Money over IP a threat to bitcoin

[rpg]

I think venmo is the biggest threat to bitcoin. If money over IP becomes prevalent without the need for bitcoin/cryptocurrencies, than the only benefit they really offer is for ideologist/criminals/economic reasons. But a lot of the added utility that we emphasize will disappear. And I ask myself, why don't we have that kiiler app yet?

Maybe we have all been fooled, maybe bitcoin will never go mainstream by the average joe that doesn't own gold and has his money run by a financial manager.
I was an Über-bull, but the realization that i see my friends using venmo, and not even close to understanding bitcoin, just made me extremely bearish

BTC is a store of value and trade first and, an everyday currency next. Most ALTs are better at currency as they confirm in seconds

[xcsler]

A service that provides the ability to easily transfer a medium of exchange with no value has no value.

For all those who are criticizing others as "fiat currency fear mongers" I suggest you read history. Go read the the recent IMF report that explains how to steal 10% of people's wealth. Go ask a Cypriot how easy it is to access what's left of their money.

Gold as a store of value. Sure, but it has counterparty risk unless you have it on hand. Also, many claim that the amount of physical gold is dwarfed by the paper claims on the metal thereby preventing true price discovery. It's much easier, safer, and transparent to store bitcoins either in your own wallet or for a small fee with a trusted third party where the actual bitcoin's existence can be audited with a quick look at the blockchain.
There will never be an "Audit the Bitcoin" movement.

Venmo can kiss my bitcoin ass. 

[maximian]

Venmo isn't money over IP - it's Paypal with a mobile/social interface. Bitcoin is money over IP because it's a protocol for transferring value between users on the internet, and it's a platform for higher-level services.

Venmo isn't a distributed protocol or platform, it's a centralized single entity that removes some of the friction in transferring USD within US borders. It's still subject to all the problems of Paypal - that of arbitrary account suspensions, seizures, and blocking of payments.

You can't use Venmo to transmit money internationally, store value without fear of seizure, hedge against inflation, purchase goods/services with relative privacy, activate an online business instantly, engage freely in voluntary transactions with anyone on the planet, accept payments without risk of chargebacks, and so on.

Bitcoin and Venmo offer different value propositions. Venmo is more of a threat to Paypal than it is to Bitcoin.

[DavidBAL]

Venmo isn't money over IP - it's Paypal with a mobile/social interface. Bitcoin is money over IP because it's a protocol for transferring value between users on the internet, and it's a platform for higher-level services.

Venmo isn't a distributed protocol or platform, it's a centralized single entity that removes some of the friction in transferring USD within US borders. It's still subject to all the problems of Paypal - that of arbitrary account suspensions, seizures, and blocking of payments.

You can't use Venmo to transmit money internationally, store value without fear of seizure, hedge against inflation, purchase goods/services with relative privacy, activate an online business instantly, engage freely in voluntary transactions with anyone on the planet, accept payments without risk of chargebacks, and so on.

Bitcoin and Venmo offer different value propositions. Venmo is more of a threat to Paypal than it is to Bitcoin.

+1

[bitrider]

Venmo isn't money over IP - it's Paypal with a mobile/social interface. Bitcoin is money over IP because it's a protocol for transferring value between users on the internet, and it's a platform for higher-level services.

Venmo isn't a distributed protocol or platform, it's a centralized single entity that removes some of the friction in transferring USD within US borders. It's still subject to all the problems of Paypal - that of arbitrary account suspensions, seizures, and blocking of payments.

You can't use Venmo to transmit money internationally, store value without fear of seizure, hedge against inflation, purchase goods/services with relative privacy, activate an online business instantly, engage freely in voluntary transactions with anyone on the planet, accept payments without risk of chargebacks, and so on.

Bitcoin and Venmo offer different value propositions. Venmo is more of a threat to Paypal than it is to Bitcoin.

+1

+1

[zoinky]

Simply because this is a POSSIBLE solution (not saying it will happen) is essentially why this is no threat to Bitcoin.

[Roy Badami]

Only thing they appear to have over Dwolla is that they take plastic (with roughly the same fee as Paypal), which makes it irrelevant since Paypal is generally used in conjunction with Dwolla, instead of Dwolla being the only choice. For mobile payments, at least in the US, this is taken care of with direct billing on cell charges (though most [all?] app stores have their own payment processor, too] - so I can't think of a market they're filling there. Unlike Bitcoin, Venmo has many direct competitors they don't offer something significant over. Dwolla's obscure -- why will Venmo be any different?

What is the advantage of Dwolla over Paypal, then?  (The disadvantage of Dwolla, of course, is that 96% of the world can't use it - but just curious as to what the advantage is for those of you who can.)

[Kluge]

Only thing they appear to have over Dwolla is that they take plastic (with roughly the same fee as Paypal), which makes it irrelevant since Paypal is generally used in conjunction with Dwolla, instead of Dwolla being the only choice. For mobile payments, at least in the US, this is taken care of with direct billing on cell charges (though most [all?] app stores have their own payment processor, too] - so I can't think of a market they're filling there. Unlike Bitcoin, Venmo has many direct competitors they don't offer something significant over. Dwolla's obscure -- why will Venmo be any different?

What is the advantage of Dwolla over Paypal, then?  (The disadvantage of Dwolla, of course, is that 96% of the world can't use it - but just curious as to what the advantage is for those of you who can.)

Way lower fees for most transactions.

[jav]

Simply because this is a POSSIBLE solution (not saying it will happen) is essentially why this is no threat to Bitcoin.

I am trying to do something like that with Bridgewalker (https://www.bridgewalkerapp.com/ - "a euro-denominated wallet for the Bitcoin economy"). It currently doesn't have a focus on "social features", but it would be possible to add that. Hit me up if you have any feedback!

[adpinbr]

I think venmo is the biggest threat to bitcoin. If money over IP becomes prevalent without the need for bitcoin/cryptocurrencies, than the only benefit they really offer is for ideologist/criminals/economic reasons. But a lot of the added utility that we emphasize will disappear. And I ask myself, why don't we have that kiiler app yet?

Maybe we have all been fooled, maybe bitcoin will never go mainstream by the average joe that doesn't own gold and has his money run by a financial manager.
I was an Über-bull, but the realization that i see my friends using venmo, and not even close to understanding bitcoin, just made me extremely bearish

Just got back from speaking at a conference at Wharton- some kid showed me this app, it's really sick. I have no idea how they move the money so quickly tho.

They don't move the money, its just a float that credits your venmo account, to actually receive the funds in your bank account/use the funds for payment outside the venmo network would still require the standard 1-5 business days. There propostition is that it will hit a network effect and you will never need to go in and out of the venmo network i.e. venmo replaces the utility of bitcoin, or a venmo dollar is a different dollar in terms of liquidity as we currently see on mt gox

PS how the fuck did you get to speak at wharton ?

[adpinbr]

Simply because this is a POSSIBLE solution (not saying it will happen) is essentially why this is no threat to Bitcoin.

it will never happen because then venmo loses the float, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose....especially since at this point in time the success of their business is contingent on the banks goodwill

[User705]

The weakness of many of the pro-bitcoin arguments in this thread, is Bitcoin's success depends on the failure of fiat.  Not a viable business model, IMO.  The masses aren't ideological.  They just want simple and cost effective means to move money.  Digital, fiat...who cares.....

When you say "failure of fiat" you mean what exactly?  Every single fiat in the history of mankind has failed either outright or by massive inflation.  100% failure rate.  There's plenty of issues for bitcoin but depending on failure of fiat isn't one of them.

[ramune]

These are the reason why I believe bitcoin will succeed.

All of this video:
http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action.html

This article:
http://news.rpi.edu/luwakkey/2902

Second half of this video (entire thing is worth watching):
http://www.ted.com/talks/seth_godin_on_sliced_bread.html

Payment processors don't have the above. Bitcoin enticed a variety of people with its pseudo-anonymity, volatile market, and decentralization. Those users came to understand the brilliance of bitcoin which led them to become proponents of bitcoin. That's what happened to me anyway.

None of those payment processors have a user base like bitcoin does. They don't even get half the publicity bitcoin does.