Is BCP still desperately shilling for BFL? Yep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias"Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is the tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.[Note 1][1] People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position." BCP is the poster child for confirmation bias. I bet BCP thinks Sonny didn't serve time for his part in $25 million worth of mail fraud. It was all just a "misunderstanding".  Shillers gonna shill. But shillers ain't gonna get monarchs. |
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You need more proof than a United States Probation Officers under oath testimony in open court... Even defence council isn't stupid enough to question the validity of that statement...
Plus, BFL did not dispute the numbers of complaints in court (which means it was less than what would have been produced by examination of BFL records). This is just another case of BCP19 grasping at straws to salvage what he can of his ego. It has to suck for him, all those promises of Monarchs for shilling and now he gets nothing!  I wonder if CNBC would be interested in doing an episode of American Greed on BFL and their astroturfers. |
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Got the first reply saying I'm not eligible and blablabla, going to pull the FTC rules now... Here's the response: Hello Helder,
BF Labs, Inc. is offering refunds for any orders 6 months or older. If your order is less than 6 months old, you are not eligible for a refund at this point in time.
If your order does not ship within 6 months of the order date, you will be eligible for a full refund OR a 50% voucher for an additional Monarch card, OR a doubling of purchased hashrate of our Mining By The GH service.
Note: if you purchased your product during our Black Friday or End of Year sales events, you will not receive a 50% off voucher.
At this time, your order dates do not qualify for a refund request.
If the time should come that they reach 6 months past the order date and we have not filled your order, then a refund request would be honored, or the other options mentioned would be available if you would decide to keep your order.
In addition, when we do refund, we use the same means that we received funds. Bitcoin payments would be refunded through Bitpay, but bank wire transactions would be returned in that manner.
Dennis BF Labs
Dennis' claim is bullshit. Saying your order needs to be 6 months old or older is saying that you are an investor that can't pull your money out of the house of cards until we are ready to get you your money back to you. A consumer has a right to request a refund. Failure to do so has many legal implications. BFL needs to tread softly or else they will end up in court and bankrupt purely by their customers (i mean investors). well this is what bfl has been doing for more then 1 year...and getting away with it up till now FTC and etc have done zip to this point..hopefully it is finally at a point that AG of kansas and FTC and the class action suit are getting some traction..but yeah it was humbling all last year with everyone saying 'you can get this it is the law' and calling FTC and AG of BFL's county and at least if i remember right it was the FTC saying...well they will ship eventually right..call us back if you don't get it within the year...(treated the miners as a TV set) so with that loophole in enforcement (heard guys that got bff equip 9 months late getting comments like 'well you got the item right why are you calling us" from the regulators...BFL last year anyway drove a TRUCK thru these loopholes in enforcement imho anyway hopefully this summer enforcement is more on the ball Searing First you have to ask for your refund. Then you have to ask FTC, AG, etc for help. Then you can go to small claims court and claim exhaustion and ask for remedial measures. |
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No matter what happens, file a complaint with the FTC. Then let BFL know that you will be taking legal action against them if they refuse the refund. If they still refuse then do just that: If you paid by wire or credit card, call your bank and tell them you are a victim of fraud. Call the Kansas state attorney's office and tell them you are a victim of a fraud put on by a company in their state. Contact Sonny's probation officer and notify him that BFL is refusing refunds which is against US law. Contact woodlaw.com, they are putting together a class action suit against BFL. http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/butterfly-labs-and-bf-labs-inc-bitcoin-minersBFL has already lost one case in court. BFL claimed they would appeal the judgement and get it overturned, but they never did. It looks like BFL will never get that card working right, it can't even hash for longer than a few minutes without overheating. That means they have never really tested their chips for long duration mining. With BFL's total lack of skills and serious power density, it is likely that the chips themselves will have local hot spots that kill performance. Even if they get it working, it won't earn back more than you paid for it. Get your money while there is still money left to get. |
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According to FTC rules you do not have to wait for a refund. Don't let them screw you over. 2 options. 1. Report they are not refunding you to Sonny V's probation officer. http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190031/2014-01-28-USA-v-Vleisides-TranscriptNow, the company's critics have fresh ammunition because of this
same executive. A federal judge in Kansas has ruled that the man in
question, Sonny Vleisides, violated the terms of his probation in the
lottery scam case. As a result, Vleisides’ probation—previously slated
to end in September 2013—will now continue for another two years. 2. Join the class action lawsuit here.I'm not going to do that yet, as I'm also not a US citizen... That won't matter. The FTC is enforcing rules that BFL is supposed to follow, it doesn't matter where there customers are. The probation officer is enforcing rules Sonny is supposed to follow (e.g. don't rip people off anymore). You don't need to be a US citizen in order to join the class action. |
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I stupidly accepted the free Imperial upgrade (plus 600GHs Monarch at the end of the queue) for my August 17th 65nm conversion order for a 600GHs. So that order is trapped for 6 months from the time of the upgrade.
Step 1) Ask for a refund because they have not shipped the goods they sold you months ago Step 2) Watch BFL refuse to refund your order Step 3) File and appear in your local small claims court and explain to the judge that BFL sold you merchandise but never delivered it Step 4) Judge rules in your favor for two reasons, first BFL did not show up, second the law is on your side Step 5) Tell BFL you now have a court judgement mandating a refund, would they like to fight it or just give you your money Step 6) Report back here with BFL's reponse. 1 small problem to your list: Who Can Sue And Be Sued?
Any individual, business, partnership, or corporation (with a couple of exceptions) may bring a small claims suit for recovery of money only for an amount up to $5,000.
In general, the claim must be filed in the district court of the county in which the defendant(s) reside.
While the amount varies from state to state, the highlighted portion tends to remain the same. That quote was from a document describing how residents of the state of Washington bring small claims. http://www.courts.wa.gov/newsinfo/resources/brochure_scc/smallclaims.docFrom http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter21-7.htmlIf, however, the person or business regularly transacts with Internet customers in your state, then you should be able to bring your lawsuit in your local small claims court. In the context of Internet transactions, what does it mean to "regularly do business" in a state? The courts are actively discussing this issue, and different judges have different opinions, but here are some basic guidelines:
Does the website conduct direct sales over the Internet (versus referring customers to offline distributors, retail stores, or other resellers)? (yes)
At the time of the transaction, did the person or business know what state you were a resident of–for example, did you fill out a form with your address or have a package shipped to you? (almost certainly)
Does the person or business do a lot of business with state residents? (for large states, yes)
Does the person or business have any offices or employees in-state, even though its main "location" is on the Internet? (probably no)
Does the person or business send employees or agents into your state to conduct business? (yes to any state that has a convention or BTC meetup)
Does the person or business advertise or solicit business in your state? (yes via adwords)
Does the person or business have a registered agent for service of process in your state? (probably not)
...
Example 2: James lives in California. He buys new gears for his brand new $3,000 bicycle from a bicycle parts distributor on eBay, Will Wheely. Will, who is based in Nevada, sells almost all his inventory via eBay. The gears are defective, and James crashes, ruining the bicycle. James finds out that Will Wheely bought the gears from Big Gear, Inc., a bicycle parts manufacturer in Florida that does occasional business in California. James later learns that both Will and Big Gear were aware that the gears had a defect. Can James sue either Will Wheely or Big Gear in California small claims court to get compensation for his busted bike?
Yes. James can sue both Will and Big Gear in California. Even though neither potential defendant is a California resident, they each purposefully caused an injury in the state by placing the gears in commerce in California. |
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Should be an open and shut case to get this re-opened and dismissed.
Looks like it is taking BFL Two Weeks(TM) to get the case dismissed. |
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I stupidly accepted the free Imperial upgrade (plus 600GHs Monarch at the end of the queue) for my August 17th 65nm conversion order for a 600GHs. So that order is trapped for 6 months from the time of the upgrade.
Step 1) Ask for a refund because they have not shipped the goods they sold you months ago Step 2) Watch BFL refuse to refund your order Step 3) File and appear in your local small claims court and explain to the judge that BFL sold you merchandise but never delivered it Step 4) Judge rules in your favor for two reasons, first BFL did not show up, second the law is on your side Step 5) Tell BFL you now have a court judgement mandating a refund, would they like to fight it or just give you your money Step 6) Report back here with BFL's reponse. |
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I am not paid to post
BFL gave you a miner in return for being a staunch defender of their shady tactics. BFL definitely got their money's worth. This is your fantasy, which does not make it true. I was telling stupid people like you they were stupid for months before that happened. I supposed that means in your twisted mind that I was lobbying for free equipment by telling stupid people they were stupid. You're doing great though, you are actually out-stupiding the others now. Keep up the good work, you're well on your way to the King of Stupid! BCP is like mini-Josh, constantly calling everyone an asshole or idiot. Funny how the BFL supporters turn out to be asshats, big surprise! BCP = 9 months wrong capped by pretending to be a troll. Another white knight bites the dust. In other news, no monarchs yet!  |
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How many shares in BFL / EMC do you own BCP?
I am sure they converted his promised Monarchs into mining contracts. He must be making out ok to suffer the humiliation of 10B+ difficulty and still no Monarchs. But shillers gotta shill.  |
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[...]Let me clarify for you even further. I agree [edit.: with the no-pre-order-policy and best-product-of-the-shelf-buy].
I would however add that BFL has NEVER EVER put out product that is NEW and off the shelf. Everything has been pre-order or pre-used. Their best product is 2x the lowest price product available off the shelf. BFL is basic done. They have lied too much and scammed too much to be a player in the marketplace.
But this really is not my experience; I ordered my Single's in december off the shelf... And as I said: I - for one - truly hope they're not "done", seeing their "lying" as growing pains/miscommunication and never having seen any proof/sentence for "scamming". So as far as I'm concerned we're too far off to ever reach a common ground here. We agree on the most important principles (no-pre-order et cetera) and agree to disagree on BFL. (Off to diner, or my wife will..  The user sbogovac registered on January 11, 2014, 02:23:43 PM. I am guessing he was not here from Aug 2012 through May 2013 where the exact same process occurred (except with an earlier version of BFL's ASIC product). I am also guessing he was not here either in late 2011 through early 2012 where the exact same process occurred (except with an earlier version of BFL's FPGA product). I doubt he will read back over the last 3 years of "hey where is my stuff and why isn't it what you promised me?". Why should he? There is nothing for him to gain by doing so. |
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All stolen borrowed coins from generous pre-order sheep customers No quality comments added to this news article yet (under the video on the new site itself)? I am disappoint! What a promo for BFL,suprised Josh didn't get a BFL ad in there.Guess google will help with that  Sooo,more suckers suckered in I've given up on BTC mining,I'm switching to altcoins............$330 in electricity to make 1.5 BTC ($450 exchange rate),just ain't worth it  5 Antminers @ 950GH,2300 watts @ .13 per kw/h  With the diff rising as fast as it is,that will only get less.I don't see BTC going & staying @ the $700 it needs to make it work for me  The little altcoin ASIC's are way more efficient  Of course that won't last long either as the Titans & other very large miners get released,but there are around 30 altcoins to switch around to  Agreed. The Alts formerly mockingly called 'shitcoins' by early bitcoin adopters are going to save a fair number of home and small miners for the next phase as bitcoin mining becomes the domain of larger and larger mining operations. I have moved on to mining titcoins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oatx83Gy8kE |
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That is what Josh bought after failing to pay up on a 1000BTC bet he lost. If Josh owed me $500K, I would promise half to whoever collected it. Then I would eat popcorn and watch the fireworks |
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SpondooliesTechBest build and most efficient miner in the marketplace that is shipping from stock. Bitmain Best valued miner in the marketplace that is shipping from stock. BFLNo value. No miner. Lied to customers repeatedly. 6238 complaints in total or averaging 260 complaints every month for the past 2 years of production. Game over BCP. Game over. You picked the wrong the company. They have FAILED 3 times to deliver on time to their customers. No one is buying the excuses or their 16 month old designs. Keep avoiding the truth all you like, the point that is obvious to this community is that BFL can't compete with Bitmain or Spondoolies. Are you going to address that? No you won't. Nor will you address why the BFL executives seem to be accumulating 'wealth' in the form of cars and houses while the company shows a loss on the books and has customers calling for refunds which are denied and deferred for 30 to 45 days? Compare Spondoolies hosting to BFL's EMC offering, what do you see BCP? Explain and evaluate for everyone which is better you go first. Persuade us how much better EMC is to Spondoolies please. I would love to see your justification. No? Do not want to do the homework? Is it because value wise Spondoolies has a product that works today versus promises of EMC for tomorrow? You are a dishonest broker here BCP there are plenty of reasons to ignore you. The best reason is you lie. I am sure BCP will shift the subject to try to derail the thread and prevent people from finding the alternatives to BFL. Unless he gets his monarch in the next 3 days, difficulty is going to go from 8.8B to 10.XB and skip right over 9 billion. BCP will BFL out of the bet though. |
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Everyone else seems able to make boards work with chips. Somehow BFL cannot.
More pictures, still no Monarchs in the wild. Sad.
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pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase, facts schmacts, you can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! But then again BCP loves to ignore facts. Typical troll FUD... you think I meant what pool when I meant physical location. You guys are the ones that keep trotting out the "they mine with their gear up until it''s worthless and then ship" and now you have the idiots that are claiming the Monarch is already being used and won't ship until it too is worthless. What I posted shows that broad statements like that are patently false, as the network didn't hit the speeds needed to make it true until way late in the game. Over a year ago people were making the same claims, and back then the difficulty hadn't even changed. Only the truly stupid can believe that a company would be able to physically house (at that time) more equipment than is currently on the network and not affect it. Even today, let's say they had enough orders to increase the network by a mere 10%, that would be 8,000 Imperial Monarchs. 8,000 x ~550 = ~4.4 megawatts of power usage. Ask one of the datacenter people what kind of space would be needed for this, what kind of power requirements, what kind of cooling would be needed, etc. Even Bickfailskis vaunted immersion cooling he keeps trotting out would probably take 4 or 5 of those trailers to accomdate this much power and cooling needs. It matters not, the stupid people have already shown their faces as I expected they would, that's already an X in the win column. Typical troll FUD? From BFL's own mouth: "Butterfly Labs earns mining income from their bum testing of machines" http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190032/Butterfly-Labs-Production-of-Requested-Information-December-6-2013They made that statement under oath. They mine with customers machines before they ship them. BFL could easily be mining with quite a bit of their own stuff. BFL didn't make all of their devices in a batch (like normal companies do), but instead make a few hundred at a time. They mine with those for a bit, then ship them out. Simple, easy, hard to see in the block chain. This is BFL themselves have admitted to. They could run 3-4 weeks of Jalapeno & Single production and nobody would notice. That is less than 1% of the blockchain and well within the error margin. Only an idiot of epic proportions would believe that BFL first produced 45,000 units and then tried to mine with them all. Which is why BCP19 brought it up I suppose. |
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We all know they were mining for profit via burn in so that dust was infact dust from Eclipse mining facility most probably.
I believe that was a photo of an Avalon with dust and damage, not BFL. AFAIK there is no proof that Avalon mined extensively on the main blockchain, but that doesn't mean they didn't. It would be very tempting to do. We do know that BFL did, since they admitted to it at Sonny's court hearing. |
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Yeah. It is remarkable the extent to which the Monarch debacle mirrors their FPGA and first ASIC failures. Those unaware of history are doomed to repeat it indeed.
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Still no Monarchs in the wild?
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