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341  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why There Should Be A Bitcoin Central Bank on: August 26, 2014, 04:16:27 PM
Bitcoin requires a hell of a lot more trust than you think.

Really, how so? (please stick to bitcoin protocol)

Organizations and agencies aren't evil, the people controlling them are evil.

Fail: Organizations and agencies ARE the people controlling them.

There are quite a few evil people in Bitcoinland too.

Evil? well that's a word I would reserve for moral crimes. I wouldn't call Pirate evil, a scoundrel, a scammer, yes.

But yes of course there are many people playing strategically in all areas one might care to investigate.

Your ideas aren't exactly new and have had limited success.

Of course, I never proclaimed my ideas were new.

Success? I am just discussing central authority and how it relates to bitcoin.

I wish you a good journey.
342  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: My bank doesn't know what a bitcoin is.... HELP on: August 26, 2014, 04:00:33 PM
They don't need to know what BTC is, they just need to be assured that your sister really does want to transfer those £600 to someone else.
Precisely! It is her money after all.

This is precisely my point. Don't even bother explaining bitcoin to banks. They will ask more questions and waste more of your time. I would say money is for something else. Have you considered writing a cheque or cash deposit into the seller's account?

Well, they already know it is for bitcoin so my sister/I can't go and tell them something else.

Actually you can and they will have to record it as such.

Just go in and say your sister has just been looking at a second hand moped and now wants to buy that with the money, she's in love with it. The original bitcoin idea was a way that she was trying to make more money in order to afford another moped, but now she's in love with that moped and it's a good deal that will probably be snatched up quick, she can't wait to get in the saddle!

Of course some time after leaving the bank she will have a change of mind (as women do) and now want bitcoin.
343  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why There Should Be A Bitcoin Central Bank on: August 26, 2014, 03:48:29 PM
The whole concept of "lending is good for economy" is a scam, it is an excuse for banks to rob people with interests and doing fractional reserve practice to collect more interest...

Exactly!
344  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why There Should Be A Bitcoin Central Bank on: August 26, 2014, 03:30:43 PM
Sometimes watching this forum is like watching kids grow up. That's not a negative thing. In fact, it's kind of cool to watch especially with someone that has taken a hard line view for a long time. Then some major event happens like Pirates Ponzi and they come to the realization that things work the way they do for a reason. You can almost see them saying in their heads, "now I know why fraud controls exist, now I know why the Fed is there, now I understand the reason for banks and lending, now I understand international trade controls, now I know the reason for legislating financial controls, now I know why the barter system was replaced, now I know why you don't trust strangers.........

In my opinion the FED IS a Ponzi! And financial controls are primarily put in place to benefit a few.

The federal reserve bank is not "federal" it is a private organisation operated by strangers to you and me, when the shit hits the fan they will not come good, to expect otherwise is naive.

Anthropologists speculate that a widely implemented barter system never existed, the majority of debt records were carried in memory, people trusting one another, in effect it was a distributed P2P trust system, self regulating with no central authority. Then the smaller grain structure of society coalesced into larger groups and centralisation of control began, after that the controllers were always fat and well rested.

And here we are today, bitcoin giving us the chance to go full circle and have another true P2P system, only one that does not require trust, after all the central controllers have long since burnt any trust out of us, they like to keep us seperate lest we make plans to overthrow them. A strategically wise and inevitable move on their part, any central controllers that do not adopt such a position quickly get relegated to the history books, and so a process of natural selection is breeding central control systems that oppress more and more as time goes on.
345  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: August 26, 2014, 02:58:09 PM
There simply can't exist a proof that god exists! It just doesn't work that way. God can only exist for people who believe he/she/it does. All those 'scientific' proofs are bogus, if you ask me!

Stop right now, and look at the wall. No, seriously, stop what you are doing and look at the wall. I don't know if your wall is papered with wallpaper, or if you have paneling, or if it is simply painted. But whatever it is, how do you know that there is anything behind/beyond the surface of the wall?

You might have seen the wall built. You might have only tapped the wall with your knuckles, and it felt solid. You might have even put your fist through that wall at one time or another. But how do you know for a fact that there is anything behind/beyond the surface of that wall right now? For all we know, observing the substance behind the surface of the wall is the thing that brings that substance into existence, and that it really wasn't there before we brought it into existence through some form of observation.

The point is, how much evidence do you have to see in nature before you can postulate within yourself that God must indeed exist? EVERYTHING in life exists partially by faith. Nature seems to show that God exists. The surface of the wall seems to indicate that there is some kind of solidity behind the surface. But until you stand face to face with whatever, you have to live, at least a little, in faith.

ALL people live in faith many different ways throughout their whole lives. Meeting God in person is the only pure proof for His existence. But the evidence that He exists is great, far greater than the constant babbling of the scientists that evolution exists. In their babbling they live in faith just like everyone else.

Smiley

With a wall we could all carry out the same experiment:

Take a drill, a Black and Decker is fine, and drill a hole to determine with certainty what is behind the surface layer, have witnesses to observe the experiment if you wish.

The same cannot be done with your hypothetical "god".

I agree that observing something may bring it into existence (and no experiment could prove otherwise), but that argument also stands for your "god" and so you cannot use it without pulling the rug out from under your very own position. In fact thinking such thoughts would make the logical reality most likely that we are running in a simulation that only renders what is being observed.

The fact of the matter is that what is known as "science" only considers things tangible and observable through experiment as real, "god" simply does not fall into this category.
346  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why There Should Be A Bitcoin Central Bank on: August 26, 2014, 01:04:47 PM
I don't think we will ever see any kind of trading in the form of paper bitcoin. This would simply be too risky for the person accepting/receiving the paper bicoin. Even if the merchant were to check the balance associated with the paper bitcoin wallet prior to giving goods to the buyer, the buyer could still transfer the balance out of the address at a later point until there is a confirmed TX out of the address associated with the paper bitcoin.

An interesting point.

The same could be said of paper gold certificates yet they make the bulk of the gold trade. But of course it is more difficult to take physical delivery of gold and so that probably explains it.  People trading certainty for convenience.

Wheras Bitcoin can quite easily be held by a user. So yes one would think promisory notes for bitcoin were risky and thus stupid, as do I. (I also think paper gold is risky).

This concept would only work if you are dealing with someone who is very trusted or if you are giving this as a gift to someone.

You obviously trust yourself close to 100%  (as do I), but take my word for it, there are many people out their who would rather trust a besuited "professional" especially when it comes to matters like private key security. Many people will be spooked to have the burden of private key security on their shoulders. Perhaps not for grocery money amounts but for their primary bank account, yes most will prefer to trade convenience for certainty. (IMHO)

I think there is a very big difference between trusting a professional managing/handling your money and trusting some stranger that you recently dealt with from not stealing from you when they have the opportunity after the fact.

My point is that even "proffessionals" are just strangers in suits and can not be fully trusted.

I say I trust myself more than any professional, to expect any stranger to give a shit about you is rather naive, they will only pretend to while they are being paid.

Remember this is after all why bitcoin was created, to keep a public ledger without having to trust anyone.






347  Economy / Speculation / Re: 4th Bitcoin buble on: August 26, 2014, 04:52:45 AM
too early to talk about bubble, we are still in a downtrend.

Well we're going sideways in my opinion.

Of course the "bubble" is not here yet, that's why we're only talking about it. Roll Eyes

When it arrives we will be in it and then talking about the inevitable top.
348  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 26, 2014, 04:42:55 AM
you know how much i enjoy putting up news that verifies that we, as Bitcoiners, are not hacculinating or existing in an echo chamber about past details regarding moral hazard/corruption in the financial system...

Thanks! It makes me feel like I'm not the last one standing in a B movie "Invasion of the Mind Snatchers".
349  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 26, 2014, 04:20:14 AM
Back in 2004 I had it all mapped out in my brain: sell real estate, buy gold, then silver. Wait 5-10 years for the inevitable real estate crash, sell PMs (I was predicting $3k - $5k per oz) and buy real estate again. Obviously my friends and rels said I was nuts. In retrospect it was a pretty good plan...

Gold has risen by ~12% per annum from 2004 ... 2014

Renting out a house gives less than 10% per annum.

Real estate has dropped in value (at least here in europe).

Yes I would say that was a good plan (provided you still had somewhere to live rent free).

but I hadn't counted on those bitches at the Fed and their desperate need to keep the banks afloat at all costs...

 Cheesy Sit tight, it seems the problem has been pushed out of money space and into derivatives, all hell will break loose when the derivatives markets unwind!
350  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [CLOSED]Minion Chip Assembly GB on: August 26, 2014, 03:55:45 AM
I have no idea what this said "Jody's Log" is all about.. I just wanted an up date man.

Jody was the PR lady for Butterfly Labs (maybe still is?), she setup a blog to appease customers as their patience wore thin, this did appease them for some time until the blog just kept on going and going.

I jumped ship and managed to sell a pre order for a 60GH unit for 7.5BTC, a couple of weeks later it shipped, had I waited it out, mined and resold on ebay I probably could have made a little more than I ended up getting.

Anyway here's hoping we get our boards soon.
351  Economy / Speculation / Re: 4th Bitcoin buble on: August 26, 2014, 01:55:10 AM
Well this is thread in which to call it

so my prediction (similar to those above):

next top $5k ± $2k

correcting to $3k ± $1.5 k

https://i.imgur.com/BgFvwvu.png




EDIT: To address OPs question:

From a system analysis perspective (control theory)

The volatility I think is caused because the system is running at high gain and is not damped, so large oscillations in the groupthink of all users happens.

Anyone who understands what money is and what bitcoin is are lucky enough to be early adopters during these still early days.
352  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why There Should Be A Bitcoin Central Bank on: August 26, 2014, 01:41:19 AM
I don't think we will ever see any kind of trading in the form of paper bitcoin. This would simply be too risky for the person accepting/receiving the paper bicoin. Even if the merchant were to check the balance associated with the paper bitcoin wallet prior to giving goods to the buyer, the buyer could still transfer the balance out of the address at a later point until there is a confirmed TX out of the address associated with the paper bitcoin.

An interesting point.

The same could be said of paper gold certificates yet they make the bulk of the gold trade. But of course it is more difficult to take physical delivery of gold and so that probably explains it.  People trading certainty for convenience.

Wheras Bitcoin can quite easily be held by a user. So yes one would think promisory notes for bitcoin were risky and thus stupid, as do I. (I also think paper gold is risky).

This concept would only work if you are dealing with someone who is very trusted or if you are giving this as a gift to someone.

You obviously trust yourself close to 100%  (as do I), but take my word for it, there are many people out their who would rather trust a besuited "professional" especially when it comes to matters like private key security. Many people will be spooked to have the burden of private key security on their shoulders. Perhaps not for grocery money amounts but for their primary bank account, yes most will prefer to trade convenience for certainty. (IMHO)
353  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why There Should Be A Bitcoin Central Bank on: August 26, 2014, 01:16:33 AM
...if a large enough number of customers of a specific bank want to get their money back, the bank wouldn’t be able to meet the demand...

Banks all cover each others asses. One bank has a run and the others all chip in to cover it, they all sign in to a mutual insurance scheme, it's an old boys network if you will.

If that fails then the central bank ( a private org employed by gov ) steps in and fires up the presses.
354  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why There Should Be A Bitcoin Central Bank on: August 26, 2014, 01:10:53 AM
so that we can have btc fractional reserve which most of us already hate ? But there are people out there are cool with fractional.

Nobody who understands what fractional reserve is are cool with it, except for the bankers of course.

The problem is that very few people understand what fractional reserve is.

And because of this I think it's inevitable that fractional reserve layer will be placed upon bitcoin.

Of course the base protocol will remain pure, it might be a Bretton Woods system on Bitcoin. So we should (at least for some years) be able to continue trading BTC as if we were bullion dealers.
355  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 26, 2014, 12:46:08 AM
Decided I'll sell 50% of my gold tomorrow and buy 4-5 BTC with the cash  Grin

I think you will be positioned well, if you can hit BTC top then you will be sitting pretty on even more gold in some months. Good luck!

the good news is i think he's hitting a BTC bottom.

Woops, I wrote it ambiguously.

Yes, he's buying BTC at a bottom.

I meant he should also try and pick the top, sell the BTC purchased at the top, buy more gold and win.

EDIT: For what it's worth my personal prediction for next top is  $5k ± $2k

356  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: August 25, 2014, 11:57:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IkGDptX6YI
357  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 25, 2014, 11:52:07 PM
Decided I'll sell 50% of my gold tomorrow and buy 4-5 BTC with the cash  Grin

I think you will be positioned well, if you can hit BTC top then you will be sitting pretty on even more gold in some months. Good luck!
358  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: August 25, 2014, 11:28:04 PM
Lol, well, av smoked a bit in ma time, n man enuff tae ken when I'm both strong or weak.. right now, your 6 times weaker in all abilities, bar 1.. and that dont seem to matter..  hence tonight I win.. whatever lol

OK, you win, catch you later.
359  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: August 25, 2014, 11:20:41 PM
so what you been smoking?

Only the finest... organically grown pure sativa strains.

So your (officially) 6 times dumber then?

Whatever you say god boy.

Now run along to buy your Kestrel super strength lager to fuel your righteous crusade.
360  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: August 25, 2014, 11:12:59 PM
so what you been smoking?

Only the finest... organically grown pure sativa strains.
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