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681  Local / Новички / Re: Новичкам сюда! - FAQ on: January 24, 2014, 12:51:20 AM
Сколько нужно иметь некстов,чтобы иметь нормальный шанс подтвердить транзакцию чужую?
Думаю, тебе этот вопрос лучше вот здесь задать: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345882.0

Судя по всему, семизначную. По крайней мере на 50-100k не получалось ничего намайнить, без движения монетки лежали до двух суток, потом обычно что-нибудь по арбитражу и тп нарисовывалось)) Ждём пулы так что...
682  Local / Альтернативные криптовалюты / Re: Виртуальный^2 Рубль on: January 24, 2014, 12:48:17 AM
Судя по всему виртуальный рубль (миннет или как в итоге название будет)) будет поуспешнее настоящего) Ещё не вышел в свет, а уже покупатели есть)
683  Local / Альтернативные криптовалюты / Re: [CopperLark] возвращен on: January 24, 2014, 12:30:50 AM
LOL))) Неуловимый джо против неуловимого билла))) Рабыня изаура отдыхает
684  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 23, 2014, 11:56:18 PM
"...

It seems to me that the distribution of wealth in a bitcoin economy can be altered much more easily in comparison to a 100% PoS coin economy simply because of the fact that spent coins do not somehow reappear in the wallet of the spender just because he happens to own a lot of coins.

..."

From a discussion in my FB page (I quote the other guy).
What are your thoughts?


Here's my take on it klee, complete with example economies.

That guy has some good thoughts, but he doesn't consider the fact that with PoW, due to economies-of-scale, it will always be easier for the rich to secure an increasingly greater percentage of the profit from mining. For example, the average joe will have to spend top dollar to buy one miner, but someone (or government/corporation) who has a lot of money can either buy them en-mass and receive a huge discount, or manufacture them directly at an even larger discount. This means that the little guy's slice of the PoW pie will get increasingly smaller because it will always cost him more to maintain his hash rate, while the rich who are already making a much higher ROI will always be able to maintain their advantage at a discounted cost.

In PoS the ROI is the same regardless of how much money you have. As a simple example, suppose we have a PoS network of 100 people, and they all have their accounts open for forging 100% of the time. The richest person has 5% of the total wealth, the poorest person has 0.01% of the total wealth, and everyone else has something in between. For simplicity's sake, let's assume this is a closed system and no new wealth enters the economy. Let's also assume the the richest person decides to be a "parasite to society and offer NOTHING back", i.e. he just sits on his 5% and collects fees from forging. Now, the poorest person doesn't have this option, so he decides to be industrious and starts a business that provides him a moderate amount of income that allows him to earn more than his cost of living/doing business. After one year in this economy the poorest person will still have no less than 0.01% of the total wealth thanks to the interest he earned on forging, and will in fact have gained wealth thanks to his successful business. Let's say he now owns 0.02% of the total wealth. Now let's look at the richest person. After one year of doing nothing except collect transaction fees from forging, he still owns no more than 5% of the total wealth thanks to the way PoS forging works. However, he had living expenses, so we must subtract that from his total wealth. Let's say he was wise and didn't exceed the amount that he earned from forging; however, when you subtract his expenses from his forging profits, his net income for the year is obviously less than 5% of all profit earned from forging that year. Since everyone else was also forging 100% of the time, this means he now has LESS than 5% of the total wealth in the system. Suppose this continues unchanged for the next 10 years. Each year the richest person has a little bit less, and each year the poorest person has a little bit more. This is just a little scenario to illustrate that in PoS, while the rich may be able to sustain their lifestyle by doing nothing but forge, their wealth will decrease over time so long as everyone is forging. Forging is a trivial task, so there is no reason why everyone shouldn't be able to forge. Who is rewarded the most in a PoS system? The industrious, just like in every other healthy economy.

Now let's take a look at a simple PoW economy. Again, let's suppose this is a network of 100 people, the richest person has 5% of the wealth and the poorest person has 0.01% of the wealth, and no new wealth enters the system. Lets be optimistic and assume everyone is committed to mining, and they all set aside 10% of their wealth to pay for mining hardware and electricity costs. The poorest person can only afford one of the newest ASIC miners, and since he is only buying one, he pays the full retail price. The richest person realizes that he can save a lot of money by manufacturing his own ASIC miners, and he can even sell some to the other members. So he sets up a nice little ASIC farm of 1000 miners for himself which he was able to finance for much less than full retail, and he pockets the money the poorest person and many of the other members gave him to buy one of his miners. So, at the end of the year, the richest person owns a large percentage of the 10% everyone set aside to pay for their mining costs,  and he was also able finance and operate his miners much more cheaply, giving him a much higher ROI. So the richest person has earned much more than 5% of all mining profits for the year, and the poorest person has earned much less than 0.01% of all mining profits for the year. The poorest person is a pretty industrious guy though, so he has his own business which has enabled him to earn a small profit, and he's doing okay, and he might just be able to justify upgrading to one of the new model of ASICs that the richest person is releasing for next year. His neighbor is not so industrious though, and he is thinking he won't be able to afford a new mining rig next year. Obviously, the richest person in this example is also industrious, because he set up an ASIC manufacturing business, but this is an opportunity that is only afforded to the rich. Lets say his neighbor, who is not quite as rich, and not as industrious, simply bought 800 ASIC miners from him at a 40% discount rate from full retail, and then sat back and did nothing all year except to be a "parasite to society and offer NOTHING back". Well, he is still receiving a MUCH higher ROI than the poorest person who could only afford one miner at full retail.

So, your guy was right in saying "the distribution of wealth in a bitcoin economy can be altered much more easily in comparison to a 100% PoS coin economy". It can be altered much more easily in favor of the rich than a purely PoS economy.

I like PoS MUCH more then PoW without a doubt. Of course it's a good idea to buy ASICs and figurally "print money", but from the other hand, you are investing in hardware and power, doing nothing usefull. With PoS, you can use your investment in coins to generate an extra profit. I realy like this idea.

But, your example is "little" unfair. In first situation, rich guy is "parasite" just spending his money, but in second he is ASICs manufacturer, that is I believe is not the easiest business and I am sure that at least 99% of bitcoin holders would not be able to effectively control such enterprise. So you are compairing, let's say CryptoRockefeller's grandson spending millions on drugs, drinks and girls to a CryptoRockefeller himself)
685  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which Coin to be Added to cryptothrift.com? on: January 23, 2014, 11:13:23 PM
NXT please
686  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” on: January 22, 2014, 07:25:10 PM
You need to send the address 0.00012btc + fees more, you will then have enough to send.

0.00018 + miner fee

 Wink

So, I can't send such small ammount? What is the minimum then? I want to make sure that I will be able to send the coins, before will buy some real amount)
687  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” on: January 22, 2014, 07:21:20 PM
You need to send the address 0.00012btc + fees more, you will then have enough to send.

0.00018 + miner fee

QT wallet shows that I only got 0.00006 (I don't hold my bitcoins in this one), so I can't send 0.00018
688  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” on: January 22, 2014, 06:50:31 PM
Sorry for a probably stupid question)

I am trying to use MasterCoin, I've made a very small test purchase @ masterxchange.com, and now I got 0.05 MSC for try out how the transfers are going. The interesting thing is that when I did withdrawal to my address, Bitcoin QT shows that I just have 0.00006 XBT in my wallet, my MasterCoin blockchain shows that everything is OK: http://mastercoin-explorer.com/addresses/1A3G55ARtZnjty1c5YTcUU3b4dcvhvNCyS

Next I want to send it back to exchange, I ran MasterCoinAdvisor and tried to deposit 0.01 MSC first, Advisor is telling me to send 0.00006 XBT to 3 addresses in one transaction. I am trying to do it, but the problem is that my QT shows that I have only 0.00006 XBT, and I got "insufficient funds" message because of that.

So, what can I do? Thanks!
689  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] WWW.BUYPTS.COM :: Protoshares giveaway! on: January 22, 2014, 02:28:51 AM
Want to try how this works
ParZxwbDi1N8uCFuPkjEnBkkCgQuEYjXzV
Thanks!
690  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][Exchange] Bter.com Announcements [NextCoin/NXT is added] on: January 22, 2014, 01:09:05 AM
Guys, please add EAC and COYE as well) Not so prominent as NXT, but this two will bring you new users for sure
691  Local / Альтернативные криптовалюты / Re: Coinye Coin - интересная монетка on: January 22, 2014, 12:33:56 AM
Я правильно понимаю - форк окончательно и бесповоротно мертв?

В понедельник обещали первую биржу

Везде говорят, что закрылись они. Откуда инфа?

См "официальный" тред - разработчики "старые" слили премайн и отдали аккаунт на форуме и тп другим людям, дело было с недельку наверное назад. По сути не закрылись а сменили владельцев. Биржи сейчас теституются две или три даже новые, в общем, пациент скорее жив)
692  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Free dogecoins! on: January 22, 2014, 12:03:41 AM
I like DOGE because they bring MUCH new users to cryptocommunity, so I want to try them out as well) I like dogs, have two huskies looking similiar to this one))
DFciPrThCJ4m7SfRtL5G3FUjCc5LabiZjd thanks!
693  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][Exchange] Bter.com Announcements [NextCoin/NXT is added] on: January 21, 2014, 09:09:12 PM
What are all those Bter points? Useful for anyone?

I not understand this as well. Yesterday I've traded something like 50k NXTs, and got some points. But after withdrawning about 80% of my balance, all bonuses disappeared. So, looks like it's something like bonus for using the exchange as "saving account"
694  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 21, 2014, 06:12:35 PM
2 questions to devs
1) when we'll be able to trade aliases?
2) why not add some memo field when sending coins? this will be very usefull for merchants and service providers, and most of other users as well)

1. Community will decide
2. We will do that when implement advanced payments.

Great, I hope aliases trading will be implemented in NXT possibilities soon)
695  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 21, 2014, 06:06:05 PM
2 questions to devs
1) when we'll be able to trade aliases?
2) why not add some memo field when sending coins? this will be very usefull for merchants and service providers, and most of other users as well)
696  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 20, 2014, 05:34:04 PM
Dogecoin popular than NXT, we need more publicity

I suggest to make some wallets first - "normal" for windows (average user will kill himself trying to run the current one)), iphone and android. I suppose myself to be advanced user, but I had some "great" time trying to make things working))) No need to advertise widelly the project in its current state imo


bla blah........is still a conference in May:
https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/652-bitcoin2014-l-may-15-17-l-amsterdam/

Of course, by then we may all be sitting in the Maldives, drinking beer served to us by supermodels.

I'm not the least bit surprised at this.
The worst part of it, is that they are still updating the site and are selling tickets.
So I would definitely call it a scam, because there is no way they will ever be able to book Science Park just a few months in advance.

Pity. Hopefully the bitcoinfoundation conference will turn out to be legit.

Having acquired over 10,000 Nxt now, I am willing to do a video conference from the Maledives, too, though.
Any whales reading this: give me and Damelon lots more NXT. We deserve it, tho' I think Damelon deserves it more:
http://www.nxtcoins.nl/

how many nxt does one have to have inorder to be a whale?

Good question......I'll say over the million. I reckon we are going to be looking at $1 / NXT very soon, so any one with 106 or more is gonna be a very happy cetacean.



I like the idea of $1 for 1NXT, but this will kill the idea of using it as payment system. $1 minimal fee is way too much
697  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 20, 2014, 04:38:29 AM
Sorry, but not a lot of action on the official Trading Thread I promise this will be the only time I post this here.

I would love to own as much Nxt as I can get. If there is any huge stakeholder who is tired of sitting on his

Scrooge Mcduck money bin full of Nxt and wants to let some go to someone who has not had a lot of luck lately in

general but keeps his head up. Please consider selling me 10-14 Btc worth at a really really generous makes you feel

like you did a good deed price. If escrow is needed I would like Anon136 to do it. Thanks

Just trade it here: http://dgex.com/index.htm?9112
or bter.com
698  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 20, 2014, 04:36:39 AM
If you want to get more users, and more media attention, when you have the amazing client of "nexern" , I would make the biggest GIVEAWAY ever on Bitcointalk. 1.000.000 NXT with the "unclaimed funds" of CfB

200 NXT each user, so they could use and see the amazing coin we have. We could get a lot of users, and we could take away all the FUD that we have.

thanks.

Its a good idea in general but it shouldnt be done through giveaway on the forum. It would be exploited by giveaway thread scammers. The way to do it would be a faucet giving away inordinately generous payouts and a lot of promotion to make sure that as many people as possible knew about it before hand. Captchas can not be gamed. It would be a really fair way to get a lot of nxt widely distributed among a lot of people. I wouldnt even be adversed to giving the whole 9 mill away like this. Do it in a couple of rounds so that word spreads from the first round so that you have even more participants in the second and third. This would generate a TON of buzz and a lot of involvement.

Bounties are much better I think. It's better to pay for advertisement, exchanges and software, then give all to forum trolls.
699  Other / Archival / Re: closed on: January 20, 2014, 03:39:35 AM
How about adding NXT? It has not bad volume @ bter, and that's just a begining!
700  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Official] Cryptsy Coin Poll on: January 20, 2014, 03:28:24 AM
NXT -> Official information here: http://www.nxtcrypto.org


+1!!! How comes that we can't trade the most prominent altcoin here?
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