Government & Bitcoin

[arallmuus]

we can help ourselves like we already do, by buying weapons for themselves and protect our house, yeah it might become a far old west but there is nothing else you can do, police are not that efficient either, and they sometime abuse their power...

you see you can't live in a perfect world no matter if you have a government or not

Even in the old west there is a goverment to ensure that everyone could live a safe life . There is no guarantee of course people will live a happy life but it will be an insurance that someone may live a better life since everything will be more socialized than without the goverment

What do you define as a criminal?  The government has made drugs illegal, so it has evolved into a worldwide black market with conflict resolution coming from violence.  It is government policy that has created the violence and "criminals" who are put into jail without having a victim.  Which wars would take place without government?

Criminals are those who conduct things outside of the law. It is a fact that most goverment are corrupt and of course the policy created more criminals because some people just cant stand to be ruled with the silly rules but ofcourse a country without a goverment will not be a better places than those with goverment

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[Erdogan]

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

I think the fundamental question is: Without the government people, who will protect us from the other people, just like them, who will tax, confiscate and kill us?

[Dotakels]

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

I think the fundamental question is: Without the government people, who will protect us from the other people, just like them, who will tax, confiscate and kill us?

You just only specific my idea. But we are talking about government not the government people. Now? you know what is the importance of the government? Even if they corrupt us or steal our money we need them.

[Erdogan]

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

I think the fundamental question is: Without the government people, who will protect us from the other people, just like them, who will tax, confiscate and kill us?

You just only specific my idea. But we are talking about government not the government people. Now? you know what is the importance of the government? Even if they corrupt us or steal our money we need them.

Yes, we also need them to confuse us about the purpose of government, and to tell us that the alternative government people out there (IS, Russia) are worse.

[Dotakels]

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

I think the fundamental question is: Without the government people, who will protect us from the other people, just like them, who will tax, confiscate and kill us?

You just only specific my idea. But we are talking about government not the government people. Now? you know what is the importance of the government? Even if they corrupt us or steal our money we need them.

Yes, we also need them to confuse us about the purpose of government, and to tell us that the alternative government people out there (IS, Russia) are worse.

We don't confused them, we just only explained to them the importance of government. And the benifits that they get if there are government. The advantage of a country that have a government. even if i say it that we need a government, i am not a government supporter or believer because i know what they are doing .

[wearepoor]

I don't think that government and bitcoin can travel in a same boat.. "NEVER"

Everyone is aware that what government as done so far for the betterment of country and society. They are just busy in filling their own pockets with black money and scandal and scams if they start supporting bitcoin then it would end all their corrupted activities.

[dinofelis]

You just only specific my idea. But we are talking about government not the government people. Now? you know what is the importance of the government? Even if they corrupt us or steal our money we need them.

I think that what you want to say, is that a violence monopolist is inevitable, because if there isn't one, it's an opportunity for just any thug to become the violence monopolist.  So no violence monopolist is a totally unstable situation, where that vacuum will make one appear.

As such, a violence monopolist is an inevitable burden.  

Yes.

I think the next best thing to do, is to get that violence monopolist to be as much limited in its prerogatives as possible.  If it could JUST limit itself to stop others from being violent, that would be the best.  Which is not an easy thing to do, because given that it is the violence monopolist, it will of course want to maximize its prerogatives, to serve itself in goods, services, and satisfaction by dominance (which, in its ultimate stage, is going to war and wanting you as a soldier).

I would also like to point out that there's no such thing as "government" without government people.  Only people are sentient beings that can make decisions.  Abstract collections of people, such as "government", are not sentient, deciding entities by themselves.  We use these terms to abstract and simplify discussions.  But "government" is nothing else but a bunch of people with prerogatives and privileges.

[freeyourmind]

What do you define as a criminal?  The government has made drugs illegal, so it has evolved into a worldwide black market with conflict resolution coming from violence.  It is government policy that has created the violence and "criminals" who are put into jail without having a victim.  Which wars would take place without government?

Criminals are those who conduct things outside of the law. It is a fact that most goverment are corrupt and of course the policy created more criminals because some people just cant stand to be ruled with the silly rules but ofcourse a country without a goverment will not be a better places than those with goverment

So if a criminal is defined as someone that breaks a law, then everyone is a criminal right?  But more importantly, what is the basis of the law?  Moral integrity?  No not really.  There are several crimes to which there is no victim, yet there is unusually harsh punishment.  So really that is just a law taking away civil liberty (gambling, consenting prostitution, illicit drugs, gay marriage) partly due to the lack of separation between church and state and partly because of the profit incentive.  At what point does civil liberty become priority vs. implementing restrictions to which there is no benefit?

Another problem is that the government creates laws and then polices or enforces the laws.  But who polices the police?

Countries with large, small or no government can all be good places to live.  If the government is benevolent, then it's good, but I don't see many realistic examples of that.  And in that case, smaller government is better.  No technological solutions, innovation or evolution (which are really the only solutions) comes from government.  It's the only place where you can be treated like shit and still have no choice but to do business with them.  I'm not saying that's always the case, but it is definitely the case sometimes.  Any private organization run like the government would go bankrupt.

[Erdogan]

I have been reading some economic history from the viewpoint of precious metals lately, and it seems governments have always been dependent on looting the money systems, even in the gold money times - plundering historic gold, pirating, and monopolizing mines directly or indirectly, like the spanish control of the south american mines through mercury, which was used in the refining process.

Bitcoin can change all that.

[dinofelis]

I have been reading some economic history from the viewpoint of precious metals lately, and it seems governments have always been dependent on looting the money systems, even in the gold money times - plundering historic gold, pirating, and monopolizing mines directly or indirectly, like the spanish control of the south american mines through mercury, which was used in the refining process.

Indeed.  Actually, Graeber is a great read, even if you don't agree with his conclusions (as I don't): his historical account is very eye-opening. Even the putting in circulation of gold and silver money was mainly an act of government, in order for it to pay soldiers with it.  If you acquire mines with military force, you use local population as slaves in the mines, then that's nothing else but a more burdensome way of "printing money" to get seigniorage, if you have imposed precious metals as money earlier on.

[Erdogan]

I have been reading some economic history from the viewpoint of precious metals lately, and it seems governments have always been dependent on looting the money systems, even in the gold money times - plundering historic gold, pirating, and monopolizing mines directly or indirectly, like the spanish control of the south american mines through mercury, which was used in the refining process.

Indeed.  Actually, Graeber is a great read, even if you don't agree with his conclusions (as I don't): his historical account is very eye-opening. Even the putting in circulation of gold and silver money was mainly an act of government, in order for it to pay soldiers with it.  If you acquire mines with military force, you use local population as slaves in the mines, then that's nothing else but a more burdensome way of "printing money" to get seigniorage, if you have imposed precious metals as money earlier on.

I read half his book. Maybe I take it on again sometime.

[arallmuus]

What do you define as a criminal?  The government has made drugs illegal, so it has evolved into a worldwide black market with conflict resolution coming from violence.  It is government policy that has created the violence and "criminals" who are put into jail without having a victim.  Which wars would take place without government?

Criminals are those who conduct things outside of the law. It is a fact that most goverment are corrupt and of course the policy created more criminals because some people just cant stand to be ruled with the silly rules but ofcourse a country without a goverment will not be a better places than those with goverment

So if a criminal is defined as someone that breaks a law, then everyone is a criminal right?  But more importantly, what is the basis of the law?  Moral integrity?  No not really.  There are several crimes to which there is no victim, yet there is unusually harsh punishment.  So really that is just a law taking away civil liberty (gambling, consenting prostitution, illicit drugs, gay marriage) partly due to the lack of separation between church and state and partly because of the profit incentive.  At what point does civil liberty become priority vs. implementing restrictions to which there is no benefit?

Another problem is that the government creates laws and then polices or enforces the laws.  But who polices the police?

Countries with large, small or no government can all be good places to live.  If the government is benevolent, then it's good, but I don't see many realistic examples of that.  And in that case, smaller government is better.  No technological solutions, innovation or evolution (which are really the only solutions) comes from government.  It's the only place where you can be treated like shit and still have no choice but to do business with them.  I'm not saying that's always the case, but it is definitely the case sometimes.  Any private organization run like the government would go bankrupt.

The basis for a law will be the human rights especially about everyone deserve to live and life. Goverment controls the law and alter it to match the current condition in which case is your example about gambling where someone is deemed guilty but there is no victim to it. I would say that actually it depends on the goverment, in some countries gambling is legal and even protected i.e Macau

I should state explicitly actually if you break the laws and you are not found out than you will not be treated as a criminal ( broken society logic here).

I do agree that even without goverment, a place could be a good place to live as well but the fact that there will be always a goverment within the society. Human are in natural wants to lead, thus this create ruler that evolve into goverment.

[Erdogan]

Gambling is a profitable industry, specially when it is monopolized. That is why goverments gravitate into gambling. Gambling is allowed in all countries, it is just the degree of free market gambling that is different. Sometimes the government wants it all.

I don't think being a slave is the natural human condition. The historical era of enlightenment showed that the ideas can change. We could have a second enlightenment, elevating the freedom a notch. It is conceivable, and it is not impossible.

[arallmuus]

Gambling is a profitable industry, specially when it is monopolized. That is why goverments gravitate into gambling. Gambling is allowed in all countries, it is just the degree of free market gambling that is different. Sometimes the government wants it all.

Not in all countries. In most part of the Asia I believe that it is illegal especially in the middle east countries and/or in the country where the Religion law is strong enough . Though there are alot of illegal gambling activites in such countries but if the legal feds finds out who operate it, the operator would be charge with fine and prison sentences . In some countries however ( like you stated, especially the west side ), the goverment legalized gambling and got a income in form of tax from it

[Dotakels]

Gambling is a profitable industry, specially when it is monopolized. That is why goverments gravitate into gambling. Gambling is allowed in all countries, it is just the degree of free market gambling that is different. Sometimes the government wants it all.

Not in all countries. In most part of the Asia I believe that it is illegal especially in the middle east countries and/or in the country where the Religion law is strong enough . Though there are alot of illegal gambling activites in such countries but if the legal feds finds out who operate it, the operator would be charge with fine and prison sentences . In some countries however ( like you stated, especially the west side ), the goverment legalized gambling and got a income in form of tax from it

Most of the countries that are legal to gambling is in the country that have a democracy government, because its a free country and you can do what you want and their law are not strong so that foreigner went to that country and they just do a wrong thing and make a money and not having any doubts that they will caught because they know that , the law of that country are weak. LIKE  PHILIPPINES.

[tyz]

Related to the topic, an interesting project idea came to my mind. Someone who is able to do it should create a world map that shows which countries are accepted Bitcoin, countries which banned Bitcoin and countries which have not come to an official decision yet.

[Dotakels]

Related to the topic, an interesting project idea came to my mind. Someone who is able to do it should create a world map that shows which countries are accepted Bitcoin, countries which banned Bitcoin and countries which have not come to an official decision yet.

Yeah i think its right, if they do that we all know what country we are going or giving a sympathy to introduce bitcoin and also how using it. It may help to raise the price of bitcoin.

[maheshmahi]

Do government oppose bitcoin community....

[BTCevo]

Gambling is a profitable industry, specially when it is monopolized. That is why goverments gravitate into gambling. Gambling is allowed in all countries, it is just the degree of free market gambling that is different. Sometimes the government wants it all.

Not in all countries. In most part of the Asia I believe that it is illegal especially in the middle east countries and/or in the country where the Religion law is strong enough . Though there are alot of illegal gambling activites in such countries but if the legal feds finds out who operate it, the operator would be charge with fine and prison sentences . In some countries however ( like you stated, especially the west side ), the goverment legalized gambling and got a income in form of tax from it

Most of the countries that are legal to gambling is in the country that have a democracy government, because its a free country and you can do what you want and their law are not strong so that foreigner went to that country and they just do a wrong thing and make a money and not having any doubts that they will caught because they know that , the law of that country are weak. LIKE  PHILIPPINES.

I dont think so, my country is a democracy country but about gambling things it is illegal and guarded strictly. if some of them get caught do gambling or even just a game, we will directly go into station to be interrogated and may be you will be jailed for some days, but still there are many people out there in my country do gambling but need to do it secretly to make sure not get caught

[arallmuus]

Gambling is a profitable industry, specially when it is monopolized. That is why goverments gravitate into gambling. Gambling is allowed in all countries, it is just the degree of free market gambling that is different. Sometimes the government wants it all.

Not in all countries. In most part of the Asia I believe that it is illegal especially in the middle east countries and/or in the country where the Religion law is strong enough . Though there are alot of illegal gambling activites in such countries but if the legal feds finds out who operate it, the operator would be charge with fine and prison sentences . In some countries however ( like you stated, especially the west side ), the goverment legalized gambling and got a income in form of tax from it

Most of the countries that are legal to gambling is in the country that have a democracy government, because its a free country and you can do what you want and their law are not strong so that foreigner went to that country and they just do a wrong thing and make a money and not having any doubts that they will caught because they know that , the law of that country are weak. LIKE  PHILIPPINES.

Your logic got some flaw and you might want to take a quick snap at google for the word "democracy". Democracy doesnt mean that you can do whatever you want. It actually mean that you are free to choose who to govern you. Instead law in democracy country is strong and based on "not guilty until it is proven". Also democracy means that the highest power is from the people

Do government oppose bitcoin community....

Bitcoin community? NO. Oppose bitcoin then Not for the moment either. Cant be sure about it in the future

Related to the topic, an interesting project idea came to my mind. Someone who is able to do it should create a world map that shows which countries are accepted Bitcoin, countries which banned Bitcoin and countries which have not come to an official decision yet.

Perhaps you should post this instead in bitcoin discussion since it suits there more. Country that have accepted BTC could be mark with the same colour

P.S : interesting idea indeed