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[unclescrooge]

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[1715382915]

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[finkleshnorts]

INow that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Do you really think that FUD is the reason why he shut down? Bullshit thread is bullshit. Don't count your chickens just yet anyway.

[eroxors]

Trying not to sound ignorant, what does "FUD" mean?

[unclescrooge]

INow that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Do you really think that FUD is the reason why he shut down? Bullshit thread is bullshit. Don't count your chickens just yet anyway.

Of course it is. He needs large amount of coins to operate, why do you think he was paying 7% a week for?

[davout]

Trying not to sound ignorant, what does "FUD" mean?

fear, uncertainty and doubt

[finkleshnorts]

INow that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Do you really think that FUD is the reason why he shut down? Bullshit thread is bullshit. Don't count your chickens just yet anyway.

Of course it is. He needs large amount of coins to operate, why do you think he was paying 7% a week for?

Go read what he said, then. FUD is definitely not why he shut down.

If everyone turns out to get their coins back, then I'll be very, very happy I was wrong.

[Nefario]

INow that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Do you really think that FUD is the reason why he shut down? Bullshit thread is bullshit. Don't count your chickens just yet anyway.

Of course it is. He needs large amount of coins to operate, why do you think he was paying 7% a week for?

Go read what he said, then. FUD is definitely not why he shut down.

If everyone turns out to get their coins back, then I'll be very, very happy I was wrong.

If he returns the funds it will be a boost for the bitcoin economy, 30k + coins now available for investment elsewhere.

[Maged]

The FUD was actually getting Pirate more investments, so you're very welcome!

Anyway, I'm hesitant to go one way or another on this until Monday.

[wachtwoord]

Come on, he announced he is shutting down and paying back. What do you think he is doing? Catching the plane to Brazil this weekend?

And I doubt the FUD lead to more investments.

[unclescrooge]

Don't know if it's the fud. I'm pissed against all this misplaced hatred and insults, that's all.

[bitlane]

Well, I for one AM SORRY.....but I never spread FUD.

Pirate was well aware of my problem and the fact that he stated in his closing thread that he has been in contact with his lenders over the past week, letting them know what was happening....only serves to strengthen my claim. I was ignored.

I’ve spoken with my clients over the last week and come to an agreement that would allow me to close down my operation within a week.  Currently my reserve (operating wallets) are drained from fulfilling the withdraw spree that happened after the rate drop announcement.  All withdraws at this point will be delayed until Monday when the shutdown process begins..

If I had received some of that COMMUNICATION, I would have been more than happy to keep my mouth shut, but it was the LACK OF COMMUNICATION that I simply couldn't take any longer.

Sorry things didn't work out for everyone.

[wachtwoord]

I doubt he spoke with his lenders, even the largest ones.

[teflone]

The crash is Pirate cashing out..  flight to nowhere comes next...

[dust]

I will apologize publicly if all funds are returned.

[makomk]

Now that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Ah, if I had a bitcoin for every scammer or dupe who blamed the failure of their doomed scheme on negativity, on all the nay-sayers who pointed out the obvious warning signs.

I will apologize publicly if all funds are returned.

I doubt this is going to happen somehow but I still won't apologize. If you invest all your money in something that's literally indistinguishable from a Ponzi scheme and somehow, against all the odds, you've managed to get lucky and invest in the one Ponzi-like scheme out of innumerable others that's somehow not actually a Ponzi, why should I or anyone else apologize for telling you that you're an idiot. After all, you still are - just an idiot that got lucky.

[dust]

Now that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Ah, if I had a bitcoin for every scammer or dupe who blamed the failure of their doomed scheme on negativity, on all the nay-sayers who pointed out the obvious warning signs.

I will apologize publicly if all funds are returned.

I doubt this is going to happen somehow but I still won't apologize. If you invest all your money in something that's literally indistinguishable from a Ponzi scheme and somehow, against all the odds, you've managed to get lucky and invest in the one Ponzi-like scheme out of innumerable others that's somehow not actually a Ponzi, why should I or anyone else apologize for telling you that you're an idiot. After all, you still are - just an idiot that got lucky.

I will apologize to pirate if he was not running a scam.  However, if I see anything like his operation pop up in the future, I will not hesitate to call it out as a ponzi again.

[elux]

Come on, he announced he is shutting down and paying back. What do you think he is doing? Catching the plane to Brazil this weekend?

Maybe not Brazil...

[jackmaninov]

I will apologize publicly if all funds are returned.

+1. I think it's honest for people to have been calling it a ponzi, and I'm happy that people were urging caution w.r.t. pirateat40. Live and let live

[smoothie]

The OP has sucked too much Pirate cock.

How the fuck do you know that Pirate brought opportunity to bitcoin when no one even knows his business model?

You are super ignorant. 

[Raoul Duke]

The OP has sucked too much Pirate cock.

How the fuck do you know that Pirate brought opportunity to bitcoin when no one even knows his business model?

You are super ignorant. 

Yeah, the dudes that shake the economy are the morons on the speculation board who profit $3 when the BTC price moves by $2 up and down

[finkleshnorts]

The OP has sucked too much Pirate cock.

How the fuck do you know that Pirate brought opportunity to bitcoin when no one even knows his business model?

You are super ignorant. 

Yeah, the dudes that shake the economy are the morons on the speculation board who profit $3 when the BTC price moves by $2 up and down

lmao

[mc_lovin]

Bit quick to apologise when he hasn't paid everyone back yet, but I have a hunch that he will pay everyone just to prove you guys wrong.

[drlatino999]

Bit quick to apologise when he hasn't paid everyone back yet, but I have a hunch that he will pay everyone just to prove you guys wrong.

I'd love to see that happen since I have a sizeable chunk of coins invested, but it seems safest for me to crack a bottle of gin and sleep this weekend out.

[Phraust]

I'd love to see that happen since I have a sizeable chunk of coins invested, but it seems safest for me to crack a bottle of gin and sleep this weekend out.

Agreed.  I'm going to the beach...

[phantitox]

Bit quick to apologise when he hasn't paid everyone back yet, but I have a hunch that he will pay everyone just to prove you guys wrong.

I'd love to see that happen since I have a sizeable chunk of coins invested, but it seems safest for me to crack a bottle of gin and sleep this weekend out.

I'd love to see that happen since I have a sizeable chunk of coins invested, but it seems safest for me to crack a bottle of gin and sleep this weekend out.

Agreed.  I'm going to the beach...

already there 

[drlatino999]

Bit quick to apologise when he hasn't paid everyone back yet, but I have a hunch that he will pay everyone just to prove you guys wrong.

I'd love to see that happen since I have a sizeable chunk of coins invested, but it seems safest for me to crack a bottle of gin and sleep this weekend out.

I'd love to see that happen since I have a sizeable chunk of coins invested, but it seems safest for me to crack a bottle of gin and sleep this weekend out.

Agreed.  I'm going to the beach...

already there 

If this isn't a stock picture, which it looks to be, you win the internet.

[IveBeenBit]

why should I or anyone else apologize for telling you that you're an idiot. After all, you still are - just an idiot that got lucky.

To answer your question, you should apologize because you and people like you blew up the forums with caustic comments and ceaselessly annoyed hundreds of users. You degraded the quality of support threads such as Bitcoinmax's, in defiance of fellow forum members' pleas to confine your speculations to other threads that were dedicated to being bearish on Pirate. Furthermore, several members of Team Ponzi embarked on a campaign of character assassination against well-regarded members of the community. And you were wrong. That's why you should apologize. But seeing as most members of Team Ponzi have demonstrated their lack of class and good manners, I don't expect many apologies to be forthcoming.

Claims that you were "just trying to help" people not get scammed are also disingenuous. If you were such a nice guy who cared about people's welfare, you wouldn't act like such an asshole towards them. To see how to offer criticism with grace, class and wit, read Gavin's comments on the matter. You were not trying to help people; you were trying to boost your ego and lord your smug superiority over all the "idiots," who are clearly your inferiors.

As a final gift to Team Ponzi, I've put enough money (18BTC, and there's more where that came from if I see more action headed to the opposite side) on this Bets of Bitcoin statement to offer you really good odds if you think Pirate will default on his plan to repay. After all, your opinion is only worth as much as you're willing to wager on it. If you aren't willing to back your oh so strong opinions with cash, then you're just a deflating sack of hot air.

The bet now stands at 33.4 BTC in favor of a default by the end of September and 39.8 BTC against a default. Put up or shut up. The actual conviction that Team Ponzi has to their opinions will be quantified, in public for all to see.

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=521

Edit: BetsofBitcoin.com has apparently closed the bet and refunded my wagers. I am disappoint.

[axus]

30k bitcoins isn't worth disappearing.  If pirate returns all the money, he will have tons of trust for his next venture.  Though he will be poorer.  Let's wait til everyone has their money back.

[DeathAndTaxes]

30k bitcoins isn't worth disappearing.  If pirate returns all the money, he will have tons of trust for his next venture.  Though he will be poorer.  Let's wait til everyone has their money back.

Would 400K Bitcoins be worth disappearing?

[Rarity]

All of the money will most certainly be properly refunded to the rightful owners.  It's shameful that some folks around here would buy into the troll generated plotline that this is some sort of scam and all customers will not be fully reimbursed.  Once again, panic and suspicion around here are outpacing common sense and trust.

“On the day when we can fully trust each other, there will be peace on Earth.”

I know we aren't there yet for the whole world, but for the Bitcoin community I think we need to make some effort before declaring people criminals with no evidence.   I say that for Zhou Tong or Pirateat40 or anyone else falsely accused by this lynch mob masquerading as a community.

[notme]

All of the money will most certainly be properly refunded to the rightful owners.  It's shameful that some folks around here would buy into the troll generated plotline that this is some sort of scam and all customers will not be fully reimbursed.  Once again, panic and suspicion around here are outpacing common sense and trust.

“On the day when we can fully trust each other, there will be peace on Earth.”

I know we aren't there yet for the whole world, but for the Bitcoin community I think we need to make some effort before declaring people criminals with no evidence.   I say that for Zhou Tong or Pirateat40 or anyone else falsely accused by this lynch mob masquerading as a community.

Rarity is a co-conspirator!

[notme]

this lynch mob masquerading as a community.

Bingo.

Resses is in on it too!  And notme!

[imsaguy]

Come on, he announced he is shutting down and paying back. What do you think he is doing? Catching the plane to Brazil this weekend?

Maybe not Brazil...

I hear Ecuador is nice this time of year.

[cryptoanarchist]

This reminds me of the beginning of the Bitcoinica thread.

[repentance]

This reminds me of the beginning of the Bitcoinica thread.

Well there've been almost as many pirate threads as Bitcoinica threads.

[aq]

Now that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Pirates business did pay excellent interest for those that already had tons of coins. Do you really expect that this communitylynch mob will apologize? I am sure those that did cry ponzi actually like to have destroyed this business. I am sure that most of the ponzi blamers knew that it was not a ponzi, but where simply jealous. At least 30% of this communitylynch mob are in here in to help failing Bitcoin. I think a turning point was when even Moderators joined in to blame ponzi, when they should have easily figured out the truth. It seems that using the very own brain is no longer in vogue, especially when pitchforks and burning down makes so much fun.

[World]

If he returns the funds it will be a boost for the bitcoin economy, 30k + coins now available for investment elsewhere.

right time to invest and who pays what?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0;all

[organofcorti]

There'll be a post deletion explosion next week as one side or the other try to remove silly things they wrote.

If Pirate does default, there'll be a large number of high profile members looking like chumps or scammers. If he doesn't, I don't see any apologies happening.

[elux]

There'll be a post deletion explosion next week as one side or the other try to remove silly things they wrote.

Quick! Let's start quoting each others posts for posterity. 

[organofcorti]

There'll be a post deletion explosion next week as one side or the other try to remove silly things they wrote.

Quick! Let's start quoting each others posts for posterity. 

Uh ... alright, then.

[Rarity]

There'll be a post deletion explosion next week as one side or the other try to remove silly things they wrote.

Quick! Let's start quoting each others posts for posterity. 

Uh ... alright, then.

[piotr_n]

If he returns the funds it will be a boost for the bitcoin economy, 30k + coins now available for investment elsewhere.

right time to invest and who pays what?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0;all

I believe he mentioned on IRC yesterday that "BST is over 500k BTC"

[AndrewBUD]

I heard when a douche hits the ground it makes a large thumb sound, any truth behind this?

[Shadow383]

Am I the only one looking at that flash-crash on Gox and thinking it looks very much like someone like... oh, a certain pirate maybe... cashing out?

Yeeeeah, I'll apologise if people get paid back 

[organofcorti]

I heard when a douche hits the ground it makes a large thumb sound, any truth behind this?

Not sure what a large thumb sounds like. It would have to be a pretty large thumb, I'm thinking.

[AndrewBUD]

haha sorry... Typo.. .Thump   Typing and having a 2 year old pulling at your leg so he can type too makes it difficult at times to make sense

[organofcorti]

I heard when a douche hits the ground it makes a large thumb sound, any truth behind this?

Not sure what a large thumb sounds like. It would have to be a pretty large thumb, I'm thinking.

Maybe he just made a bet with Dinah-Moe Humm and just stiffened up his thumb.

That deserves to be quoted for posterity.

[unclescrooge]

Am I the only one looking at that flash-crash on Gox and thinking it looks very much like someone like... oh, a certain pirate maybe... cashing out?

Yeeeeah, I'll apologise if people get paid back 

No, but that looks like someone who will pay back cheaper coins

Thanks for the coming apologies

[Coinoisseur]

Sure are a bunch of Nostradami on this forum, hope there is a stickied shame thread for whichever prognosticators get it wrong.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

why should I or anyone else apologize for telling you that you're an idiot. After all, you still are - just an idiot that got lucky.

To answer your question, you should apologize because you and people like you blew up the forums with caustic comments and ceaselessly annoyed hundreds of users. You degraded the quality of support threads such as Bitcoinmax's, in defiance of fellow forum members' pleas to confine your speculations to other threads that were dedicated to being bearish on Pirate. Furthermore, several members of Team Ponzi embarked on a campaign of character assassination against well-regarded members of the community. And you were wrong. That's why you should apologize. But seeing as most members of Team Ponzi have demonstrated their lack of class and good manners, I don't expect many apologies to be forthcoming.

Claims that you were "just trying to help" people not get scammed are also disingenuous. If you were such a nice guy who cared about people's welfare, you wouldn't act like such an asshole towards them. To see how to offer criticism with grace, class and wit, read Gavin's comments on the matter. You were not trying to help people; you were trying to boost your ego and lord your smug superiority over all the "idiots," who are clearly your inferiors.

Agreed,  well said.

[imsaguy]

why should I or anyone else apologize for telling you that you're an idiot. After all, you still are - just an idiot that got lucky.

To answer your question, you should apologize because you and people like you blew up the forums with caustic comments and ceaselessly annoyed hundreds of users. You degraded the quality of support threads such as Bitcoinmax's, in defiance of fellow forum members' pleas to confine your speculations to other threads that were dedicated to being bearish on Pirate. Furthermore, several members of Team Ponzi embarked on a campaign of character assassination against well-regarded members of the community. And you were wrong. That's why you should apologize. But seeing as most members of Team Ponzi have demonstrated their lack of class and good manners, I don't expect many apologies to be forthcoming.

Claims that you were "just trying to help" people not get scammed are also disingenuous. If you were such a nice guy who cared about people's welfare, you wouldn't act like such an asshole towards them. To see how to offer criticism with grace, class and wit, read Gavin's comments on the matter. You were not trying to help people; you were trying to boost your ego and lord your smug superiority over all the "idiots," who are clearly your inferiors.

As a final gift to Team Ponzi, I've put enough money (18BTC, and there's more where that came from if I see more action headed to the opposite side) on this Bets of Bitcoin statement to offer you really good odds if you think Pirate will default on his plan to repay. After all, your opinion is only worth as much as you're willing to wager on it. If you aren't willing to back your oh so strong opinions with cash, then you're just a deflating sack of hot air.

The bet now stands at 33.4 BTC in favor of a default by the end of September and 39.8 BTC against a default. Put up or shut up. The actual conviction that Team Ponzi has to their opinions will be quantified, in public for all to see.

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=521

Edit: BetsofBitcoin.com has apparently closed the bet and refunded my wagers. I am disappoint.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Yeeeeah, I'll apologise if people get paid back 

Good, thanks.

[streblo]

some base to pour on the vitriol

Thank you for the eloquent post. The difference in language between the pro- and anti- pirate crowd is stark! 

The sad, funny thing about BTCST's demise is that the interest rate was simply too high. Had pirate given 1, or 2, or 3% out and kept the difference for himself, nobody would have cried ponzi and it could have chugged along with other ventures. But instead he generously gave out 7% -- a majority of his earnings -- which ultimately lead to the ponzi FUD and downfall. His kindness was his weakness 

[blazing]

some base to pour on the vitriol

Thank you for the eloquent post. The difference in language between the pro- and anti- pirate crowd is stark! 

The sad, funny thing about BTCST's demise is that the interest rate was simply too high. Had pirate given 1, or 2, or 3% out and kept the difference for himself, nobody would have cried ponzi and it could have chugged along with other ventures. But instead he generously gave out 7% -- a majority of his earnings -- which ultimately lead to the ponzi FUD and downfall. His kindness was his weakness 

Sure he could have chugged along with the other ventures. But do you think he could have accumulated half a million bitcoins?

[AndrewBUD]

Everyone has been paid back ? Nice

[candoo]

Everyone has been paid back ? Nice

not yet! there 's still a hope on it

[drlatino999]

Everyone has been paid back ? Nice

not yet! there 's still a hope on it

I decided to Autocross today, you know, because there was hope I could win. Not much hope in this vicinity though.

[Matthew N. Wright]

This -had- to be posted here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101751

[unclescrooge]

This -had- to be posted here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101751

Nice

[P4man]

Now that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Regardless of the outcome, I dont think anyone owes an apology for  pointing  out that a semi anonymous forum poster paying out >3000% interest per year based on an undisclosed  and rather miraculous business plan is probably a ponzi. That its a legitimate business is possible,  just like its possible that 10-post newbie in the lending section really crashed his car,  needs 1000BTC and will actually pay it back in 6 months with 100% interest. But you wouldnt just assume that, or would you? If anyone called that an almost certain scam, you wouldnt demand proof or apologies, or would you?  The onus to disprove the assumption such a venture is a scam is firmly on the person requesting the loan.  Particularly if you are going to hold millions of dollars of other people's money, the burden of proof of legitimacy is upon that person, and not on anyone pointing out the obvious. Failure to provide any such proof should automatically lead to the assumption its a scam. Assumptions are not facts.

So what proof do we have Pirate scheme is legit?  Pirate chose not to reveal his identity, nor his business model, nor give any other guarantees that he can fullfill his obligations.. No credible explanation for how he could generate those returns has been put forward. In the lending forum most people generally demand far more proof, verification, IDs etc  to lend just 10BTC while pirate lend 100s of 1000s of BTC. Think about it.  So unless you know something I dont,  we have zero evidence its not a ponzi, while it has all the hallmarks of a ponzi,  and therefore the only sensible thing to do is assume it is indeed a ponzi. Could that assumption be proven wrong? Sure,  but we are all waiting for that proof to be paid out.

Now, Id like you all to recall the thread about bitcoinica were paraipan filed a police report to force Zhou Tong to publish his identity and/or the legal entity that ran Bitcoinica:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64176.0

The forum lynched him over that action, Zhou Tong was  considered a saint that no one had the right to doubt, yadayada, go read it. But what paraipan did was a pretty sensible thing to do:  If you are going to give a semi anonymous forum poster 100s of thousands of your coins or dollar, you at least want to know who to sue if it goes wrong. Because it can, and did go very wrong, just like mybitcoin went very wrong and who knows how many other schemes. Everyone with a vested interest in bitcoin lost because of those,  just like we will lose if pirate's scheme turns out to be a scam, even those people who didnt invest in it.

So no, I wont apologize to anyone for using common sense and protecting my interests. I will however, gladly and genuinely congratulate Pirate if he manages to pay off his debt.

[Stephen Gornick]

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Regardless of the outcome, I dont think anyone owes an apology

There was a swing in the Bticoin "market cap" of nearly $75 million in under 48 hours.  That kind of volatility is harmful to Bitcoin.

The announcement occurred when the ability to send wire transfers to Mt. Gox had ended on Friday.  Perfect timing for maximum damage over the weekend.

Pirateat40 is not a friend of Bitcoin.  Pirate ... is a scoundrel.

I do apologize.  But not to pirate.  I apologize for not having the courage of conviction to yell at the top of my lungs that this entire deal stunk to high heaven.

[sadpandatech]

Ima just leave this here;

Cashin' Out

[imsaguy]

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Regardless of the outcome, I dont think anyone owes an apology

There was a swing in the Bticoin "market cap" of nearly $75 million in under 48 hours.  That kind of volatility is harmful to Bitcoin.

The announcement occurred when the ability to send wire transfers to Mt. Gox had ended on Friday.  Perfect timing for maximum damage over the weekend.

Pirateat40 is not a friend of Bitcoin.  Pirate ... is a scoundrel.

I do apologize.  But not to pirate.  I apologize for not having the courage of conviction to yell at the top of my lungs that this entire deal stunk to high heaven.

And what if the stability which you so crave was explicitly caused by pirate for months on end?

[finkleshnorts]

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Regardless of the outcome, I dont think anyone owes an apology

There was a swing in the Bticoin "market cap" of nearly $75 million in under 48 hours.  That kind of volatility is harmful to Bitcoin.

The announcement occurred when the ability to send wire transfers to Mt. Gox had ended on Friday.  Perfect timing for maximum damage over the weekend.

Pirateat40 is not a friend of Bitcoin.  Pirate ... is a scoundrel.

I do apologize.  But not to pirate.  I apologize for not having the courage of conviction to yell at the top of my lungs that this entire deal stunk to high heaven.

+1

[DeathAndTaxes]

And what if the stability which you so crave was explicitly caused by pirate for months on end?

Even if true. 

"The announcement occurred when the ability to send wire transfers to Mt. Gox had ended on Friday.  Perfect timing for maximum damage over the weekend."

Either Pirate is the worlds largest largest idiot and so badly blundered the announcement in such a way that 35% of the purchasing power of his investors funds was annihilated before he even began repayment .... or it was intentional.

Oh and idiots tend not to acquire a sum of 500K BTC.

[organofcorti]

My insight would be that I've seen many "true colors" come out in these last months. A lot of you guys can have a blockchain link to a tx id and a big "fuck you" when this is over with. This forum deserves to be taken for a ride.

Is this a pro or anti pirate rant? Your vitriol needs clarifying.

[elux]

"The announcement occurred when the ability to send wire transfers to Mt. Gox had ended on Friday.  Perfect timing for maximum damage over the weekend."

Either Pirate is the worlds largest largest idiot and so badly blundered the announcement in such a way that 35% of the purchasing power of his investors funds was annihilated before he even began repayment .... or it was intentional.

Oh and idiots tend not to acquire a sum of 500K BTC.

There are many fools around here, but I don't think Pirate is one of them.
Do you all think he would work tirelessly for almost a year, for free, at a loss, just to reward you for being gullible?

Ethical considerations aside, he would be a fool to give back the 5 million dollars he has craftily stolen, save a Tom Williams parting gift.

Roll me in tar and feathers and parade me around town if I turn out to be mistaken.

[organofcorti]

Opinions do not have to be explained. Normally I keep them to myself. Most people on this forum do not keep their opinions to themselves. Maybe I don't understand how to internet though. I'll figure it out eventually.

Donald Trump hair begs to disagree. 

[aq]

Ethical considerations aside, he would be a fool to give back the 5 million dollars he has craftily stolen, save a Tom Williams parting gift.

In other words: pirate is a honest man, while you would always scam given the chance. Revealing...

[dust]

Ethical considerations aside, he would be a fool to give back the 5 million dollars he has craftily stolen, save a Tom Williams parting gift.

In other words: pirate is a honest man, while you would always scam given the chance. Revealing...

Pirate is not proven to be honest yet, and elux said nothing about wanting to scam people himself.

[elux]

In other words: pirate is a honest man, while you would always scam given the chance. Revealing...

 

Dear aq, you seem to have become unwary and abandoned your common sense.

...
Because a ponzi scheme is technically insolvent, in the sense that its liabilities exceed its assets from the first day it does business,
it can only continue until the pool of gullible new investors dries up. At that point, the scheme collapses or the operator folds it up.
 
The collapse may be accelerated by the promoter's overuse of the money on impressive looking trappings for substantiation, or on personal extravagances, to create the appearance of prosperity.
Many first-time perpetrators of this crime become so accustomed to the lifestyle it generates that they themselves are in disbelief when it crumbles, convinced over time by their own lies.

Ponzi schemes can be applied to almost any business or investment, so when it fails, as it must, people often deem it a poor investment rather than an elaborate hoax.
To mask the fraudulent nature of the investment the scammer will often file for bankruptcy after safely hiding the money, then bemoan his failure and offer abject apologies to his loyal followers.

Generally, investors in Ponzi Schemes lose most of their invested moneys because there is no substance whatsoever to the "opportunity".
By making a lie look like a truth they cause you to become unwary and abandon your common sense.
...

Mark Fleming
Consumer Protection Lawyer

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/MajorPerson/ponzi.htm

[aq]

Ethical considerations aside, he would be a fool to give back the 5 million dollars he has craftily stolen, save a Tom Williams parting gift.

In other words: pirate is a honest man, while you would always scam given the chance. Revealing...

Pirate is not proven to be honest yet, and elux said nothing about wanting to scam people himself.

elux said that he would be a fool if he will return the funds. So in elux state of mind, you have to scam to not be a fool. Hence, revealing...

[cryptoanarchist]

So what's the update? Anyone get their funds back yet?

[smoothie]

So what's the update? Anyone get their funds back yet?

Anyone get their coins back yet?

[Herodes]

So what's the update? Anyone get their funds back yet?

Anyone get their coins back yet?

Nah, you should all just be grateful for this 'investment' opportunity. Whoever would want to have their funds back. *sheeees*

To quote the topic starter:

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Wonderful, wonderful! Now we all sing along: "Thank you pirateeee, thank you pirateeee.."

[Tarion]

Can someone explain to me what pirate has done? I don't get it from the search, sorry.

[AndrewBUD]

Search Harder....

[Herodes]

Can someone explain to me what pirate has done? I don't get it from the search, sorry.

Ran away with 5m usd worth of coins ?

[CodesInChaos]

Can someone explain to me what pirate has done? I don't get it from the search, sorry.

Ran away with 5m usd worth of coins ?

Claiming he ran away with 500kBTC is misleading, assuming he's running a ponzi. That may be the paper balance of BTCST, but many of those coins didn't exist in the first place, and he had to pay out the inflated balance of some participants. So his profit is probably significantly smaller than that, but still big.

[Hfertig]

30k bitcoins isn't worth disappearing.  If pirate returns all the money, he will have tons of trust for his next venture.  Though he will be poorer.  Let's wait til everyone has their money back.

Would 400K Bitcoins be worth disappearing?

That is about the sum I would be looking for to retire with 37...

[Ocean6]

OP still got that cheery disposition?

[Shadow383]

Been paid yet?

[AndrewBUD]

That was a pirate pass through that defaulted?

[Bascule]

Actually, I "know" what he was doing, and how he could make such profits. Now if on monday he hasn't paid back/post a news, I will explain the general concept. He was not a scammer, and it wasn't a ponzi, that's for sure. That doesn't mean he will be able to repay all of his debt.

Now I understand why you think pirate deserves to be thanked and everyone who called him a lowlife piece of shit should apologise.

Wait, what?

[bitcoinBull]

Actually, I "know" what he was doing, and how he could make such profits. Now if on monday he hasn't paid back/post a news, I will explain the general concept. He was not a scammer, and it wasn't a ponzi, that's for sure. That doesn't mean he will be able to repay all of his debt.

Now I understand why you think pirate deserves to be thanked and everyone who called him a lowlife piece of shit should apologise.

Wait, what?

You'll understand what I meant on monday.

Do you promise on Monday?

[AndrewBUD]

is Thuesday a new day? Mix of Tuesday and Thursday (sorry I had to)

[AndrewBUD]

mois too monsieur

Je suis né au Quebec

[iCEBREAKER]

is Thuesday a new day? Mix of Tuesday and Thursday (sorry I had to)

In France there are 8 days in a week.  They added Thuesday so their weekends could be 4 days long (Thue-Sun).

/jealous Anglo-Saxon

[mrb]

Actually, I "know" what he was doing, and how he could make such profits. Now if on monday he hasn't paid back/post a news, I will explain the general concept. He was not a scammer, and it wasn't a ponzi, that's for sure.

Pirate raises every single red flag of a Ponzi scheme: overly consistent returns, unregistered investments, secretive and/or complex strategies, difficulty receiving payment, etc. This is from a list published by the U.S. SEC: http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

You are merely trying to convince yourself there is still hope of seeing your money back. Wake up!

I tried to warn victims of not investing in his scheme 2 months ago but you did not listen to me.

[Willowbitcoin]

Why do you no longer feel you will see your money back ?

[JoelKatz]

I believe those who are being called upon to apologize are those who insist, vehemently and repeatedly, that it can only be a Ponzi.

I am one of those. I will not apologize unless I have made some sort of mistake.

People who express that their opinion, based on their reasoning, led them to believe it to be a Ponzi are a different beast, just as those who say they do not believe it to be a Ponzi scheme, but admit that it could be.  These people have formed the quieter majority, of course.  The "extremists" on various axes ("ponzi/notaponzi", "use logic/use repeated claims as if they were fact", etc.) are the ones who have made stands that are primarily signaling activities.  While I don't expect a flood of sincere apologies from anyone (except one person and only if dominoes fall one way), I do hope that people learn from the experience and are more careful, whichever way things turn out.

Can you please explain to me the possibility I failed to consider? I've been asking people to do that and to date nobody has. You cannot fault me for failing to consider a possibility that I had no knowledge of nor any way to know. That's like faulting a caveman for not knowing that Mars has two moons.

A number of people have staked their reputations on the outcome, and a reputation should be jealously guarded.

If there's any mistake in my reasoning, tell me what it is. If you know but refuse to tell me, allowing me to continue to spread what you know is FUD and that I have no way to know, how is that *my* reputation that's at stake?

If I've made a mistake, point it out. I'm happy to correct errors. But all I hear is a broken record of "You might be wrong." and "That's what you think." But when I ask how I might be wrong, all I get back is silence. When I ask what I failed to consider, I get nothing back but handwaving and bogus arguments that Bitcoin is magical.

[JoelKatz]

So yes you can make 10% a week on a capital, miore on that later.

Please, explain how you can make 10% a week by borrowing at 3,600%. I find that very, very hard to believe, but if you have some evidence, I'm perfectly willing to listen. Otherwise, you're basically just saying "it's possible somehow".

[P4man]

So yes you can make 10% a week on a capital, miore on that later.

If you can make 10% per week, why are you posting here instead of sipping cocktails on your yacht?

[JoelKatz]

So yes you can make 10% a week on a capital, miore on that later.

Please, explain how you can make 10% a week by borrowing at 3,600%.

No I didn't mean 10% on top of a loan, but 10% on a capital.

Please, explain you how can make 10% on capital by borrowing at 3,600%. If Pirate doesn't need to borrow at 3,600%, why in the heck is he doing it? Because he likes wasting a buttload of money?

Actually, forget it. Just explain it to me so that I'll understand it and then I'll (probably) point out how it can't possibly make sense with respect to Pirate. (Or just look in the other threads where I did exactly that after people suggested possible ways.)

[Charles Bass]

maybe it´is our mistake that we think in our economy sizes!
we say 1 btc = 11 USD but one bitcoin is only one bitcoin.
atm i get 11 USD for 1 btc but the value of 1 btc is only 1 btc...

The Bank Deposit Rates in Pakistan are between 6-11% and its no ponzi scheme because their currency got another value...

yours, CB

[Charles Bass]

Ok let's suppose.

Suppose you're hanging on the OTC market. You're approached by some clients. They want to buy and later sell large amount of coins (in the order of several thousands or more), quick and OTC to stay anonymous.

What do you? How do you deal with their request?

whats the value of quick? days, months, a half year?

[Shadow383]

So yes you can make 10% a week on a capital, miore on that later.

Please, explain how you can make 10% a week by borrowing at 3,600%.

No I didn't mean 10% on top of a loan, but 10% on a capital.

Please, explain you how can make 10% on capital by borrowing at 3,600%. If Pirate doesn't need to borrow at 3,600%, why in the heck is he doing it? Because he likes wasting a buttload of money?

Oh sorry I was just trolling, you can't make more than 5% a year, I was so dumb thanks for opening my eyes.

Ok i'm done. Bye.

I think you'll agree there's some difference between claiming it's possible to reliably make more than 5% per year (it is) and claiming it's possible to reliably make more than 10% per week, or slightly over 14000% per year.

[P4man]

Ok let's suppose.

Suppose you're hanging on the OTC market. You're approached by some clients. They want to buy and later sell large amount of coins (in the order of several thousands or more), quick and OTC to stay anonymous.

What do you? How do you deal with their request?

Doesnt matter. Can you perhaps make 10% commission on some deals? Sure. Could it make sense to borrow bitcoins to allow you to conduct such business and get started? Sure. But it you are making such windfall profits trading btc, you will not keep lending more and more while compounding your costs,  instead as your own capital grows you will pay back your loans and keep your profits. So this is not a reasonable explanation of what pirate did. If he could make 100s of 1000s btc profits for his investors, he could make them for himself and he wouldnt need anyone to lend him a bloody thing.

[muyuu]

Saddest post in bitcointalk history or just a shill?  

[JoelKatz]

Doesnt matter. Can you perhaps make 10% commission on some deals? Sure. Could it make sense to borrow bitcoins to allow you to conduct such business and get started? Sure. But it you are making such windfall profits trading btc, you will not keep lending more and more while compounding your costs,  instead as your own capital grows you will pay back your loans and keep your profits. So this is not a reasonable explanation of what pirate did. If he could make 100s of 1000s btc profits for his investors, he could make them for himself and he wouldnt need anyone to lend him a bloody thing.

Exactly. Any explanation that doesn't explain why Pirate borrows at 3,600% effectively equates to "Pirate is so rich he can give money away, and he chooses to give money away only to people who would fall for a Ponzi scheme".

[JoelKatz]

Doesnt matter. Can you perhaps make 10% commission on some deals? Sure. Could it make sense to borrow bitcoins to allow you to conduct such business and get started? Sure. But it you are making such windfall profits trading btc, you will not keep lending more and more while compounding your costs,  instead as your own capital grows you will pay back your loans and keep your profits. So this is not a reasonable explanation of what pirate did. If he could make 100s of 1000s btc profits for his investors, he could make them for himself and he wouldnt need anyone to lend him a bloody thing.

Exactly. Any explanation that doesn't explain why Pirate borrows at 3,600% effectively equates to "Pirate is so rich he can give money away, and he chooses to give money away only to people who would fall for a Ponzi scheme".

You asked me how could one make a great return. I'm not even talking about pirate here

Oh, okay. Then we agree. I thought you were trying to explain how I was wrong about Pirate.

Obviously, "Pirate has some secret way to make super-high returns and because he's a nice guy, he shares that money with people who would invest in something that looks exactly like a Ponzi scheme" is silly. So this doesn't explain what Pirate is doing.

[Bitcoin Oz]

The only way hes going to pay back is if he has been working on a competing blockchain and then replaces the existing one with his own. Then he could pay back as many bitcoins as he wants 

[JoelKatz]

Now what we disagree on is that for you, at some points Pirate would have buy his debt back instead of letting the loan go. I do'nt see why. I can see how when you make several % a week of profit on an amount of several hundreds of thousands of btc, you don't see the point to buying back your debt (which would reduce your volume and your profit).

I don't see why it would reduce either your volume or your profit. Also, I don't see why it necessitates buying debt at way above market rates. Also, I cannot comprehend how any legitimate business would make an offer that would only be accepted by someone who would also respond to an offer that was an obvious Ponzi scheme. And those are really just the three most obvious flaws in such an explanation. It falls apart in so many places.

[Grinder]

What do you? How do you deal with their request?

I would ask what they could be doing with all those money in such a tiny economy, why they would pay such a ridiculously huge premium for using bitcoins instead of just transferring the fiat, and what the chances of getting my money back are. I wouldn't be able to come up with a remotely believable answer to justify it, so I'd say no thanks.

[gene]

Threads like this one should be archived into a subforum for easy indexing and cross-referencing. This episode will be useful forthose who wish to study ponzi schemes: their stages, the psychology of victims, the techniques of perpetrators, etc.

I wonder if Theymos would consider freezing posts after a few hours to prevent sneaky retractions/deletions.

[Cluster2k]

If only pirate could have kept his operation going a bit longer.  In a few months he would have pwned every bitcoin in existence.

 

It's only a matter of time until the people who correctly pointed out that his scheme was mathematically impossible to sustain are directly blamed for the collapse of the scheme.  It'll be like a Scooby Doo moment: 'It would have worked if it wasn't for these meddling kids!"

[JoelKatz]

I don't see why it would reduce either your volume or your profit.

During the time when you buy back your debt, while still doing your business of selling and buying coins, you obviously can't grow your volume or even have to reduce it (depending of the rate at which you reimburse your lenders).

That's ridiculous. Borrowing at 3,600% is what would kill your business. Try as you might, you'll never make the numbers work that way.

Well, it was not "way above the market rate" of the btc economy (where loans rates were and still are huge), it was slightly above these rates, which makes sense if you're trying to make a big loan (you have to compete with others, to get the greatest part of lended BTC).

There's no reason you have to borrow in the BTC economy unless something about your business requires it. Why would a rational businessman position himself to compete with Ponzi schemes over anything but the very shortest possible time frame?

Also, I cannot comprehend how any legitimate business would make an offer that would only be accepted by someone who would also respond to an offer that was an obvious Ponzi scheme.

Why not?

Because that's not what legitimate businesses do. Ford doesn't advertise a sale where you drop money in a garbage can in the middle of the night and maybe they'll give you a car in a month.

Every legitimate investment provides investors with some way to know that their funds were actually legitimately invested in something that has a reasonable expectation of making a profit and provides them some way to know that claimed profits or losses were actually the result of legitimate investment activity and not manufactured. It provides an assessment of the risk factors that affect the investment and some way for the investor to at least begin to assess the level of risk.

It is immediately obvious why this rule is essential to investing. A person with a shred of integrity wouldn't even consider asking someone to invest without these basic safeties in place.

[Nubarius]

Some people's perceptions about the nature of "investing" seem to be muddled by the effect of inflationary fiat currencies. In an inflationary currency system (defined as a system with an ever-growing monetary base), changing the format of your wealth to an asset like a house or some company's shares may give you a "return" in terms of the fiat currency simply because the value of the currency has decreased. This is why an interest rate around 2% in America or around 10% in India may be perfectly reasonable, and not a Ponzi scheme. The more stable a currency is expected to be, though, the less leeway for interest there is. In a hypothetical society with a constant monetary base and 0% inflation, every positive yield from an investment (e.g. in a successful company) would have to be matched by an equally-sized default (e.g. by a bankrupt company), since the total money in circulation is a zero-sum game.

Bitcoin is a deflationary system, where as more and more people start using the coins, these become more valuable. I think the growing awareness of Bitcoin largely outweighs the inflationary effect of the 7200 new coins that get mined very day, and that inflationary effect will halve in size in December. Basically, even with coin supply growing, coin demand can grow much faster, so I think we're already in a deflationary stage. This means that returning a loan in bitcoins can be very very hard, much harder than returning an investment in a fiat currency. As a thought experiment, let's imagine a new company sells a 1,000 BTC bond, with an interest of 5% after one year. The investor would get 1,050 BTC next year, which seems reasonable. But the company will  have to convert some (or all) of the original BTC investment into a fiat currency like US dollars or euros (to pay rent, utilities, probably employees...). Their profit is likely to come in the form of fiat money too (even if they sell products in bitcoins, prices will have to trail the fiat exchange rate). Now imagine the USD/BTC rate were to jump from 10 to 100 in one year. How can this company multiply by 10 the part of the principal that they converted into fiat? And the interest of 50 BTC that is now worth 5,000 USD rather than 500?

In the end, loans in BTC are extremely dangerous given the volatility of the exchange rate. I can understand how those who don't believe in Bitcoin and expect its value to collapse may want to give out loans in bitcoins. People like Pirate are basically short-sellers who bet that Bitcoin will collapse (or who delude themselves thinking they can manipulate the market). But anyone who believes in the potential of Bitcoin should be sceptical of any such scheme. For long-term believers in Bitcoin, the cleverest investment is to buy bitcoins now and keep them in cold storage.

It is those who claimed that they could understand what Pirate was doing and that he was legit who should apologise for giving the guy any credibility. And we should thank those that cried Ponzi from the start, as it is very clear that there is no other sensible explanation for what Pirate has been doing.

[muyuu]

Some people's perceptions about the nature of "investing" seem to be muddled by the effect of inflationary fiat currencies. In an inflationary currency system (defined as a system with an ever-growing monetary base), changing the format of your wealth to an asset like a house or some company's shares may give you a "return" in terms of the fiat currency simply because the value of the currency has decreased. This is why an interest rate around 2% in America or around 10% in India may be perfectly reasonable, and not a Ponzi scheme. The more stable a currency is expected to be, though, the less leeway for interest there is. In a hypothetical society with a constant monetary base and 0% inflation, every positive yield from an investment (e.g. in a successful company) would have to be matched by an equally-sized default (e.g. by a bankrupt company), since the total money in circulation is a zero-sum game.

Bitcoin is a deflationary system, where as more and more people start using the coins, these become more valuable. I think the growing awareness of Bitcoin largely outweighs the inflationary effect of the 7200 new coins that get mined very day, and that inflationary effect will halve in size in December. Basically, even with coin supply growing, coin demand can grow much faster, so I think we're already in a deflationary stage.

Yes, it's hard to predict how will the community anticipate the diminishing block rewards but Bitcoin is not deflationary. Right now inflation is still over 25% yearly, and in December it will drop to about 12%. That's still very high inflation short-term and mid-term. The question is how many people hoard, and what are the effects of the long term ~0% inflation, and also the fact that the underlying bitcoin economy might be growing faster than money supply right now.

But "deflationary" is a misleading word to describe bitcoin's planned money supply.

In any case 7%/week beats current bitcoin inflation astronomically and so it did in November when BCST began taking BTC.

[gene]

People like Pirate are basically short-sellers who bet that Bitcoin will collapse (or who delude themselves thinking they can manipulate the market).

Nah. He's just a scam artist.

It is those who claimed that they could understand what Pirate was doing and that he was legit who should apologise for giving the guy any credibility.

Many (most?) of the supporters are more than just gullible fools - they are knowing and willing participants (in some cases, alternate accounts or pirate) who are simply extending the scam for greatest effect.

There really isn't any mystery here.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Some people's perceptions about the nature of "investing" seem to be muddled by the effect of inflationary fiat currencies. In an inflationary currency system (defined as a system with an ever-growing monetary base), changing the format of your wealth to an asset like a house or some company's shares may give you a "return" in terms of the fiat currency simply because the value of the currency has decreased. This is why an interest rate around 2% in America or around 10% in India may be perfectly reasonable, and not a Ponzi scheme.

I would just point out that Pirate's "yield" was so high as to make any inflation or deflation adjustment to be immaterial.  All investors are seeking REAL returns and thus the inflation risk is part of the interest calculation however 7% per week is 3,400% APR.  The inflation component (or lack thereof) is utterly immaterial compared to that asinine interest rate.

3,400% APR in any currency under any circumstances is almost certainly a ponzi scheme and if it isn't the investor should have clear and detailed prospectus outlining why and be able to explain in their own words why. The fact that "this one might not be a ponzi" isn't sufficient.  If that is what one is relying on well then it IS a ponzi.

[Nubarius]

(...) Bitcoin is not deflationary. Right now inflation is still over 25% yearly, and in December it will drop to about 12%. That's still very high inflation short-term and mid-term. The question is how many people hoard, and what are the effects of the long term ~0% inflation, and also the fact that the underlying bitcoin economy might be growing faster than money supply right now.

But "deflationary" is a misleading word to describe bitcoin's planned money supply.

Well, we have 25% inflation if you define the word 'inflation' solely in terms of the coin supply. But the normal meaning of 'inflation' and 'deflation' is related to how prices change, and in that sense we can say there is deflation now in the Bitcoin economy. This is because the user base for the currency is expanding quickly and people are willing to pay more and more fiat for a bitcoin. Since most products and services sold for bitcoins get their price by converting the expected price in fiat currency, things have been getting cheaper in BTC. The pizza that was sold for 10,000 BTC in 2010 would be worth around 2 BTC now. That's quite a deflation rate, and I expect that trend to continue during the next years.

[DeathAndTaxes]

(...) Bitcoin is not deflationary. Right now inflation is still over 25% yearly, and in December it will drop to about 12%. That's still very high inflation short-term and mid-term. The question is how many people hoard, and what are the effects of the long term ~0% inflation, and also the fact that the underlying bitcoin economy might be growing faster than money supply right now.

But "deflationary" is a misleading word to describe bitcoin's planned money supply.

Well, we have 25% 'inflation' if you define the word 'inflation' solely in terms of the coin supply. But the normal meaning of 'inflation' and 'deflation' is related to how prices change, and in that sense we can say there is deflation now in the Bitcoin economy. This is because the user base for the currency is expanding quickly and people are willing to pay more and more fiat for a bitcoin. Since most products and services sold for bitcoins get their price by converting the expected price in fiat currency, things have been getting cheaper in BTC. The pizza that was sold for 10,000 BTC in 2010 would be worth around 2 BTC now. That's quite a deflation rate, and I expect that trend to continue during the next years.

A word of advice.  Use the word price to describe changes in price.  i.e. price inflation or price deflation.  Many people use the a definition of "change in money supply" as the meaning of inflation/deflation so if you are talking about change in price explicitly saying so avoids a lot of unnecessary back and forth (on ever single post).

The counter and then counter counter post and the probably still to come counter counter counter post ...

[muyuu]

(...) Bitcoin is not deflationary. Right now inflation is still over 25% yearly, and in December it will drop to about 12%. That's still very high inflation short-term and mid-term. The question is how many people hoard, and what are the effects of the long term ~0% inflation, and also the fact that the underlying bitcoin economy might be growing faster than money supply right now.

But "deflationary" is a misleading word to describe bitcoin's planned money supply.

Well, we have 25% inflation if you define the word 'inflation' solely in terms of the coin supply. But the normal meaning of 'inflation' and 'deflation' is related to how prices change, and in that sense we can say there is deflation now in the Bitcoin economy. This is because the user base for the currency is expanding quickly and people are willing to pay more and more fiat for a bitcoin. Since most products and services sold for bitcoins get their price by converting the expected price in fiat currency, things have been getting cheaper in BTC.

Thing is, inflation in that sense doesn't translate well since most prices are decided in terms of whatever the exchange rates are against fiat references. We have no significant price indices that are native to the bitcoin economy and the exchange rates are highly speculative and volatile.

The inflation that matters for trusts, banks and funds to be able to return a given %APR is mainly defined by M1 and M2, which also define consumer prices for established currencies.

The pizza that was sold for 10,000 BTC in 2010 would be worth around 2 BTC now. That's quite a deflation rate, and I expect that trend to continue during the next years.

Considering the volatility that would be a risky bet for any given point in time. The pizza that was sold for 10,000 BTC in 2010 would be worth 0.7 BTC in July 2011 and 2 BTC now. Because pizzas are priced in fiat, not in bitcoin and they won't be priced in bitcoin any time soon.

[Nubarius]

A word of advice.  Use the word price to describe changes in price.  i.e. price inflation or price deflation.

Ok, that makes sense. I didn't realise it was common here to regard inflation as the sheer change in coin supply.

[muyuu]

A word of advice.  Use the word price to describe changes in price.  i.e. price inflation or price deflation.

Ok, that makes sense. I didn't realise it was common here to regard inflation as the sheer change in coin supply.

Well, it makes sense to assume that. What else is there? prices are basically never set in bitcoin directly. People look to exchanges and covert fiat to set prices, that's the reality of the situation.

[556j]

I'm french

surprised you haven't surrendered yet.

[muyuu]

I don't think i will see my money back on this one man, but I still don't think it's a ponzi.

I'll post later tomorrow or today how you can make insane profits, and how you can screw up by being exposed in USD when all things in bitcoins are bullish

[bitlane]

I'm new here.

Is this where we say SORRY to Pirate ?

[sarpar]

Actually, I "know" what he was doing, and how he could make such profits. Now if on monday he hasn't paid back/post a news, I will explain the general concept. He was not a scammer, and it wasn't a ponzi, that's for sure. That doesn't mean he will be able to repay all of his debt.

Now I understand why you think pirate deserves to be thanked and everyone who called him a lowlife piece of shit should apologise.

Wait, what?

You'll understand what I meant on monday.

Do you promise on Monday?

Sure (but that could be thuesday for you, I live in France and will give Pirate his full day to give a payment or an explanation)

?

[proudhon]

I'm new here.

Is this where we say SORRY to Pirate ?

Yes, it's also where we can say "Thank You", too.

[bitlane]

I'm new here.

Is this where we say SORRY to Pirate ?

Yes, it's also where we can say "Thank You", too.

If you are thanking me, there's no need.

If you are telling me that I can say 'thank you' to Pirate, then by all means....Look forward to the response once I actually receive my payout.

[Shadow383]

Welp, this thread's starting to look really fucking stupid:

"<pirateat40> Bitcoin Savings & Trust has hereby given notice of default to it's account holders."

[BrightAnarchist]

Welp, this thread's starting to look really fucking stupid:

"<pirateat40> Bitcoin Savings & Trust has hereby given notice of default to it's account holders."

Yeah, just saw it, here's the full announcement:

[17:55] <@pirateat40> As much as I've tried to meet the deadlines within the community, there're conditions beyond my control which have escalated the process to the point it is today.
[17:55] <@pirateat40> Bitcoin Savings & Trust has hereby given notice of default to it's account holders.
[17:57] <@pirateat40> No timeline or further information is available at this time.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Funny that Pirate admits what already happened 12 days ago.  He was in default the second he didn't pay someone who requested a withdraw.

Of course the question is now that he is in default what % can he repay.  Will creditors get anything. If so how much.  He spends time talking about things that aren't in dispute and then provides no new information.

[finkleshnorts]

He spends time talking about things that aren't in dispute and then provides no new information.

lol.

[proudhon]

Funny that Pirate admits what already happened 12 days ago.  He was in default the second he didn't pay someone who requested a withdraw.

Of course the question is now that he is in default what % can he repay.  Will creditors get anything. If so how much.  He spends time talking about things that aren't in dispute and then provides no new information.

This is just silly at this point.

[gene]

Welp, this thread's starting to look really fucking stupid:

"<pirateat40> Bitcoin Savings & Trust has hereby given notice of default to it's account holders."

Oh you mean that only scams default, legitimate businesses don't?

Interesting.

By the way, yeah it was pretty obvious he was having troubles and would defaut, as it is obvious he is not a scammer. I stand by what everyword I said.

Quoting this for kicks.

[gene]

Actually, I "know" what he was doing, and how he could make such profits. Now if on monday he hasn't paid back/post a news, I will explain the general concept. He was not a scammer, and it wasn't a ponzi, that's for sure. That doesn't mean he will be able to repay all of his debt.

Now I understand why you think pirate deserves to be thanked and everyone who called him a lowlife piece of shit should apologise.

Wait, what?

You'll understand what I meant on monday.

Do you promise on Monday?

Sure (but that could be thuesday for you, I live in France and will give Pirate his full day to give a payment or an explanation)

?

Considering that he will likely tell more on friday and that most here rely on assumptions and won't be open to discussion, I will just say that the general concept is probably exposed here. He was buying and selling coins

Quoting this too. Thanks for uncovering that specific jewel. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll have to tend to my severe laughter-induced hemorrhage.

[muyuu]

Laugh laugh, it's easy to bleat with the herd

Good stuff you at least put a nice bet against Matthew, so you'll get something back, while you convinced others that everything was alright 

[makomk]

Oh you mean that only scams default, legitimate businesses don't?

Legitimate businesses can default sometimes, but ponzis always default. Oh, and legitimate businesses provide evidence that they've actually invested money where they claim they're going to and that it genuinely didn't work out in order to distinguish themselves from scammers who are pretending that their business just failed.

[gene]

Oh you mean that only scams default, legitimate businesses don't?

Legitimate businesses can default sometimes, but ponzis always default. Oh, and legitimate businesses provide evidence that they've actually invested money where they claim they're going to and that it genuinely didn't work out in order to distinguish themselves from scammers who are pretending that their business just failed.

This kid would accept that pirate was mining adamantium on pluto as a jolly good explanation. The venture fell apart following klingon invasion.

[markm]

Hey now! The presence of Klingons in the outer solar system is classified information! The official secrets act folk will be after you now!

-MarkM-

[bitdragon]

Full disclosure: I bet 100% of my holdings in PPT with Matthew, meaning I'm 100% sure of the outcome.

Sorry for my misunderstanding. Did Matthew run a pass through as well and you are keeping your funds there until potential payout, or you bet 100% against Matthew that Pirate will not return?

[muyuu]

Full disclosure: I bet 100% of my holdings in PPT with Matthew, meaning I'm 100% sure of the outcome.

Sorry for my misunderstanding. Did Matthew run a pass through as well and you are keeping your funds there until potential payout, or you bet 100% against Matthew that Pirate will not return?

He did bet against Matthew that Pirate won't repay. Apparently he's 100% covered by that bet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ajtx05YrHtIydFVHcGxLOExTbnhqajJLZmlSZUNtM3c#gid=0   (Unclescrooge 450BTC)

But still posts like a right shill that Pirate is legit 

The difference between a planned ponzi and criminal negligence is academic. For all we know, money is lost. Proving intent is most of the time not feasible.

[muyuu]

Proving intent is easy, when you have real clients and business activities, you can prove it

Nope, that's an alibi, but still proves nothing. Mafia fronts have also existed forever.

[AndrewBUD]

Matthew will default just like pirate before anyone get's paid on these "bets"




Wheres my damn single

[DeathAndTaxes]

Full disclosure: I bet 100% of my holdings in PPT with Matthew, meaning I'm 100% sure of the outcome.

Sorry for my misunderstanding. Did Matthew run a pass through as well and you are keeping your funds there until potential payout, or you bet 100% against Matthew that Pirate will not return?

muyuu got it, I bet with Matthew that Pirate won't pay (to cover the losss).

Unbelievable for a shill, isn't it?

Not really.  Shilling is free (or even better than free if you get suckers to join the ponzi).
Matt bet was a way to cover your ass but Karma is a bitch.  Matt isn't going to pay a single bitcent. 

[556j]

Oh fuck I'm broke

How am i going to repay the loan I took at my bank

Time to make a date with Hedonism Bot

[Bitcoin Oz]

That's ok, I'll take a second job at night to repay off, I'll be fine

Please tell me you didnt take out  a bank loan to "invest" in pirate.

facepalm.jpg

[sadpandatech]

That's ok, I'll take a second job at night to repay off, I'll be fine

you're trollin' right? If so, you had me fooled. If not, well, hard work builds character and will limit the amount of free time you may have otherwise had and could have potentially ran into another get rich quick, Pirate scheme. :/

But he seemed legit.

Ok no I was just trolling. You really think everyone that invested in BTCST is a dumbshit who doesn't know what he's doing and put all his money into one wonderful opportunity? Come on.

I'm having fun though

 

[bitcoinBull]

All of the money will most certainly be properly refunded to the rightful owners.  It's shameful that some folks around here would buy into the troll generated plotline that this is some sort of scam and all customers will not be fully reimbursed.  Once again, panic and suspicion around here are outpacing common sense and trust.

“On the day when we can fully trust each other, there will be peace on Earth.”

I know we aren't there yet for the whole world, but for the Bitcoin community I think we need to make some effort before declaring people criminals with no evidence.   I say that for Zhou Tong or Pirateat40 or anyone else falsely accused by this lynch mob masquerading as a community.

Quoted for hilarity.

[finkleshnorts]

I think rarity is a Phin Gage sock puppet!

[ErebusBat]

I think rarity is a Phin Gage sock puppet!

I disagree

[AndrewBUD]

^ Yeah, I agree with your disagree. Phin sock puppets are more likeable

[Puppet]

Now that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

I apologize sincerely to anyone I mislead in to believing Pirate was running a  Ponzi.
SORRY!

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

So true;
THANK YOU PIRATE, THANK YOU!

[ObviousSock]

Now that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

I apologize sincerely to anyone I mislead in to believing Pirate was running a  Ponzi.
SORRY!

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

So true;
THANK YOU PIRATE, THANK YOU!

To bad he has a ton a our coins so we can do dick with the price increase... except pay more to buy new our coins (which may be our coins anyway).

[Electricbees]

Thank you, Pirate, for this bountiful you hath provided. Your honesty and business practices were the best we've seen in years. Thank you.

 

[Monkey1]

Thank you Pirate for demonstrating the best way to run a Ponzi and to part willing volunteers from their coins!

[evolve]

Sorry for giving you so much shit about stealing all those peoples money, and thank you for the forum war it brung.

Also, driving Matthew Wright off the deep end was kinda funny.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Sorry for giving you so much shit about stealing all those peoples money, and thank you for the forum war it brung.

Also, driving Matthew Wright off the deep end was kinda funny.

There's an entire civilization down here. You should come on down.

[greyhawk]

I knew the mole people were up to something. 

[sadpandatech]

Sorry for giving you so much shit about stealing all those peoples money, and thank you for the forum war it brung.

Also, driving Matthew Wright off the deep end was kinda funny.

There's an entire civilization down here. You should come on down.

*grrr* But, the rent is already 'Too Damn High!'


Speaking of thanking people for running off with other people's monies. Did anyone else read that a large SR money exchanger known as Vlad1m1r jumped ship with a 'substantial' amount of funds?

[SysRun]

link please

[sadpandatech]

link please

can't link here. Go to the sr forums and search for Vlad1m1r

[ErebusBat]

link please

can't link here. Go to the sr forums and search for Vlad1m1r

Can you not give .onion links here?  I have never used SR so I don't have the link.

[evolve]

I think rarity is a Phin Gage sock puppet!

Nah, rarity is a goon from SA forums. They even claim him in the bitcoin thread....apparently, no one there thinks he is funny either.

[IveBeenBit]

Can you not give .onion links here?  I have never used SR so I don't have the link.

It's against forum rules to link to sites operating illegal markets and the mods are very strict about it. If you want to see it that badly, offer BTC0.10 in the marketplace for a cut & paste emailed to you. I'm sure someone will do it.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Sorry for giving you so much shit about stealing all those peoples money, and thank you for the forum war it brung.
Also, driving Matthew Wright off the deep end was kinda funny.

+1. Not to mention the flames, the drama, and the lulz.
Maybe it is time to launch a contest for the biggest Bitcoin scammer of the year.
This prize could be appropriate:

[sadpandatech]

link please

can't link here. Go to the sr forums and search for Vlad1m1r

Can you not give .onion links here?  I have never used SR so I don't have the link.

its for the forums. it is not so hidden. load up tor and google for 'sr forums'.

[Mosrite]

INow that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Do you really think that FUD is the reason why he shut down? Bullshit thread is bullshit. Don't count your chickens just yet anyway.

Of course it is. He needs large amount of coins to operate, why do you think he was paying 7% a week for?

Go read what he said, then. FUD is definitely not why he shut down.

If everyone turns out to get their coins back, then I'll be very, very happy I was wrong.

If he returns the funds it will be a boost for the bitcoin economy, 30k + coins now available for investment elsewhere.

Allow me to quote an excellent film, Breaking Away. "Refund? REFUND?!!!!" There will be no coins coming from this scammer. None.

[unclescrooge]

Since it seems this thread is doing some damage for my reputation and since it's not quite clear apparently that I don't endorse scams and ponzi schemes, I would like to publicly apologize for this thread. This was a foolish, stupid and very arrogant thread. At the time I wrote this, I had fully fallen for pirate scam. it wasn't enough that I had fallen for this, I felt obligated to scream my stupidity at the face of the world because I really thought trendon shavers was legit and a victim of others people that tried to warn us of his scam.

This has been a great lesson for me, trust me. I had lost coins on this, I have not profited from this scheme nor do I plan to scam anybody with new schemes.

Sorry everyone

Raphael

[greyhawk]

This has been a great lesson for me, trust me.

Then why are you trying to run an exchange based on previously compromised code?

[Raoul Duke]

previously compromised code?

That's still somewhat to be proven... Maybe a relic collector compromised it

[unclescrooge]

This has been a great lesson for me, trust me.

Then why are you trying to run an exchange based on previously compromised code?

Most of the code is new. You can feel that because of the way orders are executed on bitfinex: they are absolutely not executed like in bitcoinica. orders are matched against real orders, can be and are often partially filled (like on mtgox when you execute an order), instead of being executed in full against an arbitrary ticker price like bitcoinica orders.

The code don't use float numbers, we checked against possible race conditions (did have some previous week and that allow us to update the code), we added all the input controls that we could, we simplified and rewrited workers...

Plus, finally, even if the server is compromised, there is nothing on it that would let a hacker steal bitcoins or usd, from the wallets (which is readonly) nor from mtgox (the api key doesn't allow that).

So seriously, it is secure.

Now believe what you want, I'm returning to my work on improving the website with new features.

Raphael

[greyhawk]

previously compromised code?

That's still somewhat to be proven... Maybe a relic collector compromised it

Damn these Chinese Lara Crofts

[greyhawk]

I just finished doing the one on the right side.

I said Damn them, not Fuck them. 

[organofcorti]

I just finished doing the one on the right side.

I said Damn them, not Fuck them. 

Oh sorry.. My bad

Hey, wait - AndrewBUD can damn people with his penis? Is it satanic or possessed or something?