If Greece defaults

[GreenStox]

Either that might happen or AMerica will just send in the Turks to take a few islands for free.. No one wants Greece to thrive and unfortunately I believe even the Greek people have acted too little too late because they were busy enjoying the lifestyle life on debt.  Ask this generation if they want to go and work in the fields? No way, they all wanna be singers and footballers now.. It's a shame..such a lovely country going to waste..I hope Tsipras can turn the country around and the People rally behind him. They really need that ministry of corruption to go into high gear and get all those relatives of Samaras on the lagard list.. If the Government gave me free land in Greece I would build crypto cooperatives all over Greece, am going to send them a whitepaper of my idea..see if anyone cotton's on..

Thats bullshit. People would want to work in the fields but the government doesnt let them.

Do you know how many regulations you have to follow to be a farmer? Do you know how many taxes the EU puts on fucking farming equipment.

The tractors are taxed by m^3 of fuel consumption, and all the fucking safety regulation is bullshit.


How about throwing the greek commercial code , fiscal code and all other government regulation, in the trash can, and let people trade and produce freely without restrictions.

In 2 years Greece would be out of debt and will look like Hong Kong if you would do that

But are you praising socialists who want even more regulations and taxes? 

[zemario]

There is no need for a plan B. The Greek government is still on track for its plan A:
Agree to any negotiation but never finalize anything. Start making silly claims (ww2 payments) yourself. In the mean time all of their personal assets are long safe. When finally nobody sends money to Greece anymore they'll go bankrupt.
Then tey'll blame it on everybody but thelselves.

Why they don't take on the chucrch ?
Why they don't take on the superwealthy Greek ?
Answer is easy, politicians from any party are very closely tied to both of those parties = corruption.

This looks obvious to me too, and I find this whole discussion silly.

[Get-Paid.com]

Unfortunately, it seems all of Varoufakis tricks are coming to an end. Tsipras has decreased his authority and now he will not be the main negotiator in the eurogroup.

Yes, just read this one:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/

“If you know that the system is rotten, why don’t you do something to change it?,” an anarchist asked Varoufakis to get a stunning reply.

“It’s not possible, simply. This is the current system, I tried, but I failed. It’s impossible,” admitted the Greek Finance minister according to the witness.
- See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/#sthash.rtZQnkFy.dpuf

[GreenStox]

Actually it does look like the Greeks are playing for time. Only the Bankster cunts think they have folded. Change is coming and Greece just have to stay in the game (is either this, or being a huge letdown). 

The Bankster scum have revealed their true fascist nature, this is all out in the open for all to see. No more dodgy deals behind closed doors.

I'm confident the day will come when all the worthless useless produce nothing parasitical bankster turds and their sycophantic boot licking politician servants will be rounded up, tried for crimes against humanity and executed.I'm sure a long queue of volunteers is forming now to operate the guillotines...

That day will never come, humans are just too stupid to know their enemy, and to be honest they really deserve it. If they are stupid, then let the banksters rob them perpetually, that is what they are good for.

In the meantime let us become rich with bitcoin and F the rest of them.

[Q7]

Unfortunately, it seems all of Varoufakis tricks are coming to an end. Tsipras has decreased his authority and now he will not be the main negotiator in the eurogroup.

Yes, just read this one:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/

“If you know that the system is rotten, why don’t you do something to change it?,” an anarchist asked Varoufakis to get a stunning reply.

“It’s not possible, simply. This is the current system, I tried, but I failed. It’s impossible,” admitted the Greek Finance minister according to the witness.
- See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/#sthash.rtZQnkFy.dpuf

It obviously takes more than just a single person to make the change even though that person holds the authority or power to decide the monetary policy. You know the system is rotten and the only thing they can do right now is to patch up a leak and open up another new hole in the process. It's destined to be doomed.

[GreenStox]

Unfortunately, it seems all of Varoufakis tricks are coming to an end. Tsipras has decreased his authority and now he will not be the main negotiator in the eurogroup.

Yes, just read this one:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/

“If you know that the system is rotten, why don’t you do something to change it?,” an anarchist asked Varoufakis to get a stunning reply.

“It’s not possible, simply. This is the current system, I tried, but I failed. It’s impossible,” admitted the Greek Finance minister according to the witness.
- See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/#sthash.rtZQnkFy.dpuf

Wow that was a good one, as a voluntaryst myself, i have never thought that there is a single politician out there that has its integrity.

Most of them are just parasitic, thief ,manipulator ,cockroach, sociopaths and some even psychopaths, acting as if they were God on Earth.

Well that guy seems different. Good luck for him, too bad he will be thrown out quick, the scum doesnt like honest people hanging around them.

[peeveepee]

Unfortunately, it seems all of Varoufakis tricks are coming to an end. Tsipras has decreased his authority and now he will not be the main negotiator in the eurogroup.

Yes, just read this one:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/

“If you know that the system is rotten, why don’t you do something to change it?,” an anarchist asked Varoufakis to get a stunning reply.

“It’s not possible, simply. This is the current system, I tried, but I failed. It’s impossible,” admitted the Greek Finance minister according to the witness.
- See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/#sthash.rtZQnkFy.dpuf

Wow that was a good one, as a voluntaryst myself, i have never thought that there is a single politician out there that has its integrity.

Most of them are just parasitic, thief ,manipulator ,cockroach, sociopaths and some even psychopaths, acting as if they were God on Earth.

Well that guy seems different. Good luck for him, too bad he will be thrown out quick, the scum doesnt like honest people hanging around them.

Don't forget all the politicians are put there by the country population. If the country is not complaining, why should anyone else?

[electerium]

There is no need for a plan B. The Greek government is still on track for its plan A:
Agree to any negotiation but never finalize anything. Start making silly claims (ww2 payments) yourself. In the mean time all of their personal assets are long safe. When finally nobody sends money to Greece anymore they'll go bankrupt.
Then tey'll blame it on everybody but thelselves.

Why they don't take on the chucrch ?
Why they don't take on the superwealthy Greek ?
Answer is easy, politicians from any party are very closely tied to both of those parties = corruption.

This looks obvious to me too, and I find this whole discussion silly.

I think you're dead wrong here.


The consequences of defaulting are literally haunting. If you think the world debt load looks bad and is a runaway freight train, the end game results of defaulting are literally worse.


They will have no currency that will be accepted by the surrounding european countries = no trade, no export, no import
They will have no natural resources = no commodity trades, they will already have to sell whatever commodities they have at a bigger loss (think iran selling oil to china while oil plummets in value)
They will be completely cut off from the international banking system = no ability to internationally transact


I mean, those things start the exact second they declare a default.

Who knows what punishments ensue, because they wont be allowed back into the international banking system.

Defaulting might bring structural changes that are desperately needed, but it could (likely) also send them bank into the medieval times for 10-15 years. A complete generation of people will have suffered because of it. And by suffering, I mean people literally dying in the streets from starvation.


The trick is that while their government wont hold EUROs, the citizens will. And it will create this fascinating micro economy where the Greek government begins issuing a new currency, which no one will prefer, while everyone backroom deals in Euro.

If you thought it was difficult to raise revenue through proper tax enforcment now, think about what happens post default. It will be even worse.

(for the record, the most practical decision is clearly to default. you preserve your sovereignty, but you lose a lot of lives in the process)

[electerium]

And yanis varoufakis is not a stupid man, hes actually fucking brilliant, academically speaking.

I'm positive he is very aware that bitcoin (because he's talked about it publicly so much) can subvert many of the international political fallout towards Greece in an event of a default.

[zemario]

As johan; very clearly put it, defaulting, or other major economical/social disruption event is waived as a threat, but the fact is that even the right to have those is taken away from people.
Have you thought about those to question marks? Why not taking on the very wealthy? Why not taking on the church?
Really, why is directly impacting the bulk of the population assets more reasonable than a handful. If they were going to say "well, it's not fair, but we need to put the hands on working class people's pockets" why is it always out of question simple take over a couple of strategic large companies?

If this is as serious as they want to make everyone believe, then they could simple gather a couple of hundred soldiers and in one single morning take over the largest bank, or the largest power company and nationalize it. This is the way it has been done since the dawn of human history.
The matter in question here is not country finance or other bullshit they come up with, it is: "how can we still make business".

A few years ago, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez acompained by militar force, headed up to Santander Bank's office and demanded the to leave the country while paying them in cash the estimated value of the bank. You might not like him (he's dead anyway) but this is the difference between actually wanting to fix an economical problem and just giving you some bullshit so you work harder and get payed less while their business is not disruped or abruptly take out of their hands.

Now all those think bitcoin can have an important role here, I haven't looked at the numbers, but I don't think bitcoin provides enough liquidity right now, it would need to be worth some 100 times more or so. But you cannot expect it to arbitrarily being inflated that much in a short period of time. That would be even worse than bootstraping a new currency.

[Erdogan]

As johan; very clearly put it, defaulting, or other major economical/social disruption event is waived as a threat, but the fact is that even the right to have those is taken away from people.
Have you thought about those to question marks? Why not taking on the very wealthy? Why not taking on the church?
Really, why is directly impacting the bulk of the population assets more reasonable than a handful. If they were going to say "well, it's not fair, but we need to put the hands on working class people's pockets" why is it always out of question simple take over a couple of strategic large companies?

If this is as serious as they want to make everyone believe, then they could simple gather a couple of hundred soldiers and in one single morning take over the largest bank, or the largest power company and nationalize it. This is the way it has been done since the dawn of human history.
The matter in question here is not country finance or other bullshit they come up with, it is: "how can we still make business".

A few years ago, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez acompained by militar force, headed up to Santander Bank's office and demanded the to leave the country while paying them in cash the estimated value of the bank. You might not like him (he's dead anyway) but this is the difference between actually wanting to fix an economical problem and just giving you some bullshit so you work harder and get payed less while their business is not disruped or abruptly take out of their hands.

Now all those think bitcoin can have an important role here, I haven't looked at the numbers, but I don't think bitcoin provides enough liquidity right now, it would need to be worth some 100 times more or so. But you cannot expect it to arbitrarily being inflated that much in a short period of time. That would be even worse than bootstraping a new currency.

This will only take them further into the abyss, and you wrote the answer yourself, the example of Venezuela. This site has sometimes articles from the ground in Venezuela: www.panampost.com

The focus on the rich or the super rich, is a diversion. Yes, they did maybe get it by unethical means, and that corruption should be shut off. But nationalizing companies in order to get it back, will only make it worse.

What they need is sell off government companies to the public, to greeks or foreigners, not primarily to get the money, but to make those companies privately owned.

[dinofelis]

But Greece already defaulted partially.  How do you call getting half of your debts wavered away ?

[Get-Paid.com]

Unfortunately, it seems all of Varoufakis tricks are coming to an end. Tsipras has decreased his authority and now he will not be the main negotiator in the eurogroup.

Yes, just read this one:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/

“If you know that the system is rotten, why don’t you do something to change it?,” an anarchist asked Varoufakis to get a stunning reply.

“It’s not possible, simply. This is the current system, I tried, but I failed. It’s impossible,” admitted the Greek Finance minister according to the witness.
- See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/#sthash.rtZQnkFy.dpuf

Wow that was a good one, as a voluntaryst myself, i have never thought that there is a single politician out there that has its integrity.

Most of them are just parasitic, thief ,manipulator ,cockroach, sociopaths and some even psychopaths, acting as if they were God on Earth.

Well that guy seems different. Good luck for him, too bad he will be thrown out quick, the scum doesnt like honest people hanging around them.

All decent politicians can never survive, it's just not their "game" if they can't cheat.

[tooil]

Unfortunately, it seems all of Varoufakis tricks are coming to an end. Tsipras has decreased his authority and now he will not be the main negotiator in the eurogroup.

Yes, just read this one:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/

“If you know that the system is rotten, why don’t you do something to change it?,” an anarchist asked Varoufakis to get a stunning reply.

“It’s not possible, simply. This is the current system, I tried, but I failed. It’s impossible,” admitted the Greek Finance minister according to the witness.
- See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/#sthash.rtZQnkFy.dpuf

Wow that was a good one, as a voluntaryst myself, i have never thought that there is a single politician out there that has its integrity.

Most of them are just parasitic, thief ,manipulator ,cockroach, sociopaths and some even psychopaths, acting as if they were God on Earth.

Well that guy seems different. Good luck for him, too bad he will be thrown out quick, the scum doesnt like honest people hanging around them.

All decent politicians can never survive, it's just not their "game" if they can't cheat.

Need to play dirty to get elected because the citizen is too stupid. By the time any decent men get thru the election process, they are already rotten to the core.

[umair01]

I doubt Greece will default, that would bring the entire country to an immediate halt, which is not the most practical decision, and the fact that BTC can replace it is even more preposterous, no doubt severe systematic changes may occur, other eu countries are still strong ,i'm sure they will be able to weather this storm, but with a great deal of economic changes will ensue.

[Erdogan]

I doubt Greece will default, that would bring the entire country to an immediate halt, which is not the most practical decision, and the fact that BTC can replace it is even more preposterous, no doubt severe systematic changes may occur, other eu countries are still strong ,i'm sure they will be able to weather this storm, but with a great deal of economic changes will ensue.

You can't imagine...therefore it won't happen.

[GreenStox]

I think you're dead wrong here.


The consequences of defaulting are literally haunting. If you think the world debt load looks bad and is a runaway freight train, the end game results of defaulting are literally worse.


They will have no currency that will be accepted by the surrounding european countries = no trade, no export, no import
They will have no natural resources = no commodity trades, they will already have to sell whatever commodities they have at a bigger loss (think iran selling oil to china while oil plummets in value)
They will be completely cut off from the international banking system = no ability to internationally transact


I mean, those things start the exact second they declare a default.

Who knows what punishments ensue, because they wont be allowed back into the international banking system.

Defaulting might bring structural changes that are desperately needed, but it could (likely) also send them bank into the medieval times for 10-15 years. A complete generation of people will have suffered because of it. And by suffering, I mean people literally dying in the streets from starvation.


The trick is that while their government wont hold EUROs, the citizens will. And it will create this fascinating micro economy where the Greek government begins issuing a new currency, which no one will prefer, while everyone backroom deals in Euro.

If you thought it was difficult to raise revenue through proper tax enforcment now, think about what happens post default. It will be even worse.

(for the record, the most practical decision is clearly to default. you preserve your sovereignty, but you lose a lot of lives in the process)

I`m not sure that defaulting would be that bad, the only ones that would lose are the banksters.

Well look, we all got the properties, and we all good the hard-goods, we can just continue everything, except without the banksters.

Of course seized property, from not paying mortgage has to stop obviously, instead if the banksters could be stripped from their illegitimally gained property, and then we reset the game, it could actually work.

The only thing we could lose in a default is our shackles from the global debt ponzi scheme

Then rebuild the world, without governments and central banks, based on voluntary transactions and freedom.

Of course if riots break out, because of the shock, that could cause alot of harm, but generally speaking it would not be that bad.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

I doubt Greece will default, that would bring the entire country to an immediate halt, which is not the most practical decision, and the fact that BTC can replace it is even more preposterous, no doubt severe systematic changes may occur, other eu countries are still strong ,i'm sure they will be able to weather this storm, but with a great deal of economic changes will ensue.

Default seems like the only way out, they are trapped in a street without exit, they either default or get fucked by Merkel which would lead to eventual default as people riot on a daily basis due unviable measures.

[aso118]

I doubt Greece will default, that would bring the entire country to an immediate halt, which is not the most practical decision

The option to start on a clean slate might be tempting. They may decide that quick death is preferable to death by a thousand cuts. 

[qiwoman2]

Unfortinately with Greece, it is way too democratic and lax and for the wrong reasons..If capital punishment was brought in for evading humongous taxes..I mean for the rich and that Bulgarian dude who killed his daughter up and cut her into pieces and boiled her into a soup for example I am sure a lot of the socio-economic problems would be fixed. There is not the will nor the drive for a new penal system to come in place. You need to fix the judicial system first before you can recharge economic and social reforms. The penal system is too relaxed for high penalty peeps. No one is afraid to do harm to themselves or others in the current climate. In order for democracy to thrive you need a more civilized world and at present we don't have it, not in Greece or anywhere much else.