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81  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What if Bitcoin was a currency? on: March 26, 2014, 11:35:02 PM
I mean according to the IRS.

As opposed to being considered property?  Well, if Bitcoin were a currency under US law, it'd be comparable to the Euro.  Paying employees in foreign currencies, such as the Euro, within the United States carries different taxation rules than property, so the taxes (in general) would be higher than it is for property.
82  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Broadcasting the Blockchain on: March 26, 2014, 09:13:18 PM
You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.

So, how do you know that you missed a needed block?

Double/tripple/etc broadcasting does not solve the problem. When is the block repeated? 8 hours later? What if you are off the grid for 24 hours, or just happen to be off when the rebroadcast occurs. The issue is not "unlikely" the issue is: the system is not 100% guaranteed.

You can retransmit blocks with decreasing frequency as they get older. If you miss recent blocks, wait a little while and you get another copy. If you missed old blocks, you may have to wait a long time to get them, but you will eventually get them.

With the 'naked block' protocol being considered, you don't even need this much.  Currently, all full clients require all the data in order to completely check every block for validity, but a "light client" doesn't require this kind of certainty.  Since it's unlikely that clients receiving updates via this method would be mining, complete blocks are not necessary.  What is necessary is a complete block header chain, which only weighs in at 4 mb per year; and the merkle tree for any blocks that contain transactions that concern the client itself.  While it would be ideal to broadcast those merkle trees with the block header (i.e. the naked block, all except the actual transactions) it would be profoundly silly to broadcast every single transaction complete.

How do you know who is using the service, if it is broadcast?  Sure you could require that clients register with the head end, but given the original claim (which I have not verified) that broadcasting the entire block chain can be done at 2400 baud,


The entire block header chain can be broadcast at 2400 baud, and individual clients can transact at 2400 baud.  This isn't remotely the same as participating in the bitcoin network as a full peer, and I'm pretty sure no one has claimed this.
83  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Broadcasting the Blockchain on: March 26, 2014, 08:55:39 PM
You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.

So, how do you know that you missed a needed block?

Double/tripple/etc broadcasting does not solve the problem. When is the block repeated? 8 hours later? What if you are off the grid for 24 hours, or just happen to be off when the rebroadcast occurs. The issue is not "unlikely" the issue is: the system is not 100% guaranteed.

You can retransmit blocks with decreasing frequency as they get older. If you miss recent blocks, wait a little while and you get another copy. If you missed old blocks, you may have to wait a long time to get them, but you will eventually get them.

With the 'naked block' protocol being considered, you don't even need this much.  Currently, all full clients require all the data in order to completely check every block for validity, but a "light client" doesn't require this kind of certainty.  Since it's unlikely that clients receiving updates via this method would be mining, complete blocks are not necessary.  What is necessary is a complete block header chain, which only weighs in at 4 mb per year; and the merkle tree for any blocks that contain transactions that concern the client itself.  While it would be ideal to broadcast those merkle trees with the block header (i.e. the naked block, all except the actual transactions) it would be profoundly silly to broadcast every single transaction complete.
84  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Broadcasting the Blockchain on: March 26, 2014, 08:49:24 PM
Looks like someone is going to attempt this:

https://www.outernet.is/

Quote
By leveraging datacasting technology over a low-cost satellite constellation, Outernet is able to bypass censorship, ensure privacy, and offer a universally-accessible information service at no cost to global citizens. It's the modern version of shortwave radio, or BitTorrent from space.

Unfortunately, I can see some very real technical and legal issues with trying to do this as described.

First off, Wifi is possible in only two bands.  Since the higher N band is very new, and many smartphones still don't support it, I'm going to assume that the older B,G band is what they plan to use.  But there was a technical reason that this band was chosen at the time of development; namely that the B,G band was license free worldwide.  But why was that, since such license free technologies didn't really exist before Wifi itself?  Because the B,G band is the resonate frequency of hydrogen.  Thus, energy transmitted in this band is heavily attenuated by any water or hydrocarbons found in it's path, and was considered useless for distance communications.  This is still true, and has much to do with why Wifi is so poor at clear range.  It's also why this band is shared by every retail microwave that I know of, since food is pretty much all hydrocarbons and water.  While there wouldn't likely be much risk of hydrocarbons in the line of sight from low earth orbit, there would be much water.  On average, the Earth's atmosphere has enough water from space to sea level to equate to a 32 foot deep dive under the ocean's surface.  The amount of power that would be required to push through this and be receivable by common wifi hardware on the Earth's surface would be rediculous.

Second, there are also sound techincal reasons as to why wifi multicasting is not commonly used.  Mostly because wifi is a time-sharing technology that (generally) permits more than one unrelated connection to coexist on the same channel.  This is permitted because normal mode wifi requires that the hotspot 'listen' to it's own channel several times per second for other broadcasters trying to share the channel space.  This doesn't always work well, but it does work more often than most people realize.  However, a hotspot in space couldn't coordinate timesharing of all the hotspots in it's radio shadow even if it were possible for it to hear them.  In this case, the sat based signal would effectively 'jam' the chosen channel across the whole of it's radio shadow, and also be a violation of international communications treaties as a result.

Third, the licesne free broadcasting nature of the B,G band is limited to 'terrestrial' transmitters, and therefore doesn't apply to satillites at all.  A new treaty would be required to even permit such a license, since every country has max transmitter powers in the B,G band that would be WAY  what a sat would require.

While using the new N band would reduce the power requirements considerablely, the other two issues would still apply.  Perhaps a lower frequency license free band would work with modified FM band recievers, but I can't see a way around the international communications treaties regarding this.  Perhaps a broadcast stream that can switch around frequencies in the higher frequency shortwave bands would work, but the sat would have to be able to respond to the reflectivity of the ionosphere and changes in the critical frequency.  Most Shortwave broadcasters have to stay  the critical frequency so that their Earth bound transmitters can reflect their signal off of the F layer of the ionosphere, but what about a broadcaster in teh shortwave bands that deliberately stays above the critical frequency so that his signal is not reflected back into space?  Regardless, the data throughput woudl be low due to a narrow usable bandwidth and a particularly 'noisey' radio environment in those bands.


Wow, where to begin. First of all, B, G and N are protocols in the 802.11 family, There are two bands of frequency used by wifi 2.4 Ghz and 5.8Ghz, the latter being 802.11n only. Wifi technology relies on having two-way communication, it is not a broadcast type of comm. Satellite are sending a lot of power on microwave bands (6Ghz to 10Ghz) but your cellphone won't ever be able to rech the satellite. Second, the signal coming down is picked up by a dish, which is essentially focusing the RF energy. Your cellphone work because it is pushing it's signal to nearby towers, not a sat in space.

I suggest reading up on material from the American Radio Relay League, which has amazing content out there that explains all radiofrequency communications.

Enjoy

nirom

I wrote a rather lengthly response to this, but it  got destroyed by a database error.  In short, you're misreading my posts & I have long ago gone to their forum to correct their misconceptions about what is feasible.  They are now considering using Digital Radio Mondiale as their protocol, and I was thanked personally for that suggestion.
85  Other / Off-topic / Can a namecoin address point to a TOR hidden service? on: March 25, 2014, 08:13:10 PM
I really don't understand how namecoin works, so I'm asking this question openly.  If true, how can it be done?
86  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Walmart is planning to accept Flappycoin? on: March 25, 2014, 07:42:42 PM
Fuck Walmart! They are trying to take over the United States. (Only up to 2006 data)



You do realise that your little gif isn't an argument.  Starbucks' equivilent gif would make that look like shit.
87  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Can the Block Chain get too big and make Bitcoin unworkable? on: March 25, 2014, 04:11:45 AM
2 years later... Blockchain is too damn big

compared to what, exactly?

Well it's almost as big as my windows folder

Yeah, that's pretty big.
88  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Walmart is planning to accept Flappycoin? on: March 25, 2014, 04:01:11 AM
no-one knows what Litecoin is,

Huh, that's not one I've heard before.  BTW, what the hell is flappycoin?  
89  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Can the Block Chain get too big and make Bitcoin unworkable? on: March 25, 2014, 03:56:06 AM
2 years later... Blockchain is too damn big

compared to what, exactly?
90  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If Satoshi was a "genius", then why do BTC transactions take so long? on: March 24, 2014, 08:23:25 PM
i'm curious to how easy it is to double spends. is it something average joes can learn to do or does it take some college kid genius with glasses and shit to do it?

would it be safe to accept with 0 confirms with, lets say a $10k purschase as a company?

It depends on attacker hashing speed how likely a double spend can be done. Also it matter only if the company cannot simply cancel the order/purchase after doublespend happens (this is know within one hour)

The hashing speed of an attacker, if any, is irrelevent for the double spend attack.  You're thinking of something different.
91  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If Satoshi was a "genius", then why do BTC transactions take so long? on: March 24, 2014, 08:22:17 PM
i'm curious to how easy it is to double spends. is it something average joes can learn to do or does it take some college kid genius with glasses and shit to do it?

would it be safe to accept with 0 confirms with, lets say a $10k purschase as a company?

It's not easy.  In fact, it's never been provabley be done in the wild.  It's entirely theoretical.

A better question is:  If you had a really good coder build you a wallet client that was specifically designed to do double spending,
what percentage of the time would it work to create a zero confirmation transaction, without any "outside assistance" (other nodes coordinating in the attack etc)

This is unknowable, but considering that the issue about acceptance of zero confirm transactions is a meatspace issue primarily, it'd still be quite a trick for a hacked android client to produce two competing transactions at the exact same moment without Wal-Mart's bitcoin service noticing and denying the transaction.  Theoretically, the best chance you can have with a double spend attack is 50%, but that assmues that both the attacker and the vendor have equal access to the p2p network (which is unlikely in any event) and that the vendor hasn't taken steps to reduce his exposure (which is possible today, but would become as rare as hen's teeth a week after the public finds out that a true double spend attack was accoplished against a vendor).
92  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If Satoshi was a "genius", then why do BTC transactions take so long? on: March 24, 2014, 06:03:13 PM
i'm curious to how easy it is to double spends. is it something average joes can learn to do or does it take some college kid genius with glasses and shit to do it?

would it be safe to accept with 0 confirms with, lets say a $10k purschase as a company?

It's not easy.  In fact, it's never been provabley be done in the wild.  It's entirely theoretical.
93  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If Satoshi was a "genius", then why do BTC transactions take so long? on: March 21, 2014, 09:27:51 PM
Also, even a 1 minute delay would be too long to wait in many situations. Especially as that would be the average and some confirmations would take longer. When I'm paying by credit card at a supermarket, if it takes as much as 10 seconds it annoys me. When I've finished and paid I don't want to hang around, waiting. So faster confirmation times don't really help unless they are a lot faster, like 50 times faster.

(I don't know whether Satoshi made this point, and don't much care.)

i agree. why we stay with a bitcoin if other coins are quicker and even safer. Nextcoin is faster than Litecoin. pos coins , they seem more eficient to me.

Good luck with that.
94  Economy / Goods / Re: Come in and Trade Ammo or Talk about Guns! on: March 21, 2014, 07:04:53 PM

Farthest I have shot mine was 365 yards.

I own a Mosin Nagant 1890 that I could once put into a one foot wide target at around 700 yards using the original open sights.  I doubt that I could do it on purpose today though, old eyes and all that.  The rifle is willing but the eyesight is weak.  I bought it as a surplus rifle for about $60 about a year after the collapse of the Soviet Union.  The things still looks like someone dropped it and kicked it around a bit before putting it into the crate.  That thing is a hammer, it can bruise my shoulder in the first shot fired, and I actually do know how to shoot it.
95  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin & PoW is a waste of energy & destroys nature on: March 21, 2014, 06:56:34 PM
again :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=485649.msg5818497#msg5818497

Mining was supposed to grant decentralisation, thus making Bitcoin a trustless system. Without decentralisation, the system cannot be trusted and all the coins worth zero. Spending energy on a flawed system is indeed a waste.

This is not trolling. Serious question. How do you fix this ?


You simply wait.  The bitcoin market must mature, and as it does, the block reward will decline.  As the block reward declines, the cost/benefit ratio for mining will change.  As it stands right now, the energy requirements for securing this rather small payment system are far lower than just the energy & manpower costs of securing the payment systems centered around the US dollar.  Sure, Visa doesn't use nearly the electricity that Bitcoin does for it's own servers; but overall the energy required to move armored cars, build and power banks & vaults, or even just the environmental control systems for the banks & buildings far exceed what bitcoin consumes today.  There is no reason to assume that the energy consumed per user or per transaction should increase at the network matures, even if the absolute amount of energy consumed continues to rise for some time.  If Bitcoin replaces the need for even a minority of these bank branch buildings and skyscrapers, Bitcoin's energy cost/benefit ratio will be a huge improvement to what already exists.
96  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: What's the point of lower block targets? on: March 21, 2014, 05:26:21 AM
Faster confirms.


~BCX~
The point being? I'm seeing no real purpose of confirms other than what I've said before? Transactions are always going to be included in the blockchain regardless if they originate in an orphan block and double spends have very rarely been able to be done.

Some people believe that there is some kind of advantage to having a much shorter block interval.  Mathmatically speaking, there is none.
97  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If Satoshi was a "genius", then why do BTC transactions take so long? on: March 20, 2014, 11:36:09 PM
I Love BTC, but any honest look has to reveal that the transactions take WAY to long.


Transactions average 1.4 seconds from anywhere to anywhere.  Transaction clearing is what blocks are doing.  Transaction clearance for credit cards take between 30 and 45 days.

Quote

Did Satoshi ever comment on why he used ~10 minutes per block and/or did he consider a much lower number?

Yes he did.  He chose the 10 minute interval because it was a long enough period to prevent orphaned blocks, most of the time, due to more than one node discovering a block solution within the time period it takes to propagate a block from one edge of the network to the other.  He was assuming that, in a future that Bitcoin was wildly successful, blocks would be very large data sets and the p2p network would be very large; both contributing to network delays that might extend the time for a block to propogate from edge to edge for up to a whole minute.  Therefore, in order to limit the risk of orphaned blocks (and the blockchain splits that often accompany them) the target interval had to be several times longer than the worst case scenario for block propogation delays.  He also wanted the interval to fit neatly into human time cycles for our mental convience.  He could have done a 6 min block interval, for 10 per hour, but he was concerned that wouldn't be enough.  His fears seem correct, because even with the 10 minute interval we average about 1.5% of blocks released onto the network are orphaned.  A 6 minute interval would make that much worse, and 2 minute interval would make that rate simply awful.


The more I learn about Bitcoin, the more amazed I am by Satoshi's forward thinking.

I've said many time before, that Satoshi (if only one person) was a polymath.  If you look deep into how bitcoin works, there are so many moving parts that just mesh so well and interlock, it seems so improbable that anyone could have gotten this all right the first try, but that's what happened.  The system is so elegant, and subtle in so many ways.  Many of these alt-coins don't recognize these subtle metrics, and assume that too many things are simply arbitrary.  I've found that there are few things that were arbitrary about bitcoin.
98  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin & PoW is a waste of energy & destroys nature on: March 20, 2014, 10:53:11 PM
Quote
Energy costs of mining BTC appear to be a minor issue to me.

How can high costs of energy be a minor issue when it is easily eliminated by using PoS?

PoS doesn't really work.  It's subject to a trusted node being hacked, or otherwise turning opprotunisticly malicious.  PoW doesn't have that problem, and that is part of the point of it all, because it's truely trustless.  PoS cannot be trustless.
99  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin & PoW is a waste of energy & destroys nature on: March 20, 2014, 10:51:02 PM

Mining is centralisation through pools and specialised hardware.



That too. Great point.

Maybe if it were true, but it's not.
100  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If Satoshi was a "genius", then why do BTC transactions take so long? on: March 20, 2014, 09:11:23 PM
Also, even a 1 minute delay would be too long to wait in many situations. Especially as that would be the average and some confirmations would take longer. When I'm paying by credit card at a supermarket, if it takes as much as 10 seconds it annoys me. When I've finished and paid I don't want to hang around, waiting. So faster confirmation times don't really help unless they are a lot faster, like 50 times faster.

(I don't know whether Satoshi made this point, and don't much care.)

I still don't understand why some people don't get it.

Just like you pay dollars with your credit card at the supermarket you will be paying with BTC with the same transaction time.
The "intermediary"  will confirm you have enough coins in your account and make the transaction.
The merchant will ONLY have to wait 10 minutes to get his coins.

Simple.

 

And with Bitcoin, the intermediary can be the vendor himself, so they don't have to pay Visa to do that for them.  If Wal-Mart accepted bitcoins at the counter, they could manage transaction validity checks just fine without hiring some outside contractor.
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