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1  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Trump Fills Stadiums; Bush Fills Banquet Halls on: August 22, 2015, 11:03:37 AM
Obama proved the constitution doesn't mean much anymore.
That has nothing to do with Trump. Changing the subject to someone else only shows weakness.


Quote
But to be honest, Id bet most Americans would be in favor of changing birthright citizenship.

And what you hate is that trump is saying what millions upon millions of us want to hear, and it's the exact opposite of the left.
No, your kidding? The Right wanting to change the Constitution? Never heard of such a thing. I thought the Constitution for the Right-wing was like a surrogate to the Bible? Only when it's convenient right?
2  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Trump Fills Stadiums; Bush Fills Banquet Halls on: August 22, 2015, 10:52:43 AM
Jeb Bush is a milquetoast and a homo. He's an entitled spoiled brat with a god complex.
I hope Trump (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)slaps him into obscurity.

I fail to see Trump slapping anyone into obscurity with his false promises and his gross ignorance on so many fronts. Saying he's ending birth right citizenship while being clueless on what the 14th explicitly says, puts him at the top of the heap for the best bs candidate for the GOP;http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lessons-for-trump-from-a-14-yr-old-girl-509101635878
3  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Trump Fills Stadiums; Bush Fills Banquet Halls on: August 22, 2015, 10:50:09 AM
LoL the irony of a liberal saying "the constitution doesn't allow that"
That's it? That's all you have? So much for locking horns and debating the facts right? Like I said, Trump wouldn't know the truth if it ran over him. The mans a joke and he proved it by promising something he can't deliver. He's just a mouth piece for the useless idiots who need to here from one.
4  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Trump Fills Stadiums; Bush Fills Banquet Halls on: August 22, 2015, 10:44:47 AM
Ok first off illegal immigration is an issue that the people want to see ended. In order to chance that 14th he only needs 34 states to get the green light on that. 34 states, most of them will vote for that If he wants to repeal the 14th he will get that Number 2. The courts have never said if the 14th applies to illegals aliens. The 14th says all persons. They haven’t defined what person’s means. There are two cases that are going through two different federal apples, the 7th and 2nd. But there was an illegal that got caught with fire arms. His lawyer’s calmed he was entitled to that under the 2nd. 2nd courts said no he isn’t “people” as far as citizenship goes, the 7th disagrees with that saying he is. Lucky enough the Supremes are more then likely to take this up. So either they will rule that illegals are indeed “persons” as defined what the 14th says or they are not.
Lol! Nice try, but all that rambling isn't going to change a thing. There is no ambiguity or misunderstanding as to what a person is. That is why there has never been any challenges to the 14th as it relates to human beings born in this country. A person is a human being whether he or she is illegal or not has no relevance to the law itself. Everyone knows this. So while your argument is dead in the water, you surely are not that naive enough to know it will just miraculously change.
5  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Trump Fills Stadiums; Bush Fills Banquet Halls on: August 22, 2015, 10:38:18 AM
I think people are getting tired of the BS from DC from both sides. Trump is speaking the truth.
Sorry, but he is not speaking the truth when he says he is going to end birth right citizenship, because he can't. The Constitution will not allow it; http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lessons-for-trump-from-a-14-yr-old-girl-509101635878 So, when it comes to bs, you won't find one that'll feed you more of it than Trump.
6  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: BiPolarBob's Tell-A-Joke Round #1 (Prize: 0.12345 btc) on: August 22, 2015, 10:05:13 AM
Teacher: "Kids,what does the chicken give you?"
Student: "Meat!"
Teacher: "Very good! Now what does the pig give you?"
Student: "Bacon!"
Teacher: "Great! And what does the fat cow give you?"
Student: "Homework!"
7  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 06:40:27 PM
My take is that it would ignore the laws of economics to say that any change in the MW would have no effect on MW employment.

On the other hand, economics also recognizes the concept of demand elasticity -- the fact that for some goods a small change in price has a big effect on demand, while on others, a large change in price only has a small effect on demand.

The demand for low price labor seems to be fairly inelastic -- that is, an increase in the price of labor (e.g. the MW) has a moderately smaller effect on demand for low end labor.

Thus, for example, we have seen periods (e.g. the mid 1990s) of significant MW increases with little or no apparent effect on MW employment. However, there is certainly a level where the higher cost will have a greater effect on employment.
That would work if the economy was functioning normally, but say there is a fall in demand and workers are unemployed and factors stop production. Then there is a clear fall in demand and companies have to take cost cutting measures, at this point there are generally two options for employers cut wages, or cut jobs. At this point since the fact that the price of low end labour is inelastic doesn't matter as demand has fallen. This is where the minimum wage is a problem, it acts as a legal limit to wage cuts.
8  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 06:34:05 PM
Again, "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs"
People have different needs and different values, but the point here is to define what we mean when we say need. Here that's having a minimum quality of life and avoiding poverty.
9  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 06:33:36 PM
again, you are allowing govt to be your parent or overlord. Who are they to decide whether or not I NEED an IPhone 6 plus, or if I NEED 2 weeks in Hawaii ?

So, it seems that you are OK with the govt determing what are the needs of the individual.
There is an easy way to determine this, and that's exactly what has been mentioned in the quote I keep including. A living wage should allow an individual to afford a minimum of things such as education and entertainment. This of course also refers to workers on the bottom quartile who generally are the most at risk of poverty. When we say that an individual needs something we mean needs a minimum while also avoiding poverty. Consumerism, which is subjective, isn't included. Whether you need an extra week of holiday doesn't matter when what you need is defined as that which allows you to avoid poverty.
10  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 06:23:57 PM
again, some consultant firm gets to determine what a worker needs to live in an acceptable lifestyle? Why should said consultants get to decide if the worker should have a 70 inch TV? If the boss can have the big TV then so too should all employees.

Why should I accept a job washing cars and find out that I can't afford to buy the cars that I'm washing?
Less a consultant firm, more an economic institute. This has nothing to do with consumerism, cars televisions, or what they want. If it was based on what people wanted then the living wage would probably be much higher. It's all about what people need to live a basic lifestyle. That is to say one in which they aren't threatened by poverty.
11  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 06:20:43 PM
You keep dancing

who gets to determine what is "acceptable" ?
Organisations who carry out economic analysis:



Quote
If a worker becomes a parent and has twins, should the employer immediately increase salary because the strain of 2 extra mouths requires additional income?

No, because the living wage is only done on a per person basis. Having children would entitle the worker to childcare benefits.
12  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 06:17:06 PM
Well a blatant diversion and dodge attempt. What a surprise.

Notice I did not ask you to prove that "all studies" should increasing MW increases unemployment. I asked to prove your claim that "most studies" say this, as you claimed.

And that Republican piece from 1995 is the best you can come up with? Again, no surprise.

Quote
The employment effect of the minimum wage is one of the most studied topics in all of economics. This report examines the most recent wave of this research –roughly since 2000–to determine the best current estimates of the impact of increases in the minimum wage on the employment prospects of low-wage workers. The weight of that evidence points to little or no employment response to modest increases in the minimum wage.
http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf

If the minimum wage rises marginally above inflation then of course it won't result in unemployment as rising prices, offset rising wages and therefore it's hard to argue against it. The problem come when you have a hike in the minimum wage, like the proposal to raise the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour. However there can still be some problems say the economy is in recession, and there's a fall in demand. You have to options, reduce wages or cut jobs. In the UK wages were quite flexible during the great recession and so offset a fall in jobs. In the US unemployment rose to a higher level than in the UK. Reducing wages is probably better than cutting jobs, but if your workers are on a minimum wage then there's no flexibility.
13  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 06:11:39 PM
In public policy, a living wage is the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet their needs that are considered to be basic.[1] This is not necessarily the same as subsistence, which refers to a biological minimum, though the two terms are commonly confused. These needs include shelter (housing) and other incidentals such as clothing and nutrition. In some nations such as the United Kingdom and Switzerland, this standard generally means that a person working forty hours a week, with no additional income, should be able to afford the basics for quality of life, food, utilities, transport, health care, minimal recreation, one course a year to upgrade their education, and childcare. However, in many cases education, saving for retirement, and less commonly legal fees and insurance, or taking care of a sick or elderly family member are not included. It also does not allow for debt repayment of any kind. In addition to this definition, living wage activists further define a living wage as the wage equivalent to the poverty line for a family of four. This is two adults working full-time with one child age 9 and another of age 4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage
14  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 06:11:07 PM
all fluff: no meat on the bone

I gave specifics with specific questions

Who gets to determine what is included in a living wage? To some, having cable tv with all of the sports channels is a necessity. Having an I-Phone and annual upgrades is a neccessity. A fairly new car for each driver is a necessity.

Why should a person working the snack bar at the theater have to live in a studio apartment sharing rent with another snack bar employee while the general manager owns a 3 bedroom home? They both put in the hours so why should the manager own a home? The only solution is to reduce the income of the general manager and reduce his/her standard of living downward, because history shows that govt policies do not lift up people. Do you agree that there should be equity in lifestyle of the general manager and the snack bar employee if they work the same number of hours?
The organisation which calculates the living wage was mentioned in the article. The term "decent life" is obviously subjective, no one has the same values and therefore what someone considered valuable won't be considered as being valuable by someone else. This is what Conservatives mean when they focus on individuals. However there is a way to calculate what people can be able to live on comfortably.

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/research/crsp/mis/
The methods used for calculating the living wage can be found here.
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/research/crsp/mis/thelivingwage/
15  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 05:13:20 PM
the concept that all jobs should provide a "living wage" again becomes subjective. Who gets to define what is a "living wage"

One can try and say the poverty level but someone needs to put meat on the bone. Does a living wage mean a car less than 5 years old for each driver?
Does it mean a separate bedroom for each family member?

Must all TVs be at least 42 inches?

should they have air conditioning?

If they have children, should their salary be increased for every child they choose to have?

In other words, the person selling you tickets at the theater who has 3 children should be paid a lot more than the 16 year old teenager. Would that not be "fair" and provide the "living wage" ?
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-20204594
16  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 05:00:55 PM
the term "decent" is also subjective. You could use the term "competitive" but that would be associated with a market driven wage as opposed to govt mandated.
I'd have a bigger problem with the term competitive. In the UK there is this idea of a living wage, which is essentially enough to live comfortable on. In most of the country its around 7.20 pounds and hour and in London its just over 9. When I say decent wages I mean the living wage. What is competitive is harder to explain. Wages in companies can be held back by "stickiness" which can lead to a situation in which workers are overpaid relative to their productivity which means that what workers are paid isn't always determined by supply or demand.
17  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 04:56:48 PM
you conflated "minimum wage" with "fair wages", why?

The term "fair" is subjective (except county fairs). To a 16 year old who greets you at the restaurant, earning $8 per hour is fair to them because they know that it's an entry-level job. Perhaps to another person with rent and a car payment they might think $20 per hour is fair. They might see no difference in why they should be paid less per hour than the nurse at the hospital.
It was a bad choice of words, I should have said decent instead of fair. The minimum wage doesn't have much to do with fairness and it wouldn't be a fair wages for certain industries. Things such as supply, demand, job description and skills determine what is a fair wage.
18  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 04:56:10 PM
Minimum wage is a political ploy that decreases prosperity and drives inflation, that in turn creates more dependant on the government voters (guess who they vote for?)
Since the UK first introduced the minimum wage there has been no significant rise in inflation as a result of it but a dramatic hike might raise inflation. My solution wouldn't be a dramatic hike to 15 dollars an hour as has been proposed in some areas of the US, I would propose a steady rise in the minimum wage which is above inflation year on year.

One reason I support the minimum wage is due to benefits. Here in the UK we had something called tax credits where those considered in need of in work benefits could have the government top up their pay packets. This had three bad effects, the first was that the system was badly managed and prone to overpaying, those in the lowest income quartiles who received tax credits would then receive a letter demanding that the amount by which they were overpaid be paid back. This was often in the thousands. The second problem was that people were so afraid of being overpaid that they stopped claiming meaning that billions were wasted. The third was that if the government subsidised pay then companies could get away with keeping wages low. Tax credits were ended in the last budget and were replaced with a promise of a minimum wage of 9 pounds an hour by 2020. This solved all three issues.
19  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 04:55:14 PM
The greatest myth about the minimum wage among the majority of it's supporters is that every business owner sleeps on a king size mattress stuffed with $100 bills because he/she won't pay their employees a "fair living wage"
That might be true of small-medium sized businesses who suffer most from a hike in the minimum wage but not for large corporations. While profits have soared since the recession growth in wages has been much slower.
20  Economy / Economics / Re: Minimum wage. on: August 21, 2015, 04:54:13 PM
We’ve had innumerable people who have never run a business in their lives trying to tell us that the effects of a minimum wage rise can only be glorious. So it’s refreshing to hear the views of someone who will actually have to deal with the effects of a minimum wage rise: the CEO of Wendy’s. Amazingly, they’re not predicting that their newly better paid employees are going to spend so much more at their stores that their profit increases. Nor are they predicting that the rise in aggregate demand is going to do the same. Finally, they’ve not broken down in tears, agreed that the shareholders are just too greedy, and insisted that the capitalist pigs will just have to do without so that the workers get their fair share.

No, instead they predict that that their restaurants will have to increase prices and reduce the amount of labor that they use.

That is, make all consumers worse off and also make some people unemployed. This isn’t the bright new dawn we were promised about a rise in the minimum wage, is it? It is what people like me have been predicting but remarkably few people seemed willing to listen to us.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/08/11/wendys-explains-what-really-happens-with-a-minimum-wage-rise-job-losses/

If raising the minimum wage doesn't lead to an increase in productivity then the only other choice is to either raise prices, which can often be difficult due to competition or reduce the workforce. Those whose productivity doesn't justify a rise in the minimum wage will find themselves unemployed.
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