Two planes knocked down three buildings

The third building, which was not hit by a plane, was wtc7.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

http://wtc7.net/

A very flawed attempt to discredit 'conspiracy theorists' is at http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm

Two recent police news stories that don't seem to add up.

1) A celebrity goes to New York and gets jumped by cops, possibly due to a pigmentation issue. When cops realized they have just beat the shit out of a celebrity they quickly scour the internet for a lookalike photo and claim that it was a case of mistaken identity. Unfortunately the story hits the news and the cops get busted. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/australian-james-blake-lookalike-speaks-nypd-mess-article-1.2361143

2) Kentucky Trooper pulls over a guy for speeding and finds out he has a suspended license. Guy shoots cop. Not funny obviously.

But then the Kentucky cops claim the trooper was going to get the guy a hotel room instead of arresting him. Might be true. "Sir you were speeding and you don't have a drivers license. Let me contact dispatch and arrange a hotel room for you since you are a black man in Kentucky". http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3235649/Kentucky-trooper-31-trying-organize-hotel-room-disqualified-driver-pulled-middle-night-man-shot-dead.html

It might be that police are telling the truth in one or both cases. But it is doubtful.

added stories /

3) A few days ago there were reports that a police officer in Illinois was killed while chasing three people.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/significant-new-evidence-found-fox-lake-murder-article-1.2349900

Vast resources were spent hunting the supposed killers and so on.

Strangely, a former Chicago cop began calling investigators and demanding that they rule the death a suicide. He also called reporters and gave what the police called 'false' tips. He was arrested and charged with something http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ex-chicago-threatens-investigators-officer-death-article-1.2359379

Now, a day later cops are saying it might have been a suicide. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/evidence-mounting-suicide-illinois-officer-death-article-1.2362449

The evidence seems to be that the initial report the dead officer gave involving "chasing three suspects" was not credible. The evidence at the scene looked like suicide but police and various federal agencies decided instead to expend vast resources promoting a fiction that painted the dead man as a hero of some sort.

The resources spent on the charade, if that is what it turns out to be, were far beyond what police and federal agencies would ever use in the death of a 'regular' citizen. It appears that the police officer who had been making threats to investigators, Joseph A. Battaglia, heard from other 'law enforcers' what was going on and was so disgusted he tried to blow the whistle, and was charged with some crime.

Again, a dead person is not funny but you have to laugh at how incompetent the cops are at their daily games. Why don't they just start using their resources to do their job, instead of using them to keep themselves out of jail and put everyone else in?

There are a few different groups that Mazacoin serves.

1) Natives, of course. Like the originators of Mzc and other Americans who want their own currency.

2) Future looking people who are not especially materialistic but see the importance of currencies in a bigger picture. Like Mathgamain, Groggin, Signsguy and others I think.

3) More materialistic speculators who are interested in seeing a Native American economy flourish and are willing to use their coins to further that. Like me and you I guess.

4) Pure speculators. People who would buy puppy blood if the price was good.

The first two groups will decide the fate of Maza but people like us can offer ideas, and proof of stake is a good idea if any of the developers read this.

You are distorting things a little.

In most places educated people try to make sure that others know the difference between Zios and Jews. The only people who try to confuse that issue are Zios who want to extract capital from Jewish history. Zionism has tried to make huge profit, political and other, from the supposed blurry line between Jewish and Zio.

So start with facts. There have been a lot of Jews in a lot of Middle eastern countries for a long time. Zios encouraged an 'exodus' from other countries  beyond even that which was obviously caused  by the snatching of 'Palestinian' land.

Now that Zios have convinced a lot of less educated people that Israel is a 'Jewish' state, it is reasonable for people to consider the actions of Israel as "Jewish" actions. For example it is widely publicized in America every time an Israeli Jewish child is killed. 133 Israeli children have been killed since Sept 29, 2000. Most of their names have been in the U.S. press. At the same time 2061 Palestinian children were killed. Almost none of them mentioned in the U.S. press by name.

Obviously in countries like Pakistan and Jordan the media will report on Palestinians killed by "the Jewish state". Or would you rather call Israel something else?

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As for specific involvement by people representing Zio interests in 911, there is plenty. But even if you ignore it there is an abundance of evidence that neocons used 911 as a pretext for invading Iraq. Can you argue with that?  

http://fair.org/blog/2013/06/07/how-many-iraqis-died-in-the-iraq-war/
Is a distorted picture of Iraq given to Americans and Brits? Look at this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3233179/Entourage-star-Adrian-Grenier-receives-backlash-social-media-9-11-tribute.html and then read the comments below it. "The now-deleted post remembered the 2,996 Americans who died on September 11, 2001 It also paid tribute to the 1,455,590 innocent Iraqis who 'died during the US invasion for something they didn't do'". Honest to fucking goodness.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Yellowcake_forgery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0410.marshallrozen.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20080220144345/http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/10962352/iran_the_next_war

https://web.archive.org/web/20080129230229/http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTY2OTBhOTYzY2NhZTE3ZWM1MDc0ODA3Y2EyNzA3NTE=

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ledeen

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Should Iraqis be thanking us? https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
"Recent events
Sunday 13 September: 38 killed

Baghdad: 5 by IEDs, gunfire; 3 bodies.
Mosul: 30 executed.
Saturday 12 September: 78 killed.

Mosul: 50 executed.
Kirkuk: 1 by gunfire; 6 executed.
Shirqat: 5 executed.
Qayyarah: 3 executed.
Baghdad: 3 by gunfire, IED.
Daquq: 3 by IED.
Khalis: 2 by AED.
Baiji: 1 policeman by gunfire.
Baquba: 2 policemen by gunfire.
Tarmiya: 2 by IED. "

At least whoever did 911 was more competent than whoever arranged the crash at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmclgO6w0C0 barely.

There is more than just "a blog" indicating that at least one part of 911 was being monitored by people who considered themselves to be working "in Israel's interest". You cannot compare that high quality evidence with someone saying Kim Jong Il was involved based on no evidence.

The problem that arises is there are people who support Israel, Zios, who look at the evidence and instead of saying "cut the cancer" they say "gotta cover my buddies since the evidence is compelling".

This completely cancels the focus on the bigger picture i.e., that there is plenty of evidence that the leaders behind the scene were operating with motives that were not nationalistic nor religious etc. There was a visible a group of individuals across several ideologies. Each of these did seem to get some benefit to their narrow causes. But if a person looks at the groups involved this operation is not consistent with ideological motives.

Assume it was only extremist Muslims. That would explain some things but not others.

Assume it was only Americans in high offices who wanted "whatever". You can safely say some of these Americans would have been 'neocon' types and that would explain invading Iraq, which might have benefited Israel.

The problem is when 911 hit we invaded Afghanistan immediately. We did not invade Iraq until March 2003. Did neocons get some benefit from invading Afghanistan?

Really the only people who benefited from invading Afghanistan were those who stood to lose if the Taliban were successful in eliminating opium. In other words those who control the opium derivative trade. A strong case exists that this trade is controlled at the top by folks in the intelligence and military communities in America and Russia and Saudi Arabia.

What you have is a lot of evidence that 1) bin Laden etc were involved and 2) others in various places were involved.

If you only want to look at the evidence that bin Laden was involved then fine. Ignore the other evidence that is fine.

There may well be some people who say that it is only the fault of the airplanes and those people choose to ignore all of the evidence except for the fact of airplanes hitting.

The evidence is that a few of the people involved were associated with several governments including Israel prominently.

But in Israel if more than a few people knew about involvement by people in government it would be in the press and a lot of Israelis would be going after their own government for it.

Same in the U.S. and several other countries. There is a lot of evidence for involvement by high level people in the U.S. and Saudi govt. Research the activities of high level Saudis in the days before 911. But if there were more than a few people involved in any of those governments it would not be secret long. It is common in Israel for people to hear high level secret type stuff 'through the grapevine', but complicity in 911 is a different category and the gossip would not be contained by censors if it were based on fact.

What a person has to look for is some connection between all of the parties involved.

A huge amount of heroin is transshipped through Iran. In fact Iran confiscates more opium derivatives than any other country. The Saudis have some interest in the opium trade as it transits Iran since they are rivals in several ways. As for the interests of the other countries in the heroin trade search the internet.

Lame video now that I've watched it.

1) Absolutely nothing new in it.
2) Contains some obvious factual errors that only discredit 'truthers'.
etc

One day old already more than 40k views.

Great idea. Proof of stake would help a lot of ways.

A campaign to strengthen an independent Native economy has a lot of difficulties. "Giving" any new currency to anyone, from anywhere, will only inspire the person to sell the currency.

An effort by outsiders to promote Native businesses that use Native currencies, including Mazacoin, should include some motivation to keep the funds in the local currency rather than converting them straightaway to paper currency. Proof of stake would make MZC better than holding paper.

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Someone should form some way for outsiders to invest Mazacoin in new Native businesses and other projects.

Of course 911 isn't fixable. But identifying the individuals who planned it will discourage future such acts. The first step is to look at the evidence accurately and not through the lens of "Is a group I identify with involved and if so should I blow smoke for them?".

Fix what?

Holy shit batman.

Or whatever your name is.

The "clash of civilizations" stuff is a little too 1950s. People today are a little quicker.

Those who say that the same people who killed Kennedy, he was going to start putting the brakes on Vietnam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_Southeast_Asia did 911 may be on the right track.

,,,

From http://www.quora.com/Does-the-CIA-sell-drugs

"    ...I phoned the offices of a French aeronautics company for an interview with somebody named General Maurice Belleux. ... The general, it had turned out, had once been head of French espionage in Indochina. But the war was a long time ago, and he looked back with an academic dispassion to explain, carefully and patiently, how he had used the opium trade to finance his cash-strapped covert operations. His drug traffic had also stitched together an anti-Communist coalition that ran from Laotian hill tribes to Saigon's politicians, police, and gangsters. What happened, I asked, to his apparatus after the French quit Saigon in 1955. The general said that "your CIA" had taken over the whole thing, drugs included. A trip to Saigon, he advised, would confirm this information."

It kind of looks like "Western civilization" is built around the competition between Russian drug dealers and American drug dealers. They have the discipline to take a hit for discretion's sake, i.e., to maintain the appearances of ideologies running things.

That link goes to a video called "Cleaning your ears safely" from the Henry Ford Department of Otolaryngology.

Anyway there were military spokespeople on that day that said an f16 was sent up to deal with a second plane heading for the pentagon, i.e., flight 93 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-5Gks3MFww

Government is a  manufactured beast.

If it wasn't "our government" it would be "them".

So it's better.

There is no problem with Cheney taking responsibility for shooting down that jet. It is part of his job to take the flak for stuff like that.

There is a problem with nameless faceless bureaucrats saying "Let's pretend the jet did not get shot down. Let's pretend it crashed on its own".

As much as Cheney may not be an appropriate person for his job at the time, his logic is fine. Three jets had hit heavy populations. The quick response is to shoot the fourth jet.

Would someone argue that it should not have been shot down? That would be the intelligent discussion, not "whether" it was shot down.

The "debunking" has entirely depended on an "appeal to authority" fallacy. "I am an expert and I say xyz".

The "conspiracy" side has offered the same.

The problem here is that so many "mainstream" experts are on the "conspiracy" side.

Creating straw men to target, as you do with "they revert to irrefutable speculation..." only makes a person wonder why you are using deficient logic. Have there really been a lot of people whose 911 position is based on "US government is corrupt and benefitted from the event, therefore they must be responsible. You must be naive to think otherwise!"? Honestly? Are there really a lot of people using that argument, or are you trying to blow smoke?

There are lots of concrete pieces of evidence that each of the mentioned groups had something to do with 911. But instead of answering those questions you make the above absurd comment and answer it instead.

Were Muslims involved?
Many pieces of evidence say so, including the people observed boarding the planes as a loose group were identified.

Were Zios involved?
Many pieces of evidence say so, including some young people who said on a talk show that they had been sent to monitor the explosions.

Were U.S. government types involved?
Many pieces of evidence say so, including that in a very high security post crash scene numerous pieces of paper appeared on the ground that would have been in the hijackers pockets, suggesting not only that someone dropped them but that others deliberately ignored the absurdity of paper surviving almost undamaged while the body the paper was on did not.

No one has said that any particular theory is proven, and especially no one has offered as proof the simple fact of irrefutability, as you imply. But the "official story" has been refuted to the satisfaction of almost anyone who studies the evidence.

So at this point we have the following
1) The official story is not supported by evidence. You may support it, but the evidence does not.
2) There are numerous alternate theories, depending on the background of the person theorizing. The most popular are "The U.S. government did it" or "The Zios did it".
3) Again, there is plenty of evidence pointing at Zios and U.S. govt types. Too much evidence, as mentioned before.


As I've said previously, the evidence points to a hierarchy of motives.

At the top you have a group of individuals who have in common the heroin trade, a multi billion dollar business that comes with other benefits. These individuals are in governments and out. They belong to many nationalities, religions etc, but the top leaders are not nationalistic nor religious except in a strictly clannish way. It has always been like that in those industries.

One level lower you have people "using" the heroin trade for other motives. These are the leaders of the Muslim hijackers, the Zios, the second tier of "government types" involved etc. These people see the industry, i.e., heroin, as a tool to further some ideology which they frame as defensive.

One level lower than that, the true ideologues. The Muslim who wants to destroy the great satan. The Zio who wants to act on the best national motives. The U.S. govt stooge who understands that Jesus has some secret plan that justifies killing innocent people etc.


You are refering to the aircraft that went down in Pennsylvania. Everything about the downing is consistent with it having been hit by an air to air missile, and not consistent with a normal accidental crash.

Of course a pilot is not told on a daily basis t shoot down civilian planes. They aren't told "Whenever you see a suspicious airplane just shoot at it".

But on 9/11 there was obviously a group of hijacked planes crashing into major targets and your comment seems to be deliberately ignoring that context.

1) The evidence points to the involvement of Muslims, Zios, etc, not working in concert but each working with only part of the picture.

2) The Muslims involved had been in the U.S. for some time and several of them seem to have had their path smoothed by people in the U.S. government. Among other things some of them had received services and/or training at U.S. military facilities. The evidence seems to be that they were indeed "overenthusiastic" religiously, i.e. "radical", and had been lured into a situation where their patron was not who they thought. Maybe some Saudi told them "We have infiltrated the U.S. government so thoroughly that we can do xyz in America" and the Muslims involved believed they were really involved in a "strictly terror" plot.

3) The Zios involved clearly were one level above those Muslims. The Zios believed evidently that they were in control of the operation and were 'managing' the Muslims. The evidence though is that the Zios were being managed as well.

4) As for those in the U.S. government who seem to have been involved in the planning side, as opposed to merely complicit, they too seem to have been "managed".

5) It's an interesting psychological fact that the more motivated or enthusiastic a person is the more "manageable" they are. But a person who is completely without idealism, without motive etc is difficult to manage, except by force. The types of people who climb to the top of things like the heroin trade are much more qualified 'leaders' than those who climb to the top of more artificial, idealistic organizations, like modern militaries, ideological groups etc. In other words Muslim terrorists, Zios, U.S. uberpatriots etc are like children each screaming "I am king of the mountain", but there are others more clever who send these retarded children to do their practical dirty work.