Reference 1Reference 2"..there is a possibility that we end up locking investments soon so that no new investments can be done and we will be looking to add in more private funds.."Great idea^ App commissions are too high. MP commission can be reduced perhaps by 1/10 to 1/5 of what it currently is awarding MP for each bet placed, but mostly, the burden of imbalance rests on app owners, as far as I can appraise the problem. They are getting a slice of the pie that is a bit too large vs. the investors who bear the gambling risk. Now personally, if I owned MP, the bankroll would be private, I'm not someone who is for crowdfunded bankrolls, I think it's composed of people with exactly the same mentality as all those countless ones in gambling / "investing" subforums who hunt for "Ohh you say this HYIP is paying out so far right? Ok lemme invest" - pathetic ;/ ^So, admittedly I am biased, I'm not exactly the most neutral opinion source re: MP's issues lol. And of course I'm a huge gambler.. I'll always be a player, never on the 'investor's' side of things. Nonetheless I hope this insight is of some use to MP in their difficult time. Something to keep in mind - Ryan H. created MoneyPot and is the one who structured things as they are, designed the payout structures, and the DogeD/ACoin/Ranlo+[Devs] team merely inherited all of this from the sale last year.. It seems quite plausible they might have weighted & designed the payout %'s to each category of users differently had they created MP from scratch. There are some differences - Ryan ran MP on the kelly system, which is +EV and +Growth. The current team has used a variety of systems I think to determine their max bet, whether it be 1% of bankroll, or more, or 20BTC flat. I believe Ryan has argued that this could be the primary reason for long-term bankroll decline Current is a hybrid of kelly with max win being 1%. During the first several months, we had kept the options the exact same way that Ryan had set up for us with the exception that we took 20% of the house edge on all single wagers. Ryan's argument holds true under a very specific scenario that would involve the majority of all volume being made up of max bets from whales that have an almost infinite bankroll to bet with. Any chance you can share what the actual distribution is? 20% of the house edge goes directly to MP (our commission) 50% of the house edge goes to directly to App Owners (as a referral) 30% of the theoretical house edge goes to the investors. Were you referring to something else? No like wager size distribution - like what percentage is made up by whales, etc? Out of the 73,775 BTC wagered so far: Approximately 5000 Bitcoin wagered is made up of bets of 5 Bitcoin or more. Approximately 3500 Bitcoin wagered is made up of bets of 1 Bitcoin or more. Approximately 65,275 Bitcoin wagered is made up of bets below 1 Bitcoin. Perfect! thanks |
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Reference 1Reference 2"..there is a possibility that we end up locking investments soon so that no new investments can be done and we will be looking to add in more private funds.."Great idea^ App commissions are too high. MP commission can be reduced perhaps by 1/10 to 1/5 of what it currently is awarding MP for each bet placed, but mostly, the burden of imbalance rests on app owners, as far as I can appraise the problem. They are getting a slice of the pie that is a bit too large vs. the investors who bear the gambling risk. Now personally, if I owned MP, the bankroll would be private, I'm not someone who is for crowdfunded bankrolls, I think it's composed of people with exactly the same mentality as all those countless ones in gambling / "investing" subforums who hunt for "Ohh you say this HYIP is paying out so far right? Ok lemme invest" - pathetic ;/ ^So, admittedly I am biased, I'm not exactly the most neutral opinion source re: MP's issues lol. And of course I'm a huge gambler.. I'll always be a player, never on the 'investor's' side of things. Nonetheless I hope this insight is of some use to MP in their difficult time. Something to keep in mind - Ryan H. created MoneyPot and is the one who structured things as they are, designed the payout structures, and the DogeD/ACoin/Ranlo+[Devs] team merely inherited all of this from the sale last year.. It seems quite plausible they might have weighted & designed the payout %'s to each category of users differently had they created MP from scratch. There are some differences - Ryan ran MP on the kelly system, which is +EV and +Growth. The current team has used a variety of systems I think to determine their max bet, whether it be 1% of bankroll, or more, or 20BTC flat. I believe Ryan has argued that this could be the primary reason for long-term bankroll decline Current is a hybrid of kelly with max win being 1%. During the first several months, we had kept the options the exact same way that Ryan had set up for us with the exception that we took 20% of the house edge on all single wagers. Ryan's argument holds true under a very specific scenario that would involve the majority of all volume being made up of max bets from whales that have an almost infinite bankroll to bet with. Any chance you can share what the actual distribution is? 20% of the house edge goes directly to MP (our commission) 50% of the house edge goes to directly to App Owners (as a referral) 30% of the theoretical house edge goes to the investors. Were you referring to something else? No like wager size distribution - like what percentage is made up by whales, etc? |
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Reference 1Reference 2"..there is a possibility that we end up locking investments soon so that no new investments can be done and we will be looking to add in more private funds.."Great idea^ App commissions are too high. MP commission can be reduced perhaps by 1/10 to 1/5 of what it currently is awarding MP for each bet placed, but mostly, the burden of imbalance rests on app owners, as far as I can appraise the problem. They are getting a slice of the pie that is a bit too large vs. the investors who bear the gambling risk. Now personally, if I owned MP, the bankroll would be private, I'm not someone who is for crowdfunded bankrolls, I think it's composed of people with exactly the same mentality as all those countless ones in gambling / "investing" subforums who hunt for "Ohh you say this HYIP is paying out so far right? Ok lemme invest" - pathetic ;/ ^So, admittedly I am biased, I'm not exactly the most neutral opinion source re: MP's issues lol. And of course I'm a huge gambler.. I'll always be a player, never on the 'investor's' side of things. Nonetheless I hope this insight is of some use to MP in their difficult time. Something to keep in mind - Ryan H. created MoneyPot and is the one who structured things as they are, designed the payout structures, and the DogeD/ACoin/Ranlo+[Devs] team merely inherited all of this from the sale last year.. It seems quite plausible they might have weighted & designed the payout %'s to each category of users differently had they created MP from scratch. There are some differences - Ryan ran MP on the kelly system, which is +EV and +Growth. The current team has used a variety of systems I think to determine their max bet, whether it be 1% of bankroll, or more, or 20BTC flat. I believe Ryan has argued that this could be the primary reason for long-term bankroll decline Current is a hybrid of kelly with max win being 1%. During the first several months, we had kept the options the exact same way that Ryan had set up for us with the exception that we took 20% of the house edge on all single wagers. Ryan's argument holds true under a very specific scenario that would involve the majority of all volume being made up of max bets from whales that have an almost infinite bankroll to bet with. Any chance you can share what the actual distribution is? |
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Reference 1Reference 2"..there is a possibility that we end up locking investments soon so that no new investments can be done and we will be looking to add in more private funds.."Great idea^ App commissions are too high. MP commission can be reduced perhaps by 1/10 to 1/5 of what it currently is awarding MP for each bet placed, but mostly, the burden of imbalance rests on app owners, as far as I can appraise the problem. They are getting a slice of the pie that is a bit too large vs. the investors who bear the gambling risk. Now personally, if I owned MP, the bankroll would be private, I'm not someone who is for crowdfunded bankrolls, I think it's composed of people with exactly the same mentality as all those countless ones in gambling / "investing" subforums who hunt for "Ohh you say this HYIP is paying out so far right? Ok lemme invest" - pathetic ;/ ^So, admittedly I am biased, I'm not exactly the most neutral opinion source re: MP's issues lol. And of course I'm a huge gambler.. I'll always be a player, never on the 'investor's' side of things. Nonetheless I hope this insight is of some use to MP in their difficult time. Something to keep in mind - Ryan H. created MoneyPot and is the one who structured things as they are, designed the payout structures, and the DogeD/ACoin/Ranlo+[Devs] team merely inherited all of this from the sale last year.. It seems quite plausible they might have weighted & designed the payout %'s to each category of users differently had they created MP from scratch. There are some differences - Ryan ran MP on the kelly system, which is +EV and +Growth. The current team has used a variety of systems I think to determine their max bet, whether it be 1% of bankroll, or more, or 20BTC flat. I believe Ryan has argued that this could be the primary reason for long-term bankroll decline |
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It looks like last activity on this account is in 2014 ( Tuesday, March 18 2014 08:06:40 - Tuesday, April 1 2014 08:13:20: 2.72% of activity ).
Is there any way you can proof that this account belongs to you? If you say no address posted on this account then no one will buy this account because later original owner may claim with proper proofs.
How could the original owner re-claim if there's now staked address? |
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I think the situation is good.
Indeed - hopefully it won't take a Gox-style event for it to happen, but I could definitely see Bitfinex picking up volume over the coming months. The near-term future for XMR looks very strong: - RingCT - GUI - Bitfinex additional liquidity & decentralization (and wallet storage for the risk-takers) Do we have you back in the XMR game, Risto? Heh I'd actually argue the big exchanges are actually the weak link, given everything that's happened with them |
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Is it true only investors lost the money in moneypot but moneypot owners and app owners are in profits?
I'm not so good in understanding the statistics, but from this table, it looks like only investors lost the money and others are in still profit. If it is true, then moneypot is not suitable for investors, right?
Yes, it's true. The site and the apps make a guaranteed gain every time a bet is placed, even if the bet wins. When a bet wins, not only do the investors have to pay the winner of the bet, but they also have to pay the site and the app owner. You can see that in the screenshot. Comparing the left and right sides you see that while the site profit dropped by just 78.5 BTC, the investor profit dropped by 82.5 BTC. The app owners actually profited by 3 BTC from this large loss, and the site itself profited by a further 1 BTC. The investors made up the difference. On the other hand, if the apps ever do better than expected then the investors will also do better than expected. The site and the apps take a percentage of the wagered amount, independent of the actual profit. The way things are set up means that when the site performs at less than 70% of expectation the investors take a loss. I was going to quote your other post and respond, but decided against it, as I'd rather just drop it. I still don't understand why all the site owners can't just create a pact together to help each other out instead of constantly attacking one another. We'd all be much better off united. This is a much better post. I don't know why you couldn't just say this from the beginning. Many people hang on to your every word. If you say it is 'Like' something, many are going to assume that's the way it really is always. That was my problem. Anyways, just as a headsup, there is a possibility that we end up locking investments soon so that no new investments can be done and we will be looking to add in more private funds. We believe the investment situation is highly profitable in the long run. I agree with Dogedigital, too often are there people in threads that stir up trouble for other businesses just for some weird personal satisfaction. I think if you really had good intentions of trying to help others improve on their sites you'd send a private message to discuss. Doing this publicly Dooglus makes it look vindictive, and at this point why? There is no legitimate answer to that and I don't expect one, just perhaps consider the choices you make prior to posting on threads other than your own. Have you ever notice most of us never post in your business thread? It's because we could frankly give 2 shits what you're doing with your sites. On the other hand, some of us care a lot, because it's a lot of real money invested in these sites |
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App owners and moneypot owners have no risk whatsoever. They take commision from the wagered bitcoins, investors take the real risk of players gambling against their bankroll. So yes, only investors lost.
App owners incur the cost of hosting the app and the cost of marketing/attracting players to play at their app. MP owners incur the cost of attracting app owners to develop MP apps and to attract players to play at MP, as well as the cost of securing funds, and the various seeds. A lot of the costs that both app owners and MP owners incur will be incurred regardless of betting volume, so they are risking that betting volumes will not be high enough so that commissions on bets to cover the costs. On a per bet basis, it is correct to say that MP owners and app owners do not bear any risk on each individual bet, however it is far from accurate to say that they do not bear any risk at all. Yeah, I was referring to per bet basis as you said it. Didn't take the other costs in consideration. Nevertheless I'd still say investors' risk is way greater than it should be. It depends how you look at it. Sites like crypto games and safe dice give 70% ish to investors but sites like BetKing are proposing to give just 30% to investors, same as MP but BetKing will also share in the losses So, it's really uncharted territory here that we're in now Also worth pointing out is that Crypto-Games takes commission AND faucets from the investment pool. So they aren't even covering all the marketing costs -- investors are. There you go - and I think their faucet is much higher than MP's. Not to mention their rainbot... |
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App owners and moneypot owners have no risk whatsoever. They take commision from the wagered bitcoins, investors take the real risk of players gambling against their bankroll. So yes, only investors lost.
App owners incur the cost of hosting the app and the cost of marketing/attracting players to play at their app. MP owners incur the cost of attracting app owners to develop MP apps and to attract players to play at MP, as well as the cost of securing funds, and the various seeds. A lot of the costs that both app owners and MP owners incur will be incurred regardless of betting volume, so they are risking that betting volumes will not be high enough so that commissions on bets to cover the costs. On a per bet basis, it is correct to say that MP owners and app owners do not bear any risk on each individual bet, however it is far from accurate to say that they do not bear any risk at all. Yeah, I was referring to per bet basis as you said it. Didn't take the other costs in consideration. Nevertheless I'd still say investors' risk is way greater than it should be. It depends how you look at it. Sites like crypto games and safe dice give 70% ish to investors but sites like BetKing are proposing to give just 30% to investors, same as MP but BetKing will also share in the losses So, it's really uncharted territory here that we're in now |
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Any chance of a vouch copy here?
PM you, bro Very interested in talking further, let me know |
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What kind of budget are we talking about here?
I suppose that would depend on the features and appearance of the site. Definitely not shy from spending a bit of money. Yes, but everything's relative isn't it? A bit for you may not be the same as a bit for me or a bit for someone else |
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is primedice doing a giveaway to those who leave a comment on this topic?
because nothing is changed about primedice compared to before, also i keep seeing brand new members in this topic leaving positive comment with their primedice username, also in the market PD has lost their share when good competition came along like crypto-games and bitsler and they replaced PD's first place that is why it is strange to me to see all these comments like this here!
Trustworthiness is worth a lot in this business I would think |
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Is this some new low in bitcoin gambling industry? Back in the day I remember you guys were hunting for non provably fair casino and yet now it seema you guys are hunting for competitor? Quite a story indeed and I didnt expect that coming from you guys
You said it yourself - back in the day. I think people are always looking for the next new thing and if a site doesn't change, then they start looking. Hopefully v2 will change people's minds and bring MP back to its former glory |
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So anyone can become tipster and share his tips on your site? If that is the case then how do you moderate it?
I mean your service could be flooded with bad predictions. Do you have any criteria you need to met to be qualifies to be a tipster, or to keep your status?
Anyone can be a tipster, the tips are accurately graded after the game is played, there is no criteria just a leader board, people can follow who they want or nobody, and you can see their picks 30 minutes before match, or whenever if you buy the service on their website. That sounds good, however have you considered asking forum tipsters to join your service? There are many skilled tipsters on the forum, and if you can convince or sponsor them to put some premium picks on your site and promote your site through their bitcointalk tipster threads, I think that you will be able to attract business. Heh there are also many unskilled tipsters on the forum who might fear their actual win/loss records being a matter of public record |
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Sorry...didn't think to check there. Thanks for the info - I am genuinely curious |
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Nathan still playing and defining the word variance? or has he gotten bored?
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Have you looked at the bankroll recently? They got crushed... |
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Hey, if you're still looking for this I can definitely help you out for a reasonable interest rate. Let me know thanks
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Damn is the trial used up already?
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What kind of budget are we talking about here?
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