I'm pretty sure it will be closed-down pretty tightly. They've invested heavily and want to make some money.
This is a piece of infrastructure. Infrastructure must create opportunities to be successful. If it has the potential to do so, but is locked down so can't, the Bitcoincard will go the way of so many other cool technologies. Like BeOS. Oh boy, I haven't heard BeOS mentioned for quite some time. I still remember back in the nineties when they wisited my university. They were ahead of their time and I think too small to pofilerate. IMO bitcoin is still small but right on time. |
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The formula fee = 0.0005 * max(1, (size(tx) / 1000) is the one used by the satoshi client for tx that are not using "old" inputs. However, this is not guaranteeing that you ever get into a block. It just guarantees propagation.
Oh, I think I misunderstood you. Is your software always computing a "worst case" fee, assuming all coins are fresh, even though the coins may be seasoned? If the answer is yes, then I apologise for wasting your time with stupid questions. Yes, this is the way it works. I should probably make the fee calculation include "coin age" but it doesn't right now. Guarantees in Bitcoin are wholy different story. Bitcoin is an implementation of worldwide Poisson-dsitributed lottery, so seeking the guarantees will be ultimately futile, sort of like a charging a premium for sale of the honest lottery ticket.
Right. However, I think that you can get close by looking at the average fees of recent transactions, and by looking at how big the pool of unconfirmed transactions is. Going forward I am pretty sure that miners will start paying more attention to transactions with higher fees. So what I am trying to achieve is to allow the user to choose between intelligent alternatives (cheap, normal, fast-track) instead of just letting the user enter an arbitrary fee. |
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very nice. Every bitcoin wallet should integrate this as a loading mechanism.
You have automated Trustcash to the point where its much more usable than their native service. nice job!
This is really cool. BitcoinSpinner already has a "Buy Coins" option that allows you to buy BTC using this feature. However, this is just for you to buy coins for yourself. Gareth's post is really an important reminder that this feature can also be used for other people to send you coins by just using cash. I imagine this addition to BitcoinSpinner: 1) User clicks the new "Receive Coins" on the BS main page 2) App displays "Does the sender have Bitcoin or cash?" and two buttons "Bitcoin" "Cash" 3a) Sender has Bitcoin: User enters the amount in BTC and the standard bitcoin QR-code including the amount is displayed. The sender scans this QR code using his device and pays using one of the many wallets out there. 3b) Sender has cash: User enters amount in USD and a QR-code for a BitInstant URL is displayed. The sender scans this QR code using his favorite device and goes to the nearest location to deposit cash. 4) You get Bitcoin |
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I quickly wrapped up a Mobile version of the site to broadcast (I disabled viewing because it looked like crap lol, I need to redo the scaling but will be quite easy). I got a request for this on the site and when I checked it out I tried to quickly get something working. Please be aware this is very very alpha as porting involved disabling quite some stuff I don't have time to redo now. Enjoy and please report your experience http://cam4btc.com/Main.airDoesn't work on an iPhone. |
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The approach that BitcoinSpinner uses is to always have fee = 0.0005 * max(1, (size(tx) / 1000).
I have to ask: why not implement the correct equation from the Satoshi client instead of some broken hack? Death.A.T. even repeated the equation in his post, so no C++ comprehension is required. Is this a designer/programmer obstinacy or some architectural problem like with RPC interface to the Satoshi client, where one cannot reliably precompute the fee? The formula fee = 0.0005 * max(1, (size(tx) / 1000) is the one used by the satoshi client for tx that are not using "old" inputs. However, this is not guaranteeing that you ever get into a block. It just guarantees propagation. |
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This is an interesting thread.
Adding user specified transaction fees is really simple, you just let the user enter whatever he wishes to pay. BitcoinSpinner did this initially, and that was a big mistake. The fee rules for making sure that your transaction gets routed through the network are really complex, and an end user should never have to make complex decisions when sending coins.
What is the user supposed to enter?
If he enters zero he risks that his transactions never goes anywhere near a miner
If he does the complex calculation required to guarantee propagation he still may have to wait a long time for getting into a block (in theory forever)
So basically he is left at doing guess-work, and being an average user with no clue about fees work he will just enter zero, and may end up with his funds somewhere in limbo.
The approach that BitcoinSpinner uses is to always have fee = 0.0005 * max(1, (size(tx) / 1000). This guarantees propagation, but not immediate block inclusion.
A better solution would be to look at the recent blocks and calculate some kind of average fee on transactions in those blocks. This gives us two different fees: propagation-fee & average-fee.
Lets assume that average-fee is larger than propagation-fee. Whenever the user wants to send coins he could be given the option to pay the propagation-fee (and patiently wait) or the average-fee (normal speed), or pay 2 * average-fee (fast track).
How does this sound? Does any client do something like this?
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Not sure how you'd want to classify BitcoinSpinner (an Android app.) It charges a set fee of 0.0005 BTC per transaction, all of which goes to the miners.
I would call that "fixed fee 0.0005 BTC". Updated. Clarification. BitcoinSpinner has a fee of 0.0005 BTC pr 1000 bytes of tx size, 0.0005 minimum. Everything goes to the miner. An earlier version allowed the user to specify the fee, however it was confusing for the end user. |
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BitInstant will have direct BTC -> Bank Account transfers within a couple weeks.
Now this is awesome. Which countries? |
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ok, sorry for spreading fud as this is most likely a bug in my android phone and persists for many other sites since at least 6 months: bitinstant as some other bitcoin related websites show an illegal certificate warning on my motorola defy. as bitinstant is affected at least on my device, they might be interested in resolving the source of this scary warning. This certificate is not from a trusted authority.
Issued to:
CN: RapidSSL CA
Org: GeoTrust, Inc.
Issued by:
CN: GeoTrust Global CA
Org: GeoTrust Inc.
Validity:
issued: 19/2/2010
Expires: 18/2/2020 my phone is rooted, just in case that helps. the problem was there before rooting it. This is a known issue and is caused by the CA not being included in android. To fix it we will be switching to another CA, but for now please disregard the warning - despite the CA not being in android your data is still secure. You have a link? Why is this CA not included? In Opera it works. It probably depends on which Android version you use. If the root certification authority (CA) certificate did not exist or was not included in the Android version your device has, then you will get a certificate warning. The fix is either to upgrade your device or to let the service use a certificate that was issued by an old (established) CA such as Verisign. They charge you big time for this and they make a ton of money. |
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Kudos to the BitInstant team for making this possible! I just did a little integration work with BitcoinSpinner, they are the real heroes.
I must say that I felt like a small kid at Christmas when I went down to the local bank the other day to test this new feature. And... Lo and behold, after 30 minutes I had my present, 15 shiny bitcoins directly into the wallet on my phone. No paper, no computer, no ID. Just cash and my phone.
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There is an update of bitcoinspinner in the android market today. Amongst the new feature, there's this one: "Buy bitcoin (using bitinstant)".
How awesome is that!
I saw that today after the update. This is a great addition to this app. As some of you have already noticed in this thread BitcoinSpinner now integrates with BitInstant. Please make sure to read the announcement here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87852.msg965850#msg965850I pushed the software update to the Android Market before the announcement to have it ready, and some of my dear users found it before the official announcement  Now it is time for me to focus on some of your feature requests, and adding PIN protection to BitcoinSpinner is on the top of my list. Please have in mind that I am not making a living off this, so please have a little patience. |
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The teller at my chase bank told me I was the second person that day to make a deposit like that. I live in a quasi rural area, so I was surprised...
Wow. That is awesome... Just the other day I was thinking to myself... If I'm every out and about, and randomly overhear a mention of Bitcoin in some conversation, I think I will figuratively pull down my pants and take a shit in front of everyone right there. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but it made me laugh and hearing "Bitcoin" in a random venue will truly be a memorable day for me. Lol. BTW: it really helps wearing one of them bitcoin T-shirts. All of a sudden you get contacted by ppl who heard something and want to know more. |
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Just give me a URL that gives me the current schedule, so I can check it out on my phone.
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So can someone list the pros and cons of this device vs bitcoin card? Is there enough information to even compile such a list?
I have seen the bitcoincard, but until both devices are actually in the hands of users I'd be very careful with such comparisons. As for the interoperability between different devices: I think it is important to keep all devices somehow compatible with Bitcoin itself. As long as each device supports sending and receiving funds to/from an arbitrary Bitcoin address on a standard notebook computer or a smartphone, everything will be fine. I am also of the opinion that in the end it is about bringing Bitcoin to the users, not some device. It is pretty much the same as with different software clients: I couldn't care less if you're using bitcoin-Qt, Armory, BitcoinSpinner or if you happen to like crafting your own transactions with a pocket calculator  Everything which makes it easier for people to actually use Bitcoin (while staying reasonably secure) is certainly an improvement and I'll happily support every device that helps to achieve this goal! +1 |
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I have a question about how to do a wallet backup with this app. When I choose backup wallet, and confirm the action, a QR code is generated. Then I copy to clipboard. However when I paste this anywhere to save it, it pastes as a numbers/letters..ect. Now when I go restore from backup the app expects a QR code. How do I restore from the backup if the code is not pasting as a QR code in the initial step of taking a backup?
Your help is appreciated.
Thanks!
There are basically two ways you can do backup/restore 1. Take a picture of the backup QR-code with a secondary camera and print it on paper. 2. Copy the text value of the QR-code to the clipboard, and use an external tool to generate a QR-code from it. When doing a restore, just scan the QR-code. I have always used option 1. Copying it to the clipboard makes it available to other apps on the same device. I agree that this could be somewhat easier, and I have been considering to add the option of writing the QR-code as an image onto the SD card of the device. However, so far I have avoided this as it would require BitcoinSpinner to have privileges to write onto the SD card. I am very focused on limiting the required privileges to the bare minimum, right now BitcoinSpinner only requires: - Network Communication
- View Network State
This makes it easier for me when I have to defend BitcoinSpinner from paranoid users claiming that it steals contacts or tampers with your SD card etc. I am open to suggestions. |
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All in all this sounds pretty amazing! Alex Squared, as Charlie calls them, should join our forum so we can pick their brains directly |
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I skimmed this thread, and would like to know how this is better than the "smart" phone I just bought.
The only thing I see people saying is that it is smaller and thus harder to steal. If that is the only selling point it would be hard for me carry something extra that I can already do.
Thanks.
It would be more secure. "smart" phones are super easy to turn into "out of your control" phones. Please go ahead and hack my phone. My number is +1 (650) 426-8720. Yes, it contains BTC. |
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I have tried "embedded key" solutions for mobile: they just do not work for me because there is the time when I want to make a quick send and the device wants to update its block chain.
I need to wait a few seconds or minutes and that turns the user experience to really bad compared to just any other payment solutions.
IMHO, thin clients (with backend hosted keys) are the way to go mobile.
The keys do not have to be on the server for the device to be snappy. Try BitcoinSpinner for android or the Ellet once it is publicly available. |
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If you have an android phone BitcoinSpinner is a very secure option. The server side never sees the shadow of your private key, not even in encrypted form. Nothing to brute-force. If the server goes offline the app still allows you to export your private key.
Yes, I am the main dev of BitcoinSpinner.
BitcoinSpinner is hands down the fastest app out there. I use it all the time to pay for my beer at Whiskey Dicks. I can literally scan a QR code and send bitcoins, and have them received in less than 5 seconds. Jan did it right. All he needs is a graphics guy for 10-20 BTC to spice up the interface and its a winner. Thanks! I admit that graphics is not my strong side. The code is right here: http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinspinner/ and I encourage anyone with UI skills to make a fork and create something that looks cool. |
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