Agreed then. I misread what you were trying to say.

I agree with the others that say that the tally stick and bitcoins are not similar at all. In fact, they are opposites. The tally stick was a government imposed currency. Bitcoin is a voluntary currency. Nobody forces you to accept it like the tally sticks.

A better analogy for bitcoin could be the private mints of the UK XVII century.

PS: The fact that the king used tally sticks to fight powerfull people in England does not make them legit. The king wanted the power to keep his authoritative regime, to fund wars, etc... There is nothing noble in tally sticks, just another government forcing a currency on the people because it had the swords.

This network has been created differently than the potato mesh idea that you posted. There are nodes and super nodes. They have different functions. Basically the node connects (usually) to a super node, and the super nodes connect between themselves. The reason for this is mainly hardware and easier routing. The nodes are basically simple devices with one antenna that connects to a super node, like the one I just linked previously. Super nodes have different antennas, some directional to connect to other supernodes, and other omni-directional (or partially) so the nodes can connect. The reason for this is that directional antenas only radiate in one direction but get farther away and with better bandwith, so they are used to connect super-nodes. Then they have one or two (or more in some big super nodes) omni-directional that can not radiate km away but allows for local nodes to connect to the super node, because it radiates in all (or some) directions and covers an area. So you basically have the troncal connections between the super nodes and then the nodes connected to the super nodes. As the network started growing there was an effort to create redundant connections between the super nodes, for more bandwith and in case one super nodes goes down temporarely.

This is the reason why the supernodes (more expensive) are sometimes funded through a donation system, where the interested chip in.

The difference with what I have read of the mesh potato network is that with this system you can connect nodes farther away from each other, and the routing is more efficient, allowing for better lag and most probably better bandwith. I have my doubts on how a mesh network can behave in networks with a big number of nodes and covering a big territory, but if you want to cover a big area you need a lot of people adopting it. But this way, you can have a few people in different towns conected between each other, without the need of all the towns in the middle collaborating at the moment. The con is that you have to coordinate the IP addresses of the nodes. In the catalan network this is done through the webpage of the association. You create a node there (they use google maps to place the node) and then you get an IP address, that is usually dettermined by location and the supernode you are going to use, so the super nodes have an easier task routing packages.

If this kind of networks gets popular you can probably create a mixed system, where you keep the super nodes structure but connect to the super node using a local mesh network instead of a registered node. They are trying to do this here in one of the towns where guifi.net is more extended. Their idea is to use the local town government lighting and put the mesh nodes on top (basically because its elevated and already has electricity), so they create a mesh network that gives connectivity to the whole town, and even to your mobile phone or device anywhere in the town. But to do this there has to be a wide acceptance of the project, so I think starting with the node-supernode infrastructure works better initially.

And yes, those system where cheaper before (or my memory fails). I will try to look for the shop where I got the prices. Still 60-70$ one time purchase is afordable. In a few months you have already saved that much by not paying your intenet provider.

PS: Here there is even a optic fiber connection. The guys connected this way obviously dont live in a city where this would be difficult.

Nodes are pretty cheap. If you have someone with a super node near you, you can buy a ready to use device for 30-40 euros (http://shop.openrb.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=140, prices have changed). This devices come with the antenna and the circutis inside a sealed box with a ethernet connection (the electricity comes through the ethernet as well), so you just have to place the device in your roof, pointing to where the other node is and connect the ethernet cable. You have to make some configurations in the machine, that can easily explained and you are set to go. The box is sealed and can go through rain, storms, snow, etc... (although if you leave in a region with extream weather you might want to look at the specifications for max and minimum temperature). Some of this boxes have achieved connections of a few kilometers if they have direct vision between the nodes.

Building a super-node is more expensive, but not as much as you would think. The minimum bill for a decent super node is usually 300-400 euros. This includes a machine capable of handling 4 antennas, and one or two directional antennas to connect to other super nodes, and one or two omni-directional antennas (or similar) for the local nodes. Usually each town or region of a big city needs its own super node.

In Catalunya the network has grown without any type of central or initial funding. People just got together and started creating their nodes. At some point the webpage started a system of voluntary donations to create the super nodes, because at the end they were going to be used for the whole town. But if you get 10 to 20 people in a town to cheap in 20-30 euros you are good to go. This has been used also to create solar powered super nodes on top of mountains (imposible to get electricity there) to connect super nodes that did not have direct vision. You dont really need a lot of planning. Once the network starts growing then some coordination is needed, but is mainly configuration issues. In Catalunya they end up creating a non-profit association to handle this. This is just how they have done it in Catalunya. Maybe in other parts of the world other aproaches work better, but the system is not that expensive.

The software is already developed (linux based) and easy to configure. People in the community is very helping and if you need any type of help I am voluntaring to connect the two groups as translator for any help any USA people would need to start their own network.

What it usually works to attract people initially and start growing the network is for someone to offer a proxy to the internet. The proxy can have the p2p connections blocked (with the exception of bitcoin obviously) so the users dont abuse. A user with a good internet connection or even some bussiness can do this, without any cost (just the burden of having a part of the bandwith used by other people). Offering free (as in free beer) internet for only an initial payment of 30 dollars is a very good deal and a lot of people will be interseted. Once the network is growing, people can start using it to talk by phone and other stuff. In the catalan network there is people thinking about offering a commercial connection to the internet, that could be way cheaper since they dont need to deploy the infrastructure.

This is getting long. If any one interested has any more questions just shoot them, and I will even connect them with some of the more tech savy people around here if needed.

If the MSM wants to slander bitcoin they will find a way (there are many examples of this), so its not good to get obsessed with that issue. That said, I completely agree that the best way to deal with this is just not commenting.

You are comparing bitcoins to dollars, which is not a very stable currency. If the dollars keeps devaluating like it has done in the last decades and the bitcoin-dollar exchange keeps stable it means bitcoins are loosing value.

If someone can open ports in your router it can led to all kind of security holes. There was even a bug in the windows implementation of upnp that allowed anyone in the internet to open a port in your router. Its just not safe to allow automatically opening ports in your router.

This would be a big step towards anonimity and avoiding any government interference on bitcoin. Right now the government controls the internet through regulating the commercial providers, people's access point. But this is a private network, people just connecting to each other with wifi devices in their roofs. It would be impossible for government to control, without going home by home shutting down the devices. It is also a cheap way to have network connectivity and scape the government sponsored corporations that provide internet service right now. In the catalan network there is people providing proxies to access the internet.

Having UPnP enabled in your router is a security suicide. UPnP inside your trusted local network is ok, but I would not use it in your router.

Kiba for scrow. But i wont vote for you again if you dont promise me some wellfare benefits next time!

This is actually a very well written and easy to understand article. One of the best about bitcoin that I have read.

Ja que estem obro un fil per si un altre català s'ha perdut per aquí.

You think Windows Aero is pretty? 

Model: Intel Atom n330 (2 cores, 4 virtual).

OS: Ubuntu 10.04 64bit

Using the -4way option I get half the speed than using no option.

Tryed Bitcoin 3.10 on Ubuntu Lucid 64 bit on Intel Atom 330.

Using the option -4way produces half the hash/s than not using the option. I tried using 1 to 4 (virtual) cores and -4way option produces less than no option always (arround half). Its probably due to the Intel thing.

Does your car count kilometers? 

You might be interested in this: http://guifi.net

In reality, which option is more fair is a personal thing. Its subjective. This is why avoiding government impositions is so great. Because both groups can get to try what they think its more fair (or whatever they want). If it was a authoritarian system whether the leaders decide or whether it is voted, only one system could be implemented.

If this guy wants to do the other system, fine. I hope him good as long as the system is voluntary. But that kind of system will only work through government force, and, in my opinion, that is what he is aiming at, hiding it behind nice and moral-sounding arguments. But if he really wants to create and try such a system as a voluntary currency, its fine with me and I hope he succeeds.

No GPL? Unforgivable!!! I am leaving this community at once... 

MIT is considered an open source license by the EFF, right?

Kiba, you forgot to mention that the bitcoin software is open source and GPL. Since we are writing to the EFF I think its important to specify it.