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61  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 28, 2014, 10:47:27 PM
Hey all thanks for all your help with my last question..im going to go out on a limb and hope not to get flamed much..heres my problem

I am in the usa and have 2 neptunes...in preparation for neptunes arrival hired an electrician to provide me with a 240 breaker which he gave me 5 220v outlets. I read up on power supplies and decided to go with the recommendations from knc for 3x 850 w psu/neptune, i purchased the Evga supernova G2. The power cord i was supplied with has the 110v configuration 2 verticals and 1 ground(plug) although after speaking with evga customer support they said it was rated 100 to 240v.. my problem is my local electrician said there are no 220v outlets which can take the power cord i have.
The electrican said he would cut the end of the cord i was supplied by evga and attach the 220v plug...is this safe I DONT WANNA BURRN DOWN MY HOUSE ..thanks all

Same level of safety if correct plugs are properly installed.
Having your electrician change the ends is no more dangerous than having the same guy install the outlets.
Plugs that have screw terminals for the wires are better than molded plugs if you consider they can be reused/repaired.
I'd go with whatever gets the miner hashing soonest, that is also safe, unless there is a huge price difference.


YMMV
Smiley

Did this myself...made my own 220 box and chopped the plugs off and used the 220 plugs been running stable and cool for a few months now...on eBay there is special 220 plus with c13 connectors on them if your really picky

By code 220v connections require a 30A circuit and 10-2 wire. A 120v/15A circuit uses 14-2 wire.

If you burn down your house because didn't have licensed electrician wire your 220v circuits your insurance company will simply walk away because they and are allowed to.

So is it worth the risk?

'Code' ends @ the wall plug.

You're saying that the wires that came with the PSUs designed for 110VAC will be too dangerous?
I think you missed electricity 101.
The size of wire needed depends on current not voltage.
The insulation on the wire must also be apropriate for the voltage.
They will be carrying 1/2 the current @ 220VAC that they would be @ 110VAC.
I doubt you will find 110 VAC wire that is not also properly 'insulated' for 220VAC.
Listen to the known pro with a license on the line (your electrician).


YMMV
Smiley
62  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 28, 2014, 08:41:11 PM
Hey all thanks for all your help with my last question..im going to go out on a limb and hope not to get flamed much..heres my problem

I am in the usa and have 2 neptunes...in preparation for neptunes arrival hired an electrician to provide me with a 240 breaker which he gave me 5 220v outlets. I read up on power supplies and decided to go with the recommendations from knc for 3x 850 w psu/neptune, i purchased the Evga supernova G2. The power cord i was supplied with has the 110v configuration 2 verticals and 1 ground(plug) although after speaking with evga customer support they said it was rated 100 to 240v.. my problem is my local electrician said there are no 220v outlets which can take the power cord i have.
The electrican said he would cut the end of the cord i was supplied by evga and attach the 220v plug...is this safe I DONT WANNA BURRN DOWN MY HOUSE ..thanks all

Same level of safety if correct plugs are properly installed.
Having your electrician change the ends is no more dangerous than having the same guy install the outlets.
Plugs that have screw terminals for the wires are better than molded plugs if you consider they can be reused/repaired.
I'd go with whatever gets the miner hashing soonest, that is also safe, unless there is a huge price difference.


YMMV
Smiley
63  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 28, 2014, 02:46:00 PM
Now that I have my B2 KNC Miner what PC power supplies will work best, and should I buy 3 lower wattage ones as supposed to 2 higher wattage PSUs?

You've been waiting this long for the unit, why on earth are you just trying to figure out how to power it now?

Because like you said I have been waiting a long time for it to ship, now that it's shipped and arrived I need to figure out how to power it up without it catching fire. lol



If you get ATX PC PSU's you might consider NOT getting modular ones.
The extra connectors is just another possible point of failure.
(this would prolly require more smaller ones, as big ones are often modular)


YMMV
Smiley

So you wouldn't recommend two of these?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011

I don't see any PC non-modular PSU's on the market in Canada. The only way I could get a non-modular is to buy something from IBM, Dell or HP but the cost would out weigh any and all hopes to recoup all of the cost or part of it. Smiley


Use what you can get your hands on quickly.
Just keep in mind that modular is not 'better' if you have the choice.
The EVGA looks like it will work.
If I had an unpowered 3.5T @ home I would use whatever I could have installed in 2 hours!
Each possible day delay you could spend $50 more and come out even considering that is close to what you could mine in a day.
It is a VERY subjective decision involving YOUR budget and shipping time etc.

I use two (IBM) DPS-2000BB 2kWatt PSU per Neptune. (220VAC)
They are only USD $50.00 each with free shipping.
Add breakoutboards, fan, and cables and it's about $130 per 2kW.
I started with homemade connectors on the PSUs.
https://i.imgur.com/epKz23R.jpg

Some consider a 4kW rail too big for safe home use.
It _IS_ a valid concern if miner are near flamables.


YMMV
Smiley
64  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 28, 2014, 01:52:52 PM
Now that I have my B2 KNC Miner what PC power supplies will work best, and should I buy 3 lower wattage ones as supposed to 2 higher wattage PSUs?

You've been waiting this long for the unit, why on earth are you just trying to figure out how to power it now?

Because like you said I have been waiting a long time for it to ship, now that it's shipped and arrived I need to figure out how to power it up without it catching fire. lol



If you get ATX PC PSU's you might consider NOT getting modular ones.
The extra connectors is just another possible point of failure.
(this would prolly require more smaller ones, as big ones are often modular)


YMMV
Smiley
65  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 26, 2014, 01:37:26 AM


yes, rev 1.0 of my prototyping rats nest.
https://i.imgur.com/9T8lRc2.jpg

YMMV
Smiley
Looks great, how big is the radiator for this thing and what is that bottle for?

Two 80mm thick, triple 140 radiators. (Alphacool)
https://i.imgur.com/itLOTSL.jpg
(not great radiators, too few fins per inch, overpriced also)
I plan to replace with used truck radiator, whatever fits the fan size. Smiley

The bottle is to block air from the middle.
There is much missing in the pic, I don't have open sides.
What is pictured is just as it looked right after I got it and got all PCBs water cooled.
Everything has and will change again soon, major rebuild time approaches.

The PCBs will flip around with all hoses in the center.
I will eliminate as many 90 degree connectors as possible. (a weak point prone to leaks)
New power wires and heat sinks for the VRMs.
I have PCBs for the PSU connectors they did not exist yet when pics were taken.
-> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=637595.0
Still deciding on a case for it,
I'm contemplating a wood cabnet with glass doors.
Or copper pipe and glass for a steampunkish look.
The air flow and air filters design is still fluid also.
I'm looking for a large cool lookin squirrel cage fan to incorporate.
(like what you find in small forced air furnace)

One of the fun things is planning the modding pit stops to be fast as possible.

If I'm lucky I'll get it to look complete once and get pics before changing something.
If I am very very lucky what works well can also look cool.


YMMV
Smiley
66  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 25, 2014, 04:45:11 PM

how about ditching those pci-e and soldering directly to the pcb?? if that piece cant handle the load just get rid of it imo...

Thats what I did on day 1.
https://i.imgur.com/3pVt5ae.jpg
I tested them first on the PCIe then voided warranty.

BTW 2 x 12AWG in each direction still gets warm.
Will replace 2x12AWG with 3x12AWG next maint pitstop.
My plan is to use 2 x 12/3 extension cords for the wire.
(50% more copper plus better flexability)


YMMV
Smiley

EDIT
I use two DPS-2000BB per Neptune @ USD $50.00 each.
(4kW available but only runnin @ 50% of rated output for better efficiency)
https://i.imgur.com/epKz23R.jpg

tolip_wen, you're work is truly extraordinary. I see the pipes - are you water cooling the chips, too?

yes, rev 1.0 of my prototyping rats nest.
https://i.imgur.com/9T8lRc2.jpg

YMMV
Smiley
67  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 25, 2014, 02:33:33 PM

how about ditching those pci-e and soldering directly to the pcb?? if that piece cant handle the load just get rid of it imo...

Thats what I did on day 1.
https://i.imgur.com/3pVt5ae.jpg
I tested them first on the PCIe then voided warranty.

BTW 2 x 12AWG in each direction still gets warm.
Will replace 2x12AWG with 3x12AWG next maint pitstop.
My plan is to use 2 x 12/3 extension cords for the wire.
(50% more copper plus better flexability)


YMMV
Smiley

EDIT
I use two DPS-2000BB per Neptune @ USD $50.00 each.
(4kW available but only runnin @ 50% of rated output for better efficiency)
https://i.imgur.com/epKz23R.jpg
68  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 23, 2014, 02:15:56 AM
I don't live in the Unite States.

Bummer, (regarding tax and customs fees)

I had assumed incorrectly from your statement that it was in the US already.

YMMV
Smiley
69  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 22, 2014, 10:05:35 PM
I can stand paying $500 for a Neptune in duty and taxes but not $2100. It has to be reasonable, so I will let UPS process it but if it comes to me with some stupid ridiculous price I am going to have to say NO! lol

I just got off the phone with UPS they say that KNC marked the value my Neptune at $10k, so that would be HST I believe, $1300 plus duty.

To date I have not heard of a US customer needing to pay anything extra.

It seems like you are basing expectations on foreign customs/tax laws.

I hope you are pleasantly suprised re:shipping and taxes.
2 Sat. and 1 Nep here, in US, I never paid extra @ the door for package.

Thx for sharing the order and shipping info.


YMMV
Smiley

70  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 19, 2014, 06:51:08 AM

hahaha too true...i hate to see people getting burnt in the pre-order game and it makes me even more angry when certain manufacturers do not abide by laws regarding consumer rights or refund obligations. However there is one quick answer to this STOP... I say it again STOP just STOP STOP STOP STOP STOPPPPP clicking yes to pre-order nonsense. All you are really doing is locking your money up for 6-12 months and promoting this as common practice in the mining industry. If a manufacturer wants to make a miner then they can use their own bloody money or seek capital by selling shares or acquiring loan financing or by playing the lotto for all I care. If they still can't find the money then they just should not be manufacturing miners at all.

BTC is capitalism in it's purest form.

I find it humorous that folks expect the reward without the risk.

I also find it humorous that some feel obligated to TELL others how they SHOULD act.
That is the domain of religion and/or collectivism not capitalism.

Playing the capitalist game by religious rules may not be too wise.

YMMV
Smiley
71  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 14, 2014, 06:17:34 PM

Please don't believe KnC's lies. Here is an independent report about SP30 power consumption:


The numbers from KnC about KnC miners power consumption are verified many times by users.
You can call it lies but it is fact.

Are KnC lying about Spoon numbers?


YMMV
tolip
72  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [PREORDER] DPS-2000BB 2000W Server PSU Interface Board on: August 05, 2014, 09:58:46 PM
Anyone have a calculation of home many DPS-2000BB can be run on a 30A 240V circuit?

@ full power one PSU pulls about 8.6A (@ 238VAC)
2 PSU for same load is same AC load of 8.6A.

It is not how many PSU's attached to AC, it is the load on PSU's that is important.

EX: 4 2kW PSU for a 4kW 'load' would be OK as each PSU would be @ 50% of output power.

YMMV
Smiley
73  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 04, 2014, 07:32:08 AM
All I did was tell Searing he did not need to replace his PSU because he has Y's coming...

and the sharp sticks appear poking one another.
One big happy fambly Smiley

IMneverHO
EVERYONE SHOULD LOOK @ THEIR CABLES to 'KNOW' what AWG is used.
Things change and not all are created equal, even with same model #.
Blanket statements about models, brands, AWG etc. should be verified if possible.

The whole consumer modular PSU issue sux!
I already owned my LAST(never again) modular PCIe PSU for a miner long before the Nep shipped.
It is a SAFETY issue not limited to use with any brand of miner.

2kW server PSU delivered to door USD $50
Breakout board for 2kW PSU USD $60
(DIY folks can use $15 connector and solder wires direct)
16AWG PCIe cables ~$5 each.
Power cable for PSU USD $10
You also need a fan to cool the PSU $20

I use 4kW(2 2kW PSU) per Nep for 92% PSU efficiency.
I can run a nep on 1 PSU if I need to. <<--not recommended

The DPS-2000BB from ebay (watch out for shipping costs!)
The breakout board from sidehack/Gekkoscience.
PCIe cables from sidehack or CABLEZ.

The preorder period is over, he is assembling and shipping
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=637595.0

The only downside is the 2kW PSU are 220VAC.
For an extra ~$100 you could MAKE 220VAC @ home in the USA with two 110VAC outlets.
(The biggest cost is 12/3 extension cords you may already have)
Many 120VAC folks already use extension cords, same as DIY 220VAC.

There are also 750W server PSU solution bundles available.
4 @ 750 for a nep gives you one spare in a pinch.

IMneverHO
it is the better solution also @ lower total cost!

If your 'Plan A' does not include a 'Plan B' (spares when possible) it is a flawed Plan A.
Unless you just mine as a hobby...............

YMMV
Smiley
74  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: August 02, 2014, 04:48:57 PM

well frack....I did get the cables from cablez on this thread to beef up the corsair1200i with the Y plug arrangement but likely I will just eat a new power supply and use
the 1200i on some other less finicky baby miner of some sort in the future....( i may mine but it will be for fun and itty bitty miners....www.coindesk.com and just buying
coin from now on ...is looking very 'tranquil' after all this drama with pre-orders etc)

anyway recommend the cablez cables...sturdy...look like they will do the job ..but coward that I am ..hopefully....we will have some kinda consensus on a 'real'
power supply solution before the beasts show up (Titan) at the door ....like a real fix as a novel idea would be nice that over compensates and is hefty enough
a fix to satisfy us all by KNC (hey I can dream right?) Smiley

(knock wood)

Searing

ps cablez link below

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8038936#msg8038936
 

LOL, do not get buried in the wreckage of your future.

If you HAVE the Y adapters and use 2 18AWG PCIe cables you will be OK.
This also helps overcome a limitation with the 1200i 'rails'.

If you inspect your cables you may find,
the cables with 2 PCIe ends have 16AWG to the first PCIe,
and 18AWG to the second.
If you have such cables, only use the first 16AWG connector.

If you do NOT have Y adapters use 16AWG minimum PCIe cables.
2 PCIe @ 16AWG to Y adapters is even better.

YMMV
Smiley
75  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: July 30, 2014, 09:29:24 PM

I also agree that 3.4th at just over 2000 watts is correct out of the box stock.  Still using the original firmware. On my Neptune I get 3.4ghs one one antec 1300w psu I have 3/5 pulling 1250@120v watts and on the other 1300w 2/5 and controller pulling 780 watts@120v

As for spondoolies speed 4.45 seems to be the average at this time.

And I will add the new BFL monarch pricing as a new line. There are still a few who paid a primium for aug 2013 monarch pre-orders.

I notice you have 2 cubes pulling 390 each @ wall assume controller rides for free.
Your 3 cubes pull ~415 each no freeloader controller.
390 x 3 would be 1170 W.
If you moved one of the 3 over you could determine if it is,
A individual PSU efficiency issue,
a PSU near max is much lower efficiency on both or,
a hungry cube.

YMMV
Smiley
76  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: July 30, 2014, 07:03:53 PM
With the new results out from spondoolies, below is the updated Hardware comparison chart/document.


Thank you for the reference.

From my admittedly biased position I'd say the average Nep is 3.4T  at a squink below 2kW.
Completely stock PARTS and tuned gets ya to 3.5T @ 2kW.
3.55-3.58T is doable with some added airflow, same 2kW @ wall BTW.
(the gains are lower errors not faster clocks)

To accurately compare would require seperating 110VAC from 220VAC PSU.
Also need to take into account PSU efficiency and it's % loading.

Ideally all units tested on same PSU.
Next would be all units mesured under 'hopefully' similar conditions.
Next would be at least reporting the conditions during measurement.

The reality is we don't have the luxury.
The boxes are or should be too busy hashing to stop for ideal testing.

I have no idea what 'average' is but I have better numbers.
I am also under the impression from posted 'Advanced' pages that my numbers are not ununual.

Repeating, I know I have a biased opinion so take this post as just that, OPINION.
I'd say 3.4 @ 2kw is very common for typical customers.
My numbers for reference,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8053504#msg8053504

Please note, I don't think your collection is biased, just that my opinion must be as I own one.

Very well done long term effort!!!
I appreciate your contribution.
Thank you for your time.

YMMV
Smiley
77  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: July 29, 2014, 07:30:35 PM
I can't be that "lucky"

You're not lucky, you're failing to measure it correctly.

The chips run 300w or so each stock; how do you think you're getting from 220v AC to 0.7v DC with 220w/<15% total loss? Fairy dust and magic beans?

u27
Yeah, our digital equipment isn't as smart as you; did you even bother to look at the pics and screenshots??
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8071091#msg8071091
Yeah yeah, the pool is wrong, the GUI is wrong, and the Kill-o-watt reader is all wrong 'cause you said so.

..SNIP..

I'd guess your VAC is really 231 @ miner not 220.
You neglected to show ASIC total Watts in pic.
Still good numbers, 3.42T is best possible @ 475.

AND/OR

The current clamps have a % accuracy in their specs.
Worst case is low end and 15A is low end for a typical 200-600A clamp.
Unless you have calibrated yours and know,
go with worst case and add that % to total for safety.

The VRM's have an accuracy spec also.
+ or -  2.5A per VRM @ 1.0 VDC output
(spec is @0-40A, no claim made for 50A conditions on 40A part)
http://archive.ericsson.net/service/internet/picov/get?DocNo=28701-EN/LZT146435&Lang=EN&HighestFree=Y
Bottom of page 7.

So ALL numbers from miner are just ballpark.

If it were linear, 475MHz is 5% below 500MHz.
285W is 5% below 300W, you are (x)W higher ~290.
That is the price for hot VRMs IMneverHO!
Unless the ASIC is more 'efficient' @ 500 than 475.
Stranger things HAVE happened but not often.

Just like the LM75 issue, not perfect status reporting but they run! Smiley

YMMV
Smiley
78  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: July 27, 2014, 06:44:29 PM
Hello,

Can someone please tell me what is exact wattage of 1 Neptune brick at the wall (in Europe) using branded PSU, without any overclocking, at stock speed (as advertised)? And what is exact hashrate of the device (average) on panel and on mining pool?
I would like to add this device to my small chart, showing efficiency of various ASIC miners. Thank you!

Total is 2000 Watt @ wall.
(238VAC x 8.4A)
3.55 TH/s.

If by "brick" you mean 'cube' divide each number by 5.
400W @ wall
700GH/s
~1.75 GH/s per Watt
or
~0.57 Watt per GH/s


If you are interested in the 20nm ASIC itself, subtract 25% from Watt @ wall
300W @ ASIC
700GH/s
~2.33 GH/s per Watt
or
~0.43 W per GH/s

YMMV
Smiley
79  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: July 26, 2014, 05:45:51 PM
I do make adapters that would allow the for the use of 1200i PSUs with Neptunes and most likely Titans, Searing.  It just uses two PCIe cables instead of one and that bypasses the over current protection.
Definitely cheaper than buying whole new sets of PSUs.  They are in the wild now and no reported issues so far.  Check my post history in this thread for a pic.

ok will do so ...should probably just get the adapters now..for future use...likely this will come up again on another piece of equipment anyway and I already
have the corsair 1200I so wtf

ah the joys of 'stuff'

Searing


The Cables way is SAFER also.
This applies to any consumer PSU with PCIe connected to KnC 2014 miner.

YMMV
Smiley
80  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Hacking The KNC Firmware: Overclocking on: July 25, 2014, 10:13:07 PM
Another slightly updated list of handy Neptune commands.
They do not change anything on miner.

Code:
api-cgminer
api-cgminer | grep MHS
api-cgminer | grep av
# get rid of the long line at the top
api-cgminer | grep -v Reply | grep  av
# slightly different output adds cgminer elapsed time in seconds
api-cgminer devs
# some different info
api-cgminer estats
api-cgminer estats | grep -v Reply | grep coremap | sed  s/..................../\&\\n/ | sed s/..................../\&\\n/g
# view LM75(PCB) temp and VRM info
waas -g all-asic-info
# just specific details
waas -g all-asic-info | grep I
waas -g all-asic-info | grep T
waas -g all-asic-info | grep V
waas -g all-asic-info | grep F
waas -g all-asic-info | grep tem
# Add ASIC# to specific details
waas -g all-asic-info | grep -e I -e asic
waas -g all-asic-info | grep -e T -e asic
waas -g all-asic-info | grep -e F -e asic
# if you noticed the 'estats' above did not finish last 4 die
# you can kinda hunt for sleepers on 5th ASIC (crude method)
# very subjective
asic info 5 0
asic info 5 1
asic info 5 2
asic info 5 3
# just the core displayed 18 rows of 20 core
asic info 5 0 | grep Want | sed  s/"Want work: "// | sed s/..................../\&\\n/g
# It's that or 9 rows of 40 IMneverHO
# add 20 more dots to the line of dots above for 9x40
asic info 5 0 | grep Want | sed  s/"Want work: "// | sed s/......................................../\&\\n/g
# with the above 'asic' commands run it, wait a few seconds, hit the up arrow and enter to run it again
# You can see the asterisks march along for working core
# if you have some that never move they might be sleepers
# I think if it is repeated too often it might slightly impact thruput to that die till cgminer catches up

I keep a file on miner for reference and  cut/paste commands.
Re-running a command is just a matter of finding it with the up arrow.
The sed stuff is crude and sub-optimal but 'almost' not cryptic.
Linear method applied, shortcuts exist but complexity can rise fast when you mix and match.

Different Tangent...
I got the Altera JTAG clone thingy today.
It's time for me to put up or shut up re: JTAG
Smaller Freq steps in useful range will totally depend on max "Fvco" on the ASIC.
http://www.altera.com/support/devices/pll_clock/basics/pll-basics.html
We know the input is 25MHz so it is a matter of how many bits adjustment available for "M".

EDIT. deleted incorrect confusing statement regarding step size.

I also have my alternate 'flexible' JTAG thingy ironed out.
I may use that to sniff the ribbon cable traffic instead of storage scope if it is fast enough.
Time to gut the Hoopiter and scavenge a controller. (sniffle)
I spent the interim searching for ways to reduce power consumption and reduce HW%.
Nuthin concrete but still have unexplored ideas up me sleeve.

So far cooling the VRM is the best result worth noting.
Volt adjustment can add just a tad too.


YMMV
Smiley

P.S.
Way way way off topic but possibly humorous to some.
Life decided I needed a break from my routine.
My cat came home in middle of night with a face full of skunk spray.
Direct hit to the mouth and eyes.
I managed to irrigate her eyes/face for a few minutes without a single scratch or bite.
When bathed with just eye safe flea shampoo the stink only lasted a day.
Makes me wonder if it was a cheapo alternative used by a human.
I have handled refined mercaptin and a small drop lasts for weeks.
(In a laboratory setting, I would never inflict it on any living thing)
Either way I hope my cat paid attention in class because a lesson was paid for and delivered.
Not sure what my lesson was but I know there is one because I paid a small price too.
It probably has to do with radiator placement by screen door.
Does my Neptune attract critters?
Just an hour ago I discovered a neighbor cat wanting in.
Yee Haa! Life has surprises enough for everyone!
I wonder what the "skunk's" version of the story is.
Smiley
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