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Author Topic: As A Dog Returneth To His Vomit - Quickseller Reloaded  (Read 2087 times)
TerminatorXL
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April 25, 2015, 04:31:54 PM
Last edit: April 25, 2015, 04:45:52 PM by TerminatorXL
 #1

I am looking to buy a good number of full member accounts.
[...]Please either post or PM offers.

Hahaha

[...]
18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.
[...]

"Discouraged"? Does that even mean anything?

A lover of cerebral bitcoin discussion immediately replies:
... I certainly have more than 25 accounts so i can full-fill your need if price is good
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April 25, 2015, 04:49:50 PM
 #2

I am looking to buy a good number of full member accounts.
[...]Please either post or PM offers.

Hahaha

[...]
18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.
[...]

"Discouraged"? Does that even mean anything?

A lover of cerebral bitcoin discussion immediately replies:
... I certainly have more than 25 accounts so i can full-fill your need if price is good

No, it doesn't mean anything.... only "buying & selling" are discouraged but not against the forum rules. Another thing, how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account (or better uses more than one)?
Quickseller
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April 25, 2015, 05:03:26 PM
 #3

I was asked to purchase a number of accounts on behalf of a client. This was likely because of my expertise in dealing in forum accounts. Not that any of this is any of your business

Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
TerminatorXL
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April 25, 2015, 05:05:19 PM
 #4

[...]
No, it doesn't mean anything.... only "buying & selling" are discouraged but not against the forum rules. Another thing, how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account (or better uses more than one)?

>No, it doesn't mean anything.... only "buying & selling" are discouraged but not against the forum rules.
If "discouraged" means nothing, why even mention it up in the [coyly named] "Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ"?

>how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account
The same way I'd know the identity of any other scammer - he slips up & gets owned.
Quickseller, for instance, was forced to admit to controlling ACCTSeller account. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
Quickseller
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April 25, 2015, 05:11:28 PM
 #5

>how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account
The same way I'd know the identity of any other scammer - he slips up & gets owned.
Quickseller, for instance, was forced to admit to controlling ACCTSeller account. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
I am not a scammer, nor did I slip up. I was not forced to admit anything.

You are trolling.

Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
TerminatorXL
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April 25, 2015, 05:22:10 PM
 #6

>how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account
The same way I'd know the identity of any other scammer - he slips up & gets owned.
Quickseller, for instance, was forced to admit to controlling ACCTSeller account. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
I am not a scammer, nor did I slip up. I was not forced to admit anything.

You are trolling.

Of course you were forced to admit it. Shall I drag up the post where you, posting under ACCTSeller, refuse to admit to being a sock, and demand me to prove it?
Getting a bit old Undecided
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April 25, 2015, 05:23:10 PM
 #7

Ok this is getting ridiculous, are admins gonna do something about all these useless posts on here? Lock them up at least. Like every 3 fucking posts in here are about quickseller or vod because they gave negative trust to someone, why the fuck do you even care so much about trust, what can you even do with trust besides trying to scam someone

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Quickseller
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April 25, 2015, 05:24:27 PM
 #8

>how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account
The same way I'd know the identity of any other scammer - he slips up & gets owned.
Quickseller, for instance, was forced to admit to controlling ACCTSeller account. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
I am not a scammer, nor did I slip up. I was not forced to admit anything.

You are trolling.

Of course you were forced to admit it. Shall I drag up the post where you, posting under ACCTSeller, refuse to admit to being a sock, and demand me to prove it?
Getting a bit old Undecided
Why don't you point to the post where I was forced to admit them both belonging to me? The fact that I was not previously willing to publicly admit to both accounts being mine means nothing.

Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
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April 25, 2015, 05:26:37 PM
 #9

[...]
No, it doesn't mean anything.... only "buying & selling" are discouraged but not against the forum rules. Another thing, how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account (or better uses more than one)?

>No, it doesn't mean anything.... only "buying & selling" are discouraged but not against the forum rules.
If "discouraged" means nothing, why even mention it up in the [coyly named] "Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ"?

I don't create the forum rules but I know that buy and sell (bitcointalk) forum account is not against the forum rules, and also it is would be not against them I am sure the forum staff can't stop that practice.


>how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account
The same way I'd know the identity of any other scammer - he slips up & gets owned.
Quickseller, for instance, was forced to admit to controlling ACCTSeller account. Not sure what point you're trying to make.

Continue attacking the members of default Trust is very useless, I know you have created this thread only for this purpose.
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April 25, 2015, 05:28:17 PM
 #10

Ok this is getting ridiculous, are admins gonna do something about all these useless posts on here? Lock them up at least. Like every 3 fucking posts in here are about quickseller or vod because they gave negative trust to someone, why the fuck do you even care so much about trust, what can you even do with trust besides trying to scam someone

This topic is not about trust. It is about forum accounts being bought & sold in the open. If you have nothing to contribute and/or feel the issue is unimportant, feel free to stop shitting up my thread & delete your post.
ty
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April 25, 2015, 05:35:36 PM
 #11

>how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account
The same way I'd know the identity of any other scammer - he slips up & gets owned.
Quickseller, for instance, was forced to admit to controlling ACCTSeller account. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
I am not a scammer, nor did I slip up. I was not forced to admit anything.

You are trolling.

Of course you were forced to admit it. Shall I drag up the post where you, posting under ACCTSeller, refuse to admit to being a sock, and demand me to prove it?
Getting a bit old Undecided
Why don't you point to the post where I was forced to admit them both belonging to me? The fact that I was not previously willing to publicly admit to both accounts being mine means nothing.

Let me rephrase then: After refusing to own your alt, you had a change of heart (when a user you've propositioned to start a ponzi threatened to prove it).
Better?

I was asked to purchase a number of accounts on behalf of a client. [...]

Because moving accounts in bulk is far more ethical than peddling them one by one. That's for, like, street dealers Cheesy
Also lol @ "behalf of a client" Cheesy

[...]
Continue attacking the members of default Trust is very useless, I know you have created this thread only for this purpose.

Dunno, seems like it might be worth a try Undecided
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April 25, 2015, 05:38:49 PM
 #12



Banning the account transaction will only make this kind of transaction to operate from underground which makes the transaction hard to be tracked. By not banning the selling or buying of the forum account this actually have more benefit since all the sales of the account will be made in public
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April 25, 2015, 05:39:18 PM
 #13

Why am i a cerebral bitcoin discussion lover here ? Cheesy Cheesy
I recently bought some accounts and now am selling them.
It's completely free will of QS to want to buy or sell account , why does it matter if he's back
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April 25, 2015, 05:42:11 PM
 #14

Another calling the kettle black thread.

Ok this is getting ridiculous, are admins gonna do something about all these useless posts on here? Lock them up at least. Like every 3 fucking posts in here are about quickseller or vod because they gave negative trust to someone, why the fuck do you even care so much about trust, what can you even do with trust besides trying to scam someone

This topic is not about trust. It is about forum accounts being bought & sold in the open. If you have nothing to contribute and/or feel the issue is unimportant, feel free to stop shitting up my thread & delete your post.
ty

This is exactly the reason why the "rule" is phrased the way it is. Admins to not want you to have multiple accounts, but they do not forbid it. A commonly stated reason for this is that its not enforceable, thus its better to have these sales in the open. If everyone knows an account can be sold its harder to get fooled by an account.
Another reason often stated is that someone might have business they do not want to get associated with their private account. Maybe they want to share the account with their partners.
Some (this includes the admins) have a second for security reasons.


I hope you are now satisfied in your pitiful trolling attempt and lock this thread. "TerminatorXL" is certainly not your main account and the only conclusion I can draw from that is: you are afraid to have your trolling associated with it. Which is - apart from the trolling bit - another good reasons why its fine to have multiple accounts.

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April 25, 2015, 05:43:30 PM
 #15

I don't thing meta is discussion about the forum anymore Sad.

Buy CBD Cannabis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5201537
Pictures in thread.
TerminatorXL
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April 25, 2015, 05:45:54 PM
 #16

Banning the account transaction will only make this kind of transaction to operate from underground which makes the transaction hard to be tracked. By not banning the selling or buying of the forum account this actually have more benefit since all the sales of the account will be made in public

By outlawing armed robberies, we only force armed robbers to "operate from underground which makes the [armed robberies] hard to be tracked."
Something like that?
Besides, who would want to track upstanding citizens dealing in forum accounts???

@chronicsky: You're an account farmer, the cancer of bitcointalk. Just an opinion Smiley
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April 25, 2015, 05:51:40 PM
 #17

Banning the account transaction will only make this kind of transaction to operate from underground which makes the transaction hard to be tracked. By not banning the selling or buying of the forum account this actually have more benefit since all the sales of the account will be made in public

By outlawing armed robberies, we only force armed robbers to "operate from underground which makes the [armed robberies] hard to be tracked."
Something like that?
Besides, who would want to track upstanding citizens dealing in forum accounts???


armed robberies has been outlawed and yet it keeps on happening  Wink, main point is, banning the account sales wont actually make this practice stop . Admin might want to track it perhaps the account is purchase by a serial scammer, imo  Wink

@chronicsky: You're an account farmer, the cancer of bitcointalk. Just an opinion Smiley

Umm, he is more likely an account trader not farmer and not a cancer

"TerminatorXL" is certainly not your main account and the only conclusion I can draw from that is: you are afraid to have your trolling associated with it. Which is - apart from the trolling bit - another good reasons why its fine to have multiple accounts.

Or afraid that his main account might be tagged with the negative trust for constant trolling

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April 25, 2015, 05:56:55 PM
 #18

Another calling the kettle black thread.

Ok this is getting ridiculous, are admins gonna do something about all these useless posts on here? Lock them up at least. Like every 3 fucking posts in here are about quickseller or vod because they gave negative trust to someone, why the fuck do you even care so much about trust, what can you even do with trust besides trying to scam someone

This topic is not about trust. It is about forum accounts being bought & sold in the open. If you have nothing to contribute and/or feel the issue is unimportant, feel free to stop shitting up my thread & delete your post.
ty

This is exactly the reason why the "rule" is phrased the way it is. Admins to not want you to have multiple accounts, but they do not forbid it. A commonly stated reason for this is that its not enforceable, thus its better to have these sales in the open.

No, it's not.
[...]
By outlawing armed robberies, we only force armed robbers to "operate from underground which makes the [armed robberies] hard to be tracked."
[/...]
The problem with not having a law against armed robbery selling accounts is obvious: Once the malefactor is known, he is free to continue as if nothing has happened.

Quote
If everyone knows an account can be sold its harder to get fooled by an account.

What makes you think that everyone knows? I was on this forum for over a year before I found out.

Quote

Another reason often stated is that someone might have business they do not want to get associated with their private account. Maybe they want to share the account with their partners.
Some (this includes the admins) have a second for security reasons.

Yeah, and there are perfectly legit reasons for having fake ID too, oddly enough it's generally frowned upon Undecided

Quote
I hope you are now satisfied in your pitiful trolling attempt and lock this thread. "TerminatorXL" is certainly not your main account and the only conclusion I can draw from that is: you are afraid to have your trolling associated with it. Which is - apart from the trolling bit - another good reasons why its fine to have multiple accounts.

Take the D out of your mouth & learn to be polite. Here's why I'm using an alt:
[...]
The reason for using a throwaway account is this: Don't want my main account to get banned Sad

http://s11.postimg.org/up85p4sw3/Capture.png
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April 25, 2015, 06:01:37 PM
 #19

I don't thing meta is discussion about the forum anymore Sad.

I was thinking that while reading this thread.
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April 25, 2015, 06:02:50 PM
 #20

You are trolling. People do not get banned for speaking out against the trading of accounts, nor do they get banned for speaking out against the staff/administration. I have spoken out against the moderation of the forum plenty of times and never have been banned.

Even if people did get banned for speaking out against the administration/staff then your main account would get banned as well because BadBear/theymos is able to determine which accounts you alts are and proceed to ban them as well

Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
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April 25, 2015, 06:06:43 PM
 #21

Banning the account transaction will only make this kind of transaction to operate from underground which makes the transaction hard to be tracked. By not banning the selling or buying of the forum account this actually have more benefit since all the sales of the account will be made in public

By outlawing armed robberies, we only force armed robbers to "operate from underground which makes the [armed robberies] hard to be tracked."
Something like that?
Besides, who would want to track upstanding citizens dealing in forum accounts???


armed robberies has been outlawed and yet it keeps on happening  Wink, main point is, banning the account sales wont actually make this practice stop . Admin might want to track it perhaps the account is purchase by a serial scammer, imo  Wink

No, outlawing armed robberies didn't make them disappear. It did make the practice a bit less common than it otherwise would have been Smiley

Quote
@chronicsky: You're an account farmer, the cancer of bitcointalk. Just an opinion Smiley

Umm, he is more likely an account trader not farmer and not a cancer

"TerminatorXL" is certainly not your main account and the only conclusion I can draw from that is: you are afraid to have your trolling associated with it. Which is - apart from the trolling bit - another good reasons why its fine to have multiple accounts.

Or afraid that his main account might be tagged with the negative trust for constant trolling

Possible. Quickseller & his alts have been known to be a bit vindictive in the past (see rest of this sub) Cheesy
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April 25, 2015, 06:14:55 PM
 #22

You are trolling. People do not get banned for speaking out against the trading of accounts, nor do they get banned for speaking out against the staff/administration. I have spoken out against the moderation of the forum plenty of times and never have been banned.
http://s11.postimg.org/up85p4sw3/Capture.png
Quote
Even if people did get banned for speaking out against the administration/staff then your main account would get banned as well because BadBear/theymos is able to determine which accounts you alts are and proceed to ban them as well

My understanding is that they can not - at least that's the rationale given for allowing alt accounts. Tricky thing, argument in the alternative Cheesy
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April 25, 2015, 06:32:40 PM
 #23


@chronicsky: You're an account farmer, the cancer of bitcointalk. Just an opinion Smiley

Nope! Am just a account buyer/seller , i buy them at low and sell them , i never make account , neither do i have time to join Sig from other accounts.
So i just buy/sell , you got a problem with it ! deal with your problems . Anyways since this is not your main either , let me know if you're looking for another account Wink Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Why am i even explaining this to a troller like you Undecided
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April 25, 2015, 06:40:57 PM
 #24

[...]
Nope! Am just a account buyer/seller , i buy them at low and sell them , i never make account , neither do i have time to join Sig from other accounts.
So i just buy/sell , you got a problem with it ! deal with your problems . [...]

I do have a problem with that, my new friend, as you might have already guessed. And, as you can see, I'm beginning to deal with it.
Not going to let this forum degenerate into a cesspool of spam & scam Smiley

I don't thing meta is discussion about the forum anymore Sad.

Sure. Excepting the distractions of [several?] white knight[ s] of dubious motivation, this thread is about forum policies.
In particular, the policy adressing the buying & selling of bitcointalk accounts.
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April 25, 2015, 07:10:08 PM
 #25

I don't thing meta is discussion about the forum anymore Sad.

I was thinking that while reading this thread.

We should rename this section in "Quickseller & Meta" // Sarcasm

However, I think the freedom (of speech) will prevail for ever in this forum and this type of thread will be really useful (because everyone will know the truth about some user).
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April 25, 2015, 07:33:01 PM
 #26

so what the point this thread? are you vindictive to someone? are you looking for revenge?whatever it is, wish this may be useful.
love and peace from me  Wink
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April 25, 2015, 08:23:53 PM
Last edit: April 25, 2015, 09:22:24 PM by TerminatorXL
 #27

so what the point this thread? are you vindictive to someone? are you looking for revenge?whatever it is, wish this may be useful.
love and peace from me  Wink

ELI5 version:
The point is to change the forum policy regarding buying and selling of user accounts.
At best, these accounts are used to pollute this forum with pay-to-post sig spam.
At worst, these accounts are used for scamming.
Allowing this shit to go on in the open also makes us look retarded Smiley

Edit: Turn over any stone on this forum, you'll find a budding turd Sad Welcome to the forum, douchebag.
hey i want to sell jr.member account but i dont know the deserve price
the activity is over 40, i see people sell it for around 0.007
so anyone interested?
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April 25, 2015, 09:18:41 PM
 #28

ELI5 version:
The point is to change the forum policy regarding buying and selling of user accounts.
At best, these accounts are used to pollute this forum with pay-to-post sig spam.
At worst, these accounts are used for scamming.
Allowing this shit to go on in the open also makes us look retarded Smiley

Account selling isn't against the rules, and its not something that we plan on changing. First off, the idea of allowing alt accounts was a principal created by Satoshi when he created the forum I'm quite sure. Anonymity doesn't exist, but pseudonymity does. Just like you aren't using your main account for fear of backlash for acting like an idiot, there are valid reasons for having multiple accounts. Second, it isn't something that the staff or admins can control, people are going to buy/sell accounts regardless, so why make a rule against something you can't enforce? Paid advertising signatures are indeed an annoyance, and thats another issue that is being worked on, but you said at the best that is what accounts are purchased for. Have you considered that paid advertising signatures give value to accounts that makes scamming more expensive for scammers to attempt?

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April 25, 2015, 09:31:55 PM
 #29

ELI5 version:
The point is to change the forum policy regarding buying and selling of user accounts.
At best, these accounts are used to pollute this forum with pay-to-post sig spam.
At worst, these accounts are used for scamming.
Allowing this shit to go on in the open also makes us look retarded Smiley

Account selling isn't against the rules, and its not something that we plan on changing.

No, it's something we plan on changing.

Quote
First off, the idea of allowing alt accounts was a principal created by Satoshi when he created the forum I'm quite sure.

Bullshit. Sauce?

Quote
Anonymity doesn't exist, but pseudonymity does. Just like you aren't using your main account for fear of backlash for acting like an idiot, there are valid reasons for having multiple accounts. Second, it isn't something that the staff or admins can control, people are going to buy/sell accounts regardless, so why make a rule against something you can't enforce?

Already covered, pay attention. And lrn 2 polite when addressing ur betters, faggot.
 
Quote
Paid advertising signatures are indeed an annoyance, and thats another issue that is being worked on, but you said at the best that is what accounts are purchased for. Have you considered that paid advertising signatures give value to accounts that makes scamming more expensive for scammers to attempt?

No, i haven't considered it. For the same reason I haven't considered sticking my dick in a rat trap -- it's stupid.
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April 25, 2015, 09:36:33 PM
 #30

So if I'm gauging this right, you don't actually care about your OP, and you are trying to get yourself banned so you can call abuse and be a martyr. You know most people are smart enough to see through the bullshit. If you actually care about account selling, try responding again without the unnecessary language. I've been here for years, I'm not stupid enough to get into a flame war with a newbie account that is trying to make a point.

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April 25, 2015, 09:43:12 PM
 #31

So if I'm gauging this right, you don't actually care about your OP, and you are trying to get yourself banned so you can call abuse and be a martyr. You know most people are smart enough to see through the bullshit. If you actually care about account selling, try responding again without the unnecessary language. I've been here for years, I'm not stupid enough to get into a flame war with a newbie account that is trying to make a point.

No, you're gauging this wrong. I'm not afraid of this account getting banned, hence will not tolerate your grasping condescension.
Respect others, and remember that not everyone here is a teenager.

And lol @ "I've been here for years" - I've been here for years too.
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April 25, 2015, 09:49:16 PM
 #32

So if I'm gauging this right, you don't actually care about your OP, and you are trying to get yourself banned so you can call abuse and be a martyr. You know most people are smart enough to see through the bullshit. If you actually care about account selling, try responding again without the unnecessary language. I've been here for years, I'm not stupid enough to get into a flame war with a newbie account that is trying to make a point.

No, you're gauging this wrong. I'm not afraid of this account getting banned, hence will not tolerate your grasping condescension.
Respect others, and remember that not everyone here is a teenager.

And lol @ "I've been here for years" - I've been here for years too.

You know, I like you bro. Grin But isn't the issue here the monetization of posts? Aren't sig campaigns the real sauce of this?

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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April 25, 2015, 09:56:38 PM
 #33

So if I'm gauging this right, you don't actually care about your OP, and you are trying to get yourself banned so you can call abuse and be a martyr. You know most people are smart enough to see through the bullshit. If you actually care about account selling, try responding again without the unnecessary language. I've been here for years, I'm not stupid enough to get into a flame war with a newbie account that is trying to make a point.

No, you're gauging this wrong. I'm not afraid of this account getting banned, hence will not tolerate your grasping condescension.
Respect others, and remember that not everyone here is a teenager.

So if you care about the topic, why not talk to me and get answers rather than being an ass? If you want me to talk to you like an adult, I expect the same curtosy. I have no problem with those who disagree with policies, but if you are going to use unnecessary insults, why should I take the time to answer you? There are plenty of people who speak out against issues that they see the forum having, but they don't get banned. You don't get banned for not liking what we do here, you get banned for being disruptive. Far too many people try to make a point by getting themselves banned for behavior that is completely unnecessary, and then they cry abuse. You don't own the forums, Theymos does, moderators just try to help the forums by keeping the boards clean of off topic crap and things that will get the forum operators in trouble with the law, IE death threats, people selling drugs, etc. I explained why account selling is allowed, but I will do so in more detail, you are welcome to refute points, but this time if you want to be treated like an adult, act like one.

1) We can't stop it. There is no way to stop account selling. If we ban account selling, what will people do? They will sell their accounts not in the public. They will sell them off site through IM or what ever, and people will use Tor or Proxies or whatever to avoid getting caught. Allowing it, people can trade accounts openly so others know that it is going on.

2) The good outweighs the bad. Everyone knows that scams happen, so people are already on their toes. People always fear that a trusted user is going to sell their account and someone will scam with it, yet no one has pointed out any case where that has ever happened. Just like you are using an alt account to avoid people going after your main account, that is a good reason to have alt accounts. If you have an unpopular idea and don't want that associated with a personal or professional account, you can voice your opinions with an alt account. That was what Satoshi mentioned in passing, I'd quote that for you, but that would require hours of sifting through old threads, so I mentioned I believe that is the case, but I can't site it for you at the moment.

Paid advertising signatures are annoying, of all people I agree with you there. I spend hours per day dealing with it. That is another issue that is being worked on. We don't want to remove paid advertising signatures all together, but something will be done to limit the spam. But to my point that you called stupid. If I can make .3 BTC per month with a hero account with a paid advertising signature, that increases the value of accounts. If you can make 1 BTC with an account in 3 months, the account is going to be worth more than it was without paid advertising signatures. Scammers will then have to pay more for older accounts, and if they fail to scam, their account gets marked with negative trust, and they are out 1+ BTC or whatever accounts are selling for.

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April 25, 2015, 10:01:25 PM
 #34

[...]
You know, I like you bro. Grin But isn't the issue here the monetization of posts? Aren't sig campaigns the real sause of this?

It's the gestalt of paid ads, buying & selling of accounts, and financially invested mods.
Difficult to speak out against ad campaigns while participating in them, no? Would probably also be against the campaign rules Cheesy
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April 25, 2015, 10:17:53 PM
 #35

So if I'm gauging this right, you don't actually care about your OP, and you are trying to get yourself banned so you can call abuse and be a martyr. You know most people are smart enough to see through the bullshit. If you actually care about account selling, try responding again without the unnecessary language. I've been here for years, I'm not stupid enough to get into a flame war with a newbie account that is trying to make a point.

No, you're gauging this wrong. I'm not afraid of this account getting banned, hence will not tolerate your grasping condescension.
Respect others, and remember that not everyone here is a teenager.

So if you care about the topic, why not talk to me and get answers rather than being an ass? If you want me to talk to you like an adult, I expect the same curtosy. I have no problem with those who disagree with policies, but if you are going to use unnecessary insults, why should I take the time to answer you?

>idiot
>ass
Avoid using those words when speaking to me. Results may surprise you.

Quote
There are plenty of people who speak out against issues that they see the forum having, but they don't get banned. You don't get banned for not liking what we do here, you get banned for being disruptive. Far too many people try to make a point by getting themselves banned for behavior that is completely unnecessary, and then they cry abuse.

Some disagree.
http://s18.postimg.org/o5qd5iokp/Capture.png

Quote
You don't own the forums, Theymos does, moderators just try to help the forums by keeping the boards clean of off topic crap and things that will get the forum operators in trouble with the law, IE death threats, people selling drugs, etc. I explained why account selling is allowed, but I will do so in more detail, you are welcome to refute points, but this time if you want to be treated like an adult, act like one.

1) We can't stop it. There is no way to stop account selling.

You can't fully stop it. Just like you can't fully stop people killing each other.
This doesn't imply that murder should be legalized.
 
Quote
If we ban account selling, what will people do? They will sell their accounts not in the public. They will sell them off site through IM or what ever, and people will use Tor or Proxies or whatever to avoid getting caught. Allowing it, people can trade accounts openly so others know that it is going on.

Sure. Caveat: Just as the case with murder, the number of incidents tends to decline when no longer condoned by the powers that be. And the malefactors could be penalized when discovered. Now? I get to look at them spam & scam.

<more in the next post>
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April 25, 2015, 10:31:43 PM
 #36

Quote
2) The good outweighs the bad. Everyone knows that scams happen, so people are already on their toes. People always fear that a trusted user is going to sell their account and someone will scam with it, yet no one has pointed out any case where that has ever happened.

You're implying that some bad arguments were made against forum-approved account dealing? I'm sure, though I'm not the one making them, so feel no need to rationalize/defend them. Many fools in every camp.

Quote

Just like you are using an alt account to avoid people going after your main account, that is a good reason to have alt accounts. If you have an unpopular idea and don't want that associated with a personal or professional account, you can voice your opinions with an alt account. That was what Satoshi mentioned in passing, I'd quote that for you, but that would require hours of sifting through old threads, so I mentioned I believe that is the case, but I can't site it for you at the moment.

I'm sorry, but I find it difficult to accept that a bitcointalk mod can't find a Satoshi quote. That's like a revival preacher not being able to quote the Bible. As I've pointed out before, I do not remember him saying anything regarding alt accounts.Please take the time to find it & make me eat my words.

Quote
Paid advertising signatures are annoying, of all people I agree with you there. I spend hours per day dealing with it. That is another issue that is being worked on. We don't want to remove paid advertising signatures all together, but something will be done to limit the spam. But to my point that you called stupid. If I can make .3 BTC per month with a hero account with a paid advertising signature, that increases the value of accounts. If you can make 1 BTC with an account in 3 months, the account is going to be worth more than it was without paid advertising signatures. Scammers will then have to pay more for older accounts, and if they fail to scam, their account gets marked with negative trust, and they are out 1+ BTC or whatever accounts are selling for.

I'll explain why this is nonsense. The sort of scams perpetrated with hero accounts net their owners hundreds and thousands of BTC, not the pocket change dribbling in as they post which you're describing.
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April 25, 2015, 10:48:15 PM
 #37

Quote
I'm sorry, but I find it difficult to accept that a bitcointalk mod can't find a Satoshi quote. That's like a revival preacher not being able to quote the Bible. As I've pointed out before, I do not remember him saying anything regarding alt accounts.Please take the time to find it & make me eat my words.

Quote
Paid advertising signatures are annoying, of all people I agree with you there. I spend hours per day dealing with it. That is another issue that is being worked on. We don't want to remove paid advertising signatures all together, but something will be done to limit the spam. But to my point that you called stupid. If I can make .3 BTC per month with a hero account with a paid advertising signature, that increases the value of accounts. If you can make 1 BTC with an account in 3 months, the account is going to be worth more than it was without paid advertising signatures. Scammers will then have to pay more for older accounts, and if they fail to scam, their account gets marked with negative trust, and they are out 1+ BTC or whatever accounts are selling for.

I'll explain why this is nonsense. The sort of scams perpetrated with hero accounts net their owners hundreds and thousands of BTC, not the pocket change dribbling in as they post which you're describing.

I dont have a magic search button to search through thousands of specified threads, I've got the same tools as anyone else. Forum policy was influenced very heavily by Satoshi since he created the original forum policy, I dont really wish to get into semantics, as you have addressed a single problem, account selling, and I wish to address that. As I said, please provide a single example of where a hero account that was purchased netted hundreds if not thousands of Bitcoins?

Equating alt accounts to killing people is assanine. If someone kills another person, there is physical evidence and police forces with resources at their disposal. This is a forum, we aren't going to track people down who make new accounts and put them in prision. Not that there is any intention to end account selling, but if we were looking for a solution, what would be your proposal to end account selling? How could you possibly stop people from making an account on a website? IP bans? Banning Proxies/Tor? There is absolutely no way to ban account selling, and its not a big deal. If we banned account selling, 95% of the forum users that knew how to avoid getting caught would then be able to cause more damage by creating new accounts. As it is, people trade with caution with anyone.

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April 25, 2015, 10:51:50 PM
 #38

I'm sorry, but I find it difficult to accept that a bitcointalk mod can't find a Satoshi quote.

I don't think the Global Moderators have access to the raw sql database like Theymos does, so he probably has access to the same tools you do.

Edit:  SaltySpitoon beat me to it, with almost exactly the same words.   Cheesy

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April 25, 2015, 11:23:17 PM
 #39

Quote
I'm sorry, but I find it difficult to accept that a bitcointalk mod can't find a Satoshi quote. That's like a revival preacher not being able to quote the Bible. As I've pointed out before, I do not remember him saying anything regarding alt accounts.Please take the time to find it & make me eat my words.

Quote
Paid advertising signatures are annoying, of all people I agree with you there. I spend hours per day dealing with it. That is another issue that is being worked on. We don't want to remove paid advertising signatures all together, but something will be done to limit the spam. But to my point that you called stupid. If I can make .3 BTC per month with a hero account with a paid advertising signature, that increases the value of accounts. If you can make 1 BTC with an account in 3 months, the account is going to be worth more than it was without paid advertising signatures. Scammers will then have to pay more for older accounts, and if they fail to scam, their account gets marked with negative trust, and they are out 1+ BTC or whatever accounts are selling for.

I'll explain why this is nonsense. The sort of scams perpetrated with hero accounts net their owners hundreds and thousands of BTC, not the pocket change dribbling in as they post which you're describing.

I dont have a magic search button to search through thousands of specified threads, I've got the same tools as anyone else. Forum policy was influenced very heavily by Satoshi since he created the original forum policy, I dont really wish to get into semantics, as you have addressed a single problem, account selling, and I wish to address that. As I said, please provide a single example of where a hero account that was purchased netted hundreds if not thousands of Bitcoins?

You're asking me to do the impossible, but what about this guy, TAT? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=79242
He hasn't posted at all in the past year, or posted much after Neo and Bee fiasco, which he bootstrapped on his sterling reputation, did a runner. Didn't sound much like himself in his last posts, either.
But again, you're making me defend arguments I've never made, so sorry if I sound tepid Undecided

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Equating alt accounts to killing people is assanine.

There you go again, "assanine" [sic]. I'm not equating, I'm making whatchamacall an analogy.

Quote
If someone kills another person, there is physical evidence and police forces with resources at their disposal. This is a forum, we aren't going to track people down who make new accounts and put them in prision.

Did anyone other than yourself mention prison? I certainly didn't. You ban accounts, that's a natural fact. You ban them for ill-defined, wholly subjective transgressions. That's also a fact, since there isn't even a rigidly defined set of forum rules - just an "unofficial" list.
What makes multiple accounts any different? And why allow them to be sold in the open? It's an embarrassment when people like Quickseller, a default trust member, advertise to purchase senior accounts IN BULK.

Quote
Not that there is any intention to end account selling, but if we were looking for a solution, what would be your proposal to end account selling?

Start by changing the forum policy - forbid it.

Quote
How could you possibly stop people from making an account on a website? IP bans? Banning Proxies/Tor? There is absolutely no way to ban account selling, and its not a big deal.

It is a medium-sized deal, it's making this place look retarded.
Fewer accounts will be made when they can't be sold right here, on bitcointalk, in the digital goods and auctions sections.
And when the likes of Quickseller are caught using alts, they could be banned.
Unlike now, when nothing happens.
Basic stuff, surprising I need to explain it.

Quote
If we banned account selling, 95% of the forum users that knew how to avoid getting caught would then be able to cause more damage by creating new accounts. As it is, people trade with caution with anyone.

Please. In this very thread, I've explained that legalizing murder wouldn't reduce the number of killings "because people would be more cautious."

Edit:
[...]
I don't think the Global Moderators have access to the raw sql database like Theymos does, so he probably has access to the same tools you do.
[...]

Why the need? satoshi->profile->posts & search. Though Google would likely be much easier. Just assumed that anyone citing Satoshi like grammy quotes her Red letter Bible would sort'a know what he's looking for.
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April 25, 2015, 11:43:36 PM
 #40

Ok, what is your argument then? I keep making points and you claim you never stated otherwise, so what are your points so I can adress them?

Its a bad analogy, you can't compare killing someone to making alt accounts.

There we go, you have a chip on your shoulder about Quickseller, ok. While you state it as fact, who said that I ban accounts? Let alone for unknown transgressions. Yep there aren't steadfast rules, because then people could abuse loopholes. Rather than unforgiving rules, we have a group of people decide on bans and ample warnings are given. Common sense and well thought out policies are what the forum runs by.

I've already addressed why having multiple accounts isn't against the rules, but I'm waiting for you to address specific points that I can then address since I'm not allowed to make examples or address anything that you haven't specifically said.

Ok, hypothetically, we forbid having multiple accounts. What happens then? People then sell accounts through IRC, Ebay, ecrypted messages via PM, etc and the practice continues. We can't really disuade people from selling accounts, not in any reasonable manner.

Saying a rule is retarded but not explaining why you think so, even though I've given multiple valid reasons for why it isn't retarded isn't really helping. I could explain very throughly why you can't draw comparisons between murder and account creation, but I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth, so I'll wait for you to ask.

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April 26, 2015, 12:13:24 AM
 #41

Ok, what is your argument then? I keep making points and you claim you never stated otherwise, so what are your points so I can adress them?

I'm sorry, did you bother reading the thread? It's, frankly, insulting to have to repeat myself in every post.

Quote
Its a bad analogy, you can't compare killing someone to making alt accounts.

It's structurally analogous, I'm good with it.

Quote
There we go, you have a chip on your shoulder about Quickseller, ok.

Please see the topic of this thread. Quickseller makes a great poster boy for prohibiting dealing in forum accounts, hence I use him as an example of how this shit works out in practice. Not sure why this should be surprising.

Quote
While you state it as fact, who said that I ban accounts?

Assumed accounts get banned, am I wrong? By "you" i meant "you, the forum staff."

Quote
Let alone for unknown transgressions. Yep there aren't steadfast rules, because then people could abuse loopholes. Rather than unforgiving rules, we have a group of people decide on bans and ample warnings are given. Common sense and well thought out policies are what the forum runs by.

Having no clearly defined rules means no one is sure if what he's doing is wrong - sort of how most tyrannical states operate. An oligarch making up rules as they go along breeds general disease and criminality, that should be self-evident.
 <more>
 

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April 26, 2015, 12:14:45 AM
 #42

I have a question:

If account trading is banned (and assuming this ban could be enforced), then you could not sell your account.

If a major reason why people sell their accounts is because they need money to cover some expense AND

If a major reason why many people scam is because they need money (some people are just scumbags and scam because they are too lazy to work for themselves) THEN

If account trading is banned, wouldn't we see an increase in the number of scams and scam attempts? Or is my logic somehow flawed?

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April 26, 2015, 12:24:09 AM
 #43

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I've already addressed why having multiple accounts isn't against the rules, but I'm waiting for you to address specific points that I can then address since I'm not allowed to make examples or address anything that you haven't specifically said.

Ok, hypothetically, we forbid having multiple accounts. What happens then? People then sell accounts through IRC, Ebay, ecrypted messages via PM, etc and the practice continues. We can't really disuade people from selling accounts, not in any reasonable manner.

Of course you can dissuade people from buying and selling accounts. Just like laws against murder dissuade people from killing.
I hope you're not suggesting that disallowing accounts to be sold right here, as frictionlessly and conveniently as possible, would encourage account sales and increase the number of accounts bought and sold?

Quote
Saying a rule is retarded but not explaining why you think so, even though I've given multiple valid reasons for why it isn't retarded isn't really helping. I could explain very throughly why you can't draw comparisons between murder and account creation, but I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth, so I'll wait for you to ask.

Before we go on, would you be for prohibiting buying & selling of forum accounts if doing so would cut the number of these accounts by, oh, 75%? Hypothetically?

@Quickseller/ACCTSeller: Your logic isn't just flawed, it's not even wrong Sad
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April 26, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
 #44

Which point would you refute? The fact that people sell their accounts because they need money? That people scam because they need money? Or that when people have one way to get money cut off they will naturally try another way to get money?

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April 26, 2015, 12:49:30 AM
 #45

Of course you can dissuade people from buying and selling accounts. Just like laws against murder dissuade people from killing.
I hope you're not suggesting that disallowing accounts to be sold right here, as frictionlessly and conveniently as possible, would encourage account sales and increase the number of accounts bought and sold?

Quote
Before we go on, would you be for prohibiting buying & selling of forum accounts if doing so would cut the number of these accounts by, oh, 75%? Hypothetically?

Laws that can be enforced, like laws against murders that yield punishment dissuade people from killing. We could ban people that we catch, which would be a mild inconvience for them, then they just create another account and try not to get caught when they start selling accounts again.

I'm not sure if 75% would be enough. I'm not sure if 99% would be enough. As we have agreed, its hard to point out a single case where a purchased trusted account has been used to scam. All it would take is 1 person to sell a trusted account against the forum rules, people convinced that its the original owner because account selling isn't allowed get scammed, and we then have our case. The fact that the policy has been in place for 5 years now, and we are still talking hypotheticals with regards to sold accounts being used to scam says something.

There is a pretty simple remedy, just use PGP or sign a message from a Bitcoin address that is known to be held by the original owner of the account. But again, account selling isn't banned not just for scam prevention reasons, its not banned for pseudonymity's sake. This forum is about conversation and discussion of technology over the marketplace section. The marketplace is a secondary concern, rules wont change that effect the forum's primary objective to help better a secondary feature. Imagine if Gavin Andresen wanted to get into a fight with some people over some political issue. If he did that from his Gavin Andresen account, that could negatively effect other work he is doing. Account selling isn't banned

A) Because it would be unenforcable
B) There are places where having multiple accounts allows people to speak their mind without fear of backlash from others.

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April 26, 2015, 01:09:43 AM
 #46

>how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account
The same way I'd know the identity of any other scammer - he slips up & gets owned.
Quickseller, for instance, was forced to admit to controlling ACCTSeller account. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
I am not a scammer, nor did I slip up. I was not forced to admit anything.

You are trolling.

Of course you were forced to admit it. Shall I drag up the post where you, posting under ACCTSeller, refuse to admit to being a sock, and demand me to prove it?
Getting a bit old Undecided
Why don't you point to the post where I was forced to admit them both belonging to me? The fact that I was not previously willing to publicly admit to both accounts being mine means nothing.

SO your alt is acctseller? priceless
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April 26, 2015, 01:10:15 AM
 #47

>how do you know if someone 'owns' more than one forum account
The same way I'd know the identity of any other scammer - he slips up & gets owned.
Quickseller, for instance, was forced to admit to controlling ACCTSeller account. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
I am not a scammer, nor did I slip up. I was not forced to admit anything.

You are trolling.

Of course you were forced to admit it. Shall I drag up the post where you, posting under ACCTSeller, refuse to admit to being a sock, and demand me to prove it?
Getting a bit old Undecided

waiting for this post please.
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April 26, 2015, 01:20:11 AM
 #48

[...]I'm not sure if 99% would be enough.

That sorta makes enforceability a non-issue then. Can't think of a single law that stops 100% of the thing it was created to prevent, not even laws against killing.

Quote
As we have agreed, its hard to point out a single case where a purchased trusted account has been used to scam. All it would take is 1 person to sell a trusted account against the forum rules, people convinced that its the original owner because account selling isn't allowed get scammed, and we then have our case.

What makes you focus on the grand scam so much, and why have you ignored a rather plausible case I've mentioned, TAT (who, BTW, was logged in the last time i checked)?
I'm not saying trusted accounts are sold to do royal scams, they're far more useful as TAT, for instance - sort of above-board bureaucrat lending his reputation to a scam which, upon completion, he can't be tied to.
But that's not what I'm talking about - I'm talking about accounts being farmed and sold to commit petty crime, and to make money from pay-to-spam advertising.
And the whole bitcointalk mod crew getting brought on board because poor & easier to corrupt than a banana republic government clerk.
Forgive me if this sounds insulting, but you're arguing for something that's so obviously wrong on so many levels, I'm a bit flabbergasted.

Quote
There is a pretty simple remedy, just use PGP or sign a message from a Bitcoin address that is known to be held by the original owner of the account. But again, account selling isn't banned not just for scam prevention reasons, its not banned for pseudonymity's sake. This forum is about conversation and discussion of technology over the marketplace section. The marketplace is a secondary concern, rules wont change that effect the forum's primary objective to help better a secondary feature. Imagine if Gavin Andersen wanted to get into a fight with some people over some political issue. If he did that from his Gavin Andersen account, that could negatively effect other work he is doing. Account selling isn't banned

The "we need to allow account selling to allow pseudonymity" is absurd in more ways than one.
This account, for instance, was not bought. Wanna guess how I got it? That's right, I made a new one. You think Gavin could figure something like that out? Or do you suppose he's gonna log in to digital goods section of this forum, and start haggling with some scumbag dealer?

I mean, seriously?

Quote
And

A) Because it would be unenforcable
B) There are places where having multiple accounts allows people to speak their mind without fear of backlash from others.

You repeating yourself, in ever-tightening sequences. Please scroll up.

[...]
Of course you were forced to admit it. Shall I drag up the post where you, posting under ACCTSeller, refuse to admit to being a sock, and demand me to prove it?
Getting a bit old Undecided

waiting for this post please.

This: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1034655.0
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April 26, 2015, 01:32:18 AM
 #49

You don't seem to really get it. Account selling is unenforceable, that is a matter of fact. You can stop trying to relate it to murder because that is completely different. A better analogy would be between banning account selling and the war on drugs (but we don't have police officers). Trying to enforce something that you can't causes additional issues which in this case are worse than the act of account selling.

My mention of pseudonmity is why alternate accounts are allowed, and as long as alternate accounts are allowed, you can't stop account selling. Pay to spam advertising is another issue entirely, and as I've said two or three times now, something that is being worked on.

My focus on the grand scam, is because that is the only downside to account selling. Not being able to verify that the person you are trading with is the person you are trading with, which can be remedied by use of PGP or a little caution. TAT's last post being strange does not prove that account selling had anything to do with it. My point being that in five years account selling has been a non issue, so why make it one?

I sometimes summarize my points because I'm used to people not reading them. Sue me  Grin

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April 26, 2015, 01:52:04 AM
 #50

>Account selling is unenforceable, that is a matter of fact.
Account selling right on this forum is an embarrassment & takes away whatever vestige of credibility this forum has.
It's like inviting pickpockets to stay in your living room & letting them shit on your carpet while screwing your daughter, all because you've decided that petty crime is "unenforceable."

It's unenforceable only if you suck at your job. But you don't even want to enforce it - you admitted you wouldn't be happy with 99% reduction, so why harp on enforcibility?

>My focus on the grand scam, is because that is the only downside to account selling.
You're clearly trying to provoke an insult from me, but I take pride in my patience. Allow me to suggest you reread my replies until you  learn of the other downsides of account selling.

>My point being that in five years account selling has been a non issue, so why make it one?
Because now most of auctions/digital goods are frickin' bitcointalk accounts. Shit's never a problem until it is.


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April 26, 2015, 02:27:32 AM
 #51

Which point would you refute? The fact that people sell their accounts because they need money? That people scam because they need money? Or that when people have one way to get money cut off they will naturally try another way to get money?

>The fact that people sell their accounts because they need money?
People who sell their accounts for money are too stupid to scam. I mean, come on, a year's wort of posting for a couple of hundred bucks, tops?
They're no more of a threat than a leprosied beggar. Repulsive? Yes. Gagworty? For sure. Potential dangerous scammers? Lol.

>That people scam because they need money?
People scam for the same reason dogs lick their balls - because they can.

>Or that when people have one way to get money cut off they will naturally try another way to get money?
Yeah, and thwarted rapists would try to rape again, and thwarted thieves would try to steal. None of that implies that I should invite them to rape ME or steal from ME tho.

It's a big would out there, with plenty of rapables and stealables. Not gonna make bitcointalk the low-hanging fruit for second-rate crooks, let 'em get out & get some exercise.
Smiley
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April 26, 2015, 02:28:32 AM
 #52

>Account selling is unenforceable, that is a matter of fact.
Account selling right on this forum is an embarrassment & takes away whatever vestige of credibility this forum has.
It's like inviting pickpockets to stay in your living room & letting them shit on your carpet while screwing your daughter, all because you've decided that petty crime is "unenforceable."

It's unenforceable only if you suck at your job. But you don't even want to enforce it - you admitted you wouldn't be happy with 99% reduction, so why harp on enforcibility?

>My focus on the grand scam, is because that is the only downside to account selling.
You're clearly trying to provoke an insult from me, but I take pride in my patience. Allow me to suggest you reread my replies until you  learn of the other downsides of account selling.

>My point being that in five years account selling has been a non issue, so why make it one?
Because now most of auctions/digital goods are frickin' bitcointalk accounts. Shit's never a problem until it is.


Don't worry, this is just as time consuming for me. I've thought about the downsides of account selling for about 3 years now, this isn't a new topic and you aren't blowing my mind with your arguments. You keep trying to compare account selling to crimes and using that as your points, which is 100% completely wrong. Would the forums ban account selling if it was enforcable (which it is not) I dont know, maybe. However we aren't in that position, so for the time being Account Selling is Legal. we have already addressed the downsides as non issues, and you try to justify your points by drawing unequivical parallels between real world crimes that harm people, murder, theft, damage of property, and rape, to selling someone's account. This conversation isn't going anywhere unless you point out Exactly what you percieve as embarrassing or bad about account selling. Because every time I try to adress something that you haven't specifically said, you refute that what I'm saying was ever one of your intentions.

So regarding your post that I've quoted above. Why is it an embarrassment, what credibility does the forum claim to have, and why is it removed because you can sell or buy an account? Account selling and buying is  unenforcable on all accounts, not based on my performance, based on the technology available on the internet. How am I going to catch someone who is buying or selling an account through IRC? What technology exists where I can identify one user or another any better than you can? Banning something that you can't enforce doesn't eliminate it, it just drives it underground to a place where no one can see it taking place. If I banned Quickseller for selling accounts, would he leave the forums forever, or would he make a new account and be sneakier about his business? And again, what is the problem with accounts being actively purchased or sold?

We have addressed scams, we have addressed spam, you have yet to provide another reason why account selling is good/bad/embarrassing that is a real reason. I appreciate you taking the time to have this discussion, but if you actually want to voice your concerns you have to do so in a way that can be read and interpreted.

*edit*

Which point would you refute? The fact that people sell their accounts because they need money? That people scam because they need money? Or that when people have one way to get money cut off they will naturally try another way to get money?

>The fact that people sell their accounts because they need money?
People who sell their accounts for money are too stupid to scam. I mean, come on, a year's wort of posting for a couple of hundred bucks, tops?
They're no more of a threat than a leprosied beggar. Repulsive? Yes. Gagworty? For sure. Potential dangerous scammers? Lol.

>That people scam because they need money?
People scam for the same reason dogs lick their balls - because they can.

>Or that when people have one way to get money cut off they will naturally try another way to get money?
Yeah, and thwarted rapists would try to rape again, and thwarted thieves would try to steal. None of that implies that I should invite them to rape ME or steal from ME tho.

It's a big would out there, with plenty of rapables and stealables. Not gonna make bitcointalk the low-hanging fruit for second-rate crooks, let 'em get out & get some exercise.
Smiley

See now you are just forgoing logic to try and win the argument. Scammers scam because they want to, not for the money? Come on. Again you keep trying to compare account buyers/sellers to rapists or thieves. Giving people a false sense of security by saying, don't worry you are safe, that account couldn't have been sold because its against the rules is what creates easy marks. Right now, people of Bitcointalk are probably the hardest people to steal from in the world. It still happens, but people here are taught quickly that anyone and everyone will take their money if given a chance. If we provide a safety net that would allow disallusioned people to let their guards down, they they are easy to steal from.

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April 26, 2015, 02:39:10 AM
 #53

[...]
Don't worry, this is just as time consuming for me. I've thought about the downsides of account selling for about 3 years now, this isn't a new topic and you aren't blowing my mind with your arguments. You keep trying to compare account selling to crimes and using that as your points, which is 100% completely wrong.

When discussing enforceability, what would you have me compare it to?

The TL;DR I'm getting from you is
  1. A ban on account dealing is unenforceable.
  2. Even if it was, I wouldn't do it, because there's nothing wrong with buying & selling forum accounts.
Is this summation correct?
If not, which (1 or 2) do you disagree with?

Will save some time Smiley

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April 26, 2015, 02:42:33 AM
 #54

[...]
Don't worry, this is just as time consuming for me. I've thought about the downsides of account selling for about 3 years now, this isn't a new topic and you aren't blowing my mind with your arguments. You keep trying to compare account selling to crimes and using that as your points, which is 100% completely wrong.

When discussing enforceability, what would you have me compare it to?

The TL;DR I'm getting from you is
  1. A ban on account dealing is unenforceable.
  2. Even if it was, I wouldn't do it, because there's nothing wrong with buying & selling forum accounts.
Is this summation correct?
If not, which (1 or 2) do you disagree with?

Will save some time Smiley



Correct, a ban on account dealing is unenforcable. If it was enforcable, I dont know, it would then be up to Theymos to decide if there was a rule against it or not. If he decided it was against the rules, I'd enforce that. If it wasn't against the rules, then I wouldn't.

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April 26, 2015, 02:51:15 AM
 #55

[...]
See now you are just forgoing logic to try and win the argument. Scammers scam because they want to, not for the money?

Scammers scam because THEY CAN. Please read more carefully. The thrust of the argument is mke it so that they CAN NOT scam, and you don't have to worry about WHY they scam.
See?

Quote
Come on. Again you keep trying to compare account buyers/sellers to rapists or thieves.

Unfair to rapists and thieves, or to account dealers? Not seeing your point.

Quote
Giving people a false sense of security by saying, don't worry you are safe, that account couldn't have been sold because its against the rules [...]

Where do you get this stuff? When you pack your kid's lunch, do you tell her "pumpkin, if anyone invites you to their house for some free candy, you go right ahead, because child molestation is illegal!"

I mean, does anyone else fall for such lulzy false dichotomies? Cheesy

...
Correct, a ban on account dealing is unenforcable. If it was enforcable, I dont know, it would then be up to Theymos to decide if there was a rule against it or not. If he decided it was against the rules, I'd enforce that. If it wasn't against the rules, then I wouldn't.

In other words, you're a pawn, a clerk who'll do whatever you're told, even if it's against logic, common sense and your own beliefs.
And I've just spent hours talking to you.
Thanks for wasting my time.
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April 26, 2015, 03:08:16 AM
 #56

Scammers scam for the money, not because its fun. What human psychology books are you reading? Again you are trying to pump bullshit into the conversation talking about my kids' lunch. The users here aren't 6 years old kids, I'm just going to stop responding to points you make with misleading comparisons. I don't need to protect the adults on this forum, they are free to be as smart or stupid with their money as they wish.

This isn't my site. I don't get to pick and choose what rules I obey or enforce, if I didn't agree with the rules, I wouldn't be here, and I'd suggest the same for you. If you have a problem with it, you are welcome to leave. You are also welcome to stay and disagree with the rules, just keep in mind that because you are allowed to disagree with whatever you want doesn't give you the right to spam. (That was premptive, I mention this so you don't have to mention it in your next reply)

And with this, I know that you don't care about the practice of account selling, this is an attempt at bashing Quickseller. There are about 20 other threads doing the same, I'd recommend joining them. You are a week or two late for the Vod threads, but stick around, after Quickseller I'm sure there will be another.
Quote
Come on. Again you keep trying to compare account buyers/sellers to rapists or thieves.
Quote
Unfair to rapists and thieves, or to account dealers? Not seeing your point.

Quote
Thanks for wasting my time.

<3 Saltyspitoon

You know Supa, you could just use one of your 30 other Alt accounts, if you haven't been banned on them yet, why would you think you would be banned now?

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April 26, 2015, 03:21:43 AM
 #57

IDK why supa even dislikes me so much. All I did was tag one of his alts, and declined to remove my negative trust when requested by him, even though the negative trust I left is "against the rules".

I take it as a compliment when scammers open up these kinds of threads against me, although I really haven't done anything to pill off supa

Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
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April 26, 2015, 03:22:15 AM
 #58

[...]
And with this, I know that you don't care about the practice of account selling, this is an attempt at bashing Quickseller.
[...]

Lol, is this what you really think? That's what you've been doing here? Defending your skeezy boyfriend? Well, color me impressed! Undecided
Allrighty, gg.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS92xBL0OARNDWFqbwkePIZPgG_m3NfvtOFIZm3Ymnj8Q64xW63
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April 26, 2015, 03:26:50 AM
 #59

[...]
And with this, I know that you don't care about the practice of account selling, this is an attempt at bashing Quickseller.
[...]

Lol, is this what you really think? That's what you've been doing here,m defending your skeezy boyfriend? Color me impressed Undecided
Allrighty, gg.



Hehe, good one. I did do a trade with quickseller once, was a pretty smooth transaction. We even used PGP so I was sure that he didn't sell his account. Alas, I'm too nervous to ask him to go steady though. Oh well.

I'm actually more impressed with myself that you are Supa. I was pretty sure based on something you had said, but I figured if I was wrong, I could still claim it was my point that it is hard to keep people from trading alt accounts as I can't establish ownership of an account any better than yourself. Moderators don't have access to anything IP related, and we can't check anything about user accounts out of the ordinary.

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April 26, 2015, 03:34:51 AM
 #60

[...]
I'm actually more impressed with myself that you are Supa. I was pretty sure based on something you had said, but I figured if I was wrong, I could still claim it was my point that it is hard to keep people from trading alt accounts as I can't establish ownership of an account any better than yourself. Moderators don't have access to anything IP related, and we can't check anything about user accounts out of the ordinary.

Thus far, I've been accused of being this guy

http://s2.postimg.org/vhwqk2e49/Capture.png

by two people, of being tspacepilot by one, and Supa by you. This account is only a few days old & the polls are still open.
Don't forget to call in, internet sleuths!
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April 26, 2015, 03:43:36 AM
 #61

P.S. That guy in the gif? He penned another article, you bitcointalk staffers are internet famous Cheesy

http://s12.postimg.org/rpvs3eeot/Capture.png
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April 26, 2015, 03:47:55 AM
 #62

Well, this topic will probably be locked soon, but last thing I'd like to mention since you have spammed that image a few times now. Come now, if you have been allowed to be as much of a pain in the ass as you have, do you really think Bitcointalk staff are silently banning people? The link here: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcointalk-staff-quietly-bans-people-speaking/

it looks like utter clickbait from a no name crypto currency journal. Did you read the story? From the headline It looks like some guy was banned because he sent unsolicited PMs and his alts were also banned. Then if you keep reading, its no longer about any sort of bans, its about how their organization is legit and has journalistic standards.

Moderators can't ban people, Global moderators can only perma ban people, and Admins are the ones who handle the vast majority of the bans. Come now Supa, you should be ashamed to be promoting an article that is a fraction of the quality that you could write yourself.

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