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Author Topic: HungerCoins Invest: The odds are ever in your favor.  (Read 14254 times)
rjbtc
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August 31, 2012, 04:45:46 PM
 #61

Your "experiment" won't be that accurate because you are asking lenders to lend to a complete unknown.  Few will do that compared to other situations.

Give us a name and address, facebook account.  Prove FB by posting "bitcoin hunger games" on your wall.

Or prove you control a bunch of coins.



What does a facebook account really prove? My wife used to be into Farmville, etc and I probably have 10 facebook "accounts" some complete with 100s of friends and at least a history of playing games.

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thezerg
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August 31, 2012, 05:08:29 PM
 #62

Your "experiment" won't be that accurate because you are asking lenders to lend to a complete unknown.  Few will do that compared to other situations.

Give us a name and address, facebook account.  Prove FB by posting "bitcoin hunger games" on your wall.

Or prove you control a bunch of coins.



What does a facebook account really prove? My wife used to be into Farmville, etc and I probably have 10 facebook "accounts" some complete with 100s of friends and at least a history of playing games.

Not much but you could look at it and at least separate the long from the short con.  Proving a RL to internet mapping to people who can only interact with you via the internet is a fascinating problem... even if he put "bitcoin hunger games" on his company site you could still imagine that the site was hacked...
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August 31, 2012, 05:37:56 PM
 #63

I hope my explanation is clear and simple enough. Thanks.

No, I don't understand.

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?

How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 01:22:49 AM
 #64

I hope my explanation is clear and simple enough. Thanks.

No, I don't understand.

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?

To those willing to borrow it. A lot of them in lending subforum. Besides, playing satoshi dice is an equivalent of borrowing at 1% interest or more every 10 seconds or less. And they just hit 1 million bets recently. That just means there is no problem on the lending side. There is no short supply of people who are willing to borrow. Visa and Mastercard proves that.
VelvetLeaf
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September 01, 2012, 03:59:14 AM
 #65

You recently raise the waiting time to be 7 confirmations.
So, the waiting time will be longer and longer.
I'd imagine later people will have to wait until 500 - 1000 confirmations before they receive their money back.

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iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 06:51:23 AM
 #66

You recently raise the waiting time to be 7 confirmations.
So, the waiting time will be longer and longer.
I'd imagine later people will have to wait until 500 - 1000 confirmations before they receive their money back.

It will be increased until 144 or less in a gradual way. Maybe an additional 1 to 4 confirmations per day. 144 confirmations is about 24 hours.

Also, soon a new receiving address will be announced where the confirmations will be fixed to 2. Details will be announced in a new thread. It is a new lottery system slightly different than this.
Luke-Jr
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September 01, 2012, 07:30:27 AM
 #67

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

AndyRossy
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September 01, 2012, 07:34:51 AM
 #68

Why not make it support either 0.25, or 1, 2 or 5 or something, with same %'s?
iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 07:46:28 AM
 #69

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems? I'm currently preparing HungerCoins Lottery, HungerCoins Invest, and HungerCoins Lending programs based on this beta test since I want it rolled out and announced this weekend and I have to stop to answer you and ask you if you are seriously asking me that? And what would stop me from using custom receiving address and custom payout address for each bettor or for each transaction? I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue. Are you a bitcoin developer? Let us hear from Gavin since I thought I heard him he does not have a problem with the technical side of it. I know he is worried with the intentions of HungerCoins and that is understandable. As I said it will take time.
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September 01, 2012, 07:51:20 AM
 #70

Why not make it support either 0.25, or 1, 2 or 5 or something, with same %'s?

This is the plan. Different receiving addresses for different amounts/confirmations.

Currently finishing up the programs and we will be offering 3 different products:
HungerCoins Lottery
HungerCoins Invest
HungerCoins Lending

It will be individually rolled out as soon as each is ready.
This specific beta test will be used for HC Lottery and HC Invest. For HC Invest, the interests will just start on the conservative side (low interest payments per 24hours or 144 confirmations) then gradually increase it (effective interest) as the market becomes competitive.
Luke-Jr
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September 01, 2012, 07:55:17 AM
 #71

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.
Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems?
Yes, I've blacklisted other known attacks. (Edit: the blacklist is on the transaction relay/inclusion policy for the Eligius mining pool, #bitcoin-watch, and any other miners who have merged my patch, and not currently easily expanded to new addresses)

I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue.
It's the only way that can be done overnight. Continuing to attack the network, and building up more attacks is certainly not the way to handle it.

Are you a bitcoin developer?
In fact, I'm the only developer so far (AFAIK) who has even tried to take a stab at fixing the problem you are exploiting (though I found it to be too complicated to fix than I have time for at the moment). But that's not really all that important: what matters is that this disrupts the network for everyone and has could trivially be done in a way that doesn't.

iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 08:04:32 AM
 #72

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.
Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems?
Yes, I've blacklisted other known attacks. (Edit: the blacklist is on the transaction relay/inclusion policy for the Eligius mining pool, #bitcoin-watch, and any other miners who have merged my patch, and not currently easily expanded to new addresses)

I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue.
It's the only way that can be done overnight. Continuing to attack the network, and building up more attacks is certainly not the way to handle it.

Are you a bitcoin developer?
In fact, I'm the only developer so far (AFAIK) who has even tried to take a stab at fixing the problem you are exploiting (though I found it to be too complicated to fix than I have time for at the moment). But that's not really all that important: what matters is that this disrupts the network for everyone and has could trivially be done in a way that doesn't.

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business? I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.
May I know which programs/service you blacklisted?
iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 08:07:10 AM
 #73

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.
Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems?
Yes, I've blacklisted other known attacks. (Edit: the blacklist is on the transaction relay/inclusion policy for the Eligius mining pool, #bitcoin-watch, and any other miners who have merged my patch, and not currently easily expanded to new addresses)

I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue.
It's the only way that can be done overnight. Continuing to attack the network, and building up more attacks is certainly not the way to handle it.

Are you a bitcoin developer?
In fact, I'm the only developer so far (AFAIK) who has even tried to take a stab at fixing the problem you are exploiting (though I found it to be too complicated to fix than I have time for at the moment). But that's not really all that important: what matters is that this disrupts the network for everyone and has could trivially be done in a way that doesn't.

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business? I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.
May I know which programs/services you blacklisted?

And how do you plan to stop those doing a custom receiving address and custom payout address per transaction? I can also do that.
Luke-Jr
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September 01, 2012, 08:09:12 AM
 #74

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business?
Just implement what you need in a way that doesn't encourage people to abuse the network. If someone wants to spend 50 BTC on your service, let them send 50 BTC instead of demanding they chop it up in 200 pieces. In some cases (this one sounds like one), it makes sense to keep a side-side balance so a single withdrawl transaction can be made when they are done.

I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.
The only reason I even found your service was because it was flooding #Bitcoin-Watch to the point of crowding out the normal traffic.

May I know which programs/service you blacklisted?
The only other one that has been as disruptive so far is SatoshiDice.

iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 08:13:56 AM
 #75

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business?
Just implement what you need in a way that doesn't encourage people to abuse the network. If someone wants to spend 50 BTC on your service, let them send 50 BTC instead of demanding they chop it up in 200 pieces. In some cases (this one sounds like one), it makes sense to keep a side-side balance so a single withdrawl transaction can be made when they are done.

I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.
The only reason I even found your service was because it was flooding #Bitcoin-Watch to the point of crowding out the normal traffic.

May I know which programs/service you blacklisted?
The only other one that has been as disruptive so far is SatoshiDice.

Thanks for your reply. For HC Invest, I plan to put different addresses for 0.25, 0.5, 1, and 5 bitcoins and the payout will be every 144 confirmations. I hope that will be fair with you. Do you agree?

For HC Lottery, it's a single 0.10 or 0.25 bet and payout every 2 confirmations. This one, I'm not sure how disruptive. Any suggestions?

For HC Lending, well this is a slow one. We will lend probably on a weekly basis. Not finalized yet.
iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 08:17:18 AM
 #76

I think this is only disruptive for now because of short confirmations and small amounts. I'm gradually increasing it anyway.
iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 09:09:27 AM
 #77

Hello everyone,

Thanks for taking part in this. I am increasing the confirmation to 144 in about 4 hours from now. It will mean your payment will be sent after about 24 hours from your bet. I would assume most of you will stop. It is still a good investment scheme for you but I'm sure it will greatly slow down the bitcoin attack scenario. This will still run indefinitely and other services will still be added for different amounts of bets/investments. 144 confirmations, I assume is a sustainable setting for us, although unattractive for you. If you stop sending, we would understand. Thanks for participating.

The original post will be edited to reflect this change in a while to provide sufficient warning. However, the actual change will be done 4 hours from now. It means all bets placed 4 hours from now shall follow a 24 hour window before it will be processed/returned. Thanks.

Watch out for roll outs of our other products:

HungerCoins Lottery
HungerCoins Invest
HungerCoins Lending
iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 09:24:15 AM
 #78

Or you can altogether stop sending and wait for just our final product that will hopefully not be considered a bitcoin attack. Although the 144 confirmation increase will probably help a lot already easing the network since you can't reuse the same coin within 24 hours. I will just increase it to that level simply because I don't want to manually send it back. Thanks everyone.
Gavin Andresen
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September 01, 2012, 02:29:15 PM
 #79

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?
To those willing to borrow it. A lot of them in lending subforum.

How can Hunger Coin guarantee payback if you are lending the coins to people who may not pay YOU back?

I'm sorry, but "Hunger Invest" and "Hunger Lending" still sound like Ponzi schemes to me.

How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
iamtheone
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September 01, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
 #80

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?
To those willing to borrow it. A lot of them in lending subforum.

How can Hunger Coin guarantee payback if you are lending the coins to people who may not pay YOU back?

I'm sorry, but "Hunger Invest" and "Hunger Lending" still sound like Ponzi schemes to me.


I'm sorry to hear that. All those people in the lending subforum who borrow and lend for profit must all be ponzi schemes too if we follow that logic. And we can also include everyone with credit cards too. Hmmmm, how then do we address it?
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