Kraken Accepting MtGox Bankruptcy Claims

[WhatTheGox]

You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

So i lost 30 bitcoins in gox, if i claim via kraken i'll get approx 6 bitcoins - 20%

If i claim via option 1 i will get 6 x $483 but in yen?   i dont understand how 1 way can pay me twice as much?

[cryptokia]

kraken rox

[NUFCrichard]

You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

So i lost 30 bitcoins in gox, if i claim via kraken i'll get approx 6 bitcoins - 20%

If i claim via option 1 i will get 6 x $483 but in yen?   i dont understand how 1 way can pay me twice as much?

As I understand it, they will refund in Bitcoin, if that is possible and allowed.
If they can't refund in bitcoin for legal reasons, then they will refund in cash.  They have given BTC a cash value from a certain time point, but there is still only so much money to go around.

I would guess that we would either receive 25% back in bitcoin, or 12.5% in cash (assuming the value of Bitcoin stays where it is now)

[Amph]

You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

So i lost 30 bitcoins in gox, if i claim via kraken i'll get approx 6 bitcoins - 20%

If i claim via option 1 i will get 6 x $483 but in yen?   i dont understand how 1 way can pay me twice as much?

As I understand it, they will refund in Bitcoin, if that is possible and allowed.
If they can't refund in bitcoin for legal reasons, then they will refund in cash.  They have given BTC a cash value from a certain time point, but there is still only so much money to go around.

I would guess that we would either receive 25% back in bitcoin, or 12.5% in cash (assuming the value of Bitcoin stays where it is now)

25% back in bitcoin, with a value of 483 is like 50% in bitcoin with the current value, not bad i guess, or i'm missing something and the % is referring to the value in cash?

[minerpumpkin]

You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

The thing is I remember people saying that they are trying to return the coins as they are. I don't think that the market capitalization is high enough to liquidate all the coins. If they really liquidate everything there wouldn't be enough to pay back creditors.

[WhatTheGox]

You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

So i lost 30 bitcoins in gox, if i claim via kraken i'll get approx 6 bitcoins - 20%

If i claim via option 1 i will get 6 x $483 but in yen?   i dont understand how 1 way can pay me twice as much?

As I understand it, they will refund in Bitcoin, if that is possible and allowed.
If they can't refund in bitcoin for legal reasons, then they will refund in cash.  They have given BTC a cash value from a certain time point, but there is still only so much money to go around.

I would guess that we would either receive 25% back in bitcoin, or 12.5% in cash (assuming the value of Bitcoin stays where it is now)

They never sold the bitcoin yet so im actually a little confused at how any option could be a better deal other than how they go about making the payments, maybe Nagle can explain further?

[lolofromuk]

Hello everybody,

Like all of you i received the information about the possibility to fill a claim.

I personally prefer the option to not use Kraken, there is absolutly no guarantee anyways to retrieve anything and it is clearly stated that if anything happens with Kraken you wont be able to claim anything back.

In other words your last chance to retrieve any bitcoins or cash disapear.

So i went on the process to fill the form not using kraken, i am wonderring if any of you tried that option and what happened as for me i filled all information and at the bottom of the page i was up to do the last click to send the form and, surprise...

http://prntscr.com/6xyntn

The submit button do not work ... what a bad joke

If anybody could confirm me that it is the same for you...

[Nagle]

The thing is I remember people saying that they are trying to return the coins as they are. I don't think that the market capitalization is high enough to liquidate all the coins. If they really liquidate everything there wouldn't be enough to pay back creditors.

Of course there won't be enough. Otherwise Mt. Gox wouldn't be bankrupt.

The general idea is that the bankruptcy trustee accepts claims and adds them up. For this purpose, all claims are converted to yen as 1 Bitcoin = USD483 = JPY50,058.12, the exchange rates on the day the bankruptcy commenced.  The claims are added up. Then the trustee adds up what they can get for all the assets that are left. Total claims / total assets yields the fraction at which claims will be paid.

You might be able to ask to be paid in Bitcoins, but if you get some Bitcoins, the conversion price will be as of the date of the distribution, not the date of the bankruptcy, so it won't matter.

For a sense of how this works in practice in the US, see http://www.madoffrecovery.com. Japan isn't as transparent, but takes basically the same approach.

[WhatTheGox]

The thing is I remember people saying that they are trying to return the coins as they are. I don't think that the market capitalization is high enough to liquidate all the coins. If they really liquidate everything there wouldn't be enough to pay back creditors.

Of course there won't be enough. Otherwise Mt. Gox wouldn't be bankrupt.

The general idea is that the bankruptcy trustee accepts claims and adds them up. For this purpose, all claims are converted to yen as 1 Bitcoin = USD483 = JPY50,058.12, the exchange rates on the day the bankruptcy commenced.  The claims are added up. Then the trustee adds up what they can get for all the assets that are left. Total claims / total assets yields the fraction at which claims will be paid.

You might be able to ask to be paid in Bitcoins, but if you get some Bitcoins, the conversion price will be as of the date of the distribution, not the date of the bankruptcy, so it won't matter.

For a sense of how this works in practice in the US, see http://www.madoffrecovery.com. Japan isn't as transparent, but takes basically the same approach.

If you get paid in bitcoins it makes it easier vs yen which you'd probably have to convert at your bank via a cheque in the mail?  will read the site but im still confused on what option to pick.

kraken will pay the same as any other claim option true or false?

[EternalWingsofGod]

It is said that mtgox customers will get around 20% of his balance at the moment of the closure, but I can't see a clear statement about the cypher from kraken

In a sense even the leveraged users who were up to 10 to 1 on a gox coin are at a loss fiat wise
That said I was not keeping track on how they are paying this out if it was in Bitcoins then a gain was held still a terrible deal for most holders at least they got something back though.

[UsernameBitcoin]

Hello everybody,
Like all of you i received the information about the possibility to fill a claim.
I personally prefer the option to not use Kraken, there is absolutly no guarantee anyways to retrieve anything and it is clearly stated that if anything happens with Kraken you wont be able to claim anything back.
In other words your last chance to retrieve any bitcoins or cash disapear.
So i went on the process to fill the form not using kraken, i am wonderring if any of you tried that option and what happened as for me i filled all information and at the bottom of the page i was up to do the last click to send the form and, surprise...
http://prntscr.com/6xyntn
The submit button do not work ... what a bad joke
If anybody could confirm me that it is the same for you...

I use kraken to trade Bitcoins for some time now and personally, I do trust them. There's really no reason to believe otherwise. Even if kraken stops doing business, it doesn't mean the mtgox case vanishes. Why? The case is still dealt with by Japanese authorities. Kraken is just like a service partner, consultant, whatever.
Actually, I'm glad that there's an established company who takes care of it. They might take their cut, or they do this for marketing reason, I don't know, and I don't care.
For me it just makes the whole process so much easier. It took me 5 minutes to fill out the form. Submit button worked fine for me.
Now, I only need to wait for an email from kraken. Or a bank/bitcoin transaction.
I don't have to check some announcements everyday and be worried about missing some deadline. I also don't need to get in touch with some Japanese authorities or whomever if kraken didn't take care of it. Until then, thanks kraken.

[NUFCrichard]

Hello everybody,
Like all of you i received the information about the possibility to fill a claim.
I personally prefer the option to not use Kraken, there is absolutly no guarantee anyways to retrieve anything and it is clearly stated that if anything happens with Kraken you wont be able to claim anything back.
In other words your last chance to retrieve any bitcoins or cash disapear.
So i went on the process to fill the form not using kraken, i am wonderring if any of you tried that option and what happened as for me i filled all information and at the bottom of the page i was up to do the last click to send the form and, surprise...
http://prntscr.com/6xyntn
The submit button do not work ... what a bad joke
If anybody could confirm me that it is the same for you...

I use kraken to trade Bitcoins for some time now and personally, I do trust them. There's really no reason to believe otherwise. Even if kraken stops doing business, it doesn't mean the mtgox case vanishes. Why? The case is still dealt with by Japanese authorities. Kraken is just like a service partner, consultant, whatever.
Actually, I'm glad that there's an established company who takes care of it. They might take their cut, or they do this for marketing reason, I don't know, and I don't care.
For me it just makes the whole process so much easier. It took me 5 minutes to fill out the form. Submit button worked fine for me.
Now, I only need to wait for an email from kraken. Or a bank/bitcoin transaction.
I don't have to check some announcements everyday and be worried about missing some deadline. I also don't need to get in touch with some Japanese authorities or whomever if kraken didn't take care of it. Until then, thanks kraken.

If they have been appointed by a Japanese court, they must be pretty legit!  A court couldn't appoint someone who then rips off the customers who need to be re-imbursed as far as is possible.
The claim system worked fine for me, all buttons worked in google chrome on windows.

I will wait, but not with baited breath for when a refund happens.  I will be interested to see what form it is in, I didn't have a lot of money in my account, I would probably lose a good % if they send me a yen denominated cheque!

[WhatTheGox]

Hello everybody,
Like all of you i received the information about the possibility to fill a claim.
I personally prefer the option to not use Kraken, there is absolutly no guarantee anyways to retrieve anything and it is clearly stated that if anything happens with Kraken you wont be able to claim anything back.
In other words your last chance to retrieve any bitcoins or cash disapear.
So i went on the process to fill the form not using kraken, i am wonderring if any of you tried that option and what happened as for me i filled all information and at the bottom of the page i was up to do the last click to send the form and, surprise...
http://prntscr.com/6xyntn
The submit button do not work ... what a bad joke
If anybody could confirm me that it is the same for you...

I use kraken to trade Bitcoins for some time now and personally, I do trust them. There's really no reason to believe otherwise. Even if kraken stops doing business, it doesn't mean the mtgox case vanishes. Why? The case is still dealt with by Japanese authorities. Kraken is just like a service partner, consultant, whatever.
Actually, I'm glad that there's an established company who takes care of it. They might take their cut, or they do this for marketing reason, I don't know, and I don't care.
For me it just makes the whole process so much easier. It took me 5 minutes to fill out the form. Submit button worked fine for me.
Now, I only need to wait for an email from kraken. Or a bank/bitcoin transaction.
I don't have to check some announcements everyday and be worried about missing some deadline. I also don't need to get in touch with some Japanese authorities or whomever if kraken didn't take care of it. Until then, thanks kraken.

If they have been appointed by a Japanese court, they must be pretty legit!  A court couldn't appoint someone who then rips off the customers who need to be re-imbursed as far as is possible.
The claim system worked fine for me, all buttons worked in google chrome on windows.

I will wait, but not with baited breath for when a refund happens.  I will be interested to see what form it is in, I didn't have a lot of money in my account, I would probably lose a good % if they send me a yen denominated cheque!

Yeah thats what i was thinking i cant seem to find any angle where another goxxing could happen, this time it would be in broad daylight.  Think if the japanese appointed trading platform doesnt payout it would be a good time to launch hiroshima coin.

[turvarya]

I still don't really get the payout options.
So, if I tell them to pay me in BTC, do I get just the BTC(a fraction of it) I had on my account or to I get what they say to pay me(price from shortly after the bankruptcy filling) converted in BTC at the price of the day, I get the payout?
Second option wouldn't make much sense, if they did not already convert the BTC, they found(which they didn't do, as far as I know).

If I tell them to pay me in cash, it's the same basic question: What do I get? They would have to sell the 200k BTC at a most probably lower price, then they list in the claim.
And if I want cash, how exactly do I get this money?

[WhatTheGox]

I still don't really get the payout options.
So, if I tell them to pay me in BTC, do I get just the BTC(a fraction of it) I had on my account or to I get what they say to pay me(price from shortly after the bankruptcy filling) converted in BTC at the price of the day, I get the payout?
Second option wouldn't make much sense, if they did not already convert the BTC, they found(which they didn't do, as far as I know).

If I tell them to pay me in cash, it's the same basic question: What do I get? They would have to sell the 200k BTC at a most probably lower price, then they list in the claim.
And if I want cash, how exactly do I get this money?

lol yeah im with ya, would be nice if the kraken CEO could answer or if they have already perhaps someone can link via reddit regarding this?

[UsernameBitcoin]

I still don't really get the payout options.
So, if I tell them to pay me in BTC, do I get just the BTC(a fraction of it) I had on my account or to I get what they say to pay me(price from shortly after the bankruptcy filling) converted in BTC at the price of the day, I get the payout?
Second option wouldn't make much sense, if they did not already convert the BTC, they found(which they didn't do, as far as I know).

If I tell them to pay me in cash, it's the same basic question: What do I get? They would have to sell the 200k BTC at a most probably lower price, then they list in the claim.
And if I want cash, how exactly do I get this money?

As far as I understood, first they need to determine how much is left.
Now, let's assume that 20% can be recovered.
If you had 1 BTC and chose BTC for payout, you will get 0.2 BTC to your kraken account.
If you had 1 BTC and chose $ for payout, you will get ~80 $ to your bank account (BTC/$ rate at time of bankrupt claim).
Maybe, and this is also not sure right now, they will only refund in BTC, or only in fiat. Then, your preferred choice will be ignored and you get your funds in the currency as they decided.

[turvarya]

I still don't really get the payout options.
So, if I tell them to pay me in BTC, do I get just the BTC(a fraction of it) I had on my account or to I get what they say to pay me(price from shortly after the bankruptcy filling) converted in BTC at the price of the day, I get the payout?
Second option wouldn't make much sense, if they did not already convert the BTC, they found(which they didn't do, as far as I know).

If I tell them to pay me in cash, it's the same basic question: What do I get? They would have to sell the 200k BTC at a most probably lower price, then they list in the claim.
And if I want cash, how exactly do I get this money?

As far as I understood, first they need to determine how much is left.
Now, let's assume that 20% can be recovered.
If you had 1 BTC and chose BTC for payout, you will get 0.2 BTC to your kraken account.
If you had 1 BTC and chose $ for payout, you will get ~80 $ to your bank account (BTC/$ rate at time of bankrupt claim).
Maybe, and this is also not sure right now, they will only refund in BTC, or only in fiat. Then, your preferred choice will be ignored and you get your funds in the currency as they decided.

That can't be true for the obvious reason, that they just don't have the money to pay out in USD(I think, they pay in Yen anyways). They have 200k Bitcoin. So, if they want to pay in USD, they have to convert the BTC to USD, which will most likely be less than the price at the time of the bankruptcy filling.

[WhatTheGox]

I still don't really get the payout options.
So, if I tell them to pay me in BTC, do I get just the BTC(a fraction of it) I had on my account or to I get what they say to pay me(price from shortly after the bankruptcy filling) converted in BTC at the price of the day, I get the payout?
Second option wouldn't make much sense, if they did not already convert the BTC, they found(which they didn't do, as far as I know).

If I tell them to pay me in cash, it's the same basic question: What do I get? They would have to sell the 200k BTC at a most probably lower price, then they list in the claim.
And if I want cash, how exactly do I get this money?

As far as I understood, first they need to determine how much is left.
Now, let's assume that 20% can be recovered.
If you had 1 BTC and chose BTC for payout, you will get 0.2 BTC to your kraken account.
If you had 1 BTC and chose $ for payout, you will get ~80 $ to your bank account (BTC/$ rate at time of bankrupt claim).
Maybe, and this is also not sure right now, they will only refund in BTC, or only in fiat. Then, your preferred choice will be ignored and you get your funds in the currency as they decided.

That can't be true for the obvious reason, that they just don't have the money to pay out in USD(I think, they pay in Yen anyways). They have 200k Bitcoin. So, if they want to pay in USD, they have to convert the BTC to USD, which will most likely be less than the price at the time of the bankruptcy filling.

& If they send you a cheque for Yen you are going to get hit with bank conversion charges, or at least i know i will so direct bitcoin is best for me provided all options pay equal.

[Bagatell]

& If they send you a cheque for Yen you are going to get hit with bank conversion charges, or at least i know i will so direct bitcoin is best for me provided all options pay equal.

They will also have to auction the coins to get the fiat. + six months/a year?

[Amph]

I still don't really get the payout options.
So, if I tell them to pay me in BTC, do I get just the BTC(a fraction of it) I had on my account or to I get what they say to pay me(price from shortly after the bankruptcy filling) converted in BTC at the price of the day, I get the payout?
Second option wouldn't make much sense, if they did not already convert the BTC, they found(which they didn't do, as far as I know).

If I tell them to pay me in cash, it's the same basic question: What do I get? They would have to sell the 200k BTC at a most probably lower price, then they list in the claim.
And if I want cash, how exactly do I get this money?

As far as I understood, first they need to determine how much is left.
Now, let's assume that 20% can be recovered.
If you had 1 BTC and chose BTC for payout, you will get 0.2 BTC to your kraken account.
If you had 1 BTC and chose $ for payout, you will get ~80 $ to your bank account (BTC/$ rate at time of bankrupt claim).
Maybe, and this is also not sure right now, they will only refund in BTC, or only in fiat. Then, your preferred choice will be ignored and you get your funds in the currency as they decided.

you know what this mean right? that i can purchase bitcoin with that amount, and having more than what i would have if i'd cashed out in bitcoin from kraken

because 80 usd are more than 0.2(around 0.35)