Looks like a longer tube. How did they get the efficiency up?
Downclock and downvolt each chip. Nope. Its a new parallel powering layout which is simply more efficient. If I get a Prisma you'll be able to see it in the pictures. That may be true but it's also underclocked. The tubes were 8.3gh/s per chip and Prisma is 7.3gh/s. Where did you hear about this "parallel powering layout"? Downclocking the chips by 10% doesn't result in 25% power savings. The design was first done by XBTec on their Pacifics ( https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3874/14825302026_f8e55aca1f_o.jpg) which results in significantly lower power requirements by stringing the chips together. [Note their V1 didn't actually realise the power savings in the design due to other bottlenecks, but the V2 did]. This is the same 'technology' that friedcat has put on the Prisma to generate the power savings compared to the Tube. While I respect AM and your guides Dogie, I have to respectfully disagree - The math: 800(speed of the tube) X 240/270(ratio of clocks) X 2(ratio of chips per miner) = 1422 and because you have underclocked you can now lower the voltage resulting in some power savings. Come on man we've all done this with our GPUs; this is nothing different or special and nothing they couldn't have done right off the hop to give AM an edge. parallell powering layout my ASS. Who came up with this BS? |
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It's quiet at my house. I'm listening to the song of the wind in the trees.
A sweet song that's hard to find in the big city ;( |
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ok, please clarify who is playing dumb and who is dumb and not playing? Does it need clarifying? I'll try to simplify it even further if that's possible: Assuming EVERYONE needs to pay crippling import taxes = dumb Assuming EVERYONE needs to buy a $200/kw ATX psu instead of a server PSU = dumb Assuming you are a prophet and can predict the future difficulty growth = dumb Assuming difficulty will increase 15% constantly even though the average is ~13% and slowing = dumb I would agree on most of your points except I wouldn't use the adjective "dumb". Most people are going to look at it from their own point of view. Maybe we could state that our opinions pertain to our present location rather than making generalizations. The majority of would-be miners don't have the knowledge to use server power supplies and break-out boards and import duties, taxes and electricity costs are regional. I would argue your final point however. Friedcat has essentially declared economic war and intends to unleash cheap and numerous miners onto the market to pare down the competition. I don't think 15% or more sustained diff increase is unreasonable. The summer was an anomaly it should be discarded from your diff estimations (IMHO). |
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Hi everyone,
I've been lying low for while plus been busy with normal work etc, etc.
I see that nothing has changed here and KNC seem to be getting worse with their customer relations. Oh well what else is new...
Why I'm here is because I did receive tacking number for my Titan and UPS have called me to pay for customs, taxes and fees which amounts to a wopping $1320
Now what I'm thinking is if I ask KNC to re-invoice me for the Titan to a lower amount so I can reduce the Tax that I have to pay.
What do you guys think? You think KNC would comply and help me out?
I think this would be fair especially because the value of a 400MH/s Titan is now $6995 which works out to appoximately $17.49 per MH/s
So for a 300MH/s Titan 300 x 17.49 = $5247 which would reduce the Customs tax bill by a few hundred dollars
Am I making sense, you think KNC would do this?
Cheers
merv
I can't even get them to give an estimate of the date they will refund my canceled Neptune order. I would think you'd have better luck contesting the declared value with your customs broker and your government. |
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OMG what happened to the others? There's only one left? It seemed like only yesterday they were popular and now they're all gone ;( So sad... Lily Wood and the Prick feat. Robin Schulz - Prayer in C - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiore9Z5iUg |
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...
Been offering my service as a jurist to 2 users in the thread, but after i´ve sent my hourly rate they have vanished. Seems like the Titan customers is willing to take the risk instead of their cold hard cash back.  How about 10-15% in case of success ?! ..instead of asking for money up front....as non-trusted user in a forum where too much scams take place...  I charge 100 Euro / hour and no retainer fee. If you can find legal service cheaper in Scandinavia then go for it. I´m not asking for money up front, you can use a escrow service of any choice. Perhaps people are already fed up with scams. Do you come with a guarantee? I can´t guarantee any outcome, that would be irresponsible and unethical of me. The desired outcome heavily depends on if you´re European citizen or not. I´m confident KnC would rather process refunds than meet me in court thou I would have considered it but that cheese-eatin' grin at the end of each of your posts gives me the willies. Are European consumer protection laws applied differently based on country of origin? Seems odd. |
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...
Been offering my service as a jurist to 2 users in the thread, but after i´ve sent my hourly rate they have vanished. Seems like the Titan customers is willing to take the risk instead of their cold hard cash back. How about 10-15% in case of success ?! ..instead of asking for money up front....as non-trusted user in a forum where too much scams take place... I charge 100 Euro / hour and no retainer fee. If you can find legal service cheaper in Scandinavia then go for it. I´m not asking for money up front, you can use a escrow service of any choice. Perhaps people are already fed up with scams. Do you come with a guarantee? |
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You guys go on complaining about ROI. Meanwhile, i'll ROI in 100 days even if the difficulty reaches 50,000,000,000  .03 cents per kwh : ) already got all the PSU's and power for 2 MW. Bitch, you got nothing on me. I'm paying 2.5cents and free cooling due to cold weather. 5MW capability. Go big or go home bitches. ...And I'm sitting here on 10KW of testing capacity @ 13c. Yes but you are sitting in one of the best countries in the world in which to live  |
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It's easy to be the best when you set illogical limits. They are certainly the only company named Asicminer shipping at this efficiency ergo we're the best! (as far as companies named Asicminer) WHOO! What I mean is, who cares about shipping when all a company need do is SELL? This I have been wondering too. The fact RS hasn't been commenting too much could mean this is the case  Brief
ASICMiner Prisma is based on a proprietary X48 design for BE200. It greatly reduces power
consumption of the device per GH/s compared to the X24 design.
...
Power consumption: ~0.67 W/G board-wise. On-wall power consumption relies on PSU
efficiency. (typically 1050-1100 W per full device, 0.75-0.78 W/G)
Nice. I wonder how they managed to squeeze improve power efficiency by ~25% compared to the X24 design. But even though this further destroys the mining competition, it probably requires nerves of steel to continue investing in miners at this time. I'm also very impressed by this. Not only that they managed to squeeze so much power efficiency, but also the size of the device. Regarding efficiency: Do I understand correctly that 0.75 W/G puts the Prisma at the top in terms of efficiency among devices that are currently shipping? Is there any other company currently shipping devices with efficiency equal or greater to 0.75 W/G? |
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Brief
ASICMiner Prisma is based on a proprietary X48 design for BE200. It greatly reduces power
consumption of the device per GH/s compared to the X24 design.
...
Power consumption: ~0.67 W/G board-wise. On-wall power consumption relies on PSU
efficiency. (typically 1050-1100 W per full device, 0.75-0.78 W/G)
Nice. I wonder how they managed to squeeze improve power efficiency by ~25% compared to the X24 design. But even though this further destroys the mining competition, it probably requires nerves of steel to continue investing in miners at this time. I'm also very impressed by this. Not only that they managed to squeeze so much power efficiency, but also the size of the device. Regarding efficiency: Do I understand correctly that 0.75 W/G puts the Prisma at the top in terms of efficiency among devices that are currently shipping? Is there any other company currently shipping devices with efficiency equal or greater to 0.75 W/G? There is nothing so surprising about this design. They have simply down-clocked the chips and doubled the number per board. They could have done this in June and had the most efficient machine on the market but the chips were worth more at the time (at least that was the thinking) so it didn't make sense. Here's the math: 240MHz/270MHz(clock ratio or prisma to tube) * 800(1 Tube hash rate) * 2 (for the doubling of the chips) =1.4 TH/s With some extra cooling and a little know-how, you can run at 1.6+ THs with Tube-like effifciency. (NB over-clocking the proprietary design is not recommended as it could result in a damaged product) While I'm not impressed by the new design, I am immpressed with AMs ability to maximize the value of their product as computational difficulty rises. |
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http://se.linkedin.com/in/kurt667^ The fella who couldn't bring himself to tell KNC customers that the Titan firmware was crapped up 11 days after announcing 'Brace For Impact'. Customer service par excellence ! Avoid KNC. Based on that CV I'd say he's got one or two months left with KNC. Anyone get a refund lately? |
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Those 80's videos seemed much cooler back in the day |
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+100 @ philipma1957 I turned handles "outward" and added a fan, FINALLY got these Tubes to stop with the thermal runaway. Also +1 @ friedcat "they" handled the RMA on my burned up board, no additional costs. Gee, I can't see why you guys are having any thermal issues at stock clock speeds. My 3 have been running continuously at 2.4T in the quite warm (90F+) mining area of my basement. With 1 fan, though the handles are pointing outwards. I hate to mention this, I'm only trying to help, but you guys are peeling the plastic from both sides of the thermal pads before use???  I had to ask since my three have been amazingly reliable and robust so far... The air coming out the center is as hot as a BIG blow dryer, and the chips are too hot to touch, so I'm wondering about longevity, but as long as they hash for six months I'm fine. I remember a discussion about the fan arrangement and whether it should push or pull air through the tube. I set mine up to push since I didn't want the fan and it's bearings to heat up because I thought that would cause flow issues. I have had no problems with the stock fan in a push config at clock of 280 and my 2 tubes are getting 1.7 T more like 1.68 T. I've got 2 with fans arranged as pull, clocked @ 290 Mhz in a quite warm 32*C+ basement with a bunch of other miners. Getting the same speed as you on average, going to try 280 see if I get any better. You're running in a lot warmer environment that I. One of these in in my basement ~23C and one upstairs ~ 25C   |
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In the current mining climate (declining BTC value, exponentially increasing difficulty, fierce competition) it is hard enough for an ASIC manufacturer to survive, let alone thrive.
I would not expect anything in terms of dividends. Gen2 was vaporware and Gen3 a bit of a dud due to a design mistake that significantly increased power consumption. I think the best we can hope for is for friedcat to roll over any earnings from Gen3 to accelerate and perfect development of Gen4. Shareholders looking for short term gains will be disappointed. In the long run, I think AM is still well positioned to come out on top and worth the risk of holding shares.
I also believe that this is the way to go! The Bitcoin price is just too low at the moment, even ROCKMINER decided to postpone their 2 PH/s mining operation.... AM just doesn't seem to have enough of a margin to spend the income as dividends. I think the best thing to do would be to order massive amounts of gen 4 chips ASAP. That was exactly their policy with gen 3. How did that work out? Bottom line, if they aren't paying dividends, share price will slide and slide. There is no way AM can wipe out the competition because of "lowest cost". Business ain't that simple. Yeah, but gen 3 had two or three big problems: About half as efficient as planned, at least two months to late, focus on selling the chip when the mining market got much too saturated (in combination with higher power consumption of BE200) and wasting 2-3 months on selling the chip before self-mining. In addition we saw a steep decline of the BTC price, which AM couldn't have prevented. That being said, if things worked out better, we'd have had a gen 3 chip almost twice as efficient, self-mining in March/April, and potentially a better price. I do see where at least half of those things wouldn't necessarily be a problem with gen 4! Again, relying on hope ..... AM didn't predict these problems with Gen3 did they? They told us how amazingly power efficient the chips would be. Why do you believe, and that's believe, and not hope, Gen4 will be any different. Not even talking about Gen2 that disappeared without even being made without an explanation. You know the bitcoin price could easily decline from where it is now right? You don't have to believe all the bitcoiners that we are going to $3000 soon. Its a quintessential human quality, hope. People make a lot of money off it  All I'm saying is for every optimistic circumstance there is the opposite. I should know. I paid 4 BTC for AM shares a year or so ago ..... As friedcat has already said, they have learned a lot from their shortcomings with gen 3. If they incorporate those lessons into gen 4, all we have to hope for is that no new issues arise and we'll have another winner. Didn't AM already convert their Bitcoin hodlings to fiat - we're already winning |
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bitcoin down, AM up It seems like AM tracks to the US dollar (and also to dividends). |
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+100 @ philipma1957 I turned handles "outward" and added a fan, FINALLY got these Tubes to stop with the thermal runaway. Also +1 @ friedcat "they" handled the RMA on my burned up board, no additional costs. Gee, I can't see why you guys are having any thermal issues at stock clock speeds. My 3 have been running continuously at 2.4T in the quite warm (90F+) mining area of my basement. With 1 fan, though the handles are pointing outwards. I hate to mention this, I'm only trying to help, but you guys are peeling the plastic from both sides of the thermal pads before use??? I had to ask since my three have been amazingly reliable and robust so far... The air coming out the center is as hot as a BIG blow dryer, and the chips are too hot to touch, so I'm wondering about longevity, but as long as they hash for six months I'm fine. I remember a discussion about the fan arrangement and whether it should push or pull air through the tube. I set mine up to push since I didn't want the fan and it's bearings to heat up because I thought that would cause flow issues. I have had no problems with the stock fan in a push config at clock of 280 and my 2 tubes are getting 1.7 T more like 1.68 T. |
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Still have not heard anything at all. Starting to get worried. Maybe he is on vacation? Sent E-mail to canary.btc@gmail.com twice. Sent E-mail to help@bitquan.com. Anybody got any spare chips? Looks like I am going to have to fix this myself. Friedcat has a boatload of chips left. It wouldn't be that difficult for him to throw a few in an envelope and ship them to you... and it couldn't hurt to ask. |
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In the current mining climate (declining BTC value, exponentially increasing difficulty, fierce competition) it is hard enough for an ASIC manufacturer to survive, let alone thrive.
I would not expect anything in terms of dividends. Gen2 was vaporware and Gen3 a bit of a dud due to a design mistake that significantly increased power consumption. I think the best we can hope for is for friedcat to roll over any earnings from Gen3 to accelerate and perfect development of Gen4. Shareholders looking for short term gains will be disappointed. In the long run, I think AM is still well positioned to come out on top and worth the risk of holding shares.
I also believe that this is the way to go! The Bitcoin price is just too low at the moment, even ROCKMINER decided to postpone their 2 PH/s mining operation.... AM just doesn't seem to have enough of a margin to spend the income as dividends. I think the best thing to do would be to order massive amounts of gen 4 chips ASAP. That was exactly their policy with gen 3. How did that work out? Bottom line, if they aren't paying dividends, share price will slide and slide. There is no way AM can wipe out the competition because of "lowest cost". Business ain't that simple. Yeah, but gen 3 had two or three big problems: About half as efficient as planned, at least two months to late, focus on selling the chip when the mining market got much too saturated (in combination with higher power consumption of BE200) and wasting 2-3 months on selling the chip before self-mining. In addition we saw a steep decline of the BTC price, which AM couldn't have prevented. That being said, if things worked out better, we'd have had a gen 3 chip almost twice as efficient, self-mining in March/April, and potentially a better price. I do see where at least half of those things wouldn't necessarily be a problem with gen 4! I think you've hit the nail on the head! Good analysis |
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In the current mining climate (declining BTC value, exponentially increasing difficulty, fierce competition) it is hard enough for an ASIC manufacturer to survive, let alone thrive.
I would not expect anything in terms of dividends. Gen2 was vaporware and Gen3 a bit of a dud due to a design mistake that significantly increased power consumption. I think the best we can hope for is for friedcat to roll over any earnings from Gen3 to accelerate and perfect development of Gen4. Shareholders looking for short term gains will be disappointed. In the long run, I think AM is still well positioned to come out on top and worth the risk of holding shares.
I also believe that this is the way to go! The Bitcoin price is just too low at the moment, even ROCKMINER decided to postpone their 2 PH/s mining operation.... AM just doesn't seem to have enough of a margin to spend the income as dividends. I think the best thing to do would be to order massive amounts of gen 4 chips ASAP. Rockminer postponed their 2 PH/s mining operation because there wasn't enough margin left to pay friedcat and electricity costs let alone make a profit. AM had the idea - "We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate." of course, AM was a little late for that game after trying for too long to sell chips that did not meet their own efficiency expectations. Sure if bitcoin price were to go higher, they might be able to get a little more mileage out of them but the chips are middle of the road as far as efficiency and a higher bitcoin price would create a higher demand ergo a higher price for all chips. As it stands, Rockminer was selling some of their equipment below cost. It's not a friendly market right now. If AM can incorporate the lessons learned from mistakes made with the gen 3 into a gen 4 chip and can produce it at a cost that will be profitable with today's bitcoin price, I say go for it! Order up the gen 4 chips! Otherwise, I would think there is no rush. |
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