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1061  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Im thinking of change from Deepbit, recommendations? on: May 28, 2011, 09:23:44 PM
There's no way on btcmine, to see how much i generated on last 24 hours??
Not that I've found. The closest I can get is the "latest 25 blocks" page, but that doesn't show how much you got from each block. Once you're paid you can see payments, so you can see how much you're getting paid per 24 hours (or per payment), but it's not the same.
1062  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Im thinking of change from Deepbit, recommendations? on: May 28, 2011, 09:16:21 PM
I think gonna try BTCMine, is that good then?
To be honest, I think all pools are much the same - what you're looking for (and what I can't really help with...) is knowing that the pool operator will respond quickly to problems. Slush seems to; dbitcoin (the btcmine op) may well - but I've never noticed any issues with btcmine so I can't really comment! (Maybe that's a selling point!)

Btcmine has an API, if that would help - I've not used it, but I'd imagine it's the much the same as Slush's. The website seems fairly basic, compared to Slush, but I've noticed it developing over time so dbitcoin is clearly working on improving it. It doesn't have graphs, but that doesn't me too much - it may be an issue for you, though.
1063  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Im thinking of change from Deepbit, recommendations? on: May 28, 2011, 09:00:01 PM
Hi.

Sice deepbit is SO big, i dont like at much as before, so im thinking to change to another MINING server.

What server you think is better? Why?

I have 275MH/s, i have to use proportional or pay-per-share??

Im listening

Thanks
There's a neat pie-chart at bitcoinwatch.com that gives a good idea of sizes. For what it's worth, I've used Slush's pool and btcmine most of all: both are medium-sized, and I've had no real trouble with either. Slush's pool had an issue recently, which caused many people to drop out and that caused the pool size to go from massive to medium - and deepbit to go from medium to scarily big! That's the only real issue I've ever seen with Slush's pool - any other issue has been with the website, rather than mining. Btcmine I'm using right now, and have used on and off for a while - never had any issues with it. It lacks some of the fancy GUI stuff (graphs, etc) that Slush has, but I can live with that. The fee is voluntary, as well - you can select anything from 0% to 5%, IIRC.

There are a couple of new, smaller, pools that have started recently - I'm conservative, and haven't tried either yet, but they might be worth checking out.

I can't really answer for proportional or pay-per-share - I've never really used pay-per-share - it tends to be more expensive in terms of fees.
1064  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [~1500 Gh/s Mining Pool] SSL, API, instant payouts,LP,+1% for NO INVALID BLOCKS on: May 28, 2011, 07:20:43 PM
I leave! I will give the BTC
This increase of difficulty on 80 % has made for me unprofitable to continue.
It is ready to give the last 3.85 BTC to the one who will send me 0.1 BTC (I will send on the same address)
1P9q1WhXLs3iKy1aHiCqGcnf7dfJo46oXg
This is the "lastminer" scammer, back to its old tricks. Ignore it, and whatever you do - don't send it any BTC!
1065  Other / Obsolete (selling) / Re: [AUCTION] 5870 and 5970 on: May 28, 2011, 07:17:40 PM
Ughhh... an entire week, plus the next week for shipping.... Would you accept a buy it now price?  ;-)  PM/e-mail me.

-EP
If it helps, I'm happy to bow out.  It probably (well, definitely...!) makes more sense for me to try and source GPUs nearer to me. Garrett's price was very reasonable, I thought, but the delivery costs to the UK mean I can't really go any higher than my bid.
1066  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Nigerian Scam writing competition [1 BTC] on: May 27, 2011, 07:24:21 PM
Arrived safely, and in receipt of full 100,000 BTC, but laptop confiscated at customs and I am aware that email and other comms channels are being monitored. Without the laptop I no longer have my wallet or your bitcoin address. Send me 0.1 BTC at [MyBitcoin or MtGox bitcoin address here] to confirm the address and I'll send the 100,000 BTC to the address the transaction originated from. Be quick: I need to exit the country ASAP.

Don't use any names, make it look like an email sent to the wrong address by a really inept spy or dodgy courier. Spam it far and wide in as short a time frame as possible. Hopefully enough people will think "OK, so it's clearly not intended for me, but hey! If I reply I get 100,000 BTC!"

I'm not a professional scammer (well, I would say that, wouldn't I!) so I may have made some glaring error that would prevent this working. Hopefully.
1067  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Should I invest in a mining rig? on: May 27, 2011, 06:52:05 PM
...
See that is what I was looking for...Some data on what Mhash/s I could get out of various cards...And I couldn't find any place,with a list of cards and their respective perfomance...
...
There's a list on the wiki. There have been some complaints about its up-to-dateness recently, I think, but it should be a good starting point.
1068  Economy / Economics / Re: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small on: May 27, 2011, 02:17:26 PM
No. You're the one coming up with wild theories. You need to back them up with hard data, not ask people who disagree with you to do your research for you. It's time for you to "put up or shut up". Let's see your data, the data you used to arrive at your hypothesis.

Gold words. Now I see your are honest person in your deep thinking. I will try to do that. So I will not speak abouth this theme for some days..
-----------------
You may consider another problem - mining pools.

There is no formal 'cryptographic-trust' relationship between miner and pool. So pool's admin can manipulate with profits, powers, etc. But, because the difficulty is skyrocketing, single person can not mine effectively. So, pool's admins become the aces of bitcoin society. Now we can see 3-4 large pools. Their aces may make a cartel deal.

You see, pool's admins becomes the global corporations, exactly what we want to avoid in bitcoin system. So bitcoin currency is centolized even now, in earlier stages. With current difficulty algorithm (& bitcoin communication protocol) there is no chance to de-centrolize bitcoin in such thinking.

Again, no. I'm not wasting my time considering things on your behalf. You have a theory? Then come up with data to support it, and bring it all here together. Otherwise you're just wasting our time. Your latest theory, by the way, is not exactly new. It's been debated ad nauseum elsewhere on this forum.

p.s. also, single miner may wait for *weeks* to generate a block. he can not see *continuous* (but small) profit grow, being single.
1069  Economy / Economics / Re: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small on: May 27, 2011, 01:41:40 PM
What bitcoinBull said. The supply of new bitcoins is relatively static - roughly 50 every ten minutes. Expecting exponential growth of bitcoin supply is just wrong. A "SEVERE MISTAKE!", even.

I speak about total volume of BTC being traded on all BTC exchanges world-wide, per day. Also you can study the number of different goods' kinds, being traded for BTC directly (just T-shirts & coffee caps & etc??).

But remember, computing BTC trade volume, or number of goods' kinds, sell for BTC, is not the goal itself. To estimate the number of miners & number of traders, as function of time is THE goal.

Of course, to estimate number of miners & traders is not trivial. Possible hints are given by number of exchanges being opened, per unit time. Or number of NEW kind of goods being selled *directly* for BTC, per unit time, weighted by their trade volumes in BTC.

MtGox being the largest exchange, may indicate the things quite accurately. So if I see average trade volume of BTC upon MtGox is not increasing exponentially (or ever increasing) for 1.6 months, it is good indicator of danger.

So, answer me:
- how many traders there are on all BTC exchanges world-wide, as graph/function of time?
- how many miners there are on all BTC pools (&singles) world-wide, as graph/function of time?
- how many goods (kinds of goods, volumes of goods) sell directly for BTC world-wide, as graph/function of time?

As soon as you compute these 3 functions/graphs, you see the confirmation, that current difficulty algorithm kills bitcoin society.

No. You're the one coming up with wild theories. You need to back them up with hard data, not ask people who disagree with you to do your research for you. It's time for you to "put up or shut up". Let's see your data, the data you used to arrive at your hypothesis.
1070  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Mining hardware comparison page has become messy. on: May 27, 2011, 12:43:38 PM
Well, why don't you moderate it?
Because I am on a deadline on a university project. If everyone that had a suggestion needed to actually fix it themselves, there would not be much suggestions around. I already stated this in my original post. I help were I can when I have the time, but my time is limited.
I'd read that as you didn't have time to implement your suggestion - not that you didn't have time to edit a wiki page. I suspect error did the same as me.
1071  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Beware of scammers! on: May 27, 2011, 12:02:24 PM
Hi, there is a scammer around by the name of Citiz3n, DO NOT TRADE WITH HIM!
He scammed me.
OK, Citiz3n, thanks for the heads-up! Appreciated!
1072  Economy / Economics / Re: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small on: May 27, 2011, 11:52:11 AM
Look at the volume in dollars, not Bitcoins.

SEVERE MISTAKE! You introduce the NEW THING, LOOK at the volume of NEW THING.
The volume of NEW THING MUST be great, for NEW THING to be THE CURRENCY.

And remember, number of traders depending on time is MORE important even than volume of NEW THING itself.
What if 10 000 traders sell/buy BTC each other, and volume of this process is 99% of total BTC volume.
And 100 000 newbies sell/buy BTC, in 1% volume. This is TYPICAL DANGER situation.



Volume in dollars.

The growth occurs in volume of dollars, not volume of bitcoin.  The volume of bitcoin can only grow linearly.  So the volume of dollars is what grows exponentially.
What bitcoinBull said. The supply of new bitcoins is relatively static - roughly 50 every ten minutes. Expecting exponential growth of bitcoin supply is just wrong. A "SEVERE MISTAKE!", even.

Incidentally, afterburner229, could you knock it off with the ALL-CAPS? You can use *stars* for emphasis, or use the formatting tools or format your text manually, like this:
Code:
[b]This is bold[/b]
-> This is bold
Code:
[i]This is italicised[/i]
-> This is italicised
Better yet, allow the quality of your arguments to persuade, rather than the CAPITALS or formatting.
1073  Economy / Economics / Re: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small on: May 27, 2011, 11:44:24 AM
Right now, it is too difficult for new guys to get some bitcoins (either by trade or by mining).
I think this is more of an education issue than a practical issue. Mining is easy enough, and there are plenty of people right here who will help new miners get started. More importantly, perhaps, buying and selling bitcoins is easy - but people get hung up on MtGox. bitcoin-otc and Ubitex are both relatively straightforward (I've used bitcoin-otc, haven't used Ubitex so I may be wrong here...) and the exchange I use the most these days, britcoin, is very easy to use - no Liberty Reserve, Dwolla or anything else, I simply use my existing bank account. I appreciate not every country/currency has a britcoin, but everyone, anywhere, can use bitcoin-otc. If you live in a country with a lot of people you're bound to find someone wanting to trade sooner or later.
1074  Economy / Economics / Re: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small on: May 26, 2011, 11:04:36 PM
I'm having great difficulty understanding you, but if I understand you correctly you're suggesting that the number of miners and traders is static, and that network hashrate is increasing only because miners are trading in their CPUs for GPUs, and then buying more and more GPUs. Is that correct?

Very very roughly, this is correct. Sure you can say 'I know many people who had started to mine or to trade in last few months'.
No, I would say that I simply don't believe it's possible for the network growth to have come from "upgrades". When I started mining - in October 2010 - everyone used their CPU. GPU mining was just beginning to be discussed - it was semi-mythical. Check the forum posts from around that time, there was an idea GPU mining was do-able but if anyone was doing it they were in a tiny minority. Now consider everyone online at that time trading in their CPU miner for, lets say, 4 5970s. Let's take a conservative estimate for CPU mining, say 1 Mhash/s. 4 x 5970 would give us 2800 Mhash/s. So, if the number of miners stayed constant we'd see network hashrate increase 2800 times. Now look at the graph. Now consider that many miners simply haven't got 4 x 5970s. I haven't. I have 1 x 5870. You can see many posts here from people with 5850s etc. Some people may even still be using CPU miners.

Focus on the exact things what I say:
1. THE EXPONENTIAL GROW in NUMBER OF MEMBERS (in time scale) IS REQUIRED FOR ANY SOCIETY TO SURVIVE IN THE EARLIER STAGES OF IT's DEVELOPING.
OK...

2. 10 000 MINERS & TRADERS SPREAD WORLD-WIDE IS NOT THE SOCIETY FOR THE CURRENCY.
Possibly not, but I have no idea how you've arrived at this 10,000 figure. I could probably roughly determine the number of miners online, but I can't think of any way to count the number of traders.

3. CURRENT DIFFICULTY ALGORITHM DOES NOT ALLOW FOR NUMBER OF MEMBERS TO GROW EXPONENTIALLY.
Why not? Difficulty has been growing exponentially since I started mining, and I'm pretty certain that that hasn't been solely due to miners trading in CPUs for multi-GPU set-ups. Just from the number of posters on this forum I can see that new miners are starting constantly. Just a few weeks ago posters here were arguing that "now" (i.e. a few weeks ago) was the ideal time to invets in mining hardware, and profits were all but guaranteed (I was arguing that they should exercise caution).

4. WE OBSERVE substituted data (network power = exp ( exp (t)), average mtgox trade volume = const (t~1.6months)), that freezing process has been already started.
MtGox is not the only exchange. I used to use MtGox a lot; I haven't used it nearly as much recently because (a) I now have a local exchange which is far more convenient, and (b) even prior to that I'd started using bitcoin-otc because it was more convenient for me to work in my local currency. (Incidentally, can someone point me to the raw data that supports this constant trade volume claim? Thanks!)

5. In this DANGER situation we MUST RESEARCH the function = number of real (living) people in bitcoin society (t) more accurately.
Agreed. I think your 10,000 figure is a wild guess, and I dispute your theory that it is roughly static.

6. According that research results, We should be ready to change DIFFICULTY ALGORITHM.
Maybe. If the research backs up your theories then we could start thinking about solutions at that point.
1075  Economy / Economics / Re: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small on: May 26, 2011, 10:24:54 PM
This graph should give you a clearer idea as to what the current network hashrate really is. 19 blocks might be enough for you or me, but bitcoinwatch always loses the plot after a difficulty change. This is well documented here on this forum - every time the difficulty changes someone posts to ask why the network hashrate has apparently skyrocketed, and someone patiently explains that this is what always happens, and in a few blocks time the difficulty estimate will settle down.

I see you CAN hypnotize newbies, cunning fox. LOL))

Let us reject difficulty from the view completely. Watch the another graph from the same site:

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png

This graph has EXPONENTIAL axis 0Y, so exponetial growing function itself will be LINEAR on this graph.
We see the power of bitcoin network, in GHash/s is:
1. nearly linear slice @ time period Oct 2010 - Dec 2010
2. EXPONENTIAL slice @ period Dec 2010 - Mar 2011
3. second EXPONENTIAL slice @ period Mar 2011 - Jun 2011

I.e. what we see since roughly April, 20, 2011 - EXPONENTIAL GROW IN EXPONETIAL AXIS!
What is it?!
GHash/s (t) = EXP ( EXP (t))
?!

Hint: One person has Core i7 computer with integrated GPU and 7 MHash/s, then he observes, difficulty is skyrocketing, and he buys ATI 5870x2 or 5970 GPU, and his hash rate skyrockets from 7 up to 700MHash/s. His mining power increases in 100 times in ONE day, but he stay the same ONE mining person.

==================

Let's research another function - number of people (miners & traders) being attracted into bitcoin society - as function of time.
Current difficulty algorithm can not allow the number of people attracted to grow exponentially, but this is required for survival on earlier stages of society developing. 10000 members spread world-wide is not the society for the currency. and I proof, they frozen without growing.
I'm having great difficulty understanding you, but if I understand you correctly you're suggesting that the number of miners and traders is static, and that network hashrate is increasing only because miners are trading in their CPUs for GPUs, and then buying more and more GPUs. Is that correct?
1076  Economy / Economics / Re: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small on: May 26, 2011, 09:36:33 PM
The calculation on BitcoinCharts is inaccurate soon after a difficulty increase. That's because the hash rate and estimated difficulty are calculated based on the rate of block generation since the last increase. Since only 19 blocks have been found at the new difficulty, the sample size is very small and leads to an inaccurate calculation.

LOL)) I studied mathematical statictics in Moscow State University. Of course,
"Since only 19 blocks have been found at the new difficulty, the sample size is very small and leads to an inaccurate calculation"

But DID you compute EXACT numbers, some like 'std. deviation' (note, std. deviation itself can not be applied in this case),
HOW MUCH is calculation innacurate?
Huh LOL. LOL. LOL))

19 blocks from 2000 is sufficient for rough estimates in THIS extrapolation case. Since extrapolation unlike interpolation, is rough by it's mathematical nature. Also, in the all recent difficulty switches, difficulty was risen by almost exactly TWICE factor. It was confirmed AFTER each switch had been made.

1. See, next difficulty estimation (even based on 19 blocks from 2000) is also nearly TWICE the (new) current difficulty, as it was nearly TWICE in the all recent difficulty switches.

2. Also, observing trade volume levels on mtgox during 1.6 months is sufficient for rough estimes, that number of exchange's traders (living people) is ALREADY FROZEN for 1.6 months.

======================
We need to reject all thinking, but to focus upon NUMBER of living PEOPLE as function of TIME, being ATTRACTED to bitcoin SOCIETY.
This is THE ONLY parameter, that bitcoin survival depends on.

This graph should give you a clearer idea as to what the current network hashrate really is. 19 blocks might be enough for you or me, but bitcoinwatch always loses the plot after a difficulty change. This is well documented here on this forum - every time the difficulty changes someone posts to ask why the network hashrate has apparently skyrocketed, and someone patiently explains that this is what always happens, and in a few blocks time the difficulty estimate will settle down.

1077  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [RFC] Our next denomination: UBC on: May 26, 2011, 09:16:18 PM
I'm just thinking that two currency codes for different denominations is odd. And no one is going to make one code 'official' anyway.

Odd perhaps, but not unprecedented. See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_z%C5%82oty

Quote
As a result of inflation in the early 1990s, the currency underwent redenomination. Thus, on 1 January 1995, 10,000 old złotych (PLZ) became one new złoty (PLN).

That's not two currency codes simultaneously, though - that's one code replacing another as one currency (old złotych) was replaced by another (new złotych), like Deutsch Marks replacing Reich Marks, which in turn replaced old Marks.

The only example I can find is actually the US Dollar: USD, USS, and USN.
1078  Economy / Economics / Re: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small on: May 24, 2011, 09:48:07 PM
To spare me having to wade through this entire thread (I've been reading it piecemeal since it started, so I've probably missed a lot of it) could someone explain this "10,000 frozen" idea?

I recommend you read pedantically the whole thread. I hope still, I am wrong for a miracle, and bitcoin society will survive.

Don't worry about time spent in reading: just observe how difficulty increases in time @
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

I'm familiar with how difficulty has increased over time, thanks (I generated my first block on a 4-core CPU over 5 days, when difficulty was something like 8000). I'm looking for a quick summary explaining where this "10,000 frozen" concept comes from: if the price of that knowledge is having to read the entire thread then I'll pass.
1079  Economy / Economics / Re: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small on: May 24, 2011, 09:34:57 PM
DIFFICULTY ALGORITHM IS BLACK HOLE.

May be, even with current exponent BUT with another coefficient, bitcoin were survive, if some 1 000 000 miners & acceptors could enter the game field.

Sad, if bitcoin society will decay @ 10 000 frozen adopters, staying absolutely secure from cryptographic point of view,
 due to one incorrect coefficient in difficulty algorithm.

To spare me having to wade through this entire thread (I've been reading it piecemeal since it started, so I've probably missed a lot of it) could someone explain this "10,000 frozen" idea?
1080  Other / Obsolete (selling) / Re: [AUCTION] 5870 and 5970 on: May 24, 2011, 08:14:58 PM
To the EU? If I didn't get back to you, sorry about that!

Yeah, 60 USD or 9 btc to get to europe :/ Not very cheap, unfortunately. But now is your chance to come visit scenic Buffalo, NY for your summer holiday! I'm more than happy to offer will call Smiley
No worries! 9 BTC actually seems fairly reasonable - how about I kick off the bidding with 31 BTC (plus 9 BTC to ship to the UK, for a total of 40 BTC - other bidders would need to bid 32 BTC or higher, since they're not concerned with UK shipping costs).
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