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Author Topic: Block Erupter Prisma (>=1.4 T/device, 0.75-0.78 W/G, <1 BTC/T, October Shipping)  (Read 107596 times)
funkymunky
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September 22, 2014, 03:10:52 PM
 #41

I love the look of these miners!
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Mabsark
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September 22, 2014, 03:11:07 PM
 #42

Looks like this is pre-order and it is shipping october mid? Seems not profitable for me Sad
What part of it suggests it's pre order?

The part which says, "Shipping date: 8th October, 2014 to 27th October, 2014".
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September 22, 2014, 03:29:01 PM
 #43

Sorry but I paid good money for my magic crystal ball and I'm not about to give away prophecies for free.

But anyways here's a scenario where these could turn a profit: http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=29829733124&dcosts=650&diff_mincrease=15&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=1480000&diff_mincreasedecrease=4&btcusd=400.11&dpowcon=1100&btcusd_mincrease=2&pcost=0.05&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=2&action=calc*

*Disclaimer: guaranteed to be inaccurate.

Please show me the miners who are paying 0.05$/kWh!

Also would you be so kind to explain why are you making a projection with such a low electricity cost for AM miners, while when making projections for competition you use higher electricity prices:

At $0.1/kwh it would take 416 days of mining before the SP31 becomes a better deal.
I do hope compensation is not only for $/gh. At 0.15 $/kwh each machine will use an extra ~$1500 per year in electricity.

I do understand that you are biased, but at least try to make the projections the same for everyone, not giving an advantage to AM miners.



this guy must be very dumb or be working for friedcat.  Grin Grin Grin
which one is it ?

He is an AM shareholder, but is is to shy to put it in his sig.

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September 22, 2014, 03:34:22 PM
Last edit: September 23, 2014, 07:56:45 AM by Mabsark
 #44

So when will the devices ROI?

Based on static conditions - 300 Ph/s network hash rate, 0.1 USD/kWh, $500 USD/BTC and immediate mining start, AM's new Prisma overtakes the S3+ and closes the gap on the SP35:

SP35 costs 4,035 USD inc. PSU + shipping for 6 Th/s at 3.5kW, it would take 147 days to break even,
10 x AM Prisma costs 9,250 USD inc. PSUs + shipping for 14 Th/s at 10.5 kW, it would take 158 days to break even, and
S3+ B9 costs 320 USD inc. PSU + shipping for 453 Gh/s at 355W, it would take 173 days to break even.

Also, here's how much profit they'd make each day (mining income - power costs):

SP35 = 4.6 USD/Th
AM Prisma = 4.2 USD/Th
S3+ = 4.12 USD/Th

I'll leave you to your own estimations with regards to changes in BTC price, changes in difficulty and pre-order waiting times but I will remind you that Prismas will be shipping a full month at least before SP35s and there's no availability date regarding S3+ B10s or S4s. A full Prisma set would make 1,764 USD (after power costs) in 30 days under the static conditions.

Here's a question for you RoadStress. Given the 1 month head start for the Prisma, how long would it take for the SP35 to overtake the Prisma in total mining profits? Show you're working as well. Oh yeah, and where's that 0.1 BTC you said you were going to send me.  Cheesy

Edit: A mistake was pointed out where I was using the fixed 500 USD/BTC price for initial purchase costs and break even time, which I've now changed to $400 USD to be more reflective of the current conditions.

10 x AM Prisma costs 7760 USD inc. PSUs + shipping for 14 Th/s at 10.5 kW, it would take 185 days to break even,
SP35 costs 4,035 USD inc. PSU + shipping for 6 Th/s at 3.5kW, it would take 198 days to break even, and
S3+ B9 costs 282 USD inc. PSU + shipping for 453 Gh/s at 355W, it would take 214 days to break even.

Mining Profit/Th/day:

SP20 = 3.25
SP35 = 3.4
S3+ = 2.92
AM Tube = 2.1
AM Prisma = 3
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September 22, 2014, 03:38:03 PM
 #45

why bother pay 14.9 BTC for these when they can only produce like 9-10 BTC ?

So I take it you have a magic crystal ball too?

Mine says these can easily break even with cheap electricity.

lol, you are a joke

even with free electricity they won't ROI.remember they will start shipping in at least 2 weeks from now, you need to pay import tax in your country,and you also have to buy PSUs, cables etc.
you have all these for free ?

If you have to pay 25% import tax you are automatically disqualified from mining, sorry I had to break the news to you. And yes many people have free psus/cables but you can always buy cheap server psus for $25/kw.

Quote
let's run a small simulation assuming everything will be in our favor, the small miner:



-only 15 % diff increase (which we all know will be much higher)
-14 TH/S
-free electricity

you will still be in a negative -7.7 BTC in more than 1 year from now on.after 1 year 14 th/s will be worthless

If you've been following the difficulty you would know that the growth rate is slowing down not increasing and it's less than 15% average. The low btc rate will only add to the slowing.

Even in your unrealistic scenario where difficulty growth stays constant at 15% you can still ROI because the actual price of the 14TH is clearly 15btc not 23btc.

dude, i can't belive you have so much activity and still know nothing.it's either you play dumb or ?are you that dumb ?it's not just 14 BTC, you have to add import tax, psu costs,maintanance, cables, everything else !
with all this money you can buy  23 btc from start !
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September 22, 2014, 03:52:12 PM
 #46

why bother pay 14.9 BTC for these when they can only produce like 9-10 BTC ?

So I take it you have a magic crystal ball too?

Mine says these can easily break even with cheap electricity.

lol, you are a joke

even with free electricity they won't ROI.remember they will start shipping in at least 2 weeks from now, you need to pay import tax in your country,and you also have to buy PSUs, cables etc.
you have all these for free ?

let's run a small simulation assuming everything will be in our favor, the small miner:



-only 15 % diff increase (which we all know will be much higher)
-14 TH/S
-free electricity

you will still be in a negative -7.7 BTC in more than 1 year from now on.after 1 year 14 th/s will be worthless


15% constant diff increase? 3'000 G difficulty in Oct 2015? Or 21'000 PH?
Let's take that by that time mining hardware will use 0.5 kWh/TH, and electricity at $0.1/kWh ...
Bitcoin has to be valued at $6000 just to cover this running costs. Nice Wink
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September 22, 2014, 03:52:52 PM
 #47

why bother pay 14.9 BTC for these when they can only produce like 9-10 BTC ?

So I take it you have a magic crystal ball too?

Mine says these can easily break even with cheap electricity.

lol, you are a joke

even with free electricity they won't ROI.remember they will start shipping in at least 2 weeks from now, you need to pay import tax in your country,and you also have to buy PSUs, cables etc.
you have all these for free ?

If you have to pay 25% import tax you are automatically disqualified from mining, sorry I had to break the news to you. And yes many people have free psus/cables but you can always buy cheap server psus for $25/kw.

Quote
let's run a small simulation assuming everything will be in our favor, the small miner:



-only 15 % diff increase (which we all know will be much higher)
-14 TH/S
-free electricity

you will still be in a negative -7.7 BTC in more than 1 year from now on.after 1 year 14 th/s will be worthless

If you've been following the difficulty you would know that the growth rate is slowing down not increasing and it's less than 15% average. The low btc rate will only add to the slowing.

Even in your unrealistic scenario where difficulty growth stays constant at 15% you can still ROI because the actual price of the 14TH is clearly 15btc not 23btc.

dude, i can't belive you have so much activity and still know nothing.it's either you play dumb or ?are you that dumb ?it's not just 14 BTC, you have to add import tax, psu costs,maintanance, cables, everything else !
with all this money you can buy  23 btc from start !

Hes playing dumb, everyone knows hes a joke.

The dumbass cant even put better effort to fool newbies.
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September 22, 2014, 03:54:10 PM
 #48

dude, i can't belive you have so much activity and still know nothing.it's either you play dumb or ?are you that dumb ?it's not just 14 BTC, you have to add import tax, psu costs,maintanance, cables, everything else !
with all this money you can buy  23 btc from start !

I think you're the one playing dumb.

Why would you automatically assume everyone needs to pay ridiculous import tax even though the majority of people mining don't?

Also not everyone is forced to buy the most expensive ATX psus possible.

You can probably power two miners with one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-24R2711-BladeCenter-2000W-Power-Supply-DPS-2000BB-24R2710-/311083483747?pt=US_Server_Power_Supplies&hash=item486e054263
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September 22, 2014, 04:00:24 PM
 #49

Based on static conditions - 300 Ph/s network hash rate, 0.1 USD/kWh, $500 USD/BTC and immediate mining start, AM's new Prisma overtakes the S3+ and closes the gap on the SP35:

I'll leave you to your own estimations with regards to changes in BTC price, changes in difficulty and pre-order waiting times but I will remind you that Prismas will be shipping a full month at least before SP35s and there's no availability date regarding S3+ B10s or S4s. A full Prisma set would make 1,764 USD (after power costs) in 30 days under the static conditions.

All of the highlighted statements are false. The conditions aren't static and there is no immediate mining start. Instead of throwing with useless and fictional numbers like $1,764 USD  why not use your energy for some realistic projections. By the time the Prisma miners will ship difficulty will jump 2 times. The next jump is in just 3 days and it's projected to ~19%. For the sake of the argument let's say the next one will be ~15%. That means that the $1,764 will transform to a merely $1,200 USD. 

I hope that everyone else notices jimmothy's and your biased projections as AM shareholders!

Here's a question for you RoadStress. Given the 1 month head start for the Prisma, how long would it take for the SP35 to overtake the Prisma in total mining profits? Show you're working as well. Oh yeah, and where's that 0.1 BTC you said you were going to send me.  Cheesy

Sure. Under static conditions (since you like to use it) 2xSP35 will not overtake Prisma in monthly mining profits, but it will be the same as 10xAM Prisma miners. The 2xSP35 owner will pay less for them and start mining one month later. The 10xAM Prisma owner will start mining 1 month earlier, but in that one month of head start he will only regain the difference of price compared to the 2xSP35 miners (~1200$). After the first month both solutions will have the same profit per month, except that the AM Prisma owner will need a bigger electricity circuit than the SP35 owner.

As for your 0.1 BTC I will reply you in the dedicated thread, no need to be so desperate.

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September 22, 2014, 04:03:05 PM
 #50

why bother pay 14.9 BTC for these when they can only produce like 9-10 BTC ?

So I take it you have a magic crystal ball too?

Mine says these can easily break even with cheap electricity.

lol, you are a joke

even with free electricity they won't ROI.remember they will start shipping in at least 2 weeks from now, you need to pay import tax in your country,and you also have to buy PSUs, cables etc.
you have all these for free ?

let's run a small simulation assuming everything will be in our favor, the small miner:



-only 15 % diff increase (which we all know will be much higher)
-14 TH/S
-free electricity

you will still be in a negative -7.7 BTC in more than 1 year from now on.after 1 year 14 th/s will be worthless


15% constant diff increase? 3'000 G difficulty in Oct 2015? Or 21'000 PH?
Let's take that by that time mining hardware will use 0.5 kWh/TH, and electricity at $0.1/kWh ...
Bitcoin has to be valued at $6000 just to cover this running costs. Nice Wink

That or if bitcoin stays at $385 like his totally realistic predictions suggest it would mean that all the hardware powering the network would have to be at least 0.025 w/gh if they expect 50% of daily revenue to be profit. (at $0.05/kwh)

I'm not entirely convinced we will see hardware 200 times more efficient than current gen hardware in only a year.
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September 22, 2014, 04:15:18 PM
 #51

Please show me the miners who are paying 0.05$/kWh!

Have you tried asking anyone in washington?

If you use your miner for space heating you can also cut down electricity costs.

Quote
Also would you be so kind to explain why are you making a projection with such a low electricity cost for AM miners, while when making projections for competition you use higher electricity prices:

Are you talking about when I compared the SP30's that you advertised as being profitable even with $0.1/kwh hosting?

I wouldn't recommend mining to anyone that pays more than $0.05/kwh.

Quote
I do understand that you are biased, but at least try to make the projections the same for everyone, not giving an advantage to AM miners.

It doesn't matter what variables I use because however you look at it, it beats everything else available.

Instead of arguing whether this will ROI or not (which is entirely pointless speculation) how about showing us a miner that has a better chance?
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September 22, 2014, 04:17:32 PM
 #52

Based on static conditions - 300 Ph/s network hash rate, 0.1 USD/kWh, $500 USD/BTC and immediate mining start, AM's new Prisma overtakes the S3+ and closes the gap on the SP35:

I'll leave you to your own estimations with regards to changes in BTC price, changes in difficulty and pre-order waiting times but I will remind you that Prismas will be shipping a full month at least before SP35s and there's no availability date regarding S3+ B10s or S4s. A full Prisma set would make 1,764 USD (after power costs) in 30 days under the static conditions.

All of the highlighted statements are false. The conditions aren't static and there is no immediate mining start. Instead of throwing with useless and fictional numbers like $1,764 USD  why not use your energy for some realistic projections. By the time the Prisma miners will ship difficulty will jump 2 times. The next jump is in just 3 days and it's projected to ~19%. For the sake of the argument let's say the next one will be ~15%. That means that the $1,764 will transform to a merely $1,200 USD. 

I hope that everyone else notices jimmothy's and your biased projections as AM shareholders!

Here's a question for you RoadStress. Given the 1 month head start for the Prisma, how long would it take for the SP35 to overtake the Prisma in total mining profits? Show you're working as well. Oh yeah, and where's that 0.1 BTC you said you were going to send me.  Cheesy

Sure. Under static conditions (since you like to use it) 2xSP35 will not overtake Prisma in monthly mining profits, but it will be the same as 10xAM Prisma miners. The 2xSP35 owner will pay less for them and start mining one month later. The 10xAM Prisma owner will start mining 1 month earlier, but in that one month of head start he will only regain the difference of price compared to the 2xSP35 miners (~1200$). After the first month both solutions will have the same profit per month, except that the AM Prisma owner will need a bigger electricity circuit than the SP35 owner.

As for your 0.1 BTC I will reply you in the dedicated thread, no need to be so desperate.

How do you figure the SP35s are cheaper? The price on 10 Prismas is 14.9BTC or 5960. To that you need to add 5*($45+$60+$3.50*8 + $10) for a DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables/shipping = $665
That's $6625 for 10 Prismas, which unless the SP35's have had a large price drop recently is still cheaper than two of those.
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September 22, 2014, 04:23:50 PM
 #53

All of the highlighted statements are false. The conditions aren't static and there is no immediate mining start. Instead of throwing with useless and fictional numbers like $1,764 USD  why not use your energy for some realistic projections. By the time the Prisma miners will ship difficulty will jump 2 times. The next jump is in just 3 days and it's projected to ~19%. For the sake of the argument let's say the next one will be ~15%. That means that the $1,764 will transform to a merely $1,200 USD. 

I hope that everyone else notices jimmothy's and your biased projections as AM shareholders!

Are you really as stupid as you sound? They're not false at all. They are the static conditions I chose and the values are irrelevant. It is not meant to be and does not even try to be an accurate representation of the bitcoin network and mining conditions. All it simply does is allow you to compare the different miners on a equal footing without having to guess at the different variables.

Also, what biased projections are those? The ones that show the SP35 making the most mining profit per TH per day and reaching break-even the quickest (given that all miner start mining immediately)?  Roll Eyes
 
Sure. Under static conditions (since you like to use it) 2xSP35 will not overtake Prisma in monthly mining profits, but it will be the same as 10xAM Prisma miners. The 2xSP35 owner will pay less for them and start mining one month later. The 10xAM Prisma owner will start mining 1 month earlier, but in that one month of head start he will only regain the difference of price compared to the 2xSP35 miners (~1200$). After the first month both solutions will have the same profit per month, except that the AM Prisma owner will need a bigger electricity circuit than the SP35 owner.

That is not an answer to the question I asked. The answer I'm looking for a specific length of time. If you are too stupid to do basic maths, just say so. If not, provide the answer with your working out.

As for your 0.1 BTC I will reply you in the dedicated thread, no need to be so desperate.

I don't expect the BTC but that doesn't change the fact that you said you would give me it. Like I've said repeatedly, you're a liar.
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September 22, 2014, 04:26:47 PM
 #54

Have you tried asking anyone in washington?

So all miners are from Washington now? Or all AM customers are from there? What about the rest of the miners?

I wouldn't recommend mining to anyone that pays more than $0.05/kwh.

It doesn't matter what variables I use because however you look at it, it beats everything else available.

Instead of arguing whether this will ROI or not (which is entirely pointless speculation) how about showing us a miner that has a better chance?

Well following your statement nobody should buy AM Prismas if they have an electricity cost of over 0.05/kWh so why bother showing you different miners?



How do you figure the SP35s are cheaper? The price on 10 Prismas is 14.9BTC or 5960. To that you need to add 5*($45+$60+$3.50*8 + $10) for a DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables/shipping = $665
That's $6625 for 10 Prismas, which unless the SP35's have had a large price drop recently is still cheaper than two of those.

I used the numbers AM shareholder Mabsark posted here:
SP35 costs 4,035 USD inc. PSU + shipping for 6 Th/s at 3.5kW, it would take 147 days to break even,
10 x AM Prisma costs 9,250 USD inc. PSUs + shipping for 14 Th/s at 10.5 kW, it would take 158 days to break even, and
S3+ B9 costs 320 USD inc. PSU + shipping for 453 Gh/s at 355W, it would take 173 days to break even.

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September 22, 2014, 04:31:08 PM
 #55

Are you really as stupid as you sound? They're not false at all. They are the static conditions I chose and the values are irrelevant. It is not meant to be and does not even try to be an accurate representation of the bitcoin network and mining conditions. All it simply does is allow you to compare the different miners on a equal footing without having to guess at the different variables.

Also, what biased projections are those? The ones that show the SP35 making the most mining profit per TH per day and reaching break-even the quickest (given that all miner start mining immediately)?  Roll Eyes


Static conditions, that will never apply. Difficulty will jump in 3 days and there is no immediate mining with the Prismas. So what you presented is only in your fantasy. It can't apply to the real world. So while they are not false, they are not applicable either. It's just an useless projection.

Sure. Under static conditions (since you like to use it) 2xSP35 will not overtake Prisma in monthly mining profits, but it will be the same as 10xAM Prisma miners. The 2xSP35 owner will pay less for them and start mining one month later. The 10xAM Prisma owner will start mining 1 month earlier, but in that one month of head start he will only regain the difference of price compared to the 2xSP35 miners (~1200$). After the first month both solutions will have the same profit per month, except that the AM Prisma owner will need a bigger electricity circuit than the SP35 owner.

That is not an answer to the question I asked. The answer I'm looking for a specific length of time. If you are too stupid to do basic maths, just say so. If not, provide the answer with your working out.

What length of time are you looking for? I just gave you my projection for the first 2 months of mining.

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September 22, 2014, 04:36:44 PM
 #56

How do you figure the SP35s are cheaper? The price on 10 Prismas is 14.9BTC or 5960. To that you need to add 5*($45+$60+$3.50*8 + $10) for a DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables/shipping = $665
That's $6625 for 10 Prismas, which unless the SP35's have had a large price drop recently is still cheaper than two of those.

To be fair to RoadStress, I used $180 PSUs in my calculations and the price of bitcoin is fixed at 500 USD/BTC. Also, 2000W wouldn't be enough to run 2 Prismas. I don't know whether those server PSUs have the necessary PCIe cables so I was hesitant to use them in the calculations.

Can you provide some links to those products (DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables) so people will know what to look for?
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September 22, 2014, 04:39:28 PM
 #57

How do you figure the SP35s are cheaper? The price on 10 Prismas is 14.9BTC or 5960. To that you need to add 5*($45+$60+$3.50*8 + $10) for a DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables/shipping = $665
That's $6625 for 10 Prismas, which unless the SP35's have had a large price drop recently is still cheaper than two of those.

I used the numbers AM shareholder Mabsark posted here:
SP35 costs 4,035 USD inc. PSU + shipping for 6 Th/s at 3.5kW, it would take 147 days to break even,
10 x AM Prisma costs 9,250 USD inc. PSUs + shipping for 14 Th/s at 10.5 kW, it would take 158 days to break even, and
S3+ B9 costs 320 USD inc. PSU + shipping for 453 Gh/s at 355W, it would take 173 days to break even.
Ah, I see. Those are extremely poor numbers. The Prismas are a hair under $6000 right now, so that's factoring in $3250 for 10kW of power supply which is ridiculous. Even if you don't want to mess with server PSUs, you could go buy 10 well reviewed gold ATX supplies (RM1000/Capstone 1000M) for $1500 shipped from Newegg (plus tax, if you're unlucky).
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September 22, 2014, 04:44:56 PM
 #58

How do you figure the SP35s are cheaper? The price on 10 Prismas is 14.9BTC or 5960. To that you need to add 5*($45+$60+$3.50*8 + $10) for a DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables/shipping = $665
That's $6625 for 10 Prismas, which unless the SP35's have had a large price drop recently is still cheaper than two of those.

To be fair to RoadStress, I used $180 PSUs in my calculations and the price of bitcoin is fixed at 500 USD/BTC. Also, 2000W wouldn't be enough to run 2 Prismas. I don't know whether those server PSUs have the necessary PCIe cables so I was hesitant to use them in the calculations.

Can you provide some links to those products (DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables) so people will know what to look for?
Sidehack sells breakout boards and cables for the price listed. Not sure if he has stock now, but it's not like you're getting these immediately anyway. The PSUs are all over eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-24R2711-BladeCenter-2000W-Power-Supply-DPS-2000BB-24R2710-/311083483747?pt=US_Server_Power_Supplies&hash=item486e054263
2000W would be enough to run two Prismas. They've said 0.67J/GH board wise, which is about 1000W@1.5TH/s. It's running them full out, but they will handle that without issue. I believe Sidehack has load tested them continuously @ 200A.

Re: the $500/BTC, we're all hoping but it seems rather sketchy to base the numbers on that since you can't order an SP35 using $500/BTC without a time machine.
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September 22, 2014, 04:45:24 PM
 #59

To be fair to RoadStress, I used $180 PSUs in my calculations and the price of bitcoin is fixed at 500 USD/BTC. Also, 2000W wouldn't be enough to run 2 Prismas. I don't know whether those server PSUs have the necessary PCIe cables so I was hesitant to use them in the calculations.

Can you provide some links to those products (DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables) so people will know what to look for?


Why not use 400 USD/BTC as it is right now? Is your magic crystal ball letting you know that in 1 month the exchange rate will rise?

Ah, I see. Those are extremely poor numbers. The Prismas are a hair under $6000 right now, so that's factoring in $3250 for 10kW of power supply which is ridiculous. Even if you don't want to mess with server PSUs, you could go buy 10 well reviewed gold ATX supplies (RM1000/Capstone 1000M) for $1500 shipped from Newegg (plus tax, if you're unlucky).

Ok, with the updated numbers you will have an advantage of $1500 for all lifetime mining profits for buying AM Prismas vs 2xSP35 at the cost of needing a bigger electricity circuit.

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September 22, 2014, 04:54:57 PM
 #60

Have you tried asking anyone in washington?

So all miners are from Washington now? Or all AM customers are from there? What about the rest of the miners?

Just because many people in Washington have access to <$0.05/kwh electricity, doesn't mean nobody else does.

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Well following your statement nobody should buy AM Prismas if they have an electricity cost of over 0.05/kWh so why bother showing you different miners?

Because even at $0.05/kwh it will not be easy to turn a profit.

Why can't you show us a scenario where the sp35 is more profitable?
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