That's why they are so expensive and we should try to avoid them

@ghostshirt:
No, you can't just drop an existing bid of 300 @ 0.37 and change it to 200 @ 0.39. Isn't that obvious, since otherwise someone changing his mind would just update to higher bids with less shares until he reaches zero.

What you can do is: split your existing bid of 300 @ 0.37 into two blocks (200 + 100) and update 200 shares to 0.39, ending with 100 @ 37 + 200 @ 39.


Does the auction board really have no defined rules. If so, they are obviously overdue

Upon multiple requests from bidders, I want to clarify one burning question.

When and how is this going to end
The OP states
The second condition should be clear, since it is a defined event. To be more precise, it is the time when the dividend payments for the 5k shares propagate the network (received time). If this will be the ending event, I'll post the related transaction ID and invalidate all bids placed thereafter.

The first condition should be obvious for those who ever bid on ricardo. It requires that a) the given deadline passed and b) that during the previous 12h no counter-bids were placed. This is typically used to prevent bid snipers from getting the item at the deadline's very last second. In addition to that and in light of this being a global auction, I put it to be a 12h silent period to even out time-zone effects.

As one bidder pointed out, this opens the door for someone to prolong the auction to infinity. Well almost, since the second event (first divs payment) is an absolute deadline. Plus, since it is required to counter-bid (i.e. modifying the previous distribution, bidding below outbid is ignored) doing this costs the bidder something and he won't do it just for fun.


tl;dr: in worst case, you will receive your shares shortly after first ASICMINER dividend payments, in best case when the trading platform opens (which is only shortly before).

PM.6: update 100 @ 0.33 -> 100 @ 0.38

It already got outbid, but could you please specify what kind of update you meant:
1) update your existing 300 @ 0.33 to 100 @ 33 + 200 @ 36
2) add a new bid on top of your existing one

See how simple things get complicated



This also got outbid, but to make clear: prices are multiples of Bitcents, so that was an invalid bid and therefore not recorded.

Current bidding state (2012-02-15T20:30Z):

-- # -- -----Bidder----- --Amount-- --BTC/Share--
  93     wisard             300        0.40
  82     kjj                100        0.38
  84     LainZ (PM)         100        0.38
  93     wisard             200        0.38
  94     Vezunchik          200        0.38
  62     bitcad             100        0.37
  65     ghostshirt         300        0.37
  78     asnonmous         3700        0.37
-------------------- Outbid -------------------
  78     asnonmous         1300        0.37
  47     wisard             300        0.36
  61     mb300sd            500        0.36
  63     DiabloD3           200        0.36
  77     PM.3              4500        0.36
  44     PM.8              1400        0.35
  59     PM.7              5000        0.35
  47     wisard             300        0.34
  53     ahdinosaur         200        0.34
  44     PM.6               100        0.33
  44     PM.7              1000        0.33
  48     mb300sd            300        0.33
  50     DiabloD3           300        0.33
  59     PM.9               200        0.33
  30     superbit           100        0.32
  34     PM.4               200        0.32
  43     ThickAsThieves     300        0.32
  18     skibum (PM.1)      100        0.31
  31     Vezunchik          400        0.31
  32     TradeFortress      100        0.31
  34     PM.2               800        0.31
  37     mb300sd            300        0.31
   8     Vezunchik          300        0.30
   9     SaintFlow          100        0.30
  16     kjj                100        0.30
  21     Vezunchik          100        0.30
  22     PM.2               700        0.30
  23     wisard             200        0.30
  24     Blazr              100        0.30
  25     superbit           100        0.30
  26     PM.3              3300        0.30
  69     qukkM              200        0.30
------- ---------------- ---------- -----------

Yes it was a response to your previous question. If you ever participate in other auctions, you should know that you can't update bids to the wrong direction

But glad to hear you're now fine with the rule.


Cheers

Nah, please understand that this is not an automated auction system. I have a life and am not going to wait for any bid to update the table 24/7. I got a day job to handle, so that is just not doable.

I update the table twice a day and I am expecting anyone to be able to add the new bids since last status update for his decision. Otherwise, he would just wait for the next update.

I do not really see the problems addressed here being issues for the following reasons

• non disputable: every single event is logged in this thread, there is nothing to dispute; it is not really relevant to bother bid history now when those bids are going to fall over anyhow
• no urgency: since the auction ends only after 12h without counter-bids, there is no need to worry a sudden closure; if there are disputes about bid orders and such, we have enough time to resolve them; you won't run into a situation where you missed a bid or placed a wrong one caused by premature ending

So please let us be sane and make this an enjoyable experience for us all. I assure you there will be no reason for disputes.

No, it is not annoying, I appreciate all your input if it improves the processing in any way.

Openly speaking, I did not expect so many pitfalls and sources for misunderstanding when I started this auction. Reading other threads seemed that it is an easy process - which in fact is if you are bidding for one item. I am trying to adapt what I know from commercial bidding platforms and use common sense, so I'm sorry it still bears so much confusion.

As for the bid updates:
The problem you were describing does actually not exist: updating a bid goes only one direction, i.e. you con only update an existing bid for the same amount of shares by increasing the price. Everything else is not an update but a new bid. So posting 5000@0.8 first and 1@0.4 after will result in two active bids, otherwise the whole bidding process won't work.


I added the post numbers to the bid status table and think it is quite clear. I'd refrain from adding more data to it and make it less readable, since I think it serves its purpose and we have the complete bid log in case of disputes available anyhow.

What do you think?

LainZ: update to 100 @ .38

Thanks for bidding in public and distorting some of the paranoia here.

For the records: so far, this was bidder PM.7

PM.3: update to 4500 @ 0.36BTC

I fail to understand how this can be perceived as a change of auction terms. I should have better posted the offer in a separate thread or just PMd the related bidder, but instead decided to remain fully transparent - lesson learned .

Not going to argue further. Whoever feels the option I am offering to reach board member status is an unacceptable change of terms, please feel free to remove your pending bids. This grant is valid for all bids posted above this post.


Sorry for confusion, next time I'm going to use a bidding platform, promised.

Hey SAC,

dude, slow down and relax. Why don't you politely bring up your concern and point me to where I am wrong to fix it instead of calling the police right away? Shoot first ask later, no?

Actually, If your report helps to clarify whether anonymous bidding is allowed or not, I frankly would be very thankful. I looked through the forum to find some terms and rules for auctions, but since there are none I used common sense to accept PMd bids.

Fact is, there are some bidders that do not want to expose their identity or nick to the public. From what I see they are either
1) senior members that prefer to not reveal
2) newbies that just entered the Bitcoin world and can't post outside the newbies thread

Now, what is your concern with those folks using me (or whoever they want) as middleman to place anonymous bids? If there is someone that needs to be worried, isn't that me? I might end up loosing enforcement mechanisms to finalize trades (i.e. bidder changed his mind after auction ends and gives a damn about getting his new account tagged as scammer), but why do you think there is something to worry on the buyer/bidder side?


Maybe I just don't see the obvious, but if you have valid arguments I am fine with asking the anonymous bidders to reveal their nick (like two already did, if you followed).


Thanks,
zefir

Hey, it is not mine either - that's why my post was misleading. Please allow me to clarify:

Addendum
If at the end of the auction a bidder bought X shares in total with X>=3'500, he is granted the option to buy (5'000 - X) additional shares for his highest bid price to reach board member status.

Clarification

• The shares granted by the given option are additional ones, i.e. I reserve another max. of 1'500 shares from my holdings.
• In no way the current auction shall be affected by this goodwill offer, the 5'000 shares will remain on offer in full and the auction will be finalized as planned.

I understand the confusion comes from an assumption that I am dumping all my ASICMINER shares with this auction. That's not the case and I hope you understand this is an offer I added to increase fairness, not to decrease it.

Please let me know if this clarifies it for you.



Thanks,
zefir

PMd updates:

LainZ: update to 100 @ 0.37
PM.9: update to 200 @ 0.36

PM.7: 5000 @ 0.35
PM.9:  200 @ 0.33

Sorry wachtwoord && Vezunchik, INAU took the job for free before we even started negotiating

---

---

Bug-Report
From the PM communication with private bidders I realize I made a stupid mistake: some of them are interested only in getting the board seat, i.e. buy all the 5k shares or none. With the current offer this seems impossible, since given a state like
he would have to raise to 5000 @ 0.46 to secure the seat and continue to do so whenever someone increases the top bid. This makes it effectively fairly impossible to get all the 5k shares.


It was not my intention to push the price for a future board member that way, but I simply overlooked that scenario. Since at the same time it is too late to change the rules now, I thought about some potential fix that I want to announce publicly as follows:

Addendum
If at the end of the auction a bidder bought X shares in total with X>=3'500, he is granted the option to buy (5'000 - X) additional shares for his highest bid price to reach board member status.


Hope that solves it somehow.

Did, please check.

Current bidding state (2013-02-14T22:00Z):

-- # -- -----Bidder----- --Amount-- --BTC/Share--
  44     PM.8              1400        0.35
  38     ghostshirt         300        0.33
  39     ahdinosaur         100        0.33
  44     PM.6               100        0.33
  44     PM.7              1000        0.33
  30     superbit           100        0.32
  34     PM.4               200        0.32
  43     ThickAsThieves     300        0.32
  18     skibum (PM.1)      100        0.31
  29     wisard             200        0.31
  31     Vezunchik          400        0.31
  32     TradeFortress      100        0.31
  33     DiabloD3           300        0.31
  34     PM.2               400        0.31
-------------------- Outbid -------------------
  34     PM.2               400        0.31
  37     mb300sd            300        0.31
  44     LainZ (PM)         100        0.31
   8     Vezunchik          300        0.30
   9     SaintFlow          100        0.30
  16     kjj                100        0.30
  21     Vezunchik          100        0.30
  22     PM.2               700        0.30
  23     wisard             200        0.30
  24     Blazr              100        0.30
  25     superbit           100        0.30
  26     PM.3              3300        0.30
------- ---------------- ---------- -----------



I realize, I'm getting too old for this kind of smart sh*t

Vezunchik, how about you handling this auction for me? Let's say max{3BTC;100$} for you to update the bid list twice a day until auction is over? I'd post those bids I receive PMd and you take care of correct accounting and terminating the auction. Deal?

Yes, bids are heating up, so I'll go for two updates a day (can't do more, have to work and sleep, sadly )

As for the additional info you proposed: linking to the post-numbers is a good idea. The proposed table with shares left and bought does not provide more information than the current format with the outbid line does, so I'll keep it as is. Thanks for the input.


Sorry, I'm not too experienced with auctions. I saw some posters explicitly stating to replace their existing bids, that's why I assumed placing a new bid does not automatically invalidate previous ones. I'd appreciate if future bids would explicitly state that information (unless it is some unwritten rule).

I assure you that ASICMINER shares won't go for 0.30 from now on for a long time, nevertheless I'll remove your 300@0.3 bid from the list.


Thanks,
zefir

Current bidding state (2013-02-13T21:30Z):

-----Bidder----- --Amount-- --BTC/Share--
superbit            100        0.32
PM.4                200        0.32
skibum              100        0.31
wisard              200        0.31
Vezunchik           400        0.31
TradeFortress       100        0.31
DiabloD3            300        0.31
PM.2                800        0.31
DiabloD3            300        0.30
SaintFlow           100        0.30
Vezunchik           300        0.30
ThickAsThieves      200        0.30
kjj                 100        0.30
PM.2                700        0.30
Vezunchik           100        0.30
wisard              200        0.30
PM.3                800        0.30
--------------- Outbid ----------------
PM.3               2500        0.30
Blazr               100        0.30
superbit            100        0.30
---------------- ---------- -----------