Maybe they won't be reconnected. Instead, we will effectively have two currencies. This will lead to the creation of an Eastern-Western bitcoin currency exchange market(s).
For that to happen, someone should a) notice what's happened b) understand what's happened c) make a decision on technically isolating two economies for ever d) force that decision somehow. Question: who can be that entity, whitepaper says there is not any central authority, at all ? kiba what you say, that's impossible or whitepaper lies? It does not require an entity to know what happen if the design of the bitcoin network didn't anticipated this kind of event. If it does happen anyway, than it may or may not be intended to deal with it. |
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3. The Bitcoin payment system heavily depends on the majority of the nodes to be "fair"
and play by the rules. This is by design, not an implementation specifics. Somehow we just
hope, that majority will just be fair. There is not any protection from nor detection of the otherwise case.
How else it is going to work, throughput? |
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For Bitcoins to really succeed as something actually used, stuff like the Heron store needs to be marginalized at best. I don't mind the anonymous transactions being involved here, but the emphasis ought to be put on freedom and legitimate otherwise legal transactions. I would like to work to get Bitcoins eventually recognized by an organization like Wal-Mart. I don't think you could stop the anarchists if you tried, so I wouldn't spend engineering development effort to kick that kind of thing off the network, but it shouldn't be a dominant feature. I would think that even those groups who want to engage in to more subversive acts wouldn't mind their traffic being drowned out by "legitimate" transactions.
As has been suggested by earlier posts, Wal-Mart isn't really an early adopter, so perhaps it would be better to go more for some companies that are more "hip" and into a network culture. The trick is to try and identify what companies might be willing to go that route.
When you say "Heron", I'm going to assume that you are referencing the "heroin" thought experiment that someone was using in another thread. Kind of a significant spelling error, although I would totally buy into a service that delivered Great Blue Herons through the mail.  I'm having a hard time understanding the rest of your post, but I feel like you're complaining that the "anarchists" will ruin things and you want to try to remove anonymity from the network, is that accurate? As far as the "anarchists"(lets not get into your use of a straw man here) go, you may as well complain that they are bad for all of the freedoms that we enjoy. I think that there's a productive critique in your post about ubiquity of BTC, but it's hidden by the complaints about what the bitcoin network is capable of. I don't think he don't like black market anarchists, just black market anarchists who practicpated in drugs and prositutions traditionally handled by criminals. He probably wants agorist to offer services that doesn't scream "EVIL CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE". Though you could buy marijuana, legally in California and other states. |
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Why does the government hates internet gambling?  |
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I hate to say this, but I think davidonpda is completely correct. This is the one business that does seem to take technology seriously and is an early adopter for new ideas and concepts.
Take this as a business idea if you want, but charging 0.01 BTC per image download, 0.10 BTC per movie, and 0.05 BTC per audio clip sounds like something that could catch on real well.
You hate to say this? You don't like porn or something? |
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Now after several years existing independently, what happens when the two networks are reconnected?
Maybe they won't be reconnected. Instead, we will effectively have two currencies. This will lead to the creation of an Eastern-Western bitcoin currency exchange market(s). |
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I feel very unlucky. My system has been cranking out 2600 khash/sec for more than 16 days so far, and still not a single block generated. I am not going to buy a lottery ticket any time soon.  I was very lucky to find a block within a few days of running bitcoin. |
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True and might work even better than having a variable money supply (because there is no tricky voting involved), but I do wonder if they would reach the same level of trust?! (I mean, people trust dollars more than, say, rupees.)
What is this tricky voting that you speak of? |
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I'm not an American, and thus the IRS system is deeply different where I live, but still I really think that kiba put it right: toy money. You could trade monopoly money for groceries, if the owner of the grocery store would feel so inclined, and for low volumes it's just a 'loss' he incurs, much like giving away eggs or bread.
But when your business takes a loss, the loss, according to the IRS, isn't just yours, it's everyones (if you believe in the IRS and its credibility on using collected money is a different discussion), Basically, you don't pay taxes for (some part of) your earnings because you've offset the positive income with the sale of things you had bought (and thus spent money on) for, well, nothing of value.
If the practice of turning goods bought with "real" money for "toy" money becomes something of volume, you don't only skip paying taxes for the goods you sold for BTCs (which is ok, I guess) but you also further lower the IRS slice by reporting on the spendings for material you bought and then magically disappeared without rendering profit.
You can sell products in exchange for services, but in this is inherently different as these services you would pay for if you didn't get them in exchange for goods, making the delta of the operation the same (in theory).
This whole discussion of multiple hard linked currencies seems to me to have some technical merit, in terms of the resilience and redundancy of the system, but not so much in the economical side. It's just like when the Euro was introduced, and all local currencies were hard linked to it. Basically the local transactions were still in the local currency, but it was no longer a "real" currency, it was just a token of "worth x Eur" which you could trade both ways knowing that the value would always be the same.
I think you're writing in the wrong thread. Anyway, this "toy money" is only a fantasy of IRS. As long as their map of reality is wrong, the bitcoin economy can continue to grow and thrive unmolested. They must not believe what we believe. |
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25 bitcoins for a dollar, is well below the market value at both exchanges, almost a 75% discount.
If it is not cheaper than what being sold on the exchange, why buy bitcoins from him at all? The only question: Where would he come up with all the bitcoins supply? |
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What is with this paranoia? He doesn't need to worry about getting in trouble for mailing a bunch of Gameboy games. The government does not try to correlate every package with a payment.
I don't believe Kiba suggested he was going to avoid taxes.
My apologies. I jumped to a conclusion. Maybe Kiba doesn't mind paying taxes (I guess he could use the market rate for bitcoins for calculating his tax liability). Or maybe Kiba wants to sell the games illegally and hope that the government won't care or notice. I should have started a separate thread to discuss my concern, since it is off topic from Kiba's question. Sorry. I just assumed people using BitCoin for trade would naturally be agorists/ market-anarchists/ crypto-anarchists do to its properties of psuedonymity, security, lack of central authority, limited inflation, etc. I am an anarchist too, but I don't think the IRS is going to hunt me for selling game boy colors thingy for "toy" money.  |
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Mtgox should substract whatever you're selling from your account so you don't sell what you don't have.
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I don't like people with a heroin store bringing heat on bitcoin users. Leave the heroin store to the criminals(for now), and focus on selling goods and services that's less harmful to its users and will easily pass right through policemen and politicians.
What is something you do not cyberpunk! Shadow economy - the foundation of stability Build the shadow economy on something else other than police attracting goods and services. They're not going to attack shadow lawn mowing services, at least not at first. |
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As far as I know, Bitcoins is the first monetary system backed by such a commodity. How "the public" will react to that concept remains to be seen.
Whatever bitcoins is backed up with does not matter. Even gold is backed up by nothing. What matters is that 1) bitcoins are scarce and 2) People can't just dilly willy print whatever money they want. |
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from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin"This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference. 10:42, 30 July 2010 Polargeo (talk | contribs) deleted "Bitcoin" (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bitcoin)" Boohoo. They don't like us. Big deal. |
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Yep, I heard this argumentation already. Here, on the forum  Just explain me why anybody would buy something to produce something to get profit (a typical business scenario) if he can just keep the money in BCs and get the same or higher profit out of deflation? Than the economy will shrink until it become profitable to produce again. |
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The wise behavior in deflation stage is to hoard as much as you can. But it kills the economy.
Economic deflation mean that people are creating so much goods, that it effectively outstrip the demand. The price of computers has been deflating for a while, but it means bigger markets over time. People don't buy computers every year, but it become more attractive to do so every year. Hoarding will means that you keep hoarding until you see an attractive price and buy. Effectively, hoarding is determined by your time preference. If you hoard more, you could get more at a later date, but then you won't buy anything to satisfy your needs, for now. An extreme economic deflation will only mean our time preference will stretch, but it does not mean that our time preference can be stretch to infinity. We need food and we will buy food. |
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I don't like people with a heroin store bringing heat on bitcoin users. Leave the heroin store to the criminals(for now), and focus on selling goods and services that's less harmful to its users and will easily pass right through policemen and politicians.
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I was implying that the two systems are linked with a built in fixed exchange.
I am not sure if you can have a fixed exchange system. If the demand is sufficiently different, than this warrant a floating market exchange rate. |
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Bit coin allows us to track all transactions for a particular "coin" type.
Now imagine a second "coin type" with its own set of nodes only this coin type is "convertible" to and from actual BTC with a special transaction among the two trees. Now you have two parallel sets of coins that have the same value, but require an extra transaction to port from one chain to another. You cannot mix and match coins of different types in the same transaction, but you can at any time convert from one coin type to another.
The difference between the two coin supply and demands entails another market exchange currency, which is an another playground for me. |
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