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1161  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Decentralized mining protocol standard: getblocktemplate (ASIC ready!) on: October 20, 2012, 05:23:33 PM

1) In general, everybody should be running a full node, just to support the network.  It's not a requirement, obviously, but we need as many full nodes as possible to keep the network resistant to Sybil attacks and such.

2) p2pool is the preferred solution for the community, with centralized pools being second best.  Centralized pools make it much easier to be a miner, at the cost of centralizing network power in the hands of the pool operator.

1162  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Decentralized mining protocol standard: getblocktemplate on: October 20, 2012, 05:08:54 AM
So what are you anticipating the pools vs miners will be doing with transactions in pooled mining (ignoring p2pool)?

Transactions don't need to make it to the miners, just the pool server.  The pool server can handle most of the merkle building bits, and verify the returned work from the miner.

The miner runs through nonce.
If miner needs more work, it runs through ntime range.
If miner needs more work, it increments extranonce.

That will keep your ASIC miner mining through the next century ;p

1163  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Decentralized mining protocol standard: getblocktemplate on: October 20, 2012, 01:18:31 AM
The problem with not receiving the transactions is that the miner program must have a full bitcoin connection to the network.

No, that is not correct at all.

The pool server may supply sufficient information to modify extranonce in the coinbase txn, and update the merkle root.  Nothing more.

And even that's going over the absolute minimum requirement of simply a block header, with ntime rolling supported.

1164  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Decentralized mining protocol standard: getblocktemplate on: October 20, 2012, 12:17:16 AM
What a mess. With payloads increasing linearly with transaction count in GBT that makes each getwork equivalent much bigger than plain getwork already is the longer a block takes to solve. As bitcoin becomes more popular and transaction counts increase, gbt becomes less and less efficient. I'd hazard a guess that it may even be less efficient than plain getwork at some stage unless pools start ignoring transactions... there's a disincentive to include them.

Unless something has changed, getblocktemplate should include a mode that skips sending the transactions themselves.  See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0023

I agree it is unlikely that non-p2pool miners will use the full bore GBT + all transactions, even if it is better for network security.

But don't dismiss GBT based on faulty "full mode only" assumptions.

1165  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind version 0.7.1 released on: October 19, 2012, 03:45:48 PM
For people bringing up new 0.7.1 nodes, here is an unofficial torrent of bootstrap.dat:

     https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117982.0

(if you already have the blockchain, bootstrap.dat is of no use to you; see link)

1166  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: FinCEN says you must be MSB if you sell bitcoins for $ on: October 18, 2012, 07:54:31 PM
Are there different classes of MBS, all with their own additional requirements?  My understanding is that the business that the OP is proposing is somewhat different to that operated by BitInstant.  Are they likely to be subject to more regulations as they'll actually be selling BTC direct to the public rather than operating as a platform for others to trade BTC (like MtGox) or a conduit for getting funds into exchanges quickly (like BitInstant)?

A Money Services Business (MSB) is a specific definition.  There are other types of businesses (depository, securities, mortgage, insurance, ...) that may register with FinCEN.

You might be able to get away with only registered in a single US state, if you are largely a brick-and-mortar business rather than an online business.  e.g. a pawn shop exchanging bitcoins might only need to register as an MSB, plus one (1) state.

(again, IANAL, seek your own professional advice)

1167  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: FinCEN says you must be MSB if you sell bitcoins for $ on: October 18, 2012, 07:51:12 PM
Heh, and thats the easy part!

You also need to do the following, just off the top of my head:
- Quarterly audits that you pay for
- Every 6 weeks you need a verified and updated AML Program
- Attend BSA training twice a year
- Bend over backwards and get anally raped every day....

Oh, you also need at least two people, right?

IIRC, every MSB requires a compliance/risk officer, who is separate from the person(s) handling money day-to-day.

1168  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: FinCEN says you must be MSB if you sell bitcoins for $ on: October 18, 2012, 07:14:36 PM
I was looking at starting up a site that would sell bitcoins through credit card transactions as a US based business. Not wanting to run into immediate regulatory problems I gave FinCEN (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network) a call. It took them a couple of weeks to get back to me but the answer was yes that business would be required to register as a Money Service Business.

Yes, that is expected.  BitInstant is a registered MSB, AFAIK.  A couple other exchanges based in the US are registered, or in the process of registering.

According to my research (WARNING: not a lawyer, seek your own professional advice) online bitcoin exchanges in the US would need to register in ~47 of 50 states, as well as registering as an MSB with the federal government.  (or limit the users accessing the website to a select few states)

There is a multi-state surety bond and registration process, making multi-state compliance a bit easier, but it is definitely a lot of paperwork and background checks required.

1169  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Adi Shamir's paper on bitcoin on: October 18, 2012, 07:09:38 PM
Been following this paper and the press resulting from it with interest...

And yet, am I incorrect in thinking the central thrust of the study is incorrect for the simple fact that most change goes to new addresses which are, by definition, unspent? This means that at any time, most coins will sit in "unspent" accounts, thereby appearing as though they are savings, when in reality they are just sitting there until they are spent normally.

Am I missing something or is this an absurd fatal flaw in their reasoning?
I believe you are correct, but I don't think it matters much. They say 60% of coins haven't moved in 3 months; those can safely be considered some kind of savings. So the actual amount of savings would be somewhere between 60% and 78%.

FWIW, I contacted them saying this (trimming opening and closing words):

Nice letter!

I think the issue of change and the issue of shared coin pools (web wallets) impact their fundamental analysis.  The rest of the stuff they got wrong is laughable but probably statistically insignificant.

1170  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [BETA] Bitcoin blockchain torrent on: October 18, 2012, 03:03:22 PM
Quote
Sadly you do need to be a bit of a programmer to generate a bootstrap.dat file.
Of course

gabi rage: is it so hard to have a program that you just clic it, tell it where the bitcoin folder with the blockchain is and then you press EXTRACT and it create bootstrap.dat?

That's what we have here.  "a program" is called a bittorrent client.  Tell it where the bitcoin folder with the blockchain is, and then you press download.
1171  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Adi Shamir's paper on bitcoin on: October 18, 2012, 07:38:58 AM

As pointed out by Davout, the paper assumes shared wallets like mt gox are ONE owner of a lot of addresses. This logic is flawed.


Also - it seems a bit strange to count the 2Million+ sub 0.01 balance wallets as the poor end of some sort of wealth pyramid.
Many of these are surely people who just tried it out, e.g by getting some from a freebie site. They may or may not even have kept that wallet, let alone become engaged as an active Bitcoin user.

Some of those might be miners, collecting a lot of little bits of change.

1172  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Adi Shamir's paper on bitcoin on: October 17, 2012, 08:43:25 PM
But I wonder how they managed to determine the exact number of unique address owners:

Read the gist link (above).

Their paper includes assumptions about addresses that are obviously wrong:

Quote
A very important feature of the Bitcoin network is that a transaction involving multiple sending addresses can only be carried out by the common owner of all those addresses, as it is demanded by the Bitcoin system that "Whoever sent this transaction owns all of these addresses". This legal requirement is also technically ensured by the fact that each received amount must have a cryptographic digital signature that unlocks it from the prior transaction.

I would say that he is right for certain values of "all".  If you pick a transaction at random from the chain, the odds are overwhelmingly high that a single owner controlled all of the input.  Thus, he is "mostly right", and his conclusions are likely to be approximately correct.

Not really.  For shared wallet sites, the shared wallet site controlled all of the input, but wouldn't necessarily be the "owner" of those funds.

1173  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Adi Shamir's paper on bitcoin on: October 17, 2012, 03:59:56 PM
But I wonder how they managed to determine the exact number of unique address owners:

Read the gist link (above).

Their paper includes assumptions about addresses that are obviously wrong:

Quote
A very important feature of the Bitcoin network is that a transaction involving multiple sending addresses can only be carried out by the common owner of all those addresses, as it is demanded by the Bitcoin system that "Whoever sent this transaction owns all of these addresses". This legal requirement is also technically ensured by the fact that each received amount must have a cryptographic digital signature that unlocks it from the prior transaction.

1174  Bitcoin / Press / Re: NEW articles in Press Forum on: October 17, 2012, 03:12:32 PM
2012-10-17 78 percent of Bitcoin currency stashed under digital mattress, study finds
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118946.0
1175  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2012-10-17 78 percent of Bitcoin currency stashed under digital mattress, study on: October 17, 2012, 03:12:05 PM

This Ars article is simply covering the Ron/Shamir paper.

Here is the forum discussion of that [flawed] paper:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118797.0

1176  Bitcoin / Press / 2012-10-17 78 percent of Bitcoin currency stashed under digital mattress, study on: October 17, 2012, 03:11:14 PM

URL: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/10/78-percent-of-bitcoin-currency-stashed-under-digital-mattress-study-finds/

Quote
78 percent of Bitcoin currency stashed under digital mattress, study finds
Significantly fewer digital coins are in circulation than previously presumed.

by Dan Goodin - Oct 17 2012, 8:00am EDT

More than three-quarters of the digital coins in the Bitcoin digital currency scheme aren't circulating because they remain dormant in user accounts that have never participated in outgoing transactions, a recently published study has found.

The figure translates to more than 7.019 million BTCs, the term used to denote a single coin under the digital currency, which uses strong cryptography and peer-to-peer networking to enable anonymous payments among parties who don't necessarily know or trust each other. Based on exchange rates listed on Mt.Gox—the most widely used Bitcoin exchange—the coins have a value of more than $82.87 million. On May 13, the date the researchers analyzed their data, there were slightly more than 9 million BTCs in existence.

[...]
1177  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Adi Shamir's paper on bitcoin on: October 17, 2012, 01:46:48 PM

At least one of this paper's fundamental assumptions is flawed.

Posted this gist going into detail:

Peer review of "Quantitative Analysis of the Full Bitcoin Transaction Graph"
https://gist.github.com/3901921

Comments welcome.  If there is further criticism that may be added to the gist, speak up.

1178  Economy / Securities / Re: Bitcoin Options Contracts - Gauging Interest on: October 17, 2012, 01:06:36 PM
I don't know. Both look really sketch and shady.
And I assume the options contracts are priced by supply and demand.

Theres so many problems with that lol. Anyways, gonna leave this here for discussion next few days and see where it goes.

For the record, I use neither of them...  Just noting the reason why we need competition!  Smiley



Ah ok, yeah I carefully reviewed their stuff and if anyone invests money, lol consider it a donation.

I guess I can put up a website soon. But it seems I'm not really gathering any interest

It is difficult on the forums, as there are not too many people familiar with options on the forums, I think.  But there is definitely interest in general from the trading and hedge fund community, so I would think there is interest.  Enough interest to sustain a business employing a few people?  Unsure...

1179  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: colored bitcoins/distributed exchanges proof-of-concept on: October 17, 2012, 01:03:06 PM
All messages should be signed by the private key of associated bitcoin addresses and/or GPG.

Not sure if it's possible with the concrete public crypto algorithm that bitcoin uses. But messages could be encrypted with the destination public key to ensure he's the only one who can read it. If it's possible I think reusing bitcoin keypairs is the best option.

Bitcoin uses ECDSA for keypairs, and this is not an encryption scheme.  Just a digital signature scheme.

The bitcoin blockdata data and protocol do not use any encryption at all.  The bitcoin client uses AES for wallet encryption, but this is not required by the bitcoin protocol.

1180  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: colored bitcoins/distributed exchanges proof-of-concept on: October 17, 2012, 01:00:22 PM
I am not sure if this has been mentioned by someone else. To make the decentralized exchange works, we need a standard peer-to-peer protocol to broadcast all the required information: IPO invitations, definition of assets, ask/bid orders, and cancellation of such orders. It's just like how transactions and blocks broadcasting on the bitcoin network. All messages should be signed by the private key of associated bitcoin addresses and/or GPG. For example, IPO and asset definition should be signed by GPG of issuer, and ask/bid orders should be signed by addresses holding enough bitcoin or colored bitcoin for completing the trade.

The peer-to-peer client should be able to check the validity of ask/bid orders. It should also generate raw transaction based on colored coin trading rules, allow transmission of partially singed transaction among the trading parties, and broadcast the completed transaction to the bitcoin network. It should also work as a bot, which will automatically sign transactions based on user instruction.

That is why smartcoin (formerly pybond) includes client for a brand new P2P "financial network" and a DHT "financial hashmap"    See https://github.com/jgarzik/smartcoin
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