If Greece defaults

[GreenStox]

Ok Greece saved temporarly. (we will come back here in 6 months when the liquididy assistance ends)

Next in line: Italy.

So make a thread: If Italy defaults

i don't think so, they are repeating that they are not in the same dangerous zone as greece, and their unemployment rate is going to be reduced from 12.6% to 11.9% withing 2015, this on top of an already previous reduction from 13% to 12.4%

Well its impossible to create that many private companies in such short time so i guess the "jobs" created are government jobs.

Haha that will just add more to the misery, i mean if the debt is high, what you do? Hire more people to have an even higher spending budget

Besides government jobs are the worst grade, they guaranteed the minimum wage or average wage but are the worst quality: buraocrats, "inspectors" i call them mobsters, and different specialists (with bought diplomas) + nepotism.

C`mon this turd is so stinking that i`m almost fainting, government jobs will just add more gasoline to this fire and italy will have the same problem as greece does pretty soon 

[MarketNeutral]

A grand manifestation of the Broken Window Fallacy unfolds before our eyes. Amazing.

I'm surprised some cheeky Greek didn't start printing New Drachmas for the hell of it.

[GreenStox]

A grand manifestation of the Broken Window Fallacy unfolds before our eyes. Amazing.

I'm surprised some cheeky Greek didn't start printing New Drachmas for the hell of it.

Definitely, the government creates all social, economic and every other problem in our lives.

And then it poses as the messiah, saviour, the angel, that will repair /fix /resolve anything.


They destroyed the whole economy and now every sheep is looking towards them to save them.

[n2004al]

Ok Greece saved temporarly. (we will come back here in 6 months when the liquididy assistance ends)

Next in line: Italy.

So make a thread: If Italy defaults

i don't think so, they are repeating that they are not in the same dangerous zone as greece, and their unemployment rate is going to be reduced from 12.6% to 11.9% withing 2015, this on top of an already previous reduction from 13% to 12.4%

Perhaps but they are considered relatively uncompetitive since joining the Eurozone and have felt the pain
They might be interested in leaving but we will see for now.

It is very, very improbable that Italy leave Eurozone. It is one the founder states of Eurozone and it is a very different country if we can compare it with Greece. The people too is very different. Italy has a very developed economy (industry and agriculture), have very good exports and has to many interior resources. There are difficulties but not so important to put in discussion the leaving of this country from EU. It is another problem if they do a referendum and the people choose to go out.

[Amph]

A grand manifestation of the Broken Window Fallacy unfolds before our eyes. Amazing.

I'm surprised some cheeky Greek didn't start printing New Drachmas for the hell of it.

they would print useless toilet papaer, even more useless than current fiat, because they would come with zero value

i don't know how it work with old fiat currency that are off course, but you can't simply start printing again with the same value as when you stopped

[tyz]

This behaviour is absolutely paradoxic. Generations of behavioral scientists will have a new test case for research activities

A grand manifestation of the Broken Window Fallacy unfolds before our eyes. Amazing.

I'm surprised some cheeky Greek didn't start printing New Drachmas for the hell of it.

Definitely, the government creates all social, economic and every other problem in our lives.

And then it poses as the messiah, saviour, the angel, that will repair /fix /resolve anything.


They destroyed the whole economy and now every sheep is looking towards them to save them.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Clarke and Dawe - The Greek Economy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK0De210TBQ


from 2011....

[botany]

A grand manifestation of the Broken Window Fallacy unfolds before our eyes. Amazing.

I'm surprised some cheeky Greek didn't start printing New Drachmas for the hell of it.

Definitely, the government creates all social, economic and every other problem in our lives.
And then it poses as the messiah, saviour, the angel, that will repair /fix /resolve anything.
They destroyed the whole economy and now every sheep is looking towards them to save them.

They are the only ones who can.
Parties get voted out of power and new ones come in.
They can always say Government X created the problems, and we are working hard to solve them. This spiel works with the people.

[n2004al]

This behaviour is absolutely paradoxic. Generations of behavioral scientists will have a new test case for research activities

A grand manifestation of the Broken Window Fallacy unfolds before our eyes. Amazing.

I'm surprised some cheeky Greek didn't start printing New Drachmas for the hell of it.

Definitely, the government creates all social, economic and every other problem in our lives.

And then it poses as the messiah, saviour, the angel, that will repair /fix /resolve anything.


They destroyed the whole economy and now every sheep is looking towards them to save them.

That depends. There are governments that do their work diligently and with great results. I can remember here the USA government at the time of Clinton or the last governments of Germany. The results of those governments in the economy of the respectives countries and for their people were (are) very impressive.

[dinofelis]

The problem is, above all else, an accounting problem, a significant factor of which is Greece's demographically imbalanced and fiscally strained labor force. This deal or that deal may be reached between Greece and its creditors, and deals may be broken, but the problem will not be fully rectified until Greece's demographics improve, which may take many years.

This could be accelerated if there happened a great famine, which would exterminate half of the population.  Then the economy could start up again.  (like during the 13th century in Europe, when the Plague decimated the population, and as a result of that, economy boosted).

[bryant.coleman]

This could be accelerated if there happened a great famine, which would exterminate half of the population.  Then the economy could start up again.  (like during the 13th century in Europe, when the Plague decimated the population, and as a result of that, economy boosted).

Do you think that killing half the population will solve the problem? I doubt that. The birth rate has nosedived after the crisis started in Greece. And the death rate is going up steeply. And this means that in the future, there will be too many pensioners, and too few tax payers. Close to a million Greeks of working age has fled the country. The government should encourage them to move back to Greece, if they want to improve the tax collections.

[GreenStox]

A grand manifestation of the Broken Window Fallacy unfolds before our eyes. Amazing.

I'm surprised some cheeky Greek didn't start printing New Drachmas for the hell of it.

Definitely, the government creates all social, economic and every other problem in our lives.
And then it poses as the messiah, saviour, the angel, that will repair /fix /resolve anything.
They destroyed the whole economy and now every sheep is looking towards them to save them.

They are the only ones who can.
Parties get voted out of power and new ones come in.
They can always say Government X created the problems, and we are working hard to solve them. This spiel works with the people.

Yep it's always Government X,Y,Z is the problem but never "Government" itself as the institution that it is.

[qiwoman2]

This could be accelerated if there happened a great famine, which would exterminate half of the population.  Then the economy could start up again.  (like during the 13th century in Europe, when the Plague decimated the population, and as a result of that, economy boosted).

Do you think that killing half the population will solve the problem? I doubt that. The birth rate has nosedived after the crisis started in Greece. And the death rate is going up steeply. And this means that in the future, there will be too many pensioners, and too few tax payers. Close to a million Greeks of working age has fled the country. The government should encourage them to move back to Greece, if they want to improve the tax collections.

Yeap the tax evasion by the big guns is on the Agenda so we hope that the Government can at last implement tax reform and go after those that helped Sink Greece to it's knees..If they really love their country they should be injecting cash into rebuilding it but with another 60,000 companies asking to relocate to Bulgaria to do business, looks like Greeks are not so patriotic as they try to show when going on the streets to protest..Unfortunately Greece needs some stropping patriotism at this time and I am not talking about Golden Dawn style of nationalism either.. I am talking about people who will put money and sweat on the table to rebuild the country and get it going again.. The cow has no more milk to be milked.

[GreenStox]

This could be accelerated if there happened a great famine, which would exterminate half of the population.  Then the economy could start up again.  (like during the 13th century in Europe, when the Plague decimated the population, and as a result of that, economy boosted).

Do you think that killing half the population will solve the problem? I doubt that. The birth rate has nosedived after the crisis started in Greece. And the death rate is going up steeply. And this means that in the future, there will be too many pensioners, and too few tax payers. Close to a million Greeks of working age has fled the country. The government should encourage them to move back to Greece, if they want to improve the tax collections.

Yeap the tax evasion by the big guns is on the Agenda so we hope that the Government can at last implement tax reform and go after those that helped Sink Greece to it's knees..If they really love their country they should be injecting cash into rebuilding it but with another 60,000 companies asking to relocate to Bulgaria to do business, looks like Greeks are not so patriotic as they try to show when going on the streets to protest..Unfortunately Greece needs some stropping patriotism at this time and I am not talking about Golden Dawn style of nationalism either.. I am talking about people who will put money and sweat on the table to rebuild the country and get it going again.. The cow has no more milk to be milked.

Folks all the tax money went to politician purses what do you expect?

Milk 60-70-80-90-99% tax off from poor people, just so that a few politicians grab it?

Nah i rather just lower the tax rates to the healthy 3-5% like in hong kong.

You cannot fucking build an economy at 99% rates, and you are wondering why they leave to bulgaria or macedonia... unbeliavalble.

All the tax money milked from us and now you say its our fault fuck it! (i`m not greek but i sympathize with hard working businessman in greece)

[eerygarden]

This could be accelerated if there happened a great famine, which would exterminate half of the population.  Then the economy could start up again.  (like during the 13th century in Europe, when the Plague decimated the population, and as a result of that, economy boosted).

Do you think that killing half the population will solve the problem? I doubt that. The birth rate has nosedived after the crisis started in Greece. And the death rate is going up steeply. And this means that in the future, there will be too many pensioners, and too few tax payers. Close to a million Greeks of working age has fled the country. The government should encourage them to move back to Greece, if they want to improve the tax collections.

Yeap the tax evasion by the big guns is on the Agenda so we hope that the Government can at last implement tax reform and go after those that helped Sink Greece to it's knees..If they really love their country they should be injecting cash into rebuilding it but with another 60,000 companies asking to relocate to Bulgaria to do business, looks like Greeks are not so patriotic as they try to show when going on the streets to protest..Unfortunately Greece needs some stropping patriotism at this time and I am not talking about Golden Dawn style of nationalism either.. I am talking about people who will put money and sweat on the table to rebuild the country and get it going again.. The cow has no more milk to be milked.

Patriotism seems foolish to me. You get a leader who you didn't pick, do not admire, do not respect, who is faced with an impossible mathematics problem. He makes demands upon you with threats if you do not deliver. And why? Because you speak with an accent that brands you to a specific geolocation on the planet? Because your education teaches you to be proud of the history our ancestors branded to the same geolocation as us went through?

Well it works and I am not immune from it, but logic tells me it is foolish.

For instance I love the story that the two finger display of defiance by Brits, commonly interpreted as, "fuck off", originated as a sign of British prisoners of war towards their French captors in order to remind them that they still have both of their bow fingers and that they are still a threat. This really strikes an emotional chord with me, but is it foolish? Food for thought.

[GreenStox]

This could be accelerated if there happened a great famine, which would exterminate half of the population.  Then the economy could start up again.  (like during the 13th century in Europe, when the Plague decimated the population, and as a result of that, economy boosted).

Do you think that killing half the population will solve the problem? I doubt that. The birth rate has nosedived after the crisis started in Greece. And the death rate is going up steeply. And this means that in the future, there will be too many pensioners, and too few tax payers. Close to a million Greeks of working age has fled the country. The government should encourage them to move back to Greece, if they want to improve the tax collections.

Yeap the tax evasion by the big guns is on the Agenda so we hope that the Government can at last implement tax reform and go after those that helped Sink Greece to it's knees..If they really love their country they should be injecting cash into rebuilding it but with another 60,000 companies asking to relocate to Bulgaria to do business, looks like Greeks are not so patriotic as they try to show when going on the streets to protest..Unfortunately Greece needs some stropping patriotism at this time and I am not talking about Golden Dawn style of nationalism either.. I am talking about people who will put money and sweat on the table to rebuild the country and get it going again.. The cow has no more milk to be milked.

Patriotism seems foolish to me. You get a leader who you didn't pick, do not admire, do not respect, who is faced with an impossible mathematics problem. He makes demands upon you with threats if you do not deliver. And why? Because you speak with an accent that brands you to a specific geolocation on the planet? Because your education teaches you to be proud of the history our ancestors branded to the same geolocation as us went through?

Well it works and I am not immune from it, but logic tells me it is foolish.

For instance I love the story that the two finger display of defiance by Brits, commonly interpreted as, "fuck off", originated as a sign of British prisoners of war towards their French captors in order to remind them that they still have both of their bow fingers and that they are still a threat. This really strikes an emotional chord with me, but is it foolish? Food for thought.

Exactly, i cannot agree more with you.

But there is a stupid human genetic instinct of affinity to the tribe. Certain humans have a loyalty to their surroundings: city, county, country, so it's obvious that patriots will always exist.


But there is nothing wrong with patriotism as long as it doesnt turn into racist/xenophobe/minority hater nationalism.

Of course politicians always use hegelian dialectic to fool the 50 IQ voting sheeps and control them, rob them and make their lives miserable.

[dinofelis]

This could be accelerated if there happened a great famine, which would exterminate half of the population.  Then the economy could start up again.  (like during the 13th century in Europe, when the Plague decimated the population, and as a result of that, economy boosted).

Do you think that killing half the population will solve the problem? I doubt that. The birth rate has nosedived after the crisis started in Greece. And the death rate is going up steeply. And this means that in the future, there will be too many pensioners, and too few tax payers. Close to a million Greeks of working age has fled the country. The government should encourage them to move back to Greece, if they want to improve the tax collections.

If the pensioners cannot get their pension any more, they will starve, and that problem is then solved, no ?
Once there are no elderly and other non producers depending on impossible state expenses any more, because stopping the state expenses for them made them starve to death, the expenses of the state would be seriously reduced no ?  Which means that the taxes are not necessary any more, and productive people can start over building up a fruitful economy. 
What makes you think it will be the young that will die of famine ?  The young are doing the right thing: go to a better place !

[eerygarden]

If the pensioners cannot get their pension any more, they will starve, and that problem is then solved, no ?
Once there are no elderly and other non producers depending on impossible state expenses any more, because stopping the state expenses for them made them starve to death, the expenses of the state would be seriously reduced no ?  Which means that the taxes are not necessary any more, and productive people can start over building up a fruitful economy. 
What makes you think it will be the young that will die of famine ?  The young are doing the right thing: go to a better place !

Perhaps, but it is not human nature to allow their elders to suffer to such extremes.

[Amph]

Once again this debt will never be paid, they are just buying time. As a sovereign state Greece has the ability to cancel any of this whenever they like. It's not done until the collateral is sold and Greece accepts it. At the first sign of the inevitable Greek backpedaling this agreement is over and Greece is once more in crisis mode.

how come they give to them funds for 3 years then? even if the agreement is over they would still have those funds, which are 80B btw, they can not covert(which is 350B http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/greece) their debt but in the worst case they could restart from zero without problem

[g1974ak]

Once again this debt will never be paid, they are just buying time. As a sovereign state Greece has the ability to cancel any of this whenever they like. It's not done until the collateral is sold and Greece accepts it. At the first sign of the inevitable Greek backpedaling this agreement is over and Greece is once more in crisis mode.

Greece will continue to be in crisis mode even with the last help in money. IMF told that without a reconstruction of the debt the Greece will not be able to pay his debt. So all the other credits given by everyone will facilitate the situation but never will resolve that. The problem is that Tsipras with his politic and demagogie in all that 5-6 months in power are deteriorated badly the economic situation and the needed credits or helps must be more consistent and must serious. No one can predict how will finish this situation. There are to many imprevedible conditions that can happen. Let's hope that the consequences don't fall to the most poor people.