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1921  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What if bitcoins were used in high-frequency trading? on: April 06, 2011, 08:21:28 PM
I don't currently see any benefit in having stocks in a bitcoin like system. It's probably better to just have companies subcontract out their shareholder registry management to a company specialized in doing that sort of thing (exactly how they do now infact). Ultimately the investors are required to trust the company they invest in - if they don't there are a million ways things will go wrong and having the shareholder registry in a block chain won't stop that. With bitcoin as a currency there is now no single point of failure, with company stocks there is always a singe point of failure - the company. Having the company manage it's shareholder registry (or more likely subcontract it out to a register management firm) doesn't make any difference. If people want to invest in totally black companies that aren't registered with any government the same thing applies - the black company can still manage the shareholder registry with no additional risk. You're just trusting the management.. but you have no other option.

Quite the opposite.

Satoshi's key invention is that bitcoin is really a distributed notary service.

Securely transferring stock from person A to person B is a perfect application for this invention.

As is securely transferring a DNS domain, or another digital entity.

1922  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What if bitcoins were used in high-frequency trading? on: April 06, 2011, 08:19:06 PM
do you want to see how is the future of bitcoin + regulations ?
see paypal ... no thanks

PayPal is a layer on top of bitcoin.

Bitcoin will be a success when PayPal-BTC currency is offered alongside PayPal-USD and PayPal-EUR.

1923  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What if bitcoins were used in high-frequency trading? on: April 06, 2011, 08:18:04 PM
+1 to macrohard on all counts.

Except for his appalling inability to quote properly...

1924  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What if bitcoins were used in high-frequency trading? on: April 06, 2011, 07:48:09 PM
Idea #1: Suppose a company can issue its own version of the bitcoin concept as "stocks" (bitstock?).  I know this has been talked about on other threads as well.  What would be the implications of high-frequency trading on the infrastructure borrowed from bitcoin?  For example, we trade thousands of stocks at a rate of thousands of messages per second (i.e. not all messages result in trades).  We deal in terabytes of data per day.  Is it even reasonable to consider a proof-of-work blockchain in this context? How would this disrupt the trust mechanism for resolving conflicting claims (e.g. could I send some "bitstock" shares to one person, but then change my mind an instant later by sending the same bitstock to another recipient, and then trying to convince the rest of the network that the second transaction was the valid one)?

Yes, a highly interconnected, high bandwidth network -- such as those already used by HFT'ers -- could support a proof-of-work chain at such rates.  You're looking at about 600,000 - 1,000,000 transactions per 10-minute block, I'd say.

The main hurdles will be efficient TX broadcasting, and trying not to be CPU-bound doing ECDSA signature verification.

Also, the proof-of-work algorithm would need to not regenerate its mining block on every TX, but upon every $N TX's.

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Idea #2: What if bitcoins could be used as an internal tip system to help associates track performance? When one associate wants to thank another one anonymously, the first could drop bitcoins in the second's tip jar. At the end of the bonus period, tips are amplified by actual group performance and bonuses paid out. Since there are no transaction costs, everyone wins and individual performance gets a little bit of measurement. Is there any reason we should consider a point-based system rather than use bitcoin?

If you're talking about using the main block chain, that would be fine, albeit it costs you money to allocate points.

If you're talking about a totally separate block chain, then you must consider how much you wish to investment in the "strength" of the block chain.  A tiny chain would be easily vulnerable to double-spend attacks, compared to the main chain, if some naughty HFT trader decides to plunk down $100,000 to game the system.

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Idea #3: What if our company could provide a "forex" marketplace for BTC/USD? This has certainly been done already (MtGox, etc.), however it seems there is still a lot of barrier to entry for many participants. How might a big player help? Would it hinder bitcoin's progress in any way?

I cannot see how this would cause problems.  It would greatly benefit bitcoin... go for it!

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Idea #4: Does bitcoin need a market maker in its exchange markets? Market makers usually help narrow the spread between the "bid price" and "ask price" by taking some of the risk in moments when there are no natural market participants (e.g. if you want to sell, but at this moment no one is willing to buy, you either have to lower your price to gain attention, or wait a while for more buyers to show up). My sense is that bitcoin is too young to need a market maker, and perhaps does not yet have enough volume to make the role worthwhile. What are your thoughts?

You are correct, there is very little volume in bitcoin's current exchange markets, as compared to any "real" market.  I guess bitcoin is roughly analagous to a super-thinly-traded penny stock, without a single market maker.

A player that narrows spreads would be a welcome addition, IMO, as long as the market maker(s) policies and actions are open and transparent.
1925  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? on: April 06, 2011, 03:08:20 PM
Any way to stop it trying to broadcast, to "cancel" a transaction that's not been processed/confirmed yet?

Not at present.  But I have an open proposal for people to expire TX's from the TX cache, which would permit this.

1926  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Running a private pool with poclbm miner? on: April 06, 2011, 05:05:47 AM
If you just wanted bitcoind or pool server hosting, there's this...

     http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3614.msg78994#msg78994

1927  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: [BOUNTY] sha256 shader for Linux OSS video drivers (300 BTC pledged) on: April 06, 2011, 12:23:32 AM
Bump.  Increased bounty to 400 BTC.

Here's a link showing several examples of asm shaders on ATI:
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati/tree/src/evergreen_shader.c

and here is some useful Mesa code for building asm shaders:
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/tree/src/mesa/drivers/dri/r600/r700_assembler.c
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/tree/src/mesa/drivers/dri/r600/r700_shader.c

1928  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: selling drugs and money laundering: the potential downfall of bitcoin on: April 05, 2011, 10:56:58 PM
Yes -- and a great many Internet forums make efforts to avoid discussion and encouragement of illegal activity.

Not to speak for Satoshi, but Bitcoin was created with the intention of undermining the State's hold on money. Is there any reason to believe the the State does a better job creating law than it does money?

The State is a collection of men, just like any other.  Anarchy doesn't work.

1929  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: selling drugs and money laundering: the potential downfall of bitcoin on: April 05, 2011, 10:31:35 PM
Blatantly illegal activity also goes on with cash, and on mobile phone networks, and on bittorrent.

Yes -- and a great many Internet forums make efforts to avoid discussion and encouragement of illegal activity.
1930  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Now is the time to BUY BUY BUY! on: April 05, 2011, 09:32:15 PM
BitcoinMarket v2 supports stop-loss orders.
1931  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [~70 Gh/s Mining Pool] INSTANT PAYOUT,+1-2% with LP! +1.2% for no failed blocks! on: April 05, 2011, 09:29:55 PM
It's very simple:  using Digest auth by default will reduce potential for problems, over existing practice of using Basic auth.  Is SSL better?  Yes.  Do potential problems exist even with Digest?  Yes.  But neither of those factors implies that Digest is useless, given current client implementations and practices.

Remember:  don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
1932  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [~70 Gh/s Mining Pool] INSTANT PAYOUT,+1-2% with LP! +1.2% for no failed blocks! on: April 05, 2011, 08:11:32 PM
Using encryption is better than not using encryption.  Thanks for that news flash.
1933  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [~70 Gh/s Mining Pool] INSTANT PAYOUT,+1-2% with LP! +1.2% for no failed blocks! on: April 05, 2011, 08:01:32 PM
...because not all users will or can use HTTPS, rendering most of those points moot.
1934  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [~70 Gh/s Mining Pool] INSTANT PAYOUT,+1-2% with LP! +1.2% for no failed blocks! on: April 05, 2011, 06:57:52 PM
Note that any risk of discovered passwords is mitigated by pools that have worker accounts (like slush's) and where users use random passwords, different from the main account password, for the worker accounts.

This standard was started by bitcoind, and is used outside of pools.  Furthermore, if I intercept a worker password, I can make an attack look like it's coming from another user, possibly getting them kicked off the pool server.

Such attack easily discovered by IP or if user usually use another miner.

That does not excuse sending cleartext passwords with every request.  Users have been known to do strange things, like re-use passwords.

Decades of security practice has demonstrated that cleartext passwords should never ever be used.

1935  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [~70 Gh/s Mining Pool] INSTANT PAYOUT,+1-2% with LP! +1.2% for no failed blocks! on: April 05, 2011, 06:11:42 PM
Related to HTTPS:  I am planning on adding support for HTTP Digest authentication, on top of current HTTP Basic auth.  While not perfect, and SSL is better, this will move community away from sending base64-encoded passwords (easily decoded) frequently over the 'net.
Note that any risk of discovered passwords is mitigated by pools that have worker accounts (like slush's) and where users use random passwords, different from the main account password, for the worker accounts.

This standard was started by bitcoind, and is used outside of pools.  Furthermore, if I intercept a worker password, I can make an attack look like it's coming from another user, possibly getting them kicked off the pool server.

1936  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [~70 Gh/s Mining Pool] INSTANT PAYOUT,+1-2% with LP! +1.2% for no failed blocks! on: April 05, 2011, 06:03:52 PM
Related to HTTPS:  I am planning on adding support for HTTP Digest authentication, on top of current HTTP Basic auth.  While not perfect, and SSL is better, this will move community away from sending base64-encoded passwords (easily decoded) frequently over the 'net.

1937  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: NEEDED URGENTLY: Professional Bitcoin Exchange and More Serious Project Work on: April 05, 2011, 06:01:24 PM
The source code to Bitcoin Central exchange is also open:

     https://github.com/davout/bitcoin-central

1938  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: BitcoinPool.com open thread on: April 05, 2011, 05:58:41 PM
I also tried using poclbm-mod for cpu
First off my hash rate on the cpu was 20% of what pudinpop's rpc miner were
my results also showed that after the first longpole block change  most block changes were missed
resulting in mostly invalid/stale shares being found

If you use my cpuminer or ufasoft's CPU miner, you will get far more performance on CPU.

poclbm and puddinpop were not built for CPU mining.  That is largely an afterthought, and it shows with lower performance.

1939  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: NEEDED URGENTLY: Professional Bitcoin Exchange and More Serious Project Work on: April 05, 2011, 09:54:00 AM
MtGox's and Britcoin's establishment of legal status should make it easier for bigger business to accept coins. Spesmilo or other lightweight clients could be promoted for newbies. Bitcoin as a browser plugin would be golden, even if for MyBitcoin accounts only.

WARNING -- spesmilo and other clients are not ready for prime time.  IMO, they should not be recommended at this time.  Other than mainline, no client can yet handle bitcoin details such as a block chain reorganization.

(besides the fact that the wiki and some of these clients are filled with specious things like Tonal, which will only serve to confuse the average user)

1940  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: New pure-python CPU miner, for fun and testing on: April 05, 2011, 07:56:40 AM
Updated the git repo with many bug fixes.  pyminer.py successfully generated a block on testnet, and a share in slush's pool.
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