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7801  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: [Contest][ALT] Best portfolio 2022 on: May 21, 2022, 10:13:16 AM
Pretty much. Mirror ran on the Terra blockchain, and took Terra's algorithmic stablecoin UST to be worth 1 USD. Last week, UST broke and depegged, taking down Terra with it. Mirror's pricing oracles seem to be taking 1 USD = 1 UST as fact, but 1 UST is now trading at $0.101 so stock pricing is broken (example: oracles are reporting $TWTR to be worth 38.23 UST (~= $3.84), while stock market pricing is $38.24 USD). Even if pricing was accurate taking the depeg into account, a lot of trust has been lost in Terra so most people are probably looking to get out.
When pegging a stock to crypto, I would assume that when someone buys a "crypto stock" the organisation behind it buys the real stock and keeps it. If that happened, the stock must still be there! Who's taking the profit now? If it didn't happen, it was a ponzi from the start.
7802  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Is diversification into different coins really a good advice for Newbies? on: May 21, 2022, 10:09:09 AM
Even when you consider the constant stream of newly created shitcoins with ridiculous marketcaps (which in no way reflect their true value or the amount of money actually spent) diluting the numbers, bitcoin's dominance has increased by 4% over the last month, while pretty much everything else is down. People gamble on shitcoins during a bull market, but as soon as the bear market comes along, everyone knows the safest place that their money should have been all along.
That leads back to my conclusion that altcoins and all the other "disrupting creations" are only created to earn the creator more money. Add the fact that exchanges earn billions of dollars from it, it's not even a zero-sum game: it's a game with more losses than profit.
7803  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: [TESTED IT] Minimum transaction value on: May 21, 2022, 10:04:30 AM
but does not mean that it is the lowest transaction that can be broadcast in the network?! Huh
It could happen, but it's not very likely. Even if you connect to a node that accepts a lower dust limit, that node will also have the same problem so it can't propagate it to other nodes.
7804  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - email to get whitelisted for free on: May 21, 2022, 09:59:20 AM
And you accidentally misquote 1miau instead of Apocollapse  Roll Eyes
Thanks for the sharp eye! When I quote someone else (in this case myself) while responding to a quote, I go back to copy the original header instead of continuing with only [ quote]. In this case I scrolled up too far.
7805  Other / Meta / Re: The future of Bitcointalk: Low Ranking Top Merit earners in the past 30 days on: May 21, 2022, 09:37:46 AM
Update:
     1. Newbie handsome_latino (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 53 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     2. Newbie Bwize (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 50 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     3. Newbie marti99 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 25 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     4. Newbie PhysicalBitcoinArt (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 20 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     5. Newbie English Patrol Scuad (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 20 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     6. Newbie life_experience (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 19 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     7. Newbie mendace (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 19 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     8. Newbie death_wish (Trust: +0 / =1 / -0) earned 17 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     9. Newbie saiga31 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 16 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    10. Newbie satstakka (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 15 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    11. Newbie NeoArkan (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 14 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    12. Newbie laminar_hash (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 13 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    13. Newbie ThemePen (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 13 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    14. Newbie nlavji (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 13 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    15. Newbie vinshet (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 13 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    16. Newbie a298b112 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 13 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    17. Newbie Morpheus Eberhardt (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 12 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    18. Newbie sdub01 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 12 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    19. Newbie markgg (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 12 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    20. Newbie FullMetalCryptomist (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 11 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    21. Newbie GoBrrr.me (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 11 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    22. Newbie HypeManBoosted (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    23. Newbie holyfather (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    24. Newbie ncentrepreneur.investor (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    25. Newbie blockgardener (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    26. Newbie Taipan_ (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    27. Newbie Ojima-ojo (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    28. Newbie mRTHroo (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    29. Newbie Olga_Zubareva (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    30. Newbie Pastaga (Trust: +0 / =1 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    31. Newbie Symphoenix (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    32. Newbie jaybee888 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    33. Newbie Nofearboy (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    34. Newbie Bongline (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    35. Newbie CryptoPro909 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    36. Newbie wulzer (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    37. Newbie Bitdev181 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)

     1. Jr. Member Cricktor (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 29 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     2. Jr. Member NdaMk (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 28 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     3. Jr. Member Nerdy doctor (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 27 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     4. Jr. Member P2PECS (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 26 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     5. Jr. Member Thenoss (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 26 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     6. Jr. Member Solosanz (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 25 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     7. Jr. Member Noob_Is_Relative (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 19 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     8. Jr. Member takuma sato (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 18 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     9. Jr. Member ajaxtempest (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 16 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    10. Jr. Member Hyphen(-) (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 16 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    11. Jr. Member eightdots (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 14 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    12. Jr. Member Blue King (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 12 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    13. Jr. Member Bamjos (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 12 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    14. Jr. Member zeroth (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    15. Jr. Member AnotherAlt (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    16. Jr. Member pbies (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    17. Jr. Member Jatiluhung (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    18. Jr. Member Proro (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    19. Jr. Member kalihunter (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    20. Jr. Member cpu-pool (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    21. Jr. Member vitasor (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    22. Jr. Member kaszebe1 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)

     1. Member Coinfarm ventures (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 96 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     2. Member Joric (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 48 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     3. Member Agbe (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 44 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     4. Member Oluwa-btc (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 41 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     5. Member Wakate (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 36 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     6. Member Hamza2424 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 35 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     7. Member DVlog (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 31 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     8. Member TheGhostMan (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 30 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
     9. Member CryptoHeadlineNews (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 29 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    10. Member MrMojoRising26 (Trust: +9 / =0 / -0) earned 28 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    11. Member bubasik (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 26 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    12. Member GiftedMAN (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 25 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    13. Member Jossque (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 23 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    14. Member Odusko (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 21 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    15. Member dhru9 (Trust: +0 / =1 / -0) earned 21 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    16. Member kriptobaron (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 21 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    17. Member Franctoshi (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 20 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    18. Member Inwestour (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 20 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    19. Member rasengan (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 19 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    20. Member isgtss (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 18 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    21. Member bboyz (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 17 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    22. Member Silence Scream (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 17 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    23. Member BD Crypto (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 15 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    24. Member Wimex (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 15 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    25. Member bonfire66 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 14 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    26. Member Roman_Picisan (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 13 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    27. Member pressnegl (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 13 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    28. Member ser_trader (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 12 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    29. Member Ahli38 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    30. Member 5W-KILO (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    31. Member UKprod (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    32. Member SamaritanMan (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    33. Member Marvelman (Trust: +0 / =2 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    34. Member angelbbs (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    35. Member malcovi2 (Trust: +0 / =1 / -0) earned 10 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    36. Member diderdrogba (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    37. Member Synchronice (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    38. Member VRExpress (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    39. Member Scripture (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 9 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    40. Member Ryu_Ar1 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    41. Member GEMIN_M4 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    42. Member cryptosize (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    43. Member Silver80 (Trust: +0 / =1 / -1) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
    44. Member Kogs (Trust: +0 / =0 / -0) earned 8 Merit in 30 days (BPIP)
7806  Other / Meta / Re: Ban Appeal For naim027. on: May 21, 2022, 09:07:07 AM
Once again, I am willing to accept a sig ban for a year or more. Will appreciated if they reduce the punishment.
You're missing the point: read theymos' quote again. What good have you offered the forum, and what good can you offer in the future?
7807  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: [TESTED IT] Minimum transaction value on: May 21, 2022, 07:46:21 AM
'Ten years ago dust, now a fortune'
And half the fortune will be spend on fees.

Quote
But I support the 'half a day VPN' idea.
It's now a week: do you want it?

Quote
I tested if 17 segwit dusts can be sent together, it worked.
Do the same to your legacy dust Smiley

Quote
Think of it as the 18 dusts from the legacy addresses, sent as segwit dusts.
That is what I expected, but it hasn't moved yet. I thought c7298be8c111422fd0bc3915d67451ea24fba9b3529126e4bf39ca5db94370ba was from you, but now I'm not sure anymore.
7808  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] bitaddress.org Safe JavaScript Bitcoin address/private key on: May 21, 2022, 07:14:30 AM
Anyone interested?
I'd like to continue this discussion, but you should create another topic for it. If you do, feel free to mention me (@LoyceV)
7809  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Writing down seed phrase: printer ink or pen ink ? on: May 21, 2022, 06:16:29 AM
a reasonably sophistocated attacker would simply get the diary into a text file then search for strings of keywords in the bip 39 wordlist. "blanket air setup scrap feature actress prison bitter cash torch vacant valley" would stick out like a sore thumb. so keeping the 12 words together would be like handing over your seed phrase to an attacker on a silver platter.
It indeed won't help against a targeted attack, but how likely are those? I'm talking about the millions of burglaries where the thief looks for valuables and wants to get out as quickly as possible again. 12 words under your pillow will be noticed, 12 words in a long written text will be ignored.
7810  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - email to get whitelisted for free on: May 21, 2022, 05:51:55 AM
Yesterday, Sea5ick tried to register an account but he got blocked because he used a VPN to do so because of evil IP.  Cry
His account: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3476779
He's whitelisted now.

I don't know how all those accounts convince you to whitelist them, but I wonder what's those brand new accounts purpose to get whitelisted? Does their purpose is to send a personal message only?
I don't know, but this is the reason I added statistics:
Statistics
  • Users who never posted: 77
  • Total Merit earned: 2407
  • Total users banned: 2

Most of accounts you whitelisted are correct since they're not a shitposter, but this account is like a bounty hunter since his first post ask how to earn coin and apply in bounty thread. Are you really whitelist a bounty hunter or he's lied to you?

I checked his emails again: I initially rejected his request, then changed my mind. It's a learning experience for me too, I'm trying to find a balance between rejecting some users who shouldn't be whitelisted, and accidentally accepting some others who don't deserve it. I can't be absolutely sure based on an email, but with only 2 banned users (until now) and 2400 Merit earned by whitelisted users, I'd say my Whitelisting efforts are a contribution to the forum.
7811  Other / Meta / Re: Ban Appeal For naim027. on: May 21, 2022, 05:46:09 AM
LoyceV asked me to edit my posts and add the sources. I have edited a few posts, but I could not edit all of them because I forgot if they were copied or not.
That was dumb. You should have searched for the source of each post (that's how we catch plagiarism), or you could have deleted every old post just to be sure. You've had several chances to correct all your plagiarism, and you didn't take them.

If you want any chance to turn your ban into a signature ban, you should focus on this:
If you think that a ban should be ended, make your case in a new topic from a "good for the forum as a whole" perspective.
7812  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system on: May 20, 2022, 11:25:55 AM
I cannot suggest a solution.
I can:
Trust list
You should add users who left accurate feedback and have good Trust lists to your Trust list, and you should exclude users who leave inaccurate feedback.
This means your Trust list should be based on how you value the users' judgement on others, and it should not be based on whether or not you Trust those users (with money) or traded with them.
I encourage anyone to create their own custom Trust list! But before you do, please continue reading so you understand the implications.
7813  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system on: May 20, 2022, 10:45:46 AM
Do you believe scam busters and some specific DT members helping the forum by leaving negative feedback on bounty cheaters' accounts?
I think it's a waste of time to tag Newbies without any earned Merit for something they can just continue from many new accounts.

Quote
I have seen bounty hunters do cheats on the bounty campaigns and some users hunting them as well. After they catch any bounty cheater with multiple alt accounts, they do report and DT members tag those newbie accounts.
I've seen that too. If they believe someone deserves negative feedback, they should do it by themselves. That's how the Trust system becomes less centralized.

Quote
after leaving them negative feedback, those newbies create another account and come back again.
It's futile. And worse, if too many accounts get tags for something as dumb as spamming Twitter and Facebook, it could make people believe negative feedback is normal instead of a big warning.
7814  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Writing down seed phrase: printer ink or pen ink ? on: May 20, 2022, 08:24:45 AM
yeah but in that case, the person the diary belongs to might forget how to decode it too. so back to square 1.
That's easy: just read through your own handwriting, until you stumble onto 12 words that form an incoherent sentence. It might take you a few hours, but you'll find it.

Quote
whenever you try and obfuscate information inside other information, you run the risk that you forget the encoding process and how to recover the information.
That's true. And that's why I wouldn't suggest adding your own encoding, just keep the 12 words together. I'll give you a hint: search for "Blanket" on this page Smiley

Quote
a diary composed of list of meaningless sentences, sounds like a bitcoin private key hiding somewhere. Grin
That's because I couldn't find a meaningful diary to download as an example Tongue In real life, if you have a diary already, you can just add the seed words today in the middle of your story. The coming months it will be hidden "deeper".
7815  Other / Meta / Re: [174 weeks] [Updated May 14 LoyceV's Trust list viewer - Create your own! on: May 20, 2022, 08:13:46 AM
The data dump only shows relationships where both the truster and trustee have non-zero post counts (so when a user gets Nuked, it'll show up as if (dis)trust was removed).
I had just removed naim027 from my trust list
~
According to this, I see that it would not have been necessary because it would have been removed anyway?
No, it does matter. The user wasn't Nuked, he was Autobanned. Only Newbies can get Nuked, which means all their posts are wiped, which means their Trust relations will no longer show up in theymos' Trust data dumps. But: they still exist! Users without any posts can even reach DT2, which means they'll pop up on my DT-users overview like this:
  374. 878358: This user's information will be added next week. Until then, see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=878358;dt
  374. 878358: This user's information will be added next week. Until then, see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=878358;dt
In these cases, you'll have to check the Hierarchival Trust view (from an account that only includes DefaultTrust) to see which DT1-member included the user on DT2.

In naim027's case: the user was "only" Autobanned. That doesn't change anything for his Trust relations, and as far as I know Autobanned users can even still change their Trust list. Any banned user who can test this for me? Update: this is confirmed by email by (someone who claims to be) naim027.
7816  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: [TESTED IT] Minimum transaction value on: May 20, 2022, 07:12:54 AM
EDIT (2):
To complete the test, you should do the same to a Bech32 address...
Tested it with a TX to the address bc1qwpc320c70sz7mf7v6vyu5v7lzjv3hlsa23d8ew (from a nice bitcointalk user  Smiley )
Lol, I thought the dust transaction would have been related to this topic. If I get another dust inputs, I can use them to buy half a day VPN Smiley
7817  Other / Meta / Re: What happened to the forum plagiarism rules? on: May 19, 2022, 05:03:21 PM
However I have found his another plagiarism post and already report to moderator (I don't want to make another report on the "report plagiarism" thread since it can easily noticed by him and he will add the sources again)
Yep, that's how you get users with notification bots banned for plagiarism Smiley

Quote
he failed to follow LoyceV suggestion
It's not the first time he failed to fix his plagiarism.
7818  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented on: May 19, 2022, 04:31:50 PM
They should definitely create a new clearnet website since the old one no longer works, but there shouldn't be a link to the onion website. Instead they should link to this ANN thread and instruct users to check the OP where the correct onion link is posted. Or at least ask customers to verify that the posted onion link on the clearnet site is the same as the one that appears in the Bitcoin ANN. Just in case the clearnet version gets hacked and someone posts a link to a fake mixer. Someone could of course post a link to the wrong Bitcointalk thread or a completely different source, but I think the potential damages are smaller by linking to the ANN thread as well.
I don't think relying on a third-party website (Bitcointalk) as a primary source for the real URL is a good idea, and I'm not sure how many people are going to verify it. But I've seen confused users who weren't sure what the real URL is.

Wtf?! I don't understand how google can do this, unless they are already operated only by robots!
Probably for the same reason as keeping multiple phishing sites on top of the first search page: they don't care.
7819  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Writing down seed phrase: printer ink or pen ink ? on: May 19, 2022, 04:16:19 PM
why would a diary be any safer than a piece of paper? ~ if anyone ever finds your diary, there will be no doubt that it's something to read through.
I'd have to be really bored to read diaries, and for sure wouldn't expect to find money in there. I can imagine it works to "hide in plain sight". Let's say you have 100 pages like this:
Quote
But I must explain to you how all this mistaken idea of denouncing pleasure and praising pain was born and I will give you a complete account of the system, and expound the actual teachings of the great explorer of the truth, the master-builder of human happiness. No one rejects, dislikes, or avoids pleasure itself, because it is pleasure, but because those who do not know how to pursue pleasure rationally encounter consequences that are extremely painful. Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure? On the other hand, we denounce with righteous indignation and dislike men who are so beguiled and demoralized by the charms of pleasure of the moment, so blinded by desire, that they cannot foresee the pain and trouble that are bound to ensue; and equal blame belongs to those who fail in their duty through weakness of will, which is the same as saying through shrinking from toil and pain. These cases are perfectly simple and easy to distinguish. In a free hour, when our power of choice is untrammelled and when nothing prevents our being able to do what we like best, every pleasure is to be welcomed and every pain avoided. But in certain circumstances and owing to the claims of duty or the obligations of business it will frequently occur that pleasures have to be repudiated and annoyances accepted. The wise man therefore always holds in these matters to this principle of selection: he rejects pleasures to secure other greater pleasures, or else he endures pains to avoid worse pains. But I must explain to you how all this mistaken idea of denouncing pleasure and praising pain was born and I will give you a complete account of the system, and expound the actual teachings of the great explorer of the truth, the master-builder of human happiness. No one rejects, dislikes, or avoids pleasure itself, because it is pleasure, but because those who do not know how to pursue pleasure rationally encounter consequences that are extremely painful. Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure? On the other hand, we denounce with righteous indignation and dislike men who are so beguiled and demoralized by the charms of pleasure of the moment, so blinded by desire, that they cannot foresee the pain and trouble that are bound to ensue; and equal blame belongs to those who fail in their duty through weakness of will, which is the same as saying through shrinking from toil and pain. These cases are perfectly simple and easy to distinguish. In a free hour, when our power of choice is untrammelled and when nothing prevents our being able to do what we like best, every pleasure is to be welcomed and every pain avoided. But in certain circumstances and owing to the claims of duty or the obligations of business it will frequently occur that pleasures have to be repudiated and annoyances accepted. The wise man therefore always holds in these matters to this principle of selection: he rejects pleasures to secure other greater pleasures, or else he endures pains to avoid worse pains. But I must explain to you how all this mistaken idea of denouncing pleasure and praising pain was born and I will give you a complete account of the system, and expound the actual teachings of the great explorer of the truth, the master-builder of human happiness. No one rejects, dislikes, or avoids pleasure itself, because it is pleasure, but because those who do not know how to pursue pleasure rationally encounter consequences that are extremely painful. Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure? On the other hand, we denounce with righteous indignation and dislike men who are so beguiled and demoralized by the charms of pleasure of the moment, so blinded by desire, that they cannot foresee the pain and trouble that are bound to ensue; and equal blame belongs to those who fail in their duty through weakness of will, which is the same as saying through shrinking from toil and pain. These cases are perfectly simple and easy to distinguish. In a free hour, when our power of choice is untrammelled and when nothing prevents our being able to do what we like best, every pleasure is to be welcomed and every pain avoided. But in certain circumstances and owing to the claims of duty or the obligations of business it will frequently occur that pleasures have to be repudiated and annoyances accepted. The wise man therefore always holds in these matters to this principle of selection: he rejects pleasures to secure other greater pleasures, or else he endures pains to avoid worse pains. But I must explain to you how all this mistaken idea of denouncing pleasure and praising pain was born and I will give you a complete account of the system, and expound the actual teachings of the great explorer of the truth, the master-builder of human happiness. No one rejects, dislikes, or avoids pleasure itself, because it is pleasure, but because those who do not know how to pursue pleasure rationally encounter consequences that are extremely painful. Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure? On the other hand, we denounce with righteous indignation and dislike men who are so beguiled and demoralized by the charms of pleasure of the moment, so blinded by desire, that they cannot foresee the pain and trouble that are bound to ensue; and equal blame belongs to those who fail in their duty through weakness of will, which is the same as saying through shrinking from toil and pain. These cases are perfectly simple and easy to distinguish. In a free hour, when our power of choice is untrammelled and when nothing prevents our being able to do what we like best, every pleasure is to be welcomed and every pain avoided. But in certain circumstances and owing to the claims of duty or the obligations of business it will frequently occur that pleasures have to be repudiated and annoyances accepted. The wise man therefore always holds in these matters to this principle of selection: he rejects pleasures to secure other greater pleasures, or else he endures pains to avoid worse pains. Blanket air setup scrap feature actress prison bitter cash torch vacant valley. But I must explain to you how all this mistaken idea of denouncing pleasure and praising pain was born and I will give you a complete account of the system, and expound the actual teachings of the great explorer of the truth, the master-builder of human happiness. No one rejects, dislikes, or avoids pleasure itself, because it is pleasure, but because those who do not know how to pursue pleasure rationally encounter consequences that are extremely painful. Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure? On the other hand, we denounce with righteous indignation and dislike men who are so beguiled and demoralized by the charms of pleasure of the moment, so blinded by desire, that they cannot foresee the pain and trouble that are bound to ensue; and equal blame belongs to those who fail in their duty through weakness of will, which is the same as saying through shrinking from toil and pain. These cases are perfectly simple and easy to distinguish. In a free hour, when our power of choice is untrammelled and when nothing prevents our being able to do what we like best, every pleasure is to be welcomed and every pain avoided. But in certain circumstances and owing to the claims of duty or the obligations of business it will frequently occur that pleasures have to be repudiated and annoyances accepted. The wise man therefore always holds in these matters to this principle of selection: he rejects pleasures to secure other greater pleasures, or else he endures pains to avoid worse pains.But I must explain to you how all this mistaken idea of denouncing pleasure and praising pain was born and I will give you a complete account of the system, and expound the actual teachings of the great explorer of the truth, the master-builder of human happiness. No one rejects, dislikes, or avoids pleasure itself, because it is pleasure, but because those who do not know how to pursue pleasure rationally encounter consequences that are extremely painful. Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure? On the other hand, we denounce with righteous indignation and dislike men who are so beguiled and demoralized by the charms of pleasure of the moment, so blinded by desire, that they cannot foresee the pain and trouble that are bound to ensue; and equal blame belongs to those who fail in their duty through weakness of will, which is the same as saying through shrinking from toil and pain. These cases are perfectly simple and easy to distinguish. In a free hour, when our power of choice is untrammelled and when nothing prevents our being able to do what we like best, every pleasure is to be welcomed and every pain avoided. But in certain circumstances and owing to the claims of duty or the obligations of business it will frequently occur that pleasures have to be repudiated
(quote taken from blindtextgenerator.com with 12 added seed words from IanColeman)

If you don't know what you're looking for, you're going to have to read through 100 pages of (potentially) terrible handwriting. If you don't even know there's a seed phrase in it, I'd say it could be safer than a piece of paper with 12 words.
7820  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] bitaddress.org Safe JavaScript Bitcoin address/private key on: May 19, 2022, 03:28:16 PM
A paper wallet can be traded as bitcoin, and hold its value as bitcoin until redeemed.
I've done that, but it only works with people you trust. It's the classic: "not your keys, not your coins" problem where you can't ever be sure you're the only owner.

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The objective is tradable BitCheques with the private key accessible only to the holder.
My point is: the holder can't possibly be sure he's the only one with access.

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Requiring 2 of 3 signatures to redeem them (the holder, the issuer, the arbitrator selected by both) is another possibility.
Nope, it doesn't solve it. You want the paper wallet to be tradable, but now know for sure the issuer and the arbitrator (selected by someone else!) can take your funds.

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Or the issuer could escrow the BitCheques up to the maximum amount on the BitCheque for a limited time - governed by an escrowed smart contract - at which point another BitCheque could be issued if any doubt remains.
"Smart contracts" usually mean nobody understands the details.



On the Collectibles board, Casascius physical Bitcoins are often sold. The creator was (and is) highly trusted, but fake coins are used to scam people. Once it's something physical, counterfeiting becomes a problem again.
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