If Greece defaults

[qiwoman2]

Unfortunately with Greece, it is way too democratic and lax and for the wrong reasons..If capital punishment was brought in for evading humongous taxes..I mean for the rich and that Bulgarian dude who killed his daughter up and cut her into pieces and boiled her into a soup for example I am sure a lot of the socio-economic problems would be fixed. There is not the will nor the drive for a new penal system to come in place. You need to fix the judicial system first before you can recharge economic and social reforms. The penal system is too relaxed for high penalty peeps. No one is afraid to do harm to themselves or others in the current climate. In order for democracy to thrive you need a more civilized world and at present we don't have it, not in Greece or anywhere much else. I am Greek myself and I know the mentality very well.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Unfortinately with Greece, it is way too democratic and lax and for the wrong reasons..If capital punishment was brought in for evading humongous taxes..I mean for the rich

Tax the rich, that old chestnut. Great idea.

[alani123]

Unfortinately with Greece, it is way too democratic and lax and for the wrong reasons..If capital punishment was brought in for evading humongous taxes..I mean for the rich

Tax the rich, that old chestnut. Great idea.

Greece has the biggest fleet in the world, so taxing the rich could actually work. Ship owners enjoy not paying taxes in Greece and dare the government try to change that, they'll blackmail the parliament again so they can keep avoiding taxes.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Greece has the biggest fleet in the world, so taxing the rich could actually work. Ship owners enjoy not paying taxes in Greece and dare the government try to change that, they'll blackmail the parliament again so they can keep avoiding taxes.

Sure it'd be a good raid for some quick cash, but it would just end up with a further stampede of capital from Greece.

[alani123]

Greece has the biggest fleet in the world, so taxing the rich could actually work. Ship owners enjoy not paying taxes in Greece and dare the government try to change that, they'll blackmail the parliament again so they can keep avoiding taxes.

Sure it'd be a good raid for some quick cash, but it would just end up with a further stampede of capital from Greece.

What makes you think that taxation of ship owners wouldn't benefit Greece in the long term? I think that opposed to what you say, the effect would started showing in the long term. After payments to the institutions had stabilized, a fair taxation of ship owners could offer the state some stable funding. Other industries have already come to terms with the government and are now paying taxes regularly. It's kind of surprising to see Greece's biggest industry paying no taxes.

[thejaytiesto]

Not a Communist, but since 1974, this looked like the 1st time, regular people wld have representation. Then the old boys explain to the new boys, they have no choice but to go along because it is their job to SAVE THE WORLD. The old boys will continue to do what they do best: DENY, DELUDE & DELAY. Meanwhile GR will continue to sink into an abyss.

You don't need to be a communist with taxing on the mega rich, it's just common sense. If someone has 500 million his bank account, his life quality is going to be exactly with same with 400, or even with 250. It's a joke that you are condemned to wageslaving while they could help a lot into making lifes less stressed without noticing any stress themselves.

[manselr]

The problem with taxing the rich, even if it makes sense to do so because like you said someone that has tons of millions is not going to notice a couple millions going into taxes, is that all those fortunes could leave the country you are taxing at. It's such an injustice, but fortunes rule everyone, both us and governments.

[bigtimespaghetti]

What makes you think that taxation of ship owners wouldn't benefit Greece in the long term?

Nothing the Greek government are doing right now is about benefiting the country in the long term, it's can kicking 101. That's what makes me think that. I find it hard to justify a 'fair tax' (what's fair means?) too unless it was paying for mooring/marina/canal maintenance and upkeep and I'm pretty sure that the ship owners are paying that already.
These wealthy ship owners are likely benefiting the local economies already by spending that wealth. If Greece taxes it now it's just going into the blackhole of debt servicing.

But judging by the tone of many on this thread, it seems to be largely populated by those intent on taxing the evil rich people which is too tiresome to bother arguing with. I will take my leave.

[GreenStox]

The problem with taxing the rich, even if it makes sense to do so because like you said someone that has tons of millions is not going to notice a couple millions going into taxes, is that all those fortunes could leave the country you are taxing at. It's such an injustice, but fortunes rule everyone, both us and governments.

And then after they left their companies will be nationalized, and that country will turn into a communist hellhole...

[manselr]

The problem with taxing the rich, even if it makes sense to do so because like you said someone that has tons of millions is not going to notice a couple millions going into taxes, is that all those fortunes could leave the country you are taxing at. It's such an injustice, but fortunes rule everyone, both us and governments.

And then after they left their companies will be nationalized, and that country will turn into a communist hellhole...

Thats why we need a global rich tax, which is a bit delusional, but actually the only solution, otherwise trying to tax the rich cunts of any country will be useless since the rich always have endless fiscal paradises out there for them to store their money at low taxes.

[tabnloz]

Good start may be to allow Greece to repay its loans without interest. Next week they have to pay 750 million in interest on a multi billion dollar debt. A few weeks back it was 200 million, so basically they've paid 1 billion euros in interest in this time. This is not to write off the debt, just suspend the interest payments to Eu financials and the IMF, who should stop acting like Wonga.

[GreenStox]

The problem with taxing the rich, even if it makes sense to do so because like you said someone that has tons of millions is not going to notice a couple millions going into taxes, is that all those fortunes could leave the country you are taxing at. It's such an injustice, but fortunes rule everyone, both us and governments.

And then after they left their companies will be nationalized, and that country will turn into a communist hellhole...

Thats why we need a global rich tax, which is a bit delusional, but actually the only solution, otherwise trying to tax the rich cunts of any country will be useless since the rich always have endless fiscal paradises out there for them to store their money at low taxes.

Thats a very naive idea. You cant tax the rich, not because they avoid taxes, but because it's impossible to do so for 2 reasons:

1) They bribe politicians
2) They will just pass the cost down to their employees or raise prices (the customer gets it)

How about we tax nobody?

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

The problem with taxing the rich, even if it makes sense to do so because like you said someone that has tons of millions is not going to notice a couple millions going into taxes, is that all those fortunes could leave the country you are taxing at. It's such an injustice, but fortunes rule everyone, both us and governments.

And then after they left their companies will be nationalized, and that country will turn into a communist hellhole...

Thats why we need a global rich tax, which is a bit delusional, but actually the only solution, otherwise trying to tax the rich cunts of any country will be useless since the rich always have endless fiscal paradises out there for them to store their money at low taxes.

Thats a very naive idea. You cant tax the rich, not because they avoid taxes, but because it's impossible to do so for 2 reasons:

1) They bribe politicians
2) They will just pass the cost down to their employees or raise prices (the customer gets it)

How about we tax nobody?

If nobody is taxed, who pays for welfare and whatnot for those that do truly need it and cannot afford it?

[bigtimespaghetti]

Good start may be to allow Greece to repay its loans without interest. Next week they have to pay 750 million in interest on a multi billion dollar debt. A few weeks back it was 200 million, so basically they've paid 1 billion euros in interest in this time. This is not to write off the debt, just suspend the interest payments to Eu financials and the IMF, who should stop acting like Wonga.

That creates the hazard of seeming a soft touch to the other screwed up indebted economies dependent on ECB largesse.

[tyz]

The debt payment timeline for Greece shows that it has to pay back billions of Euros over the next months. For the upcoming week Greece has to pay 750 mln to IMF. The party could be over next week.

http://graphics.wsj.com/greece-debt-timeline/

[manselr]

Past governments also made it this way that greek people out of borders couldn't vote. I even wonder how Syriza was elected with all these traps made from the previous government. And lot of propaganda from news.. every elections they were showing some immature stupid young people that were drinking coffees and didn't go to vote. They wouldn;t interview people that were really concerned about their country. And don't tell me that all these don't make a difference and don't tell me you expect all people to have critical thinking or be intellectual to overpass these obstacles.

[spazzdla]

Not a Communist, but since 1974, this looked like the 1st time, regular people wld have representation. Then the old boys explain to the new boys, they have no choice but to go along because it is their job to SAVE THE WORLD. The old boys will continue to do what they do best: DENY, DELUDE & DELAY. Meanwhile GR will continue to sink into an abyss.

You don't need to be a communist with taxing on the mega rich, it's just common sense. If someone has 500 million his bank account, his life quality is going to be exactly with same with 400, or even with 250. It's a joke that you are condemned to wageslaving while they could help a lot into making lifes less stressed without noticing any stress themselves.

They will just go else where.  The idea you can just raise the taxes on the rich and make money from them is amusing.

[GreenStox]

Not a Communist, but since 1974, this looked like the 1st time, regular people wld have representation. Then the old boys explain to the new boys, they have no choice but to go along because it is their job to SAVE THE WORLD. The old boys will continue to do what they do best: DENY, DELUDE & DELAY. Meanwhile GR will continue to sink into an abyss.

You don't need to be a communist with taxing on the mega rich, it's just common sense. If someone has 500 million his bank account, his life quality is going to be exactly with same with 400, or even with 250. It's a joke that you are condemned to wageslaving while they could help a lot into making lifes less stressed without noticing any stress themselves.

They will just go else where.  The idea you can just raise the taxes on the rich and make money from them is amusing.

Yep, its pretty childing thingking about taxing the rich.

Why do you want to tax anybody at all? Why do you want people to extort money from you, at the face of gunpoint or jail, that is what taxation is.

[BillyBobZorton]

Not a Communist, but since 1974, this looked like the 1st time, regular people wld have representation. Then the old boys explain to the new boys, they have no choice but to go along because it is their job to SAVE THE WORLD. The old boys will continue to do what they do best: DENY, DELUDE & DELAY. Meanwhile GR will continue to sink into an abyss.

You don't need to be a communist with taxing on the mega rich, it's just common sense. If someone has 500 million his bank account, his life quality is going to be exactly with same with 400, or even with 250. It's a joke that you are condemned to wageslaving while they could help a lot into making lifes less stressed without noticing any stress themselves.

They will just go else where.  The idea you can just raise the taxes on the rich and make money from them is amusing.

Yep, its pretty childing thingking about taxing the rich.

Why do you want to tax anybody at all? Why do you want people to extort money from you, at the face of gunpoint or jail, that is what taxation is.

Taxing sucks, but someone has to pay for the ones that cannot get any by themselves, that's life. And who is on the best position to deliver that? the stupid rich (anyone making more than 500K a year for example, should be taxed a bit more than the regular folk, and increasingly more if they make beyond that).

[tyz]

Greece will not default because the chance is very high that it becomes a failed state. And no one in the European Union and Eurozone is interested to have such a country in its union. Further, if Greece defaults it is becoming a backdoor for countries like Russia or China. So, keep cool, Greece will get all the money that wants