[ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming)

[IBGigglin]

[georgem]

How about the big elephant in Bitcoin's room.  Is there a way a SpreadCoin service node could incentivise somebody to run a full bitcoin node?

Interesting question.

Running a full bitcoin node will always be a purely voluntary act.

There is also a feedback effect in work: people who are longterm invested in BTC are also automatically the people who will run a full bitcoin node (or keep on mining) indefinitely,
because for them this is like some kind of insurance.

They understand that without their help the perceived value of the BTC they hold vanishes...

So in their mind, I don't think that they need any additional incentives to do something that is healthy for the network.

So your question I guess is more about... how can we incentivise someone to run a full bitcoin node who doesn't own any BTC at all?

....

Now, if we as a network of a few thousand servicenodes could have a bitcoin node installed on each of our service nodes, than this would serve bitcoin well.
Maybe if this decentralized searchengine is also a giant decentralized blockexplorer? Then we could help all cryptocoins (we take in) and they would be incentivised to help us... by buying SPR I guess...

[stonehedge]

Er, yes....obviously that is what I meant!   

With media stories like the below Bitcoin could do with more full nodes.  As you correctly point out, the incentive would have to be aimed at people with no or few BTC.

http://www.coindesk.com/chainalysis-ceo-denies-launching-sybil-attack-on-bitcoin-network/

[stonehedge]

How about the big elephant in Bitcoin's room.  Is there a way a SpreadCoin service node could incentivise somebody to run a full bitcoin node?

Now, if we as a network of a few thousand servicenodes could have a bitcoin node installed on each of our service nodes, than this would serve bitcoin well.
Maybe if this decentralized searchengine is also a giant decentralized blockexplorer? Then we could help all cryptocoins (we take in) and they would be incentivised to help us... by buying SPR I guess...

Or solo mining it (SPR)...

[jjjordan]

That means we will need a decentralised browser  

EXACTLY right.

I've been dreaming about a decentralized browser since the days I went "all in" on namecoin about two years ago, lol.

A decentralized in-wallet browser with blockchain access also finally makes it easy to browse those *.bit (namecoin) or...

let's say *.coin (spreadcoin) domains?

And so the endless realms of possibilities begin.

Yep, you know what... let's wait with the roadmap, I'd rather chat with you guys a little longer and gather more material.
But what I will put online later is the next immediate "TO DO" list for the month of may.

I am not sure if this has been posted earlier in the old thread, but here it is: http://yacy.net/en/index.html
Decentralized P2P search network. It's been out there since 2006. It might be worth taking a look, GeorgeM.

[georgem]

How about the big elephant in Bitcoin's room.  Is there a way a SpreadCoin service node could incentivise somebody to run a full bitcoin node?

Now, if we as a network of a few thousand servicenodes could have a bitcoin node installed on each of our service nodes, than this would serve bitcoin well.
Maybe if this decentralized searchengine is also a giant decentralized blockexplorer? Then we could help all cryptocoins (we take in) and they would be incentivised to help us... by buying SPR I guess...

Or solo mining it (SPR)...

Help them so they help us.
I like this.

If we could somehow force any servicenode to also run a full bitcoin-node, this would immediately be something of value to the whole cryptoworld, not just SPR.

More such ideas please!

[georgem]

That means we will need a decentralised browser  

EXACTLY right.

I've been dreaming about a decentralized browser since the days I went "all in" on namecoin about two years ago, lol.

A decentralized in-wallet browser with blockchain access also finally makes it easy to browse those *.bit (namecoin) or...

let's say *.coin (spreadcoin) domains?

And so the endless realms of possibilities begin.

Yep, you know what... let's wait with the roadmap, I'd rather chat with you guys a little longer and gather more material.
But what I will put online later is the next immediate "TO DO" list for the month of may.

I am not sure if this has been posted earlier in the old thread, but here it is: http://yacy.net/en/index.html
Decentralized P2P search network. It's been out there since 2006. It might be worth taking a look, GeorgeM.

Yes it has been posted, but thanks anyway for mentioning it.

I am looking into YaCy and there also other ones like faroo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAROO) and scholarninja (http://juretriglav.si/an-open-distributed-search-engine-for-science/)

But they all seem to not be very much used by anybody...
probably most of the people just got too much used to the results google gives and don't like other formats... hm...

[defunctec]

Please add https://spr.suprnova.cc as pool!

Please add the pool to the OP

Any miner in any assumed pool can always just steal the block reward instead of following the rules set up by the pool.

It's for your own good that I don't put your pool in the OP.
         

Nope, they cannot, i have fixed that already long time ago.

Noone can steal anything as everything gets encrypted

Are your miners here open source?

https://spr.suprnova.cc/index.php?page=gettingstarted

Yes, they are all on my github, just the encryption key (256 bit) is secret. Did you follow the old thread?

There were parts that I skipped over I admit  , I will have to read it first...

It's all open source.

All that special stuff which had been built in to prevent pools has been fully encrypted by me, no one can read the privkeys.

I just stopped work on the pool stuff since the interest on the coin literally vanished, hopefully it comes back. Several other pools had contacted me also to help them setting up the encryption stuff, so probably if price goes up, more pools will be available.

Oh and I would be glad to make the pool 0% Fee if that helps..  It is a community thing..

Of course you are always able to Solo

It's quite the predicament.

I agree with ocminer that more pools will come to life if the price of spreadcoin keeps rising.

At the same time I wouldn't like the promotion of any pools in the OP, we need promotion of solo.

But I feel its only ethical to make it 1000% crystal clear that there are pools, that work.

Nice work georgem, website is shit hot.

[georgem]

It's quite the predicament.

I agree with ocminer that more pools will come to life if the price of spreadcoin keeps rising.

At the same time I wouldn't like the promotion of any pools in the OP, we need promotion of solo.

But I feel its only ethical to make it 1000% crystal clear that there are pools, that work.

Yes they work as long as everybody plays nice, and doesn't try to use the protocol rules (instead of whatever "prepared" mining software they use) which are in their favour (or not - in the case of the pools)

Nice work georgem, website is shit hot.

Best compliment I recieved today, thanks.

[ocminer]

It's quite the predicament.

I agree with ocminer that more pools will come to life if the price of spreadcoin keeps rising.

At the same time I wouldn't like the promotion of any pools in the OP, we need promotion of solo.

But I feel its only ethical to make it 1000% crystal clear that there are pools, that work.

Yes they work as long as everybody plays nice, and doesn't try to use the protocol rules which are in their favour (or not - in the case of the pools)

Thats not true george, the pools work like all the other pools - no one can steal anything, just some adaption was needed and done.

Nice work georgem, website is shit hot.

Best compliment I recieved today, thanks.

The Site is nice, THATS true

[coins101]

How about the big elephant in Bitcoin's room.  Is there a way a SpreadCoin service node could incentivise somebody to run a full bitcoin node?

Interesting question.

Running a full bitcoin node will always be a purely voluntary act.

There is also a feedback effect in work: people who are longterm invested in BTC are also automatically the people who will run a full bitcoin node (or keep on mining) indefinitely,
because for them this is like some kind of insurance.

They understand that without their help the perceived value of the BTC they hold vanishes...

So in their mind, I don't think that they need any additional incentives to do something that is healthy for the network.

So your question I guess is more about... how can we incentivise someone to run a full bitcoin node who doesn't own any BTC at all?

....

Now, if we as a network of a few thousand servicenodes could have a bitcoin node installed on each of our service nodes, than this would serve bitcoin well.
Maybe if this decentralized searchengine is also a giant decentralized blockexplorer? Then we could help all cryptocoins (we take in) and they would be incentivised to help us... by buying SPR I guess...

Funny you should mention incentives to people running a full bitcoin node.

I started a thread about that a few days ago.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042639.msg11238697#msg11238697

So maybe, to run a servicenode, you also need to run a full bitcoin node.

That would stop people spamming the servicenode network with dummy accounts to get a share of rewards.

 

[coins101]

For servicenodes owners, it would be nice to have the option not to run a service in their area.

I think this has already been discussed or raised.

That means that any services that are illegal in a particular area, they can still be legally operated by the network with transactions taking place in countries where the services are not illegal.

[georgem]

Thats not true george, the pools work like all the other pools - no one can steal anything, just some adaption was needed and done.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until I understand every last byte of Mr. Spread's code. (not just syntactically but semantically)
Meanwhile I am still not going to post your pool (for now).

The Site is nice, THATS true

Thanks.

[georgem]

Funny you should mention incentives to people running a full bitcoin node.

I started a thread about that a few days ago.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042639.msg11238697#msg11238697

So maybe, to run a servicenode, you also need to run a full bitcoin node.

That would stop people spamming the servicenode network with dummy accounts to get a share of rewards.

 

The more I hear about this idea the more I like it.
And it shouldn't be that hard to implement this as the first "service" the servicenodes are going to provide.

[coins101]

Funny you should mention incentives to people running a full bitcoin node.

I started a thread about that a few days ago.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042639.msg11238697#msg11238697

So maybe, to run a servicenode, you also need to run a full bitcoin node.

That would stop people spamming the servicenode network with dummy accounts to get a share of rewards.

 

The more I hear about this idea the more I like it.
And it shouldn't be that hard to implement this as the first "service" the servicenodes are going to provide.

Cool.

We can write the PR articles over the next few weeks and get them out to our new PR contacts.

Maybe we can get the Bitcoin core devs and the Bitcoin Foundation running a couple of ServiceNodes 

[stonehedge]

Funny you should mention incentives to people running a full bitcoin node.

I started a thread about that a few days ago.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042639.msg11238697#msg11238697

So maybe, to run a servicenode, you also need to run a full bitcoin node.

That would stop people spamming the servicenode network with dummy accounts to get a share of rewards.

 

The more I hear about this idea the more I like it.
And it shouldn't be that hard to implement this as the first "service" the servicenodes are going to provide.

Cool.

We can write the PR articles over the next few weeks and get them out to our new PR contacts.

Maybe we can get the Bitcoin core devs and the Bitcoin Foundation running a couple of ServiceNodes 

Oooh PR!  Can I help?

[coins101]

...
So maybe, to run a servicenode, you also need to run a full bitcoin node.
..

The more I hear about this idea the more I like it.
And it shouldn't be that hard to implement this as the first "service" the servicenodes are going to provide.

Cool.

We can write the PR articles over the next few weeks and get them out to our new PR contacts.

Maybe we can get the Bitcoin core devs and the Bitcoin Foundation running a couple of ServiceNodes  

Oooh PR!  Can I help?

Sounds like a plan is forming.

Press, Bitcoin Magazine, CoindDesk, Let's talk Bitcoin, etc.

I can see the headlines: Spreadcoin saves Bitcoin.

[georgem]

We can write the PR articles over the next few weeks and get them out to our new PR contacts.

Maybe we can get the Bitcoin core devs and the Bitcoin Foundation running a couple of ServiceNodes  

I will work on my own implementation of servicenodes and hopefully have something for testnet ready by the end of this month.

First I always thought I would let those first servicenodes do some kind of "empty" service just for testing sake,
but it could very well be that their first service will be around how to "insure" that every servicenode is running a full bitcoin node,
and not trying to game the system, as this user in your thread correctly emphasizes:

The problem is identifying who really is a full node. You can set up thousands of "ghost nodes" that are just passthrough gateways for the same node but  will look like multiple different ones.
The moment you start with paid incentives, you have to try to fend off everyone that is trying to game the system.

And this problem could be harder to solve than it sounds: proving that you run a full node.

What plays in our favour is that we are not trying to "tip" full nodes, we just want to check if our servicenodes are running full bitcoin nodes at all times,
and if they don't, then they are simply kicked out.
If they are ok, they simply remain in the club and recieve their fix SPR payment... (30% of every block or something along that line)

[coins101]

We can write the PR articles over the next few weeks and get them out to our new PR contacts.

Maybe we can get the Bitcoin core devs and the Bitcoin Foundation running a couple of ServiceNodes  

I will work on my own implementation of servicenodes and hopefully have something for testnet ready by the end of this month.

First I always thought I would let those first servicenodes do some kind of "empty" service just for testing sake,
but it could very well be that their first service will be around how to "insure" that every servicenode is running a full bitcoin node,
and not trying to game the system, as this user in your thread correctly emphasizes:

The problem is identifying who really is a full node. You can set up thousands of "ghost nodes" that are just passthrough gateways for the same node but  will look like multiple different ones.
The moment you start with paid incentives, you have to try to fend off everyone that is trying to game the system.

And this problem could be harder to solve than it sounds: proving that you run a full node.

But if you create the servicenode protocol, you can be in charge of how it launches to be accepted by the network.

That should be super easy to police.

> If bitcoin node closed, close servicenode.
> If bitcoin node client not xxxx, close servicenode.
> Bitcoin wallet can be zero balance.

[stonehedge]

We can write the PR articles over the next few weeks and get them out to our new PR contacts.

Maybe we can get the Bitcoin core devs and the Bitcoin Foundation running a couple of ServiceNodes 

I will work on my own implementation of servicenodes and hopefully have something for testnet ready by the end of this month.

First I always thought I would let those first servicenodes do some kind of "empty" service just for testing sake,
but it could very well be that their first service will be around how to "insure" that every servicenode is running a full bitcoin node,
and not trying to game the system, as this user in your thread correctly emphasizes:

The problem is identifying who really is a full node. You can set up thousands of "ghost nodes" that are just passthrough gateways for the same node but  will look like multiple different ones.
The moment you start with paid incentives, you have to try to fend off everyone that is trying to game the system.

And this problem could be harder to solve than it sounds: proving that you run a full node.

But if you create the servicenode protocol, you can be in charge of how it launches to be accepted by the network.

I love the idea of a symbiotic relationship between SPR and BTC.  Obviously we'd be the tiny little fish picking scraps from its teeth but its a great starting point for servicenodes nonetheless.  A perfect demonstration of the potential of a service node "payload".

I have to say George, I'm still very sceptical about having a cap on the number of masternodes that moves with coin supply. I'd love to have a discussion in more detail on this.  The Darkcoin model of 1000DRK to buy in and the market value of 1000DRK will determine how many people have masternodes (some will cash out at points etc).  That model is tried and tested and I can't quite understand the benefits of the proposed SPR method yet. 

I thought I understood it a few days ago but the more I think about it, the fewer benefits I can define.