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821  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: About block size limit and transactions fees on: August 12, 2021, 05:53:02 PM
As you mentioned earlier..

Quote
The issue surrounding block size has really been discussed over and over again and I doubt we would reach a new conclusion by doing it again.

Unless the block size limit is decided at the protocol level we will have to have this debate over and over again! By having a self-regulated system we wouldn't have that problem. So what is your solution?

I'll just bring some adjustments to mine;

new block size limit = previous block size limit + (current total fee - previous total fee)
                                                                                           current avg fee              

I know this calculation may not be very accurate but that's a starting point. I don't think we should forbid people from owning BTC because some miners aren't able to keep up with the demand.  
I've highlighted the constraints of the network with a larger block size and why a block size that is excessively large isn't favorable for the network. I'm not concerned about your algorithm, I'm concerned about whether you think it is okay for the so called self-regulated system to regulate the block size such that it can potentially take up to minutes to propagate across the network.

Do you think the point of the block size we have today is to introduce scarcity into the block or is it ensure that the blocks are appropriately sized and thereby preventing any issues, pertaining to the security of the network or it's resources? Your self-regulated system is not going to work if it can have the potential to make the network excessively centralized or insecure. There is a very good reason why most of Bitcoin's derivatives don't have a dynamic or an unlimited block size (for which a dynamic block size without any hard cap can also be considered as an unlimited block size).

Edit: If you think that it is fine for a dynamic block size without any upperlimits, then I rest my case. I don't have anything to add on ontop of what I've mentioned and I'm not a huge proponent of increasing it to meet a level that could be compared to the TPS of a mass adoption.
822  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin being decentralised an illusion? on: August 12, 2021, 10:05:19 AM
There is no such thing as complete decentralization, sorry to burst your bubble. You can only achieve complete decentralization if every user of Bitcoin is mining by themselves, ie. 1 CPU 1 Vote. That has never been the case for anything, because you cannot stop people from expending more resources into mining. There was a sharp drop in difficulty but the est. network hashrate has been rising for the past few weeks. People moving their operations out of China is more of a precautionary measure; China banned Bitcoin mining but it also doesn't mean it can be done overnight.

The crackdown did not cripple Bitcoin at all, the network was still running smoothly. It is fine for a certain degree of centralization so long as no single entity are able to dominate and control Bitcoin, which is still true.
823  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Offline Transaction vs hardware wallet, which is safest? on: August 12, 2021, 09:54:12 AM
May be one day i will become ''tech guy" and read the code myself and how trezor actually works. And i will get the answer that why inserting trezor on internet cafe is same as safe as signing an offline transaction on a clean always offline pc in an airgaped room.
It shouldn't be impossible to read the code; you only have to find out if Trezor, at any point will communicate the seed through the USB interface. If it doesn't, then you should be safe.

I don't think it is a problem with our current technology. HW wallets are designed to keep your seeds safe and the only reason why it would ever become unsafe is if the seed is revealed through a zero-day vulnerability; ie. design oversight. Obviously, airgaps can be compromised and it is also possible for zero day exploits to appear.
824  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: About block size limit and transactions fees on: August 12, 2021, 09:50:30 AM
The miners are the ones securing the network and I think most of them can easily afford to buy more storage/bandwith. In this regard, less people running a full node isn't really a threat...
It would be still ideal for a significant portion of the users to have the capabilities to run a full node. Relying on someone else for validation isn't really a good idea, and yes, I did agree that the full node numbers would probably dwindle in the future.
new block size limit = previous block size limit x current avg fee / previous avg fee

We know that the avg fee depends on the amount of transactions that are waiting to be confirmed AND the block size limit, the demand for block space shouldn't change much in the short term.
Do you think we should cap the block size with your variable block size scheme? You do realize that an increase in block size or transactions per block will inevitably result in the blocks being propagated through the network slowly or a far slower validation. This makes it unsuitable for smaller miners to be mining and will have to be directly connected to at least half of the network to achieve a lower stale rate. There is a reason why the blocks were capped at 1MB, and that any scheme should strive for a reasonable block size that doesn't compromise the security of Bitcoin. An increase in the stale rates also results in a decrease in the perceived security, as there can be multiple conflicting blocks at the same height.

I don't disagree that we need a block size increase. What I'm thinking of is a sustainable block size increase that balances the tradeoffs to the benefits.
825  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: About block size limit and transactions fees on: August 12, 2021, 04:07:00 AM
I get your point but as franky1 pointed out it may not be worth the hassle of running a full node if you do not make a lot of transactions, you may in this case use some third party services to verify your transactions. If you do make a lot of transactions then you could as well pay a lower fee on your transactions and spend more money on your storage/bandwith. I want to emphasize the fact that the cost for a full node can be shared between multiple persons, however the cost of a transaction can hardly be shared so transaction fees may have a bigger impact on centralization than the cost of running a full node.

That said, I just verified the avg transaction value on https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/. It says it was approx. 71,125USD in the last 24h, the avg transaction fee was 2.44USD. For now I think your proposal makes more sense...
I'm far more concerned about the security of the network being impacted, instead of the issue surrounding the costs of a full nodes. In this day and age, most people simply wouldn't opt for a full node as their daily driver unless they're interested in Bitcoin. Most people wouldn't run a node, no matter how much money they can save simply because it is time consuming and not very rewarding.

The issue surrounding block size has really been discussed over and over again and I doubt we would reach a new conclusion by doing it again. Again, since this issue brings us to whether we scale on-chain or second layer, it doesn't make much sense to discuss it on this thread. I prefer the latter, 100MB blocks isn't really desirable for the near future.
826  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: About block size limit and transactions fees on: August 11, 2021, 02:37:32 PM
I'd like to remind you that any miner with a lot of hashrate can inflate the fees by choosing to not pick the transactions that pay a low fee. It is actually easier for a miner to do that with an inelasic supply, if the supply was elastic then inflating the fees would also increase the block size limit which would ultimately reduce the fees (it would then be pointless to inflate the fees in the first place).
Hmm, okay I understand your argument on this.
I see but what factor would you take into account to calculate the block size limit? I believe bitcoin can only survive with on chain scaling but that's another topic...
The ideal block size should be something that still ensures that the network is sufficiently secure. It makes no sense for us to implement a dynamic size, where the size gets inflated to unrealistic limits at times just to accommodate the extra transactions. It would be far better for us to determine the specific and appropriate block size from the on-start because there isn't any downsides to that. If the demand isn't enough, then the blocks would naturally be smaller.
827  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this correct concerning BIP39 seeds? on: August 11, 2021, 02:22:20 AM
Even in electrum, first four letters to each word will give you each full word.
Electrum inherits the word list from BIP39. While the generation is not done in the same way, the fact that they have the same word list will result in them meeting the criteria set forth in the BIP.
828  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this correct concerning BIP39 seeds? on: August 10, 2021, 11:22:07 PM
Assuming that the way the seed is generated is compliant with BIP39 and uses that word list. BIP39 states:

- the wordlist is created in such a way that it's enough to type the first four letters to unambiguously identify the word

The wordlist within the BIP fulfills this criteria.
829  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin decision making on: August 10, 2021, 11:15:03 PM
There is more to this, can you please explain how btc will crash to zero if there is a successful 51% attack?
I doubt it would crash to zero. The price would probably crash and bring down the rest of the cryptos as well. The network is likely to fork and change the algorithm as there exist an adversary which controls the majority of the network hashrate. There is a potential for SHA256D coins to change their algorithms pre-emptively which would render all of their ASICs useless.
830  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Can bitcoin 0.1.0 code still interact with the blockchain? on: August 10, 2021, 04:33:29 PM
I also think the original (0.1.0) version used a public key for identifying who funds were being sent to (making it much bigger than just using a hash of the key)
To be specific, it's uncompressed public key which barely used these days.
As well as the ripemd160 hash that also gets used which probably means the address is quite a lot smaller than an uncompressed public key.
I think there was a pay to IP option at some point too that got removed (it had quite a lot of problems associated with it - especially since communcations weren't encrypted).
Just to clarify. P2PKH or the v1 Bitcoin addresses has been around since the initial release. It is just that the mining interface and the pay to IP are both using P2PK but I doubt it is really of any concern since no one uses them anymore.
831  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto should have created Litecoin with the Bitcoin name on: August 10, 2021, 04:11:13 PM
So basically, the point is that you believe Satoshi should've decreased the block time while increasing the maximum supply.

Going by the economics of a currency, there is no problem with the supply because it is divisible, and thus we wouldn't run into an extreme shortage of the currency and making it excessively scarce and unsuitable for normal payments. As with the block intervals, it was done with a compromise, to try to keep orphan rates low while being sufficiently fast. At that time, it would've been a fairly reasonable assumption to make.
832  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Offline Transaction vs hardware wallet, which is safest? on: August 10, 2021, 02:19:02 PM
I would lean towards a Trezor, or hardware wallets in general. The main point of a hardware wallet (and also your air-gapped wallet) is to protect yourself against a malware attack. That is by far the greatest threat to Bitcoin users. Hardware wallets are specifically programmed to not reveal your seeds/private keys using the MCU and thus any communication should be sanitized and will make it difficult to compromise as compared to an air-gapped wallet.

Loads of users do not know how to properly setup an air-gapped wallet, comparatively, hardware wallets are more suitable for the general userbase as compared to an air-gapped wallet. If you'd like, HW wallets like ColdCard has an SD card feature which allows you essentially achieve an airgap as well.
833  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: About block size limit and transactions fees on: August 10, 2021, 02:14:20 PM
So what I was trying to say is 10 persons sharing the same computer is more decentralized than thousands of people using the same server. I think the majority of the community would agree with that.
Correct.
I'm still not convinced, what is your vision?
I'm against a dynamic block size because it fails to take into account the possibility of the miners intentionally colluding and manipulating the fee market, by either introducing scarcity or otherwise intentionally gaming the block size. Problem with dynamic block size is that it is difficult to accurately provision higher block size for the correct period, due to time lag mainly as the sample size is way too huge.

I would rather just proposing a predictable block size increase, than to have a dynamic block size because it is honestly quite redundant. I don't expect Bitcoin to survive solely on on-chain transactions, that isn't feasible.

834  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Can bitcoin 0.1.0 code still interact with the blockchain? on: August 10, 2021, 02:06:42 AM
No. Bitcoin 0.1.0's peer discovery mechanism has been deprecated for quite awhile, namely the IRC. You won't be able to discover any peers to connect to when running 0.1.0. Tons of protocol changes since then as well.

There isn't any reason why you should attempt to run 0.1.0, other than to perhaps satisfy your curiosity.
835  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: About block size limit and transactions fees on: August 09, 2021, 12:21:01 PM
I'd rather have 10 persons running a full node and sharing the cost then have thousands of people using some third party services to make their transactions. As of now, the size of the block chain is controlled by a limit on the block size and by the level of difficulty to mine a block, the value of the second paramater can change depending on the network's hashrate but the value of the first paramater can't change because of the risk of a consensus problem. The system we have now benefits to speculators but does not benefit to the real users of the currency, if bitcoin isn't used as a medium of exchange then sooner or later the price of the coin will drop down to zero (or it will fall drastically to it's true value).
Unfortunately, that isn't what majority of the community wants. There is nothing wrong with increasing block size, but if you were to increase to that extent, then no one except a selected few can run a node because they are prohibitively expensive. Miners can only mine if they're fast enough, which would mean further centralization as they need to achieve the lowest latency possible to reduce orphans. Complete centralization of Bitcoin defeats the very purpose of it, and putting the control of it to a selected few only serves to discourage people from using it.

There is nothing wrong with increasing the block size to increase the on-chain capacity. However, if you want to achieve mass adoption and surpass that of the major banking systems, you can't do it without making it impossible for the average joe to run a node. There is no way this should ever happen, because we'll be at the mercy of whoever is running the few nodes.

I briefly read through the topic again. Are you still proposing a complicated dynamic block size as opposed to a simple and linear block size increase?
836  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What do you think is the relationship between Bitcoin and blockchain? on: August 09, 2021, 08:19:15 AM
B is correct. The idea of blockchain was conceived in the 90s, IIRC.

The concept of Bitcoin as a currency was also conceived around that time as well, though in a rather unrefined and abstract form. It wasn't until B-money proposed a similar concept then Satoshi creating Bitcoin as a currency which combines all those into one.
837  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: 51% Attack on: August 08, 2021, 02:43:06 AM
Obivously it would be noticed if the network grows over 20%+ within a short timeframe
The network hashrate won't grow because the rogue chain is mining alongside the honest chain but the chain isn't revealed until the attack has started and even then, it would be good for a single attack because precautions would be taken by the merchants or the stakeholders on the network.

It will only grow if the rogue entity mines on the honest chain aswell, before taking it offline but even then the growth will probably be gradual.
838  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Problem if I don't upgrade wallet on: August 07, 2021, 05:54:45 PM
There's no answer to your question.

It really depends on the purpose of the update; is it to fix a known bug, is it to fix a vulnerability, or is it to add new features? You have to read the changelog yourself, starting from the version that you're in to the latest version. You aren't really risking anything if it isn't done to patch a vulnerability but I would probably still advice people to just update it. There's no harm done.
839  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: Electrum Issue on: August 07, 2021, 03:07:21 PM
I have been running it for over 6 months and using it with COLD CARD and ELECTRUM - the network circle in the bottom right has always been the color blue. This indicates I am successfully connected to my node - or at least the umbrel site indicates so.

I unchecked the "select server automatically" and pasted the data from my umbrel node (I don't want to paste here for privacy concerns), but I pasted that in the area where it says "server." 

Then, under proxy I have selected TOR PROXY at 9050.
I assume this is done when you were using your Electrum? The blue bubble appears if you're connected over the proxy or Tor that is set within Electrum. If you did not specify the server before that, then the server would've been random.
Interestingly, that button for TOR PROXY had disappeared this morning, no idea why, but I couldnt connect at all. So I had to download this program called "homebrew" and then download TOR. Now that part is working again, but still constantly syncing.
Within Electrum?
I'll be honest, I dont know the difference between and "electrum server" and a full node.  I do not understand the difference b/w the TOR browswer and the TOR I was forced to download this morning.
An Electrum server is different from a full node. Electrum servers communicates differently from a full node, so you can't just specify any random node as your server. It has to be an Electrum server, so I'm assuming your umbrel supports it. Tor browsers are hardened browsers that is used to access the web using Tor while a Tor daemon doesn't necessarily include that.

What does it mean to "install Tor?" Why did the tor proxy tab at 9050 disappear? and then I have to dl tor?
You've always had to download Tor. Either Tor browser or Tor daemon, the only difference being the ports.
Why are the address for my node different on wasabi versus electrum?
Are you connecting to your node correctly?
What is the difference b/w an "electrum server" and my full node?
Electrum servers are designed to communicate with Electrum clients while full nodes do so with other full nodes.
840  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Public Verification of P2WSH Threshold Multi-Signature Addresses on: August 07, 2021, 01:17:58 PM
Your case seem very rare. You want to have a 4-of-6 multi-sig, but if 6 out of 6 have signed the transaction, you want it to be shown. A quick solution that comes in my mind is to create another 6-of-6 wallet (with the same xpub keys) and move the money from the 4-of-6 address to a 6-of-6's address. If you did that, then in the blockchain it'd be clear that all of the co-signers of the 6-of-6 address agree upon that transaction.
I think OP's point is for redundancy, in case of certain disagreements so at least 4 of 6 of the parties can agree on it and the approval of the final 2 isn't needed. Moving it to a 6-of-6 musig wouldn't make that much sense in comparison.

Wallets should probably discard excess signatures for obvious reasons, because it is quite rare for people to have to prove that all of the parties are in control of their keys. Would it be possible for you to just create 2 transactions, with one of the parties signing both TXes and the other parties being unique.
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