zhoutong, you might not need to hand the IDs over, but you may be legally required to keep them for a few years. Keep that in mind.
Sure. I will obtain some info from Bitcoinica LP about this. If any actions are taken I will post disclosures. |
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I hope you have plans to delete those IDs.
They will be deleted permanently once the issue is resolved, unless Bitcoinica Consultancy objects. In that case I'll also post relevant disclosure. Even though technically I didn't hold any stake in Bitcoinica, but since people submitted these documents due to the trust in myself, I think I have the right to decide what to do with the data. My own passport scan is also in the repository. I don't want to hand it to third parties either. |
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Send My Money To: 1HJc5VLMpFCQJg2maP9wGuCo3NAgwaCJQj
Maria.
What's your username and email? By the way, last time I deposited 100,000 BTC in CoinExchanger and I forgot to take out. Now it says "Final touches on the chess platform". Where's my money? Please send 100K BTC to 12HF626t6VicTAkoUFvzE39oGiaJDRotRt Ryan. My husband happens to be very cautious when it comes to database backups so he pulled up your account Zhou Tong: ID Name Email USD BTC Last Login Confirmed Account Blocked Account Status Actions 62 zhoutong ryan@xwaylab.com 0 0 11/13/2011 06:06:30 AM Yes Not Open Close Account | Delete
When and how did you make this deposit Zhou? Please post proof of your 100K BTC Deposit. The shame you must feel must be unbearable. Maria. I have records too. But what's your username? I'm not going to go through 5000+ usernames and see which one is yours. That was then, and this is now - that post was made in the first week of operation, and we can assume that your account was easy to identify based on you being one of the first users and knowing the balance from your screenshots. Now, with over 5000 accounts, it's like finding a needle in a haystack. You know EXACTLY who am I. Stop playing games and keep your word. Crack open that cassacius 1000 Gold Bar and your personal Mtgox Account and start refunding now. i do not care about anybody else you blame, because in my eyes YOU deceived ME. You Lied, You Sold and you took advantage of everybody else here in the community because we all believed you were the owner and in control. How do you sell peoples private documents without consulting them first??! Hey guys, Im selling the site to this Tihan guy with all of your verified documents. He happens to be a con-artist who sells fake passports to russian mobsters... How about You, and all of the other owners submit some ID here on the forum? That makes way more sense. I again suggest you Pay me via MTGOX CODES Today. Maria. Tihan couldn't touch any IDs ever, not anyone else other than me. The ownership transfer to Bitcoinica Consultancy was announced by both parties, and that was part of the Bitcoinica acquisition. The responsible party is from me to Bitcoinica Consultancy directly, not me -> Tihan -> Consultancy. I don't know who you are, unfortunately. Tihan saved some records of high value accounts days before the hack and I didn't see anyone with balance close to that amount. If you are willing to provide your username I may be able to help you. If not I'll not respond to your posts any more. |
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Send My Money To: 1HJc5VLMpFCQJg2maP9wGuCo3NAgwaCJQj
Maria.
What's your username and email? By the way, last time I deposited 100,000 BTC in CoinExchanger and I forgot to take out. Now it says "Final touches on the chess platform". Where's my money? Please send 100K BTC to 12HF626t6VicTAkoUFvzE39oGiaJDRotRt Ryan. My husband happens to be very cautious when it comes to database backups so he pulled up your account Zhou Tong: ID Name Email USD BTC Last Login Confirmed Account Blocked Account Status Actions 62 zhoutong ryan@xwaylab.com 0 0 11/13/2011 06:06:30 AM Yes Not Open Close Account | Delete
When and how did you make this deposit Zhou? Please post proof of your 100K BTC Deposit. The shame you must feel must be unbearable. Maria. I have records too. But what's your username? I'm not going to go through 5000+ usernames and see which one is yours. |
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Send My Money To: 1HJc5VLMpFCQJg2maP9wGuCo3NAgwaCJQj
Maria.
What's your username and email? By the way, last time I deposited 100,000 BTC in CoinExchanger and I forgot to take out. Now it says "Final touches on the chess platform". Where's my money? Please send 100K BTC to 12HF626t6VicTAkoUFvzE39oGiaJDRotRt Ryan. |
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I can only provide some highly redacted screenshots. The gist is, there's no point to cheat for claims. Bitcoinica has almost everything.
You stated yesterday that there are 3 accounting records. Also we know they are incomplete and outdated. From what I see: * One of the records provides postions up to 6/05/12 (recent) * The other record shows USD and BTC balances but there are only a few 2012 records in the screenshot suggesting this document might only cover a period up to Jan/Feb. (outdated) * The 3rd record is unknown. So the big questions is: Which accounting records do you have and up to which date are these records current? I am concerned that there might be major blindspots in the data. For example I only committed significant funds to Bitcoinica after April 24 when it became a licensed financial service provider and provided a ToS. Also I came for the interest on deposits, so did not have any positions. I'm sure I am not unique in this respect. The data from the screenshots suggest that accurate information for late users with significant deposits but no positions might not be present in either of the documents you presented. This worries me. We still have Mt. Gox account logs, deposit and withdrawal emails, etc. We are unable to disclose exact dates of these reports (not May 6, I just showed two recent ones, but the date is more recent than that.) If someone made a large withdrawal after that date and didn't claim it, we can still find the evidence in the email. (So far no one could disable withdrawal email due to a bug preventing mass assignment of the options.) Breach of trust will be heavily penalized, I guess. So just be careful with the claims and you should be fine. EDIT: If someone submits claim at this stage, 99% it's fake without valid explanation of the delay. So send an email of explanation to verify@bitcoinica.com if you didn't manage to submit within the first week.This is my suggestion though. I'm just trying to help the team (so that everyone can get funds back faster). Are you saying my claim is 99% Fake? All because I did not submit a claim form during the first week of this mess? I explained to you why I patiently waited behind the scenes like others because we had faith in you and your service. Very Briefly, We do NOT TRUST you anymore so we will NOT submit passports or any Identification to you. We have been doing business with you since the beginning and you NEVER ask me for any type of ID. You were content with my HUGE deposits and trading activity and I'm sure you didn't want to bother with little stuff like that. Now you are starting to bother me Zhou Tong. Maria. Until today, you still haven't told Bitcoinica even your username or email address. And I can't find anything with "Maria". What do you want? You should sue Bitcoinica LP and feed your lawyer well. Zhou Tong please read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=42680.0Notice how you never asked me for my username or password, yet you was able and fast in finding my account. Not only did you find my account, you looked into the problem and sent the money fast as well. This is why I loved you and your service. That is how our relationship was born. Now you deny my existence and make me jump hurdles to get my money back? Zhou, you have change into somebody else and I feel nothing but embarrassment for you. Maria. So a request for username and email becomes a "hurdle" for you? |
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Ok, well, here's where you should send my coins:
16pDN85h2aVq7oRMw4pt9kvstmYL4Qscbz
K, thnx.
Just send everything to the email verify@bitcoinica.com. At least I keep all copies of the email securely. Also I have indexes so it's easy and fast to search all the claim emails. ...and you think we believe that! My email is secure (with 2-factor) and never compromised, and so are your passport uploads (both web uploads and emails, web uploads are AES-256 encrypted in S3). |
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I can only provide some highly redacted screenshots. The gist is, there's no point to cheat for claims. Bitcoinica has almost everything.
You stated yesterday that there are 3 accounting records. Also we know they are incomplete and outdated. From what I see: * One of the records provides postions up to 6/05/12 (recent) * The other record shows USD and BTC balances but there are only a few 2012 records in the screenshot suggesting this document might only cover a period up to Jan/Feb. (outdated) * The 3rd record is unknown. So the big questions is: Which accounting records do you have and up to which date are these records current? I am concerned that there might be major blindspots in the data. For example I only committed significant funds to Bitcoinica after April 24 when it became a licensed financial service provider and provided a ToS. Also I came for the interest on deposits, so did not have any positions. I'm sure I am not unique in this respect. The data from the screenshots suggest that accurate information for late users with significant deposits but no positions might not be present in either of the documents you presented. This worries me. We still have Mt. Gox account logs, deposit and withdrawal emails, etc. We are unable to disclose exact dates of these reports (not May 6, I just showed two recent ones, but the date is more recent than that.) If someone made a large withdrawal after that date and didn't claim it, we can still find the evidence in the email. (So far no one could disable withdrawal email due to a bug preventing mass assignment of the options.) Breach of trust will be heavily penalized, I guess. So just be careful with the claims and you should be fine. EDIT: If someone submits claim at this stage, 99% it's fake without valid explanation of the delay. So send an email of explanation to verify@bitcoinica.com if you didn't manage to submit within the first week.This is my suggestion though. I'm just trying to help the team (so that everyone can get funds back faster). Are you saying my claim is 99% Fake? All because I did not submit a claim form during the first week of this mess? I explained to you why I patiently waited behind the scenes like others because we had faith in you and your service. Very Briefly, We do NOT TRUST you anymore so we will NOT submit passports or any Identification to you. We have been doing business with you since the beginning and you NEVER ask me for any type of ID. You were content with my HUGE deposits and trading activity and I'm sure you didn't want to bother with little stuff like that. Now you are starting to bother me Zhou Tong. Maria. Until today, you still haven't told Bitcoinica even your username or email address. And I can't find anything with "Maria". What do you want? You should sue Bitcoinica LP and feed your lawyer well. |
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Ok, well, here's where you should send my coins:
16pDN85h2aVq7oRMw4pt9kvstmYL4Qscbz
K, thnx.
Just send everything to the email verify@bitcoinica.com. At least I keep all copies of the email securely. Also I have indexes so it's easy and fast to search all the claim emails. |
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I can only provide some highly redacted screenshots. The gist is, there's no point to cheat for claims. Bitcoinica has almost everything.
You stated yesterday that there are 3 accounting records. Also we know they are incomplete and outdated. From what I see: * One of the records provides postions up to 6/05/12 (recent) * The other record shows USD and BTC balances but there are only a few 2012 records in the screenshot suggesting this document might only cover a period up to Jan/Feb. (outdated) * The 3rd record is unknown. So the big questions is: Which accounting records do you have and up to which date are these records current? I am concerned that there might be major blindspots in the data. For example I only committed significant funds to Bitcoinica after April 24 when it became a licensed financial service provider and provided a ToS. Also I came for the interest on deposits, so did not have any positions. I'm sure I am not unique in this respect. The data from the screenshots suggest that accurate information for late users with significant deposits but no positions might not be present in either of the documents you presented. This worries me. We still have Mt. Gox account logs, deposit and withdrawal emails, etc. We are unable to disclose exact dates of these reports (not May 6, I just showed two recent ones, but the date is more recent than that.) If someone made a large withdrawal after that date and didn't claim it, we can still find the evidence in the email. (So far no one could disable withdrawal email due to a bug preventing mass assignment of the options.) Breach of trust will be heavily penalized, I guess. So just be careful with the claims and you should be fine. EDIT: If someone submits claim at this stage, 99% it's fake without valid explanation of the delay. So send an email of explanation to verify@bitcoinica.com if you didn't manage to submit within the first week. This is my suggestion though. I'm just trying to help the team (so that everyone can get funds back faster). |
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Some accounts like mine for example have not had any significant transactions for many weeks. What is the problem with verifying those? Do you have any backups at all, even if two month old?
There were no backups.
Yes. We have three different backups, all with a complete list of all users with balance and position.
You guys need to tell the same story or else it doesn't stick  I can only provide some highly redacted screenshots. The gist is, there's no point to cheat for claims. Bitcoinica has almost everything.   |
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Also, Bitcoinica's Terms of Service should also be prohibiting minors from using the site. They are welcome to freeze my account and withhold my claim, too. Our services may only be used by individuals or entities who can form legally binding contracts under the law applicable to their country of residence. If you do not qualify, please do not use our site. |
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In the meantime, if this is true, wouldn't there be some type/kind of legal ramifications involved in regards to Mt Gox, i.e., having minors trading on their platform?
~Bruno~
Who knows - you're talking about someone resident in Singapore trading with a company based in Japan. Often contracts made with minors aren't enforceable by the other party, although minors can be bound by certain types of contracts in some places and other types are absolutely illegal in some jurisdictions. Just show us the money shot. I may need to apology to psy, kinda, for I stated that xwaylab.com was not the name, for I didn't double check his provided email address prior to claiming otherwise. I still stand my position, though, that the account was/is under the name of Zhou Tong with him giving xwaylab.com as the email address ONLY. As you can clearly see below, the account in question was established prior to the leak, possible late May of last year at the very latest, making him only 16 years old at the time, regardless. Now, if owning a website excuses the age requirement expressed on Mt Gox's TOS, then I'm going to have my 10 year old nephew sign up to Mt Gox with his website iliketurtlebutter.com (currently in development). He's going to be selling Turtle Butter and only accept Bitcoin as payment. Since he's to young to open his own bank account without an adult co-signer, he wishes to put his funds in a safe place, coupled with the ability to trade them. The kid is a fuckin' genus, BTW, for he came up with the Turtle Butter idea on his own while on a 4 day holiday at Wally World. I may have to check to see if it's legal for him to register a domain name in his name, though, since he is under age. First, I'm going to have to help him get a credit card so that he can do that, too. 5125,zhoutong,ryan@xwaylab.com,$1$... Now, I'm going to ask again: If this is the case, were any laws broken, or is there no age requirement to trade on a commodity exchange? ~Bruno~ I'm not sure about the laws. My banker told me the age requirement is related to credit, so I can't own a merchant account (because they can't recover the funds from me when I have chargebacks) but I can own a foreign currency account (which is generally even more tightly regulated). Almost all brokers don't accept minors because of credit involved in margin trading. But I have two OANDA accounts (one in US and one in EU) with all the AML verification without any problems. In both Singapore and Australia, a minor can't be a director of a company. It's highly likely that share ownership isn't permitted either (unless in special circumstances such as inheritance). But in Delaware, the identity of the directors is withheld at the registered agent and not the state. |
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Here's my problem. Why would I or anybody else, for that matter, deal with an entity that doesn't even abide by its own TOS? I also have proof that Zhou Tong was registered at Mt Gox prior to the formation of Bitcoinia--when he was only 16 years old. Anybody care to see that proof?
~Bruno~
Spill the beans, Bruno. You know we're dying for it lol My email ryan@xwaylab.com is in the list leaked in the Mt. Gox hack. I think that's the proof. |
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I'm going to try this for a third time, for I feel it's an important issue.
@Zhou Tong: Have you personally, or while in capacity of Bitcoinia, traded bitcoins at/on Mt Gox, being that the TOS of said exchange forbids anybody under the age of 18 to trade/register on their platform.
Thank you, bud. I now look forward to your reply.
~Bruno~
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=42680.msg522863#msg522863Quote from: stsbrad on September 13, 2011, 03:05:41 AM I hate to say it but once again are people trusting their money with a service that came out of the blue three days ago? when will people ever learn. I'm not saying you are up to no good running this but there has been way too much fraud already. if people are trading money through someone who is 17 I see serious concerns. do you even have an llc or corporation setup? does anyone know your name and can verify your identity? I just can't grasp it. If you want to identify all these, you can easily find out. But unfortunately you didn't want to do so. Bitcoinica was under xWaylab Inc. My name is Zhou Tong. I have submitted my passport and bank statement to Mt. Gox and waiting for their approval.You can search topics about Bitcoinica on this forum. I have posted a lot of background information here and there. If you really want to know, you can easily find out. We don't want to show testimonials. But established forum members have also shared their recommendation. Lastly, every project has its start. If no people are trusting ANY new service because of fraud, there won't be any new service around. I greatly appreciate everyone's trust, and I show my appreciation by developing the best product and providing the best service. Oh... Mega LOL. MtGox broke its own terms. What will the DEA think?  Here's my problem. Why would I or anybody else, for that matter, deal with an entity that doesn't even abide by its own TOS? I also have proof that Zhou Tong was registered at Mt Gox prior to the formation of Bitcoinia--when he was only 16 years old. Anybody care to see that proof? ~Bruno~ When I registered at Mt. Gox, they didn't have that TOS. When the TOS came out, all Bitcoinica's assets had already been transferred to a new account owned by a corporation which has no relation with me. I still operate a personal Mt. Gox account with minimal funds. Mt. Gox is welcome to freeze it until August 24, 2012. |
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Same as always.
You've never sent an email to us. How do I know who are you? Your forum account could be hacked. Please send the same BTC address to verify@bitcoinica.com using your email registered with Bitcoinica. Thanks! |
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 I do worry sir. I need my money NOW. Send me BTC instead please. Maria. How many BTC do you need? I will subtract from your long position since you have one currently. You can give me your Bitcoin Wallet address or I can send you a Mt. Gox code via email. So that it's fair to us. This is proof that My account with bitcoinica is active since the beginning. What's your username and email? |
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refunding so please Roberto, you have my full support.
Last, your unsecured claims process gives me a bad feeling of distrust. Consider my claim here public. Where is my money?
Who is Roberto ? I thought Maria and Leo from coinexchanger were scammers but seems I am wrong Nah... How can maria be a scammer? "She" had 6k BTC and 50k USD in Bitcoinica  Chump change, compared with the 200k USD I had on there. Consider my claim made here in this public forum. I also find the claim form insecure(that SSL warning freaks me out) and I trust this MtGox hosted forum more than Bitcoinica LOL. Please send an email or submit your claim. No claims on forums will be accepted. |
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I know as much as Zhoutong really.
That's pretty disturbing. While zhoutang not being privy to everything that is going on behind the scenes is understandable, it's hard to think of any positive reasons why you would be excluded from the loop. Who the hell does know what is happening and when are they going to announce how user funds will be returned? This appalling lack of communication isn't just damaging the image of Bitcoinica - it's raising serious doubts about the competence of "The Intersango Guys" in general and tarnishing the reputations of their other business ventures. @repentance: you seem to be pretty versed in court matters. PLEASE contact us by PM. Perhaps you can help us build our legal framework. @Maria: I will be happy to work with you, and any other investor been owned a substantial amount. We will go after the legal structures, and the individuals involved. I think it is time to bring some sort of accountability to the bitcoin world. It is not even about the money at this point, and those familiar with our company know we have the deep pockets and the infrastructure to make it happen. I have already received 8 private messages from people interested in joining forces with us. Many of these are very well known Bitcoin players and companies. I will be having a series of meetings with the board this and next week to start putting the gears in motion. Just a heads up, you should probably verify each account owner's integrity before you take any actions. Maria didn't even submit a claim. Working with people like that will only delay your legal process. Do you have a database backup to "backup" your statement? In other words, can you deny that youramoron@gmail.com had an account with bitcoinica? Yes. We have three different backups, all with a complete list of all users with balance and position. |
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I know as much as Zhoutong really.
That's pretty disturbing. While zhoutang not being privy to everything that is going on behind the scenes is understandable, it's hard to think of any positive reasons why you would be excluded from the loop. Who the hell does know what is happening and when are they going to announce how user funds will be returned? This appalling lack of communication isn't just damaging the image of Bitcoinica - it's raising serious doubts about the competence of "The Intersango Guys" in general and tarnishing the reputations of their other business ventures. @repentance: you seem to be pretty versed in court matters. PLEASE contact us by PM. Perhaps you can help us build our legal framework. @Maria: I will be happy to work with you, and any other investor been owned a substantial amount. We will go after the legal structures, and the individuals involved. I think it is time to bring some sort of accountability to the bitcoin world. It is not even about the money at this point, and those familiar with our company know we have the deep pockets and the infrastructure to make it happen. I have already received 8 private messages from people interested in joining forces with us. Many of these are very well known Bitcoin players and companies. I will be having a series of meetings with the board this and next week to start putting the gears in motion. Just a heads up, you should probably verify each account owner's integrity before you take any actions. Maria didn't even submit a claim. Working with people like that will only delay your legal process. I have not submitted a claim because I had faith you was going to work out the problem and restart the service. I really need a service like bitcoinica because my trading robot performs best on Zhoutongs bitcoinica. If you come back online say today or tomorrow, then you can leave my money in there, but it seems like you guys have no intention of either coming back online or refunding so please Roberto, you have my full support. Last, your unsecured claims process gives me a bad feeling of distrust. Consider my claim here public. Where is my money? Please send your username, password, passport scan and email proof to verify@bitcoinica.com. We will verify accordingly. If you can make it public you should have no problems filling a form or sending an email. |
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