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Many thanks MJ, I'll mention that when I submit some to them soon, I did link them to a nice PCGS graded Polymerbit note which I'd won recently at Stack's Bowyer when I first approached them re PMG grading for these, so I'm sure that they're aware.
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Sorry, I don't follow what you asked re Heritage repping coins graded by PCGS and others Etc. Heritage offer coins which have been graded by all the main firms of course np, and not just NGC, they happened to choose to use them for my coins on that occasion, maybe because they offered them a better deal than PCGS or something, I don't know the details for why though myself. Big surprise, NGC have just notified me of a huge U turn, so it looks like they are happy to accept Casascius coins, at least, for grading after all now, and would also take notes like Polymerbit on a test trial type basis with no fee if they decided that they couldn't grade submitted ones. Hello Otoh, (real name swapped) I wanted to follow up with you about the submission of physical cryptocurrency notes. We have not graded these cryptocurrency paper notes yet, and the notes would need to be submitted and reviewed in hand by the grading team to confirm if they are eligible for grading. Should they be determined ineligible for grading as an Ineligible Type, the grading fee would not apply.
I also have good news about the physical coin cryptocurrency. While we did not originally accept the coins for collector submissions, I did receive news from the grading team that this has recently changed and we can grade these coins.
If you are interested in submitting coins for grading, you can become a paid member of our Collector's Society through Join NGC Today | NGC (ngccoin.com). You can find more information on how to start submitting coins online at How to Submit.
You’ll need to have a general idea of the value of each coin to help select which grading tier. Grading tiers and fees can be found at Services and Fees | Coin Submissions | NGC (ngccoin.com). These coins can be submitted as US Coins with a tier chosen based on their fair market value.
The value we ask you for is an insurance value, a number you would feel comfortable with in terms of a replacement value if your coin was lost or damaged while with us. We encourage you to be conservative as we do not reimburse you if you overvalue your coin. If your coin was grossly undervalued, we reserve the right to bump it to the appropriate tier.
If you do not wish to sign up for membership, you can find a listing of authorized NGC dealers that can submit the coins on your behalf here: NGC Coin Dealer Locator
If you have any other questions, please let us know. Thank you!
Nicki O.
Customer Service
Certified Collectibles Group
p. (855) Grade10 | (855) 472-3310
collectiblesgroup.com |
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Yeah, I agree 100% and was totally taken by shocked surprise that instead of embracing this new field that they choose not to after such a fine initial well received start, I even offered to submit any further coins again through Heritage rather than directly if that worked better for them, but apparently not, perhaps Heritage will have greater sway with them about grading more, especially as an exclusive (if that's what they want) NGC graded Otoh Collection Part 2 which would be a whole other level in terms of value, rarity and desirability, and as you say during a time of ATH BTC prices and general interest, seems crazy to me their own apparent lack of interest, anyway time will tell, their competitors will be more than happy to take up the opportunities instead of them that's for sure
Also, as you say, it's pretty super cool if that one off grading series of 250 NGC coins became the only cryptos that they do grade for the foreseeable future, or if ever, I doubt that it was planned that way, but it certainly makes those slabs a bit special if so, and no harm that all the buyers are now quids in over the last four months since they won, as are the buyers of the few flipped coins at about three months as well, so very good all round I'd say
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Just to say that I reached out to NGC asking if they'd be prepared to grade some further coins that I have, they took three weeks and a couple of reminders to respond:
Thank you for contacting us. I am sorry we will not be able to grade additional physical coin cryptocurrency. I have confirmed with the NGC team that the coins shown in our article were graded as a one-time special grading for Heritage. There are no current plans to open up grading services to these coins. Again, I am sorry we cannot help with these coins.
I have reached out to PMG to confirm if physical cryptocurrency banknotes would be eligible for submission. I will provide you with an update as soon as possible.
So basically they're not interested, I asked about some Polymerbit notes as well and will update when I've heard back from them on those.
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I shall certainly ask Heritage about this, the problem I imagine though is that ANACS didn't take photos of the coins before it slabbed them. Heritage celebrating the $78,000 record at the top of their latest newsletter: https://coins.ha.com/heritage-auctions-newsletter/world-coin-news-another-heritage-world-record-the-highest-selling-2013-casascius-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-.s?id=6465They also sold earlier this week, by private treaty, for $73,629 each on the singles and $38,314.50 on the half, when the spot price was at $62,629/BTC, before the new bitcoin ATH 2 x 1 BTC MS67 & a 0.5 BTC MS66, which had been bought in by them from the Otoh sale, ie hadn't reached the reserve which Heritage put on them back then |
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That's amazing! Congratulations Otoh, this sale was an absolute hit! This was a win win win for everyone involved. Didn't you say you meant to do another one with Heritage soon? Yes indeed, I am in talks with them now about that, if it goes ahead then there'll be much more variety and rares on offer this next time, I don't want to list more than the present physical crypto collectors market can comfortably absorb, but on the other hand I do want to make a bigger splash with an amazing catalogue, and maybe facilitate some whale/s to make a potential one off world class collection/s in an easy swoop if they liked, and to also allow others to pick up some of the rarer gems that are getting very hard to source nowadays, so I have inventoried for a Part 2 and am awaiting their feedback on that. A lot of the coins I had slabbed by ANACS between 2014 and 2016, most in early 2014, when they were the only game in town for that, so they have great provenance, kind of like the old green label slabs for regular coins from PCGS, and also it wouldn't have been cost effective for anyone to make forgeries back then so that helps, the only issue though is ANACS were very slack and didn't give many of the coin's addresses on their verification links page, or photos of them, they did offer to put this right afterwards but I didn't want to keep shipping them back and forth as they were rising in value a lot, so I'll need to decide if keeping the old slabs, asking Heritage to send photos to ANACS and the addresses for them to add, or to re-slab them with NGC in 'Otoh Collection' slabs instead, I did feel that ANACS graded them rather conservatively back then as well, so it could be that they'd do better now if resubmitted to NGC, but perhaps Heritage will think that maybe the market could prefer them in the old slabs, no idea or preference myself, and I will be guided by them on it all. Very exciting news! Thanks for that update. Hmmmm that is surely quite a predicament you've got yourself in. I would have to agree on your comparison to the green labled slabs w/ PCGS for those crypto ANACS slabs. That is definitely a tough nut to crack. Honestly you might be right though in what you said about them being graded very conservatively and might be better off getting them re-slabbed/re-graded through NGC, as you said. I think just for your namesake alone having them slabbed and labled with your collection pedigree would be more appealing to the collection but on the other hand the ANACS slabs offer a vintage feel and are semi historic being that you can't replace them becuase ANACS doesn't grade crypto anymore (Pity). Good luck with the gathering and careful consideration here! I'm sure this next sale of yours is going to be quite the sight! In my opinion, I feel that any early graded physical crypto that is in an ANACS slab should stay that way... The historical worth far out-weighs any bump up in grade value that you would get auctioning said coin. Many thanks for the input MJ, much appreciated, yep these are early historical slabs, and even though ANACS was a bit of a chaos at that time with the new crypto field that they were the first to try and handle, so they made tons of rookie errors, like not putting Cas addies on the slabs, or uploading photos onto their verification links, which perhaps can be corrected via Heritage now, and even with minor typos on a couple of the addies, it probably would be best as you recommend and to leave them all as is, and I expect that is what Heritage will also advise. A bit like error coins, they where genuine mistakes at the time and old slabs can never be repeated, even if they appear to be a bit naive in how they were trying to genuinely get a grip on all that new fangled crypto stuff back then, nearly a decade ago. I'm all for preserving the history if possible, rather than attempting to maybe maximising potential returns, the good karma of doing the right thing will more than make up for it all. |
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ie, this is five of six of them, where they did actually list addresses and post photos in their verification links: 4589722 2011 TOKEN 1 BITCOIN "CASACIUS" IN HOLOGRAM BRASS 19r1SK9y MS 67 4589723 2011 TOKEN 1 BITCOIN "CASACIUS" IN HOLOGRAM BRASS 19GYM8Xj MS 67 4589724 2013 TOKEN CASASCIUS 0.1 BITCOIN SILVER 1AgyC8At MS 67 4589725 2013 TOKEN CASASCIUS 0.1 BITCOIN SILVER 1AgyyPm3 MS 67 4589726 2013 TOKEN CASASCIUS 1 BITCOIN SILVER 1Agw6y5i MS 67 4589727 2012 TOKEN 5 BITCOINS "CASACIUS" IN HOLOGRAM BRASS 1BtwEsTB MS 66 but most are like the last one with no photos, therefor not even showing their addresses, the same as that one, so this needs dealing with before they're submitted to an auction |
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That's amazing! Congratulations Otoh, this sale was an absolute hit! This was a win win win for everyone involved. Didn't you say you meant to do another one with Heritage soon? Yes indeed, I am in talks with them now about that, if it goes ahead then there'll be much more variety and rares on offer this next time, I don't want to list more than the present physical crypto collectors market can comfortably absorb, but on the other hand I do want to make a bigger splash with an amazing catalogue, and maybe facilitate some whale/s to make a potential one off world class collection/s in an easy swoop if they liked, and to also allow others to pick up some of the rarer gems that are getting very hard to source nowadays, so I have inventoried for a Part 2 and am awaiting their feedback on that. A lot of the coins I had slabbed by ANACS between 2014 and 2016, most in early 2014, when they were the only game in town for that, so they have great provenance, kind of like the old green label slabs for regular coins from PCGS, and also it wouldn't have been cost effective for anyone to make forgeries back then so that helps, the only issue though is ANACS were very slack and didn't give many of the coin's addresses on their verification links page, or photos of them, they did offer to put this right afterwards but I didn't want to keep shipping them back and forth as they were rising in value a lot, so I'll need to decide if keeping the old slabs, asking Heritage to send photos to ANACS and the addresses for them to add, or to re-slab them with NGC in 'Otoh Collection' slabs instead, I did feel that ANACS graded them rather conservatively back then as well, so it could be that they'd do better now if resubmitted to NGC, but perhaps Heritage will think that maybe the market could prefer them in the old slabs, no idea or preference myself, and I will be guided by them on it all. |
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"Israel prepares to launch ground offensive on Gaza"
plus ça change
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Well, someone scooped them all up! I hope it was someone from this board, looks like 18 just sold!
Yep, that was me, the last 15 anyway, many thanks for the tip, not to redeem, but as cool keepsakes/gifts. |
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Otoh, Can you briefly describe the process and logistics of auctioning those 250 coins? I am mostly interested in knowing: - How were they transported to Heritage? What was the security like?
- Did you end up receiving more or less than the value of the BTC from the auction?
- Were there any costs to you?
I still have that bar and I don't feel comfortable holding such a valuable item, but I would hate to peel it. Perhaps I could auction it on Heritage. Sure, I took the coins out of my private bank's safe deposit box and met up with Heritage's London director, Sara, at the bank's secure meeting room, I'll PM you the exact place in case that was convenient for you to use as well, we chatted with Heritage head office in Dallas to sort out the fine details of the deal, though those also got tweaked a few times right up to the sale itself, she took delivery from me right there and gave me a receipt to itemise them and showing that they were now insured for their bitcoin spot price @ $30,000/BTC = $6M, she either took or had them shipped to Dallas at Heritage's expense and handled any and all paperwork involved in that, because I consigned them from my tax haven fiscal location there was no US, or other jurisdiction's, income or capital gains tax liability on the sale, even though the auction took place is the States. Because of the deal I made, which guaranteed me a minimum of the bitcoin spot price at the time of the sale, and then a later deal with guaranteed me a large lump sum to be paid to me in two weeks, plus for any unsold coins to be returned to me the whole working out of the accounts was rather convoluted and complicated, I also got 50% of the buyer's premium paid to me after 45 days, the bitcoin price was rising so fast and much that it all ended up very positive for both Heritage, myself and all of the buyers as well. I didn't pay any shipping or seller's premium, I was meant to be charged for the NGC slabbing, but haven't gone through the settlement accounts yet to see if I actually was and how much if so, I don't think that I paid anything towards to catalogues printing and photography, etc, but again would need to check that to be sure. Basically you'd need to negotiate your own deal with them, unless you did it through an agent who'd do that on your behalf. Hope that this helps, will PM some more details... |
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Just for the record, the price was about $52,000/BTC at the time of this auction.
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Yes, as rsincognito said Someone flipped one of my Otoh collection Casascius 'Leet' BTC today, it sold for $69,000 (including the buyer's premium) Heritage wouldn't have charged any seller's premium as it was re-offered through them The vendor bought it for $34,800 (incl. BP) about three months ago on 3rd Nov, so it made over 98% profit, nice timing! and the 0.5 BTCs seem to be even more desirable, as they flipped one of those for $36,000 (incl. BP) https://coins.ha.com/itm/cryptocurrency/cryptocurrency-casascius-brass-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-2013-ms66-ngc-/a/232407-63200.s?ic2https://coins.ha.com/itm/cryptocurrency/cryptocurrency-casascius-brass-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-2013-ms66-ngc-/a/3112-32142.s?ic16=ViewItem-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514Actually not quite +98% as they'd get the hammer price of $57,500 and then a share of the buyer's premium, probably 50% = $5,750 of it, but could be more if the negotiated well, anyway at least $63,250 in total I got 50% of the buyer's premium when I sold, on top of the hammer price, next time I'd try and strike an ever better deal, I was very impressed by Heritage's cataloguing, write up and marketing on my original sale, and I am super happy that all the buyers are well in profit so soon after the auction, as predicted, and that the secondary market at Heritage is proving to be both liquid and strong, it is very rare indeed to be able to re-offer auction buys in any fields so soon after winning them and not to then get a huge loss, let alone to be able to realise an almost 100% gain, all thanks to bitcoin in the main part, and we've only at the start of discovering what the ETF inflows will bring and how this wider interest in crypto will effect the physical collectables market. I doubt that any other item sold, of the millions of dollars worth of offerings at Heritage, in these last three months, has performed as well, or at any other auction house either for that matter, except for similar bitcoin and crypto offerings at places like Stacks Bower, this won't have escaped collector's attention I'm sure. |
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Where's Otoh?
lol, yep, got caught up in travelling, a friends private view and dinner afterwards, had to let them get away, sob  Congrats Nightowlace! |
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Lot 2 - 0.015 BTC
Lot 3 - 0.015 BTC
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Lot 2 - 0.006 BTC
Lot 3 - 0.004 BTC
Lot 4 - 0.006 BTC
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Did all the coins sell out?
Some were bought in and I've agreed to take most of those back from Heritage, plus a very large cash lump sum, rather than insist on the original guaranteed spot price for them all, not sure ATM quite how many as there may well be some after sales to add as well. |
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I'm waiting to hear from Heritage a few more details on the sale, they didn't charge me any seller's premium, or fees, at all BTW. The price when I consigned them on the 18th July 2023 was about $30,000/BTC, so it moved over 20% up from then. https://tinyurl.com/yn4nk92gThe five dominant forked coins (BCH, BSV, XEC, BTG & BCD) were at $336.86/BTC the day before the sale, so $67,372 in total for the 200 BTC. Yep, rsincognito, many thanks, these are the original online auctions where I bought some of these: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175969.0;allhttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175972.0;all2013 03 17 Purchased 3 rolls of 50 x 1 btc Casascius series 2, windowed = 150 x 1 BTC @ 1.0487 btc = $49.81 ($50.60 my cost each incl. p/p) <--- I kept all 3 rolls vacuum sealed together. These have now been NGC graded & auctioned with Heritage 2023 11 03, plus 2 rolls of 0.5 BTC, total 200 BTC. https://tinyurl.com/ym3f2bxc |
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