I still don't understand. What's going to happen with the DBC that I hold? |
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I challenge you to find another project that has Tor integrated in the same way and has Tor as default. Just this makes Spectrecoin different. They will also make sure that the wallet works in Tor censored countries.
I think you are celebrating for the wrong reasons. 1. It's not spectrecoin that has tor by default, but the wallet. It doesn't bring anything to the coin it's self. In fact for mass adoption I do expect to have other wallets too. Depending on a single software and team is a bad idea 2. Integrating a tor bridge is trivial work. Nothing is stopping other developers to integrate them in a wallet of any currency, hence why it's not considered sufficient moat to keep it is a top coin. Anybody can catch up without much costs (and no, it's not the only wallet with tor integration, and not even the first). 3. Monero doesn't integrate tor into the default wallet because it's not necessary. People who have an actual inclination for privacy let alone reasons will use tor anyway on the entire machine. It's not like you can get on .onion websites without or really need this privacy on other websites. It will be implemented when needed. I think that the developers are really clever and if you have the knowledge, have a look at the GitHub and see how they are making it all. Spectrecoin is solid tech, proof-of-stake
Yes, it's solid. So was shadowcoin from which it was forked from. Not much substance added on github since then though. And if you have the "knowledge" to check that it will become obvious how little has actually changed. Sorry to burst your bubble. It's a good coin, and I think it's pretty private (that is if the devs have finally raised the ring size from 1 - haven't checked in the last 6 months. In general I would consider anything below 7 as risky AF. I understand there aren't enough transactions to raise the size but under the current condition I wouldn't use it for anything where actual anonymity would be required) but it doesn't revolutionize anything. |
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I've been away for the last few months and seem to have missed a lot. Is stealth staking still on the roadmap or was it just a pipedream?
Also why do we have a new thread? What's wrong with the old? I don't see any clues here about that.
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I've been a bit out of the game for the last 2 months so I haven't been watching closely. Is stealth staking still planning for xspec or it's fork?
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It's almost funny to see so many newbie and junior accounts shouting the word "scam" in connection to Deeponion. If they are Newbies or Juniors either they are new in the game and they have no clue of what they are talking about, ot they are sockpuppets of people who have probably already posted too much in this thread and now they want to create the illusion that other people are sharing their delusions.
I'm shouting scam and I'm a bit older here. The number one problem is that DO have been claiming to be 100% untraceable for a year now, which we know is not true. They are peddling a lie. How do you call that? Of course there is plenty other proof of other stuff in this thread from staking undistributed funds to faking an account hacking to get rid of -16 trust. The fact that they heavy moderate everything to keep a cheerful mood doen't help either. |
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let me put the question into context for all you dreamers: in order to mine 1 bitcoin in average in the world you need to spend about 5000$ in electricity. In China it's 4000$, Ukraine 1000$, ...
Do you think any kind of "thing" produced for 5000$ can be sold for 1 million $? Even in a short term bubble? Who is the idiot that will spend 1 million dollars instead of just 5000 for 1 btc?
You are welcome. You can stop daydreaming now
Since you wanted to be a smart ass, lets get a clarification on the valuation of paper money, how much does it cost to print paper currency and do you usually convert that to know the intrinsic value of a product and why does everyone brings that up as if the price of bitcoin should be around the price of the coins mined, the valuation depends upon the number of coins in the market and the demand and it is not dependent on the amount of energy used to mine a coin. Looking at the market now it is highly unlikely to see those valuations but anything is possible with the price. there is a big difference between paper money and bitcoin. You can't print paper money but you can mine BTC. Dollar bills don't have a production cost only the goverment can make them so it's a moot point. Not trying to be a smart ass but please enlighten me: why would I but a BTC with a price 10, 100, 1000 times higher then it would cost me to produce one? It's basic market economy. Unless there is a crazy reason that will compel people but buy BTC at a way faster rate then you can produce it, the price has no way to rise.... |
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$5000 and $7500 is actually a big difference. Everybody undestands that even current rate is the underestimated price. I'm not into these groomy panic moods, so I feel that $10k is closer than $5k)
I don't think it's underestimated. I think right now it's spot on. Read a few posts up why |
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let me put the question into context for all you dreamers: in order to mine 1 bitcoin in average in the world you need to spend about 5000$ in electricity. In China it's 4000$, Ukraine 1000$, ...
Do you think any kind of "thing" produced for 5000$ can be sold for 1 million $? Even in a short term bubble? Who is the idiot that will spend 1 million dollars instead of just 5000 for 1 btc?
You are welcome. You can stop daydreaming now
Electricity is not the only cost in mining a Bitcoin. If it were that easy everyone would just mine their own BTC. You forgot that the difficulty of mining BTC increases all the time. E.g. years ago you could successfully mine a block using your own CPU. These days you wonīt mine a single block if you donīt have a data center full of the newest ASICs. Even if you have a data center full of ASICs (that also cost money) you will run them 24/7 and not mine a block for days, because the mining market is so competitive. In a year the average cost of mining a single Bitcoin will probably be 8000 $ or more, because of the rising difficulty. I have 2 words for you: mining pool Even it it costs 8k to mine 1 BTC my point stands. It's never going to be worth much more simply because you have a choice: mine or buy. It's stupid to buy at 1 million when you can mine at 8k. |
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Supply is not a problem because there is a limit to how many bitcoins can be created and as time goes by and halving bitcoin will be more scarce. As for demand, we can't do anything on this forum to increase, apart from spreading popularity, which we already do, but the increase in demand will come as it already has because of the good quality of the product: bitcoin.
supply is exactly the problem. In order to mind a BTC you pay 2-5k $ in electricity. Why should BTC be worth more then the cost to produce it? Or let me put it this way: why should I pay 20,000$ for 1 BTC when I can mine it for 5,000$? Unless you create artificial high demand it's only worth a bit more then the costs (labor + profit) |
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let me put the question into context for all you dreamers: in order to mine 1 bitcoin in average in the world you need to spend about 5000$ in electricity. In China it's 4000$, Ukraine 1000$, ...
Do you think any kind of "thing" produced for 5000$ can be sold for 1 million $? Even in a short term bubble? Who is the idiot that will spend 1 million dollars instead of just 5000 for 1 btc?
You are welcome. You can stop daydreaming now
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it's 4 cents per kw in China mate. If you pay 12 cents then you are doing it wrong. Of course there are countries that pay as much as 24 cents but the point is to locate your centers in cheap countries, which is why over 50% of mining is done in china. There are even cheap countries though like ucraine. |
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setting technical analysys aside, if BTC is going to be used as a real coin it's going to end up priced at around the mining costs, which right now are 2000-5000$, depending on the rig you have. Market imbalances fix themselves automatically after a while. Speculation alone can't keep the prices up.
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Iīm tired of hearing the argument "but Bitcoin wastes more energy than
a whole country..." all over the mainstream media.
Here are a few reasons why the energy that is consumed by Bitcoin mining is not wasted:
1. The energy that is consumed by Bitcoin mining is the foundation of the security of the network
2. Proof-of-work is superior to other consensus algorithms like Proof-of-Stake and offers less attack vectors
3. Fiat currencies are supposedly backed by the power of the state... meanwhile the US military consumes more energy than Bitcoin mining per year
(this is a comparison of the military of a single country compared to a truly global currency)
4. No one is talking about the enormous costs of transporting fiat money, securing it and printing it in the first place
5. The mining of other commodities is extremely energy-intensive as well
If you take all these factors into account, Bitcoin may actually be less energy-intensive than traditional
fiat currencies. Besides, many mining companies have set up their operations in countries with an abundance
of renewable energies like Canada or Iceland. The days where Bitcoin was solely mined in rural Mongolia and China
may finally be behind us.
The BTC network does around 3-4 transactions/s with the costs of electricity of an entire country. Meanwhile Visa can process 2000/second with the costs of running a normal datacenter. What do you thing will happen when BTC will actually get used like Visa or Mastercard is? I pay everything right now with a credit card, even 2$ transactions. Also the BTC vs cash money comparison is flawed. It should be BTC vs wire transfers vs credit cards. The market can regulate that, in a way that only large solar fields in very sunny and sparsely populated areas (with low land property costs) are profitable. I've already mentioned some regions - an ideal region for that would be the Altiplano/Atacama Desert in South-Western South America (Argentina/Chile/Bolivia) with extremely sunny conditions and not too much heat. There are 1-3 persons per square kilometer there, or even less.
And as I've said - the required total space for a "mega solar field" that would generate the whole energy for a $2 million Bitcoin (see my calculation some posts ago based on the Andasol plants) would be probably not much larger than a small US state of ~10000 square km.
I think in densely populated regions you may be right, there could be restrictions, like a mining tax, or local governments refusing authorizing large solar fields only for mining. But in many regions of Europe anyway a wind/solar combination may be better. And I don't think countries like Morocco, Bolivia, Argelia, Argentina or Chile would restrict solar mining in their desert regions. It would be too lucrative to simply tax these miners ... maybe even the State would mine in these regions.
solar energy has the huge downside of being dependant on weather and time of day, while mining requires constant 24/7 energy. At night the powergrid would overload. The only way to sustain the mining requirements are coal and nuclear plants. |
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I have decided to make another post in order to debunk one of the common arguments against Bitcoin. If you are interested in another thread where I tried to do something similar, take a look at my recent thread: Debunking the waste of energy argument against BitcoinToday Iīd like to debunk the argument that "anyone can make their own crypto" or its variations like "anyone can print as many as they want". Here are a few reasons why Bitcoin canīt be copied easily: 1. Even the well-funded fork attempts of Bitcoin Cash and SegWit2x either didnīt materialize at all or were a complete failure... Bitcoin Cash is processing less transactions than Dogecoin every 24 hours 2. While it may be easy to copy the code of Bitcoin due to it being Open Source it is incredibly difficult to actually get people to use your cryptocurrency... just take a look at the dozens of "ghost blockchains" of altcoins that see no real usage 3. A product like Coca Cola that is widely popular today faced competition by more than 7000 knock-offs and still is the most popular choice among the general public today (I concede that Coca Cola and Bitcoin are not directly comparable) 4. It is incredibly hard to launch a successful cryptocurrency in an ethical manner without a pre-mine or similar antics given the huge competition by well-funded projects that invest more time and money into marketing than into development 5. Bitcoin has the best developers and due to the importance of security this makes it essentially impossible for other coins to dethrone Bitcoin... many of the Bitcoin Core developers are financially independent (due to Bitcoin!*) and are working on Bitcoin for ideological reasons, which are a far better motivation than extrinsical motivation in the form of money 6. Bitcoin has no centralized point of failure while most other projects would suffer tremendously in the case of the death of a key person of the respective project (e.g. if Vitalik would die in a car crash tomorrow the Ethereum project would suffer). This is even worse for the huge amount of projects with a single lead developer. ... Iīm curious to hear what you think about my arguments and of course it would be great if you could add additional arguments.
* I remember reading a quote by one of the Bitcoin Core developers where he stated
something along the lines of "Bitcoin has taken care of me, now Iīm taking care of it".
How can you seriously expect to beat someone with an attitude like this? I'm going to debunk a few of your points That's because it brings nothing new on the table. It's just a copy. Of course it failed. Point is there are about 1000 coins out there, and most of them are easy copies. Those will fail. Then there are many that are not copies and improved things a lot, but will still fail because people don't understand the improvements. In the end only a couple will survive, and at least a some will beat bitcoin. There are so many great things out there I'd like to think the world is smarter then that. 2. While it may be easy to copy the code of Bitcoin due to it being Open Source it is incredibly difficult
to actually get people to use your cryptocurrency... just take a look at the dozens of "ghost blockchains" of altcoins that see no real
usage
You are right here. People are incredibly sheepish and rarely see the real value in all the hype 3. A product like Coca Cola that is widely popular today faced competition by more than 7000 knock-offs and still is
the most popular choice among the general public today (I concede that Coca Cola and Bitcoin are not directly comparable)
Was any of the knockoffs better then Coca Cola? No. Most focused on getting it cheaper. Then this is a failed comparison. 4. It is incredibly hard to launch a successful cryptocurrency in an ethical manner without a pre-mine or similar antics given
the huge competition by well-funded projects that invest more time and money into marketing than into development
Yet there are some but were launched very ethicly. Of course most people don't because it's all about money, but lets not forget BTC pre-mine was/is huge. Just because it's sitting there it doesn't mean the keys are lost... 5. Bitcoin has the best developers and due to the importance of security this makes it essentially impossible for other
coins to dethrone Bitcoin... many of the Bitcoin Core developers are financially independent (due to Bitcoin!*) and are working on Bitcoin
for ideological reasons, which are a far better motivation than extrinsical motivation in the form of money
you clearly don't understand opensource. You don't need to be financialy independant to code opensource software, just passionate about something. There are millions of open source projects around the world, made by people with jobs as well. I too have a job and in my free time contribute to various projects. I don't expect any financial gain from them.
6. Bitcoin has no centralized point of failure while most other projects would suffer tremendously in the case of the
death of a key person of the respective project (e.g. if Vitalik would die in a car crash tomorrow the Ethereum project
would suffer). This is even worse for the huge amount of projects with a single lead developer.
In terms of development no, but then again it's the same case with other large projects like Monero. In the end out of 1000 projects, not all have to "die" so that BTC looses it's throne. Just a few need to succeed and not get hit by a car. Also speaking of single point of failures, more then 50% of worlds processing power is in china and controlled by 4 companies. If these 4 people decided BTC is over, or China's president did, .... now that's a huge point of failure. |
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great project! great community! great Dev's and Mod's I feel lucky myself to be a part of this great DeepOnion community.  Glad you are a part of the community!! I too feel lucky to be apart of it! It's really amazing. Definitely most promising privacy coin on the market right now. Happy to be here. How does it compare with Monero though? That's the biggest privacy coin out there. Monero failed a little bit in privacy..Also with the features that are coming, like DeepSend, DeepOnion can achieve more than Monero ever had. How exactly did they fail a little on privacy? I'm just trying to know, since it is the top one. Monero turned out to be traceable. The devs didn't deny that, but only stated that now it is fixed and more secure. I'm not home right now so I don't have the report, if you need it, PM me at the DO forums and I'll try to find it for you. When a new research confirmed that it is traceable, Monero devs claimed that this report is old. They are trying to act cool and not make a big deal out of it. They don't want to admit their mistake because the worst thing that can happen to a privacy crypto is to find out that it is not private and all transactions are stored on the blockchain can compromise their users forever. Zcash is the next competitor, and the developers stated that it needs a huge amount of RAM to create truly untraceable transaction... Good luck sending a private transaction supported by a statement like that. DeepOnion is superior than both, as it uses both technologies used by Monero and Zcash +more, when DeepSend is launched. In addition to being anonymous by sending all transactions through Tor. This gives the upper hand when trading through a decentralized exchange as the user identity should be protected. DeepOnion isn't superior right because none of those are implemented. In fact DO don't even have the ring signatures Monero has. It's as traceble as bitcoin |
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google "deeponion scam". There way to much to talk about and there is plenty of information around, if only you want to open your eyes. Long story short, it's a privacy coin with no privacy features, only a long road map and many many empty promises of 100% anonymity. |
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I thought it was a scam but its taking a long time to play out. There have been some very good exit points if the creators wanted to take the money and run. Its is a scam I wonder how much longer it will go on for.
how do you know how much capital has already exited? A lot of money has been moved from large holders in the last year, there is just no way to know where to. Obviously they wouldn't dump it all at once, they'd be stupid to do so. But please think for a second: DO has falled from a peak of 20$ to 2$ right now. That's 10x, with all the hype and "large community involvement" etc. Other coins have barely fallen (2x-4x) with rather silent communities (see monero, sky, byteball, iota). You'd expect all this support to keep the coin up wouldn't you? Unless of course somebody keeps selling and pushing the price down.....aaaand there is you long and constant dump |
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Manipulation is nothing new in Market. There may have little manipulation in Crypto too. But I dont think not in any form of Cartel. This is just mare speculation. Its pretty tough to manipulate a market that is based on decentralization.
any market can be manipulated. The financial market it's self is pretty decentralized (even more then bitcoin). If you think of it over 50% of the BTC mining market is in china and is controlled by 4 organizations. What financial market in the world is more at the whim of so few people? Can you imagine the potential for inside trading here? And what's worse is that because of the de-regulation and pseudo-anonimity of bitcoin this is neither illegal, nor easy to prove. You wanted total freedom with your money? You have it. No rules other then jungle rules. Survival of the fittest. |
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looking at the charts it would seem we are still in a down channel. You have to be pretty damn optimistic to interpret today's price even as consolidation, let alone as a recovery. Ofc this is pure speculation but if I would assign odds I'd say 60% chance of downtrend continuing, 35% consolidation, 5% for a reversal. Anyway, I don't think we can have a reversal without some positive news, and I don't expect any soon. On the contrary I expect more regulations and possibly bans
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As it was said many times, bitcoin price is unpredictable. We can only guess, and my guess is "no". Bitcoin may rise to $20k in 2019, but we would be lucky to return to $10k in 2018.
I agree to this. We will be lucky if we reach 10k again soon (other then in a bull trap). We seem to be in a downtrend and it's not over yet. We haven't seen the consolidation yet. After we have 3-4 months of stability at a certain level (be it 6k, 5k or even 2k) then we can talk of breakouts (in any direction). Everything else are just bull traps. The direction WILL NOT change before the following are true: a consolidation was reached to determine "true" value AND some positive news change the trend. Also my hunch is there will be plenty of bad news ahead, more regulation and technological failures. With 2017's adoption come noobs and security problems. A new mgox may be close. Also don't forget what happened in december when fees made BTC unsualble for any real payments and the transaction backlog had half a million unconfirmed transactions in it. The scalability problem hasn't been solved and we are orders of magnitudes away from the speeds/costs of Visa. I'm really sorry for all the people that bought at ATH, your money is most likely lost (unless you are willing to wait it out for several years). I've warned people of this in december and like everybody else that was not super hyped we were called FUDers and crazy people. |
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