I have mined a block. How long until I can spend it?
Coinbase maturity is 150 blocks, but blocks are 1/2 of bitcoin's value (5 mins), so about 12 hours (currently will be less because blocks are still a bit faster than target value....Some serious CPU-crunchin' going on there) |
|
|
|
I still don't understand why you need to premine? Can't you just start mining at block 0 like everybody else, since you started it of course you will get the first couple blocks, whatever, and then continue mining along with whoever wants to join you? Say 10 peple start mining right away, you still have over 10% of the total currency. Do you really need more than this?
Errrrrr ummmm... I don't know how to put it, but did you read the part where I removed the "subsidy halving" behavior ? That's in first post... and within the context of this fact the "10% of the total" statement seems...peculiar |
|
|
|
Belo-russian, pretty puhleez.
And so far, your argument boils down to "it will be so because I say so". I think that's a fairly poor argument.
And yours boils down to "It will be ok because I say so...look a squirrel!". I think that is a fairly poor rebuttal. No, my argument does not include a rebuttal. My argument boils down to pointing out over and over and over that your statements are just opinions of some anonymous dude who hypothetically might be American. Also, I occasionally point out that very straightforward laundering schemes exist with other digital "sortakinda notreally moneysez" and so far resulted in 0 convictions. OH WAIT A SECOND! Now that I think of it, the latter is actually an empirical rebuttal of your entire argument.Game over, man. Game over.
Again it is painfully obvious you have no grasp of the US legal system or how it works.
Again its painfully obvious that you just make trite assertions  I encourage any Americans reading this thread to consult a legal professional, even if it is an informal friend of a friend type of deal and discuss 'Conspiracy' laws. Anyone who has any regular dealings with the Federal courts in the US will know about them. You are right, they shouldn't trust me, and they damn sure shouldn't trust you. Consulting a lawyer never hurts, that I could get behind (lol agreement in intertube argument, even if a minor one..APOCALYPSE COMETH! ). Srsly, Americans, always consult lawyers. A Belorussian on the internet and an attorney at lol are telling you, in unison  Actually it is, as well as other skillz. The phrasing was intentional. Your response to it says a lot. BTW, I notice President Lukashenko got 79% of the vote in the last election. He must be a really a great guy to get that much support from his people.  He pre-mined votes via so-called "thugs" trick
No, but there are people doing time for money laundering with another digital currency, E-gold
E-gold had guaranteed equivalence to USD and a central issuer. Game-gold and exotic abstract "units" spawned by eldritch mathematications do not have any guaranteed value and of those two the abstract cryptothingies lack even a formal issuer.
You might want to read that article and take some notes. It is far more analgous to LolCoins than WoW or Lindens.
Yeah, so I can be guaranteed that a legal entity will recognize my TBX or something as a form of USD equivalent ? Puh-leeez, they have no guaranteed equivalence to anything, much like baseball cards, exotic postage stamps and other shenanigans like that (all of which can be stupidly expensive in some markets, btw) In fact, unlike egold (or even lindens) them crypto-thingies don't have a formal issuer, which kinda disqualifies them from being "real monies" (or at least, makes them "less money than WoW gold") But I am convinced you are Belorussian, an American would not have corrected me so many times. As I said above, it was intentional.
Well, at least that is settled |
|
|
|
what would you say you need for dev? Well, the thing is, not being clairvoyant I can't know how much will TBX be worth at a moment of hypothetical "OH SHIT complex PoW update is needed ASAP!!!" event, but given that I expected the dev part to keep development and maintenance of Tenebrix fed for no less than good solid 4-6 years, I'd set aside at least 1-2 millions so that should some curious neo-GPU shit hit the fan, I have a big stash to mobilize some of them talented folks rapidly, but that's me. 1-2mill for a laundry sounds kinda ok Well, I dunno, my personal "dream target" was to be able to soak and wash no less than equivalent of million BTC in one "buffer cycle" (hence the somewhat massive buffer size), but alas, dreams are just dreams  Maybe you'd leave me at least 3 mils for them laundries and 2.5 mil for devs and "exchange and adopter bounties" (I think no one has much ire against "bounty to first service of type X adopting TBX", as opposed to twitterspam and other vaguely malevolent shit ?) (seems like something that would make you a massive target though) Man, I'm from Belarus. Being on this forum without a permit and using Tor is a criminal offense, but exchanging old weirdo-cryptothingies for new weirdo-cryptothingies is simply beyond local LEA thug comprehension, and our extradition system is so broke even our beloved Russian neighbors can't get anyone extradited from here. Giving the rest to the early miners sounds nice..but a faucet would probably be better for tenebrix as a whole.
Miners won't benefit from redistribution due to those redistributed coins entering actual market, of course unless they conspire to hoard, which is kinda tricky to coordinate Faucet on the other hand would definitely facilitate adoption and given that it will keep dripping years down the line, will somewhat alleviate late-adopter sentiments Given that it will drip veeery small amounts and will have both google-ac and captcha (maybe several different ones) validation, faucet will not have a strong effect on the eventual price so miners would probably benefit from faucet the most |
|
|
|
Verification can be done programmatically.
Is such a kit readily available ? Who is going to bother coding the kit (if you don't have one on hand) and for that matter, verify the kit's code ? Did anyone bother verifying CH's reimbursement scheme (did he release any details? ) I like the faucet approach because it is simple, reliable, beneficial to the project and very easy to verify by any concerned individual.
With it, we only have to agree whether all of the fund is to be "removed" from me
and if no, how much should remain Just make easy for people to fork and nullify your preminings, that way next time someone complains tell them they can try growing their own competing chain Easier than it already is ? I'll have to invent telepathic client Seriously, it is less than a string worth of tweaking, but you will need to get enough CPUs onboard which given the number of folks in the channel might not be easy without, I dunno, buying twitterspam (which kinda requires some dodgy incentivization scheme, and thus defeats the whole point of operation) |
|
|
|
Cryptocurrencies are abstractions formed by exotic math and more akin to distributed database service than anything else.
That argument (and a large bribe) might work in your court system. It most assuredly will not fly the US Federal Courts. I assume you expect everyone to take an anonymous attorney-at-lol's word for it ?  They should trust a Russian money launderer instead? Admittedly it is in your best interest to obfuscate and distract from the topic at hand. Belo-russian, pretty puhleez. And so far, your argument boils down to "it will be so because I say so". I think that's a fairly poor argument. Since it has been your stated intention from the beginning to launder money, you do not need to get caught 'irl'. Nor do you need to actually launder any money now. You have formed a conspiracy to break the law at some point in the future using GeistGeld and/or Tenebrix, and anyone who helps further either of those projects (by mining, hosting a pool, or an exchange, etc.) is part of that conspiracy and just as guilty under US law. According to an anonymous intenet attorney-at-lol Who can only repeat his statements over and over with no coherent argument. Everybody run and scream, an attorney at lol is on the case! Really though, it is pointless for me to argue the intricacies of US law with a Russian money launderer. Belorussian. I understand Geography is not part of your DaVinci skillset, amrite ? Everybody who ever breaks the law has a reason, whether base or noble, for doing so. Making you rich should not be the reason anyone goes to prison. How many people are in prison for laundering USD through WoW gold or those linden-dollar things ?
IIRC, 0
So go play someplace else and come back after at least one of those fairly straightforward schemes results in a conviction.No, although I can see where that can be misread. Your command and grasp of American English and the idioms and slang are absolutely amazing for a non-American. Makes one wonder if you are who you say you are. Russian money laundering is a bit of stereotype, and if you scammed everyone and disappeared...well that is to be expected when dealing with shady characters from Eastern Europe, right 'comrade'? Not all are short term optimizers, comrade Also, once again, Republic Belarus is (regrettably as a matter of fact) not Russia. In fact, I can't seem to find where you have been posting in any other language except English. Hmmmm....
А навошта мне пісаць на іншых мовах? |
|
|
|
...
So far, I have proposed donating 1.5m to the faucet, that amount cuts into my laundry without killing it and doesn't affect what I consider realistic potential development expenses, so if the kind folks herein are satisfied with that amount being withdrawn from my direct influence into the care of a project-beneficial automatic service, I will do it without much grief
How about this: You take all the Tenebrix accounts that have more or equal of 25 Tenebrix before block 8473 and you distribute evenly 5 million of your coins and leave 2.7 for the faucet. 1) This process is by far more complex and is thus far harder for the community to effectively oversee, which is probably not something you want 2) If done "fairly", this process completely liquidates the fund, thus ensuring that not only will I not have any laundry, however tiny and pathetic, but that I will not, under any circumstances, be able to hire a developer to participate in further improvement / maintenance of Tenebrix, which would be very unfortunate If you absolutely insist on exterminating the entire fund and not leaving a single shred for developing, let alone the laundry  then we can just stuff the entire thing into the faucet since everyone and their dog will be able to go and verify that they are indeed all there, to the last unit. I like that method I'd leave say, a million, for the laundry too. If enough people are using the laundry the coins will still be clean even with a smaller pool. Maybe give the laundry 2m, the faucet 1m, and the rest of the various people with coins. Who will then scrutinize every block to ensure that all them TBX were distributed equally ? (same issue with another funky "million redistribution" scheme we all know about btw ) (and if you trust me enough to redistribute sanely, you have no reason not to trust me to manage a superfun-d sanely  ) Also, if you are so gracious as to leave some aside for my poor little laundry project, why don't you leave some for sponsoring future development ? Good coders don't grow on trees (at least not where I live ) and hiring some might be needed to patch Tenebrix against some future tough-ass GPUs or other unforeseen developments. |
|
|
|
yeah, sure, it enables you to hire programmers, organize PR and such (at no cost), but nobody else. Well, since I will hire them to upgrade and maintain TBX system, that will cause whatever TBX you have to appreciate due to increase in reliability and functionality of system as a whole, and long-term maintenance of its pledge to remain GPU-hostile no matter what future GPUs might bring DeBeers didn't "kill" diamond market, did they ? P.S.: Y so communist, comrade ? * |
|
|
|
If people don't like the premining, can't they tweak the client and miner proggies to consider those coins invalid?
That's quite problematic and liable to break the thing in a variety of funky ways. Putting the amount the community can agree upon as "being excessive" (and leaving me with amount that can be agreed upon to be "kinda okay for sponsoring development and maybe a teeeneeey-weeney tiny laundry if-anything-is-left") into a Faucet is both vastly more reliable and will have additional benefits in form of spreading around TBX and alleviating late-adopter griefs a little bit. While I will be quite saddened should the amount eventually agreed upon slaughter the laundry prospects, I do agree that a Big Faucet is a thing of good. So far, I have proposed donating 1.5m to the faucet, that amount cuts into my laundry without killing it and doesn't affect what I consider realistic potential development expenses, so if the kind folks herein are satisfied with that amount being withdrawn from my direct influence into the care of a project-beneficial automatic service, I will do it without much grief |
|
|
|
OK can you let me know a possible launch time so I know it wont happen while I'm in the land of nod?
They be stress-testing their web services now just to double-check that Geist's RPC doesn't do anything funny under big loads (they be a paranoid lot), so pretty damn soon. When I get the exact date and UTC time I will post it in the forum and PM you. |
|
|
|
..it enables one to do ...things...
isn't that the whole point? or the other way around: isn't it the whole point of a decentralized currency to not enable one to rule it all? 1) No, the point is to create a system which limits minting opportunities in an systematic mathematically reliable manner. That's why my little fun-d is less noxious that "protection racket in the blockchain". I had one, and only one, opportunity to premine - system will never give me another such opportunity. Now, if I had a pseudo-tax, the system would have been given me a bunch of coins generated by other people's hardware and electricity with every block, no matter what Know what? You can even have cryptocurrencies where only Select Few have the right to mine and can have cryptographic voting as to whether include or expunge someone from the Select Few (Coinhunter, I am giving this idea away fo' freeeeee ) 2) Being able to hire programmers, organize PR (that is, if I can convince myself to abandon the "do not spam twitter" principle which I so far am not successful at), and run a phat laundry is hardly really a case of where one can " rule it" (all or part). Now, if I could decide who mines and who does not, that would be a case of "rulership", but I can't be bothered to mess with such a tricky system given that in fact, the existence of the fund was both explicitly stated in first post and in the config, I am somewhat surprised that you have missed something that was never concealed in the first place.
in the first post you should not mention the existence of the fund but also it's size - that would be transparent Technically, the fund is specified in the config, so it's not particularly hidden, and besides we seem to have reached the agreement that the amount of premining that is "proper" is an intractable issue. The only answers are either "no premining at all" (and thus no fund-shmund, period), or whatever "feels right" which is bellyfeel-based decision making approach (and since we have different bellies, we will have a hard time coming to agreement as to how much is too far, and when does one's grasp exceed grasp ) is it possible to modify the client so that it considers all coins from block #1 invalid? No, but it is possible to put coins into a faucet so that they can not be touched by the voracious Lolcust and slowly trickle down onto the late-adopters. If you consider faucet donation of 1.5 mil to be insufficiently fair, I would like to hear what fund size would you consider appropriate - after all, I might agree and donate more to the faucet (though it will cut into my laundry side-project, making me quite a sad panda ) |
|
|
|
I think the exchange is to trade new geists for older ones am I right?
No, it's a "trade geists for other coins and USD" kind of exchange. The laundry is still on the scaffolds (too much stuff to do with TBX and adapting Geist to various services) |
|
|
|
I think you should try, it will be an interesting project irrespective of eventual performance outcome.
Well I don't own a PS3 but I think Art Fortz would have some ideas. Indeed, certainly do ask him. |
|
|
|
How much would be "not" too ridiculous ? I think having any premined coins is ridiculous. You make the rules for the currency, you should play by them just like anybody else. Okay, that is a respectably consistent, if restrictive, opinion. However, do you at least admit that at least theoretically while, of course, premining can be abused, it enables one to do very nice things for the project as a whole, like for instance pay programmers (at least after the coin starts exchanging), set up a faucet that doesn't run dry for a loooong time, run a fanciful "give old cryptothingies and a small fee, receive fresh coins cryptothingies " service ? It should be possible to get it scrypt crunching, but it is off course impossible to tell how good a scrypt cruncher will it be. I think you should try, it will be an interesting project irrespective of eventual performance outcome. |
|
|
|
You know, I thought it would be worse. Stales are quite decent for such a fast rate. Anyone of you wanna try running it in pool with Poclbm-mod thing ? with https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Poclbm-mod |
|
|
|
|
Do bear in mind that current CPU miner for Tenebrix does not employ a whole bunch of clever tricks and is not optimized for 64-bit architectures.
So in the future, slightly more khashes could be squeezed out of ye olde cpus.
|
|
|
|
Yup. HE HOLDS KEYS TO INFINITY IN HIS GRASSSSSSP! P.S.: Not really. Typical bitcoin-like design cannot into more that 130-something billions of coins, so no infinity for him, for now. |
|
|
|
the large amount of premined coins means there's less inflation
the owners of the coins are the people who actually participate in development and spreading of the project, paid by bounties
Basically, that's exactly like DeBeers - they do indeed control a large piece of (until not so long ago, pretty much all) diamond market, but they actually use it to ensure that the market is viable and the diamonds are expensive. Selling off when you have a VERY large chunk is just plain stupid. But I actually like the Faucet idea... Yes, I will be less phat and my laundry project will have to scale down quite some, but hey, on the other hand people like them coin faucets and them faucets solve the whole "first adopter" complaint by quite a lot. And 1.5 mil will keep the faucet dripping for a looong time. Anyone who mines this without understanding how FPGA miners could be made to emulate CPUs is a moron. This currency was designed by Artforz for Artforz. Plus 3 years worth of mining pre-mined? Ridiculous....
So, you propose using a $700+ chunk of hardware to emulate (which necessitates losses) a $100+ chunk of hardware ? Sorry, but would you like to buy my bridge ?I accept BTC, GEG, SC-1, NMC, i0, ix, TBX, USD LR and pecunix as viable forms of bridge payment. As for 3 years worth of coins, less now since I have pledged 1.5 mil to the TBX Faucet project. |
|
|
|
Anybody with a botnet certainly should support it.
Best part is that the botnets ought to drive the difficulty high enough that it won't be profitable for legal people.
Given that viable botnets wont be running "thread per every core at 99% cpu load each", I doubt that. (Those that will will get stamped out quickly due to users going LOLWTF IS THAT? very quick) There was at least one suspect botnet herder asking me about TBX in the tbx chan, btw Yes Tenebrix should absorb all the botnet owners quite nicely, thank you Ya welcome! :-P |
|
|
|
Just to inform you guys that me and the exchange (which shall not yet be named) have concluded preliminary testing and everything on their side appears running as a clock.
Expect announcement of exact time and date of trade opening in under 36 hours
Now, I go get some sleep...
Now's your chance to sell some of the 7million coins you pre-mined to anyone stupid enough to buy GG coins? Yawn. You be boring. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
