (math such as slope detection) can figure out what to get in or out of. If it will take hours or days to react, don't bother, you will tend toward too late. By the time a balloon starts to rise it is damn near too late unles you are awake and ready and liquid; the thing to do is buy stuff that is as close to rock bottom as you can find, but that you have good reason to elieve will take off again some day, and get your sell orders already in place on the sell order-books long before it actually does start to take off.

(TL;DR buy things that are dropping, sell things that are rising, not the other way around; and place your orders on the buy or sell side instead of buying directly from the sell side or selling directly to the buy side. Sure the exchange could run off with all your funds but that is only an issue at startup, once you have withdrawn back your capital so that all left on the exchange is already pure profit all they'd be stealing is some of your profligate profits, none of your initial capital.)


-MarkM-

The shitcoin scammers probably mostly run off with fiat, but mostly probably go through bitcoin to get to fiat, so end up dumping bitcoin, probably without caring much about the price as if the price goes low they just spew out more shitcoins. So net effect of the scamcoins may be more dumping of bitcoin than would happen without all this constant shitcoin scam ecology.

-MarkM-

Google found me a thread about PTS upgrade/update and I posted there my problem trying to build PTS, but the thread was long long dead (over 120 days it said) so dunno if I can expect any answer there:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878059.msg11732988#msg11732988

Actually google found two threads, the other seemed to be about an earlier upgrade/update:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325261.1380

The link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878059.msg11732988#msg11732988 is to my actual post, hopefully someone can address it?

TL;DR the newer update points into the github tree yet the clone URL shown on that page is the same as the one for the other thread which points to the top of the directory tree, yet the Ubuntu build instructions are the same and do not work. I suspect they need to have added to them something about some kind of git magic addressing the fact the link is not to the top of the tree but to some kind of branch or tag or somesuch down inside the tree.

-MarkM-

That is what crowdfunding and venture capital and such are for.

Or you partner up with a major mining company, or with an ASIC maker to release ASICs unique to your coin when the coin is released or whatever.

It is probably also why "IPO" scams proliferated for a while.

If at all possible it might be better to use an existing, cheap coin to build on instead of starting a new one, because you can buy up oodles of it quietly then release an upgrade / new version of it that incorporates your awesome innovation.

People made a lot of profit CPU-mining BBQcoin for a year while the trolls ran around claiming it was dead, and they didn't even innovate at all, they simply turned back on the publicity/websites/etc: announced it was in fact not dead at all.

You could for example quietly CPU-mine Tenebrix, Fairbrix, or even GeistGeld for a year or few years while you work in secret in your mom's basement designing the new improved version, and the better your new improved version is the more eagerly all the folks who quietly CPU-mine alongside you (so as not to drive up the difficulty for everyone by using a GPU, that is how the folks CPU-mining BBQcoin kept their costs down, being gentlefolk by not causing a hash-rate-war that would increase electricity use for them all) or who already hold some of the coin will jump on your bandwagon when you publish something utterly different but on whose blockchain all their coins are waiting for them.

(Look at protoshares / Bitshares PTS / Bitshares / endless stream of DACs... All you need do is make sure all the already existing coins are present in your new thing when you release the new thing...)

Tenebrix might even be ideal, because on IRC to this day its channel still lurks, announcing that some day all kinds of awesome features will be added. Go tell them about your awesome innovation(s) and maybe they will even give you some of the pre-mine on top of all the coins you can CPU-mine for virtually nothing for pretty much as long as you choose...

-MarkM-

I found two threads about this, they have slightly different github URLs they say to go to, however the BUILD instructions for Ubuntu on both pages are the same, and also the URL that github provides for you to use in your clone command are also the same.

Thus I followed the instructions:


git submodule update gets an error regarding leveldb:


I suspect that maybe these instructions are leaving out some kind of magic involving the difference between the github URL this thread specifies and the one the older thread specifies.

Basically, this thread seems to dive into the thing deeper instead of being the front page of the project, so maybe some kind of magic involving tags might need to be added to those instructions in order to make them work?

Specifically, the URL github shows on the page for you to clone is the URL the older thread gave, not the URL of the actual page tis thread tells you to go to.

I have a bunch of protoshares wallets so I am trying to get modern version of protoshares so I can start looking into what is in those wallets...

-MarkM-

You seem to be the one with comprehension problems.

How do IXCoin and I0Coin fail to address your points, particularly the lack of minting or tiny amount of minting that seems to be your main point?

IXCoin seems better than your example and I0Coin very similar depending on exactly how much minting your coin is actually doing.

Both have had years for anyone who got them "easily" to dump any they want to dump, and for anyone who wants any to acquire them, so they are very well distributed and have been dumped so much it is hard to believe anyone has any left to dump cheap without losing money by doing so.

-MarkM-

Folks here were given 50k ripples way back when, so maybe feel that suffices as their minimum gamble on ripple, especially with prices higher now than they've been in some time.

Does anyone here though know about ripple private keys? Their IRC channel folk seem to be totally ignorant. A long time ago it apparently used to be that you had to run a ripple daemon of your own if you wanted your private keys to actually stay private. Is that stil the case or do clients now do all their own encryption so the ripple daemons they connect to never see private keys?

It seems ominous that there does not seem to be info anywhere about your private keys and why not to give them to third parties and stuff like that. Does the rippletrade website get your keys? It says nothing about your browser doing all the encryption nor, if it does, how to ensure the javascript it does it with has not been corrupted etc...

Is there even going to be privacy/security, or are they moving to a model where authorities hold your keys so they can reverse your transactions or whatever they want with your money?

-MarkM-

Oh wow that keys to the past trick is killer!

A pre-mine could be sold off then its keys used to change the past to sell it off again, rinse and repeat until the suckers eventually maybe figure out the whole coin was ntohing but a scam from the start, meanwhile you've alreaqdy spammed out a few hundred more POS coins to run the same scam again and again...

Anyone who runs out of coins can get an extra little tip by selling their old keys to collectors looking to change the past...

How does anyone take POS coins seriously at all?

At least with Proof of Work you can have one family of merged mined coins per algorithm that might actually manage to have more than 50% of the world's hashing power of that algorithm securing them thus have some chance of actually being secure... Though even in Proof of Work one keeps seeing idiots falling for coins that re-use an established algorithm without supporting merged mining...

-MarkM-

How many years have those who got it cheap/easy early on had to dump their easy-come coins?

Seems like IXCoin or even I0Coin are probably much better choices as folks have had several years now to dump them if they wanted to, and at much higher prices than they are at lately.

Plus of course pure POS is not good, right? There is a reason why Peercoin had to go with a hybrid POS/POW model...

-MarkM-

I thought there was some way you could run umpteen daemons or something like that, each basically hoping to be the lucky instance that gets a block, all using the same wallet/stake since there is nothing preventing you using the same wallet/stake in billions of separate copies of the program?

Try a billion times to form the next block, and whichever copy succeeds thats cool, all the copies that failed cost you no coins they are in effect just a kind of hashing, a doing of work, the more different attempts you make to form the next block the greater your chance of doing so, while it costs you no additional stake since all the copies are all using the same stake. Its only the one that actually gets lucky and finds a block that anyone else sees.

As I recall it didn't actually require umpteen copies of the daemon, at least when it was first discussed years ago; you just modify the code to multiply your attempts at successfully finding a block with your stake.

I do not know the details as proof of stake was shot down when Sunny King came out with Peercoin and there has been no word since of anyone ever actually fixing the problem other than Sunny King making some vague handwavings smakescreens or whatever so it all amounted to oh pooh pooh who cares we are all making money so fuck it no oen actually cares that the whole thing is utterly broken from first principles.

The basic problem being it costs no stake to "use" stake for mining so you can use it in parallel as many times as you have RAM and CPU etc enough to do.

-MarkM-