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Yes, Investors play an important role in making the market up and down but there are many factors which no one can tell like covid came in 2020 and after that the price of bitcoin rise up and then went down then this Who's doing it all? Can anyone tell? I want to know
You want to know "who controls" the course of history.. A very philosophical question. Did Napoleon "control" the outcome of the Napoleonic wars? He surely tried.. but failed. Also in the Bitcoin Market.. Humans try to control everything.. but fail miserably.. most of the time.. Some manage to control niches.. then they become "Bill Gates".. Until he cheated on Melinda and got caught. Puns aside.. no-one controls anything in the BTC Market.. It is a free market, albeit an illiquid one which reflects the fair price between demand and supply for a scarce item like BITCOIN. |
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Bitcoin is decentralized which means no one person or company can control it.Yes, bitcoin can be manipulated by directly or indirectly for example positive or negative news can trigger panic sell or pump, whales also affect bitcoins price like any other investment options.Every investment options can be manipulated. Bitcoin is just too volatile to predict where prices would go.
Bro, I really feel I have been controlling the market recently. Every time I buy the price goes down and every time I sell it goes really high. It's not China apparently. LOL I have been buying DAO Maker recently because they release a news that they're more open now, which means everyone can join their token sales with or without staking their token. But then the price continuously goes down, but wth, we'll hodl and never sell I don't think it's because of China by any mean. Besides the China ban the use of bitcoin, we saw how many other powerful institutions, governments and big companies adopt the use of bitcoin including India who announced recently the legalization of bitcoin in addition to Chile and El Salvador. I can understand how people ask about how this market can be controlled, but i know that bitcoin is like to other products can be influenced by the global world economy . India has recently legalized crypto.. that means you do not go to jail holding some anymore… Chile.. I dont know.. El Salvador.. the experiment is an utter failure, I mean the country is a failure and has not managed to even provide a legal tender to its citizen and my guess is that they will soon undo this move.. they created a “special” btc which is not fungible to normal btc or USD.. so.. it is really not BTC. I do not feel that BTC is a success story but rather mean it will drift off into a forgotten backwater. |
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Ontem terminei a historia, até 31 de Janeiro tinha que pagar Imposto ganho capital sobre os 14 BTC.
paguei 270 mil R$ de IRPF
Tinha que preencher um “demonstrativo sobre Ganhos de Capitais” que gerou o valor e em paralelo um “Relatório de venda de criptomoeda” que você accessa em sua receita federal.. com seu certificado digital.
Bom.. agora sou mais transparente que vidro para o fisco.. meu plano de “ter” BTC totalmente fora do systema.. como último recurso.. se foi.. Se discutem no parlamento um imposto de herança de 30%.. este dinheiro vai entrar..
enfim..
Acho que fiz tudo +- certo..
FUck the system.. problem is.. it fucks ou first.. haha
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In your analogy, it boils down to the point weather you see the legacy finance system on fire and BTC as the saviour. then BTC mininig and Blockchain hashing can very well use and transform into useless heat the TWh of a mid size country.. because it is worth it.. like the water for the firemen.
If however, you see BTC as a ridiculous playground for tax evaders and other illicit activity, a threat to the prevalence of the USD for intl. payments, a threat to law and order, a geeky speculative b.. then.. every drop of water is seen as waste.
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Bitcoin is controlled by people like you and me who believe in Bitcoin and want to collect Bitcoin. If we all start selling Bitcoin then it will definitely go down in price. And if we continue to buy Bitcoin without selling it, its price will definitely go up. And it always happens that everything depends on people like us.There is no miracle behind it he he
I completely agree with your tautologies hehe.. What you say is a like saying: "to become rich, always sell high and buy low"!.. That is also incredibly intelligent.. but totally useless. What I say is, that, in my opinion.. fewer people will hold, buy, get into BTC.. because of these 4 negative points. |
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So.. these 3 points: Energy, doubtful markets, legacy Banking system and Governments putting up hindrances, not user-friendly .. Actually 4 points..I think.. will reduce the usefulness and success of crypto in the future.
And.. markets that are not really liquid and understood and even less regulated.. 5 points.
listing your points better as you said more in the description of your experiences 1. you said you thought bitcoins "intrinsic value" was based on hoarding.. um no. golds intrinsic value is not on hoarding for speculated price. bitcoins price/value is not set by markets evaluating users that have no market deposits. the market price is set by those wanting to sell. Humm?? I never even used these words. I can live with the fact that BTCUSD conversion price is just that. a price.. Based on hoarding? what does that even mean? Intrinsic or speculative.. I do not care. I was a firm believer in BTC.. but.. as I said.. If it becomes a part of your Wealth.. The IRS will have to know, will know, it will have the same restrictions and all. It's utility is seriously hampered being not at all user friendly, tons of people loosing their private keys all the time. The energy problem becoming more a hindrance. So.. I mean.. you Americans cannot hold Gold either.. because your government prohibits it because in Bretton woods it was declare the anchor for FIAT. Lots of people that write here have a little holding on some site.. I am sure, few people have control over their Private Keys, as I do with my ledger.. But hey.. to maintain this.. It is difficult.. The Mnemonic phrase.. hardware failures.. somebody breaking into my house and finding the 24 words (yes.. they are on a piece of paper).. Well.. I just do not think it will be the freeing, Libertine brave new world... that I thought it would be.. when I invested in 2014. 2. government hindrances yes the conversion to fiat is a pain. because fiat banks have rules and limits. but you are not forced to convert it to fiat just to hand it down to your kids. yes some governments have advised banks to be extra cautious with large funds coming from known bitcoin exchanges. but the sentiment of 'evil' was strong in 2014 and has actually started to relax in 2022 the UK for instance closed peoples bank accounts in 2014 but now they just treat it as a normal money transfer where they only question the amount. and not auto-evil a transaction due to its known bitcoin source. i think some of the banking problems you experienced were not bitcoin direct linked. but more so large amount and also from a chillian bank to a brazilian bank causing some flags/questions. you might have had a better experience using a brazilian based exchange that pays out in brazilian real I used BINANCE too.. as a test.. transferred 1 BTC.. They had me make a KYC like a normal Bank.. and that is what they are. I am sure, that end of year they WILL transfer all info, with my Brazilian Tax Number to the Brazilian Receita Federal.. which is OK now.. because.. to liquidate my holdings.. I actually had to put all my Crypto Holdings on my IRPF.. my Brazilian tax declaration. Now.. since 2021.. here in Brazil.. If I buy or sell Btc I have to inform it same day on the site of Receita Federal.. and pay Capitals Gains tax.. as with any other asset. 3. bitcoin utility(you might confuse with intrinsic value) bitcoins utility value is to make transactions that dont need banks. so if you have 14btc. and you want to hand it to your kids. you can do so in the privacy of your home without reporting to a bank why you are shifting $490k of value. your kids can hoard it without being penalised by inheritance tax the moment they get a confirm. they can take it to another country and buy a house on some exotic island without your native bank/ tax office monitoring $ movements Well.. as my experience tells me.. NO.. you cannot pass your bitcoins without the IRS seeing them.. well. you can.. but then.. when you want to use it.. it just becomes normal money.. which you have to declare.. or jump through loops and holes to funnel the worth into real FIAT money. I am sure. If I go with lots of BTC to the Bahamas.. and try to buy an Island.. they want to see all the normal paperwork.. As with any other currency.. This together with the hassle, risk, dangers of "being your own bank".. I do not see it anymore.. That does by no end mean to sell all your BTC.. I am still positive that it will hit 100.000 USD/btc.. someday.. just because of its scarcity.. But.. hmm.. I could also imagine it just slipping off into oblivion.. slowly bleeding out its value. And this argument that mining costs 30k USD/BTC.. If the price falls below that.. some miners will go bust and only the ones with the lowest Mining cost will survive, and a new hash rate will establish.. where it is worth to mine BTC at 500USD/BTC.. also ok.. 4.market liquidity. yes its clear markets do things like 'ghost orders' where they fill the market order books with lots of orders and just cancel them before the order is hit if they dont want the price to go in that direction. yes exchange owners also arbitrage using stable coins from one exchange to another to take the advantage of different market prices which then brings both exchanges into balance with each other(before letting the customers take the advantage) and yes although you see lots of pending orders and lots of filled orders. some.. not all but some are done without having their account balance backed by deposits. which is illegal. and that needs to be regulated for consumer protection (avoid another 'gox') Read the article that I posted.. 95% of volume is fake.. Which is also OK.. still lots of volume..Just not compared to the volume of other currencies.. 5. mining 'climate' 'wastage' if everyone was GPU mining. the electric usage per reward would be massively higher. asics have made mining more energy efficient. as have using pools. and asic farms located in renewable energy regions. when you read propaganda media saying chinese mining is only 15% clean. thats not based on any analysis of visiting an asic farm and sourcing which power plant its attached to. instead its just generalising china's national renewable number and saying that asic farms must be mixed with all type. its very lazy reporting. lets take america. its mining is only about 14twh a year. and yet within the decade america wants to be majority Electric car transport system. but that requires 1050twh a year to have all us cars electric. yep cars use 75x more energy then Us bitcoin . and right now 98% of all cars are fossil fuelled. where as bitcoin mining is only 15% fossil fuelled. so if you want to pick a climate debate. look at the car industry Yeah.. No arguments here.. Just.. for such a gimmicky item as BTC spending 14tWH seems preposterous. And will be conceived as preposterous.. and this IS a problem.. for BTC and its acceptance. bitcoins hashrate has been lingering around an average 150ex for years. +/- 0.3x . yet the car industry needs to grow by 50-75x in under 10 years. wrote my answer into your quote.. did not know better.. Look guys.. I just wanted to give another opinion to this HODL is everything.. It will go up..I will get rich.. BTC is the answer, talk.. that is written here..Although the tread is "who controls the market" is probably not the best place.. I decided to give my opinion here.. Because one of the critiques I have, is that the market really is NOT as shiny as BinanceCoinbaseKraken and the other 10 players like you to think. It is a fickle backwater. . and.. as I told you guys.. I walk the talk.. I decided to cash in on my holdings.. because.. well.. that is all written already.. But to sum it up again: BTC was a great Investment. I got in at 500USD, already everybody said.. this is crazy for a crypto currency to be valued so high.. Rode it up to 51.000 and got out...not at 68.. but very well.. For the future.. I think 1. Energy use and its negative Image effect 2. Legacy Banking sector really not liking the thing and politically being better connected WILL hamper its usefulness 3. Total lack of user-friendliness. Be your own bank.. try it.. own your keys.. have them save, so that when your house burns down you still have a backup etc.etc.. only for very few.. Well.. that's it.. That will make it an edge case investment and will impede, that huge number of people own, trade and depend with their savings on BTC. Tell me what you think.. It is only an opinion.. |
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Apart from all said: I think, and I have some clues, that the volumes of all sites that trade BTC is heavily overstated. https://medium.com/dirt-protocol/how-much-are-cryptocurrency-volumes-overstated-7a80873ffe69by as much as 95%. So only 5% is real volume.. the rest is fake, the sites trading inside themselves to get higher ratings. This gives a reply to the people asking.. who is controlling this market.. It is much easier to influence a market with low liquidity... Which I think is the case with Crypto. .... this is not surprising.. it is also true with lots of other markets.. where the players all try to have an advantage. I recently (on 3 of Dezember) sold 13 BTC on Kraken at 51.000 to the CHF, which is around 54.000 USD. I sold it OTC on WhatsApp.. not wanting to put this sum up fearing a meltdown. In the next three hours the price dropped some 5%.. in my opinion.. because Kraken tried to sell these.. They say my sell had nothing to do with it.. but.. hmm. Then.. they took 4 days to credit me with the money.. saying the CHF is to illiquid to have it at hand.. but hey.. If they really had this daily volume... they should have been able to liquidate my trade within hours. But these are mere speculations. I sold my BTC, I am a HODL since 2014, because I think that there are risks involved in the HODL arguments, that BTC (and other crypto) has such an intrinsic value, because its quantity is restricted etc. I think that the legacy banking sector is forming against Crypto... I tried with my Brazilian Bank to bring the USD 800.000 to Brazil and got told (by ITAU).. legal, not legal.. on your Tax report, not on your tax report.. we do not take the money.. you CANNOT get this money into your account.. therefore seriously hampering the USE of BTC. I used the proceeds to buy a house. I managed to find another Brazilian Bank, which would take the proceeds, that came from KRAKEN.. after a while.. but it took me in all two weeks of work and lots of grey hair. It is only an example of how the legacy banking sector is succeeding in hampering the usefulness of crypto.. after all.. in the end you want to exchange it for something real.. a house, a car, food, expenses... whatever.. Then there is this environmental problem with the Hashrate being so energy expensive.. I know.. that people argue that it all is from green, superfluous energy bla bla.. but. hey.. In the end..I think.. unless we make sure that all mining is with Geodesic or Cold fusion :-) .. probably it is made in some country with Coal.. So.. I at least have considerably lowered my BTC Holding.. fortunately 1 hour before one of the biggest price corrections (3 December to today 51.000 to 30.000 USD price correction). Then there is all theses post with Chart Analysis, which has proven inefficient over and over and over again in stock trading.. Do not get me started on the usefulness of this.. but hey..I you think 30.000 is a CLEAR threshold.. just because you manage to draw a blue line in a nice slope.. you probably also believe that the position of Venus and Mars explains you last job application in any way... I am still holding half of my BTC..because hey.. I bought it TOTALLY speculative and horsed around with it, never even considering it real money but only plastic chips in a casino. I invested in Bankrolls.. gained lots (tripled the amount) during 2016-2017, then invested in some black sheep.. ( lost 75% because the stole the bankroll).. did lots of other bullshit.. gave away whole BTC to nephews just to get them interested.. But now.. that is has become a big part of my savings.. .. My third point.. Being your own bank.. Really difficult.. I am a very savvy person, when it comes to computers, IT, etc.. But whenever I plug in my Ledger.. it asks me to upgrade the firmware. The other day I found out how to test my Mnemonic Phrase.. and.. I had one error in it.. Whenever I try to make a transfer.. it asks me. "do you want to upgrade your BTC to SEGWIT or SEGWIT2.. or whatever".. If you send to the wrong address you loose everything.. Anyway.. Only 1% of world population have the guts to listen to hours and hours of Youtube Talks explaining of how to maintain your wallet.. have secure computers.. have a scheme in place if they die, so their heirs have knowledge to get to the BTC. Not at all consumer friendly.. only for geeks.. So.. these 3 points: Energy, doubtful markets, legacy Banking system and Governments putting up hindrances, not user-friendly .. Actually 4 points..I think.. will reduce the usefulness and success of crypto in the future. And.. markets that are not really liquid and understood and even less regulated.. 5 points. Do not understand me wrong.. I still have half of my BTC, ETH, XPR holdings.. but I am sitting in my new House on the beach and happy I bought something.. even if I die.. that my kids can enjoy.. exchange for money/food/stocks.. or crypto again.. hehe. |
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E agora. 5 meses depois.. como olhamos isso.. in hindsight.. ?
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ok, mas, acho improvável ter esse problema se for verdase que eles negociaram 830.000.000 usd em 24 h e depois não tem 800.000, um milesimo liquid….. mesmo tenho q dizer que eu tinha vendido btc vs CHF… nao USD. mas.. ok.. https://coinmarketcap.com/pt-br/exchanges/kraken/ |
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Ok.. Assim eu fiz.
Foi um estresse enorme.
Decidi fazer com a KRAKEN, por que conheço, e sou cliente desde 2014 com eles. Fiz meu KYC para ser PRO ( o que permite 10 mi USD/dia..hehe).
Ai..Liguei no meu ITAU Personallité.. e perguntei se tudo bem receber este valor (5mi R$) e falaram sim.. por que tenho isso no meu imposto de renda (tenho duas contas na Suíça, tudo declarado, BTC tb declarado).
Ai fiquei muito nervoso.. lutei com meu LEDGER nano.. por que ele não conectou mais.. (percebi que o dongle USB estava defeituoso.. mas dá um frio na barriga se sua poupança de repente não liga) enviei 16 BTC para KRAKEN. Vendi o primeiro, para fazer teste e transferi direto para meu ITAU IBAN BR numero.. Chegou no próximo dia. Meu gerente liga e fala tudo bem.. mas melhor trocar amanha quando vem o resto.. faço o resto.. uma tacada só..
Ai minha sorte terminou..
Proximo dia.. após ter transferido 700k CHF (aproa 4,5mio R$) para ITAU direto.. o KRAKEN me manda uma mensagem.. sua remessa (essa de 700k CHF) está bloqueada.. por que o banco correspondência (através KRAKEN envia CHF, Banco FRICK) quer agora saber mais sobre minha pessoa.. Fiquei super nervoso.. mandei meu IRPF. Passa o dia sem resposta.
Ai.. ITAU meu gerente me liga.. " ... falei com compliance e no canal Personallite não aceita se dinheiro oriundo cripto"..
O meu erro era, que deveria ter enviado Kraken->Suíça->ITAU.. e não KRAKEN->ITAU.. por que na remessa não tem meu nome.. ai.. fiquei muito nervoso... vendo que não vou ter como cumprir meus compromissos aqui e de repente ficar com 770k CHF preso no limbo entre Itau de birra e Kraken e Banco Frick.. e eu tenho que pagar algo semana que vem..
Pedi para KRAKEN helpdesk de CANCELAR/parar a remessa dos 700k CHF.
Liguei para Amigos aqui e abri uma conta no BANCO GENIAL,
Ai.. minha sorte voltou..
O dinheiro estava no próximo dia de volta an KRAKEN (0s 700k).. enviei para BANCO GENIAL..e com gerente na linha troquei o dinheiro com um spread de 0,05% (não 2-3% como na ITAU) (alias FUCK ITAU.. fiquei tão puto com eles que juro que nunca vou fazer NADA com este banco)
Os 70 Mil CHF voltaram 3 dias depois para KRAKEN.. e o BTC estava em 48.000 e comprei 1.6BTC com este dinheiro..
Detalhe.. Vendi meus 15 BTC 3 PM, 3 de Dezembro.. OTC.. quer dizer eu falei direto com Deal deles no WhatsApp.. Fechei 51.400CHF.. aproa 54.000USD/bTC.. uma hora depois o bitcoin tinha caído para 49 mil USD.. coincidência? Acho que sim.. ou tb não.. acho que este volume das bolsas é uma grande mentira..
Outra coisa. quando vendi 15 btc contra 700k CHF.. a KRAKEN NAO TINHA O CASH.. levaram dois Business days para pagar.. Isso um site que diz trocar centenas mi USD/dia.. muito estranho.
Aprendizado.. ITAU não gosta de CRIPTO.. Se você recebe na conta deles.. mesmo declarado, legal etc. eles não vão receber.
No panico abri um plano B. Já tinha feito uma inscrição na BINANCE.. como vocês tinham indicados.. Tinha feito meu KYC para PRO, tendo o direito de retirar 1 mi R$/dia.. o que seria o suficiente para honrar meu compromisso que tenho na semana que vem..
Transferi 1 BTC.. vendi, e enviei para ITAU direto em R$.. chegou direitinho.. Pode ser BINANCE seja mesmo uma boa opção para repatriar grandes volumes de BTC into R$.
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El Salvador é um caso muito específico.
O primeiro ponto é que El Salvador não possui moeda própria, não possui Banco Central. Se possuísse, certamente não adotaria o Bitcoin como moeda de curso legal. O fez pois são totalmente dependentes do dólar. Segundo ponto: o presidente de El Salvador é um populista, persegue os opositores, utiliza as forças armadas do país para pressionar o Congresso, além de possuir estreitas relações com as gangues do país. Chega a ser inocência idolatrá-lo só porque ele adotou, à força, o Bitcoin no país. Certamente, possui interesses nisso, escusos, por sinal.
..
concordo com esta visão plenamente. Infelizmente o caso El Salvador vai servir para denigrir o BTC ainda mais. Parece que o governo fez uma carteira que não transmite BTC para o Blockchain.. portanto não é um BTC.. meramente um crytpo moeda.. com backing do Presidente, populista servindo os interesses escusos de uma clientela dele. Acho.. um pais sem moeda. não é um pais.. Como ... um pais sem exercito.. não existe.. ou tem o próprio... ou tem um de outro pais.. haha. |
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Baixíssima liquidez, quase nula. https://nova.bitcambio.com.br/pt/trade/pro/BTC/BRLR$ 265k é o preço de quem está querendo comprar. Para quem quer vender, só tem R$ 46 por 297k e só começa a aparecer um valor mixuruca (R$ 1k) por R$ 320k, ou seja, mais caro do que a Binance. Basicamente: Spread altíssimo e você perde de ambos os lados. Woow.. You're really competent. Eu levei semanas até entender isso.. |
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Alguém explica como bitcambio.com.br pode durante semanas cotar o BTC 20% abaixa do mercado?
Tipo na BINANCE é 320k R$/BTC eles cotam 280k R$/BTC?
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Bitmover e Tryninja..
que respostas competentes. Muito obrigado.
Eu estou vendo exatamente este procedimento.
Tenho inscrição na bitcambio.com.br mas parece que eles mesmo sendo PRO.. somente liberam 50 mil R$/mês para retirada.
Então.. vou fazer meu KYC na binance então..
Eu tenho KRAKEN ainda.. estou vendo fazer lá e enviar os USD para cá... (o que deve ser possível por que tenho SIM tudo declarado na Receita).
Tenho LYKKE também (outro site de Crypto que permit comprar/vender para FIAT).. ai troco lá na Suíça em CHF e mando os CHF para ca.. meio deselegante..
Afinal.. parece que não é fácil.. desinvestir BTC e entrar no mundo real, de R$... para valores altas..
m
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Olá,
qual é o melhor site para trazer BTC para o Brasil depositar em R$ na conta.
m
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Conforme lí no Estadão.. não é um IPO, mas uma oferta de títulos, sob regras da CVM, mas não listados na bolsa. Portanto 5 mi R$ é possível. Não sei se eu ia investir nisso.. Mas.. olhando o caso da COINBASE que levantou 150 bi de USD, quinze 15!!! mil vezes mais.. é uma migalha. Agora.. O mundo é louco.. investir 150 bi USD em um exchange de bitcoin.. olhando este site https://nomics.com/exchanges/gdax-coinbase-proo volume de BTC no coinbase ontem foi 6 bi USD.. Enquanto no Mercado Bitcoin foi 50 BTC ou 3 mi USD.. portanto coerente. Mas isso pode crescer.. |
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Olá.
em thread eu perguntei “qual é o melhor site de cambio” no Brasil. Eu mesmo uso Bitcambio e me serviu bem, somente fiz pequenas transações.
Agora vem um novo player Mercado Bitcoin que vai levantar dinheiro na bolsa. Com isso com certeza vai ter uma certa “governance” assim oferecendo segurança e transparencia para os usuarios.
O que acham deste IPO? Vão investir?
A Coinbase levantou muito dinheiro nos EUA.. Acho interessante que estes sites de cambio, de pequenos emprendimentos de repente viram empresas públicas com milhões de Dollares investidos.
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Agora com o IPO do MercadoBitcoin pode ser que ele vai ser “the winner takes it all”
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acabei de ter uma experiência muito ruim com bitcambio.
Coloquei 0.1 BTC lá.. mas quando quis retirar na minha conta ITAU ví que mesmo sendo KYC Intermediate ainda tenho um limite de R$2mi.
Ai fiz tudo para KYC PRO.. de novo.. foto com textinho, o que você faz.. sua imposto de renda.. de onde vem o dinheiro... para onde vai o dinheiro.. E agora vem.. “Em até 7 dias alguem entra em contato”..
Agora.. só quis retirar meus bitcoins.. quando depositei não recalamaram..
Quais são os limites do BINANCE? São tão baixos também?
Hoje, segunda feira fui liberado e consegui retirar meu 0.1 BTC em 5 minutos. Uffa. Portanto bitcambio funcionou bem.. |
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acabei de ter uma experiência muito ruim com bitcambio.
Coloquei 0.1 BTC lá.. mas quando quis retirar na minha conta ITAU ví que mesmo sendo KYC Intermediate ainda tenho um limite de R$2mi.
Ai fiz tudo para KYC PRO.. de novo.. foto com textinho, o que você faz.. sua imposto de renda.. de onde vem o dinheiro... para onde vai o dinheiro.. E agora vem.. “Em até 7 dias alguem entra em contato”..
Agora.. só quis retirar meus bitcoins.. quando depositei não recalamaram..
Quais são os limites do BINANCE? São tão baixos também?
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