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201  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Here is the fundamental value of Bitcoins. on: June 19, 2011, 04:30:40 PM
Look at the Mt. Gox charts vs. Block chain and you will see that happens.  It will become less and less as the currency spreads out...I hope.

Indeed. I still see a problem with adoption as a currency. Currencies need some stability to work. At the moment if I sit down to eat at that restaurant in NY which accepts BTCs, there is a good chance that I would be paying much more by the end of the meal, so there is no encouragement to spend BTCs. As a merchant, I would be nervous of accepting BTCs if that same meal loses me money.

Stability and liquidity will have to be solved for Bitcoin to work. The problem is that I believe miners are also hoarding, and as far as I can tell, mining is reaching a point where it is more difficult to be profitable. With mining rigs going up, difficulty will jump again, hoarding will continue, etc. You could have a noxious spiral soon.

For the sake of some of the good people of this forum, I sure hope I'm wrong  Smiley

You are right about the fluctuations throughout the day but I am willing to bet that if a retailer was just to take an average it would pan out to be the same as spending all the time trying to calculate the current rate.

I personally like the volatility...some currency traders would agree, some might not...I dislike how the stock market in particular has artificial circuit breakers to stop rapid changes in price...kinda seems like fixing the game...I would rather see things able to crash if they are broken (that gos equally for BTC).
202  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Newly minted idiot on: June 19, 2011, 04:26:43 PM
I really gotta stop coming here. This sounds like a community full of haters. Who gives a shit how much he spent on his investment? Why is he an idiot? Is it cause hes about to smoke half of your rigs? Really can't we just say "nice" and move along, instead of over analyzing his 10k investment (which is joke money to people who have it) and saying how stupid he is?

Y'know the $10k was an illustration that even if he got an INSANE deal on all that gear it's still a huge, huge gamble at this point.

He probably paid retail, there's a fucking newegg box there.

That means he probably actually paid closer to $25-30k, and that's just on the hardware.

He obviously rented office space, too.

Electricity.

Time.

Or he could be like me and just happen to already have a space for his other businesses before he found out about bitcoin...the 3phase industrial power became more important when I started buying rigs...especially in price/kwh.
203  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: How much wattage per outlet? on: June 19, 2011, 04:15:36 PM
my circuit breaker is rated at 25amps.
How many amps will it be safe? I heard someone say 25 amp breaker doesn't mean it will handle 25amps continuously, rather, it means it can handle up to 25amps of instantaneous surge in power usage.

If by "safe" you mean "won't get tripped" then generally the I^n rating should be for continuous use.  I'll assume that you've got at least 14awg on that circuit to be "safe" in the "won't burn my house down" sense of the term. ;-)

Edit: To be on the safe side I'd go with #12 or #10 wire

I personally ran a 6ga 240v line for my rigs...overkill until I hit 15 rigs but the cost was not much higher.
204  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Don't listen to all the propagandists. Mining is fine. on: June 19, 2011, 04:13:24 PM
There may be nothing as fast as the 6990 but you can certainly get rigs with a much better cost/mh/s.


My point is only that with continually increasing difficulty, the BTC/day drops dramatically in a very short time.

If you spend $800 on a rig instead of $1000, sure you get a better rate.  But you're still only getting 0.1 BTC/day with your $800 or $1000 rig in mid August.  Is that 0.1 BTC/day going to pay itself off?  Not at $17/BTC. 

Again...most speculator who have stated the exact same thing in the past ended up being wrong.  Always factoring in difficulty increase but always assuming a stagnant or declining value.  Really though nobody knows what will happen. 
205  Economy / Economics / Re: What is holding you from investing tons of money in this? on: June 19, 2011, 04:09:52 PM
Actually having more money...spent it all on mining rigs.  I know I could have made more investing...I have my reasons for mining.
206  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Don't listen to all the propagandists. Mining is fine. on: June 19, 2011, 04:07:50 PM
I don't know if you realize this but people have been stating the exact same thing as you for over 6mos yet people have still managed to pay off their rigs...you can probably make more money buying stock in an electronics manufacturer as opposed to selling their item but it doesn't mean either way is better...they both have their pluses and minuses...just like mining/investing.

I would have made more investing for sure...doesn't mean mining was stupid...just different methods/risk/end goal.

I would really like to see the price of BTC continue to rise, like it has in the past 6 mo.  If it does, that will help the current adopters to pay off their rigs.

Really though, we seem to be running into a GPU limit.  1.0 Ghash (3 cards) puts out 1.0 BTC/day.  In the next difficulty that rig only puts out .6 BTC/day.  Then, 10 days later, will put out .4 BTC/day.  The amount of media attention and network growth is impressive.  The hardware is not keeping up.  By mid August we're going to have hit a wall in terms of producing BTC simply based on ever-increasing difficulty, and nothing being faster than the 6990.

There may be nothing as fast as the 6990 but you can certainly get rigs with a much better cost/mh/s.
207  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Here is the fundamental value of Bitcoins. on: June 19, 2011, 04:04:16 PM
That is the proper way to go about finding out more.  Typically these suspect posts do not address the matter how you did.

 I'm also seriously concerned by the fact that the system is set to disproportionately favour early adopters, who have way too much power over the exchange rate. You get a single early adopter dumping large volumes, and the value would plummet.


Look at the Mt. Gox charts vs. Block chain and you will see that happens.  It will become less and less as the currency spreads out...I hope.
208  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Don't listen to all the propagandists. Mining is fine. on: June 19, 2011, 04:02:05 PM
By the time these magical ASICs are designed, produced and put in use GPU mining will mostly be inefficient anyway unless the price per BTC increases by A LOT. It takes time to produce such a chip.
Buying equipment for mining NOW would be STUPID. It'd be safer, as an investment, to just buy some bitcoins on the market. However, if you're a miner and have some bitcoins, it would be prudent to urge more people to mine and acquire bitcoins for the sake of increasing the size of our economy despite the impact on your mining profitability in bitcoins.


I don't know if you realize this but people have been stating the exact same thing as you for over 6mos yet people have still managed to pay off their rigs...you can probably make more money buying stock in an electronics manufacturer as opposed to selling their item but it doesn't mean either way is better...they both have their pluses and minuses...just like mining/investing.

I would have made more investing for sure...doesn't mean mining was stupid...just different methods/risk/end goal.
209  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I just got hacked - any help is welcome! (25,000 BTC stolen) on: June 19, 2011, 03:55:22 PM
The official client just needs to be updated to support an encrypted wallet.dat file, would that really be so hard?

Also, Google "AaronBarr Anonymous", I'm sure this is a prank

Probably not hard...but is it needed...most responsible people are already handling their wallet.dat file properly...adding encryption would just add more of a false sense of security (that is...the lengths people go to in order to protect their wallet far exceed some encryption in the client, plus client encryption still would not help against keyloggers...right?)
210  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Here is the fundamental value of Bitcoins. on: June 19, 2011, 03:50:31 PM
I'm not defending the OP (which seems to be indeed trolling).

However, I have noticed that this is a forum with very thin skin, and critics are instantly tarnished as trolls.

I am joining a forum because I find Bitcoin interesting for various reasons, but I'm very skeptical of the fundamentals behind it.

That is the proper way to go about finding out more.  Typically these suspect posts do not address the matter how you did.
211  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I just got hacked - any help is welcome! (25,000 BTC stolen) on: June 19, 2011, 03:48:59 PM
Good point, although I think it's more likely AaronBarr is playing a prank by putting that address in his sig than anything else.

Or allinvain trying to get more attention.
212  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Here is the fundamental value of Bitcoins. on: June 19, 2011, 03:48:23 PM
So, this board does not welcome critics?

Not every Bitcoin critic is an FBI agent, a hater, or a troll. I have serious misgivings about the currency and personally I have joined to enter into discussion about the currency's fundamentals.

Not about the critics...just when it is the same exact pattern over and over it becomes tedious/suspicious.  These people tend to have nothing positive to add in any real way and state nothing that has not been said repeatedly over the last 6 mos.  Most likely everything they are saying can be found in the beginners forum.

I have no issue with discussion but how is this thread a discussion...it is a smear tactic.

Ye ye, every new users take their time to register here just cause they feel compelled to point out all the weaknesses.

Its very strange to me that someone would go through the trouble to register just for that without even mentioning 1 or 2 strong points according to them.

gtfo.

Yep...never a "What has your experience with bitcoin been?" or a "What is this all about?"...always "you are stupid with your pyramid scheme wasting power on fake money, I was ripped off by hackers/mtgox...oh wait its fixed"...granted that was a drastic combination of about 5 posts I have read lately.
213  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I just got hacked - any help is welcome! (25,000 BTC stolen) on: June 19, 2011, 03:44:52 PM
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19395.msg242669#msg242669

A friend just informed me the guy your looking for could be AarronBarr
check out the signature, its the same as the wallet that stole your coins....


Quote
Donation : 1KPTdMb6p7H3YCwsyFqrEmKGmsHqe1Q3jg

Follow me in twitter @aaronbarr


Holy crap...I'd get hold of a forum admin ASAP and get some IP information, then contact the cops if you haven't already so they can subpoena the ISP if necessary.

Do you seriously believe that someone with 5 posts that joined today is really the one?  I don't, my doubts that this "theft" even happened grow by the day.
214  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Here is the fundamental value of Bitcoins. on: June 19, 2011, 03:41:30 PM
So, this board does not welcome critics?

Not every Bitcoin critic is an FBI agent, a hater, or a troll. I have serious misgivings about the currency and personally I have joined to enter into discussion about the currency's fundamentals.

Not about the critics...just when it is the same exact pattern over and over it becomes tedious/suspicious.  These people tend to have nothing positive to add in any real way and state nothing that has not been said repeatedly over the last 6 mos.  Most likely everything they are saying can be found in the beginners forum.

I have no issue with discussion but how is this thread a discussion...it is a smear tactic.
215  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Cooling is SO important! on: June 19, 2011, 03:35:24 PM
I would think humidity is an issue inside a fridge/freezer, not to mention the fridge would probably run non stop until it burns up the compressor.  I can't say i've ever tried that tho lol.

Agreed, you are better off getting a cheap AC unit and building a large box to enclose it in with the AC units cold end facing in, NOT a swamp cooler.  AC units tend to have an air drying effect, which is a positive.
216  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Here is the fundamental value of Bitcoins. on: June 19, 2011, 03:27:44 PM
0.


Great, please send me all your bitcoins so I can cash them out on mtgox...

Clearly he has none...otherwise he wouldn't be here trolling.

Read his 9 posts...again a pattern...awful lot of trouble for his short time on the forum.  Nothing positive to say.  Seems to have just joined to discredit/smear.

The more I read...the more I believe the "tin foil hat conspiracy people".  
217  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin might be getting some profile by The Economist on: June 19, 2011, 03:15:53 PM
http://www.economist.com/node/18836780?story_id=18836780&CFID=172453746&CFTOKEN=17611523

Or that one?
218  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Allinvain $500,000 theft & Black Friday related? CIA / Banker Attacks? on: June 19, 2011, 03:03:31 PM
When you are told something is bad, unprofitable or just plain going to fail enough times you will start to believe it...people spend a lot more time discrediting bitcoin than they do praising it...its pretty obvious that the news articles are biased/not factual.  It gives the appearance of conspiracy for sure...just go try to post in a random forum about bitcoin, there will be someone (possibly more than one) immediately posting trying to "save" people before they get involved in this scam...I have never seen this kind of "concern" before online.  Just what I have noticed.

I think that is more down to the people's ignorance on the matter of bitcoins. I mean you can't blame them, it took me a while too to figure out why I am getting money for running my GPU at 100%. What you can blame them for is spreading information they are not certain about or have not received confirmation on. Look at the original article with Schumer and the other senator. It said bitcoin is "untraceable" so now all these anti-bitcoin idiots keeping repeating that although its not even close to being true, or is taken out of context.

True, although there tends to be a pattern.  Almost, as if you are talking to the same person/group.  Could just be hivemind but that just backs the mass brainwashing argument.  Things are only conspiracy until fact starts to back them...this could go either way.

My thoughts are: Whoever herds the sheep is scared.
219  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: eBay Deleting All Bitcoin Listings on: June 19, 2011, 02:48:27 PM
Just did a search now for bitcoin on ebay and found 82 results.

Edit: One of the sellers doesn't understand what 'micro' means, or is deliberately lying about it's definition:

"I am selling ONE Micro Bitcoin (A Micro Bitcoin is worth 1/100 of a Bitcoin)."


It'll take them time...they will get around to them I am sure.  From my understanding of how they work this process is not fully automated...still requires humans to make the positive distinction...they may use automation to create a list but a human still needs to review that list.

Plus, having dealt with listings in the past there may be a warning while they are listing the item which can be ignored or circumvented (changing keywords), but it does not mean they won't review it/remove it later.
220  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I just got hacked - any help is welcome! (25,000 BTC stolen) on: June 19, 2011, 02:39:35 PM

That means Alice will get isolated and go very hungry after a while.


...except that (granting your very extreme example) Alice could choose at any time to end her self-imposed blacklist, and no one is the worse for wear.

You people are really overthinking this.  It doesn't even have anything to do with bitcoin per se.  It is the same as writing down some addresses on a piece of paper that you don't want to trade with.  Completely non-binding.  The only reason to use a computer is that it's far easier.  Arguing against letting the client keep and update a blacklist for you is like arguing against letting the client compute hashes for you rather than getting out a pencil and paper and doing it yourself.

Maybe a secondary addon/background script but to actually add it to the client...then it becomes something that is the norm and will be something that is abused.  I think bitcoin is fine the way it is...honestly, I don't even see a point in adding wallet encryption when you can do it yourself...but that's just me probably.
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