pirate payments list -- accounts paid: 23/459

[ObviousSock]

He was smart enough to steal 5mil, that isn't kindergarten work.

It is on this forum. For instance, RustyRyan has ~600 BTC and counting.

Historically, stealing bitcoins has no consequences. Either way, thieves steal now and worry about the consequences later.

I think these two spell out the problem in droves...  We have the opinion of "RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.... oh well another theft."  and then it is forgotten.  I have been active in the community for ~7 months and have never heard of RustyRyan, just never read the thread.  So whatever he is doing I could very well be vulnerable to.

While possible, it is unneeded.  It isn't like it is a secret where the coins are.

It kind of is, though. Nobody knows where Pirate is right now, and nobody knows whether he has bitcoins or USD.

But we know they are with pirate....  I don't think anyone suspects any of the PPT operators of stealing the coins.  If it is in bitcoins or USD is not important.

So if you objective were to obtain as much coin as possible then why not do it directly?

Convenience, laziness. People were lining up in droves to pour bitcoins into his scheme, why not let others handle the legwork?

But it really wasn't that much more work.  He could have easily just lowered the min deposit, he already had all the infrastructure in place.  If anything I think it would have been more work with the opaqueness of the PPT for planning withdrawals and what not.

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[Vandroiy]

I didn't claim anyone was at "fault", though that is plainly Pirate and those who gave him money. Trying to warn people of a possible scam should of course be encouraged. Though take it from this newbie, the tone of the discussion has not helped the vibe around this place, and some people on both "teams" have acted disgracefully.

A "vibe" that is includes convenient ignorance, absurd ethics, fraud and lies deserves being disrupted.

Disgrace lies in the eye of the beholder.

[sadpandatech]

I didn't claim anyone was at "fault", though that is plainly Pirate and those who gave him money. Trying to warn people of a possible scam should of course be encouraged. Though take it from this newbie, the tone of the discussion has not helped the vibe around this place, and some people on both "teams" have acted disgracefully.

A "vibe" that is includes convenient ignorance, absurd ethics, fraud and lies deserves being disrupted.

Disgrace lies in the eye of the beholder.

welcome back.

[sauc1er]

Code:

[19:16] <@pirateat40> Total Accounts Repaid: 21/459 (subject to required information)

Since he's paying out again, it might be a good idea to start a new thread.

would be nice to have 21 people confirming this. were they 100% paid?

Oh boy, I hope you get paid. I put quite some coins in my bitcoinmax account? Are 100% of my savings with pirate, e.g. lost?

Do you have the private key to the wallet they're in?

If not, they're not your coins.

Of course not, I invested them. So now that it is pretty clear, that pirate does not pay out, are there any securities in cold storage of bitcoinmax? Will we be reimbursed to some degree or were all the coins fluctuating the whole time and it is really 0 ZERO for bitcoinmax and the investors?

[ErebusBat]

Of course not, I invested them. So now that it is pretty clear, that pirate does not pay out, are there any securities in cold storage of bitcoinmax? Will we be reimbursed to some degree or were all the coins fluctuating the whole time and it is really 0 ZERO for bitcoinmax and the investors?

No there isn't anything in 'cold storage'.  Bitcoinmax was never more than a conduit to BTCS&T and that was made perfectly clear.

payb.tc is free to correct me, but if pirate pays out nothing then we get nothing.

[Tomatocage]

Has there been any communication from Pirate lately?

[myrkul]

Has there been any communication from Pirate lately?

Nope, not a peep. Even his bot has shut up, now.

His OTC rating has dropped by close to 40 points, though.

[Entropy-uc]

But we know they are with pirate....  I don't think anyone suspects any of the PPT operators of stealing the coins.  If it is in bitcoins or USD is not important.

And now the reason for the creation of your sock account is made clear.  You are trying to absolve the PPT operators of any wrongdoing.  Is that you Patrick?

The nature of a Ponzi operation is very simple.  It works as long as the inflow of funds exceeds the outflow.  Once the net flow of funds turns negative the end is inevitable.  It is merely a question of when the scheme folds up.  A more narcissistic operator may be overwhelmed by the high of the attention and adulation he is the recipient of and ride the whole thing down to a negative balance as Madoff nearly did, whereas a calculating thief will pull the plug in fairly short order from the turn in cash flow.

If you want to time a Ponzi, information on the flow of funds is critical.  Knowing when the cashflow turns will always give you advance warning of the endpoint for the process.

PPT operators were ideally situated to have that information and act upon it.  Once a particular fund's flow turns negative, an operator with ill intent could safely start his own shadow Ponzi; holding all deposited funds himself, and increasing withdrawal rates over actual customer demand.  If you are a PPT operator and want absolution, a good starting point would be to disclose your deposit and withdrawal addresses so that there is proof that you continued to flow funds to Trendon in a transparent manner right up until the end.

[Tomatocage]

Has there been any communication from Pirate lately?

Nope, not a peep. Even his bot has shut up, now.

His OTC rating has dropped by close to 40 points, though.

OMG no! Not his OTC rating! How will he ever get by???

Edit: And thanks for the update, even if the news (or lack thereof) is disappointing.

[conspirosphere.tk]

If you want to time a Ponzi, information on the flow of funds is critical.  Knowing when the cashflow turns will always give you advance warning of the endpoint for the process.

Very good explanation, thanks. Then I would suggest to Nefario to give more details on the stocks listed along this line (money flows in & out), so that we can see at any time if anyone passed or is close to the Ponzi Point Of No Return (of your money, or PPONR).

[ObviousSock]

But we know they are with pirate....  I don't think anyone suspects any of the PPT operators of stealing the coins.  If it is in bitcoins or USD is not important.

You are trying to absolve the PPT operators of any wrongdoing.  Is that you Patrick?

The nature of a Ponzi operation is very simple.  It works as long as the inflow of funds exceeds the outflow.  Once the net flow of funds turns negative the end is inevitable.  It is merely a question of when the scheme folds up.  A more narcissistic operator may be overwhelmed by the high of the attention and adulation he is the recipient of and ride the whole thing down to a negative balance as Madoff nearly did, whereas a calculating thief will pull the plug in fairly short order from the turn in cash flow.

If you want to time a Ponzi, information on the flow of funds is critical.  Knowing when the cashflow turns will always give you advance warning of the endpoint for the process.

#1 - I am not PH, but thanks for the compliment.  Also I am not trying to absolve anyone of anything... I am just trying to talk through things that don't make sense in my brain.

#2 - This is *exactly* my point of things that just don't 'add up'.  If I were pirate AND I were running a ponzi then I would not want PPTs for exactly the reason you stated.  It just doesn't make sense.

[Entropy-uc]

But we know they are with pirate....  I don't think anyone suspects any of the PPT operators of stealing the coins.  If it is in bitcoins or USD is not important.

You are trying to absolve the PPT operators of any wrongdoing.  Is that you Patrick?

The nature of a Ponzi operation is very simple.  It works as long as the inflow of funds exceeds the outflow.  Once the net flow of funds turns negative the end is inevitable.  It is merely a question of when the scheme folds up.  A more narcissistic operator may be overwhelmed by the high of the attention and adulation he is the recipient of and ride the whole thing down to a negative balance as Madoff nearly did, whereas a calculating thief will pull the plug in fairly short order from the turn in cash flow.

If you want to time a Ponzi, information on the flow of funds is critical.  Knowing when the cashflow turns will always give you advance warning of the endpoint for the process.

#1 - I am not PH, but thanks for the compliment.  Also I am not trying to absolve anyone of anything... I am just trying to talk through things that don't make sense in my brain.

#2 - This is *exactly* my point of things that just don't 'add up'.  If I were pirate AND I were running a ponzi then I would not want PPTs for exactly the reason you stated.  It just doesn't make sense.

For one thing, it gives him co-conspirators.  They massage his ego, and act as a shield against the truth tellers on the forum.

And now, they may very well be chips he is using to negotiate a more favorable sentence.  Add that to the equation and see if things start making sense in your little woolen brain.

[ObviousSock]

But we know they are with pirate....  I don't think anyone suspects any of the PPT operators of stealing the coins.  If it is in bitcoins or USD is not important.

You are trying to absolve the PPT operators of any wrongdoing.  Is that you Patrick?

The nature of a Ponzi operation is very simple.  It works as long as the inflow of funds exceeds the outflow.  Once the net flow of funds turns negative the end is inevitable.  It is merely a question of when the scheme folds up.  A more narcissistic operator may be overwhelmed by the high of the attention and adulation he is the recipient of and ride the whole thing down to a negative balance as Madoff nearly did, whereas a calculating thief will pull the plug in fairly short order from the turn in cash flow.

If you want to time a Ponzi, information on the flow of funds is critical.  Knowing when the cashflow turns will always give you advance warning of the endpoint for the process.

#1 - I am not PH, but thanks for the compliment.  Also I am not trying to absolve anyone of anything... I am just trying to talk through things that don't make sense in my brain.

#2 - This is *exactly* my point of things that just don't 'add up'.  If I were pirate AND I were running a ponzi then I would not want PPTs for exactly the reason you stated.  It just doesn't make sense.

For one thing, it gives him co-conspirators.  They massage his ego, and act as a shield against the truth tellers on the forum.

While a lot of criminals are very narcissistic and do enjoy the good ego stroke every now and then, it seems like a very high cost (as opposed to having the data).  Although having even the 'backing' of the likes of BurtW, PH, payb.tc, hashking, goat, etc was an in-arguable value.  Maybe he thought that it was big enough he could manage without the extra info.

And now, they may very well be chips he is using to negotiate a more favorable sentence. 

I highly doubt this.  One generally does not pull off a crime of this nature and expect to get caught.  If anything it could be the reason he does get caught because it gives people something to rally around.

Add that to the equation and see if things start making sense in your little woolen brain.

At first I was very offended at this, then I understood what you were saying

[P4man]

#2 - This is *exactly* my point of things that just don't 'add up'.  If I were pirate AND I were running a ponzi then I would not want PPTs for exactly the reason you stated.  It just doesn't make sense.

Oh yes you do. You give them crumbs, in return they give you credibility and a large inflow of btc's. If it werent for the Pirate Ponzi Team cheerleaders and the trust they enjoyed in the community, Im pretty sure the scheme would have collapsed ages ago. But if a dozen well known and generally respected "hero members"/VIPS etc pretend to know things you dont know, appear willing to swear on their mothers grave Pirate is the real deal, well, it makes even the most level headed guy wonder.

[ErebusBat]

#2 - This is *exactly* my point of things that just don't 'add up'.  If I were pirate AND I were running a ponzi then I would not want PPTs for exactly the reason you stated.  It just doesn't make sense.

Oh yes you do. You give them crumbs, in return they give you credibility and a large inflow of btc's. If it werent for the Pirate Ponzi Team cheerleaders and the trust they enjoyed in the community, Im pretty sure the scheme would have collapsed ages ago. But if a dozen well known and generally respected "hero members"/VIPS etc pretend to know things you dont know, appear willing to swear on their mothers grave Pirate is the real deal, well, it makes even the most level headed guy wonder.

This is a good point... that is a major reason I invested.  PH, BurtW, etc.... all long time members gave me ease.

[matthewh3]

#2 - This is *exactly* my point of things that just don't 'add up'.  If I were pirate AND I were running a ponzi then I would not want PPTs for exactly the reason you stated.  It just doesn't make sense.

Oh yes you do. You give them crumbs, in return they give you credibility and a large inflow of btc's. If it werent for the Pirate Ponzi Team cheerleaders and the trust they enjoyed in the community, Im pretty sure the scheme would have collapsed ages ago. But if a dozen well known and generally respected "hero members"/VIPS etc pretend to know things you dont know, appear willing to swear on their mothers grave Pirate is the real deal, well, it makes even the most level headed guy wonder.

This is a good point... that is a major reason I invested.  PH, BurtW, etc.... all long time members gave me ease.

I think these co-conspirators knew they could all loose there principle but they knew they were getting in early enough to make a profit.  I too wouldnt have even thought of investing if it wasn't all the support Pirate got from 'VIP Hero' members of this forum.  Who all said they new who he was personally and new it was a legit investment. 

[556j]

This is a good point... that is a major reason I invested.  PH, BurtW, etc.... all long time members gave me ease.

IE I'm a dumbass and like to blame others after the fact. If you didn't see through 7%/week, well there's no other explanation.

[ErebusBat]

This is a good point... that is a major reason I invested.  PH, BurtW, etc.... all long time members gave me ease.

IE I'm a dumbass and like to blame others after the fact. If you didn't see through 7%/week, well there's no other explanation.

Who is blaming others?  I have said multiple times before that if pirate runs it is my own fault.  I was saying that P4 had a very good point, where do you fit in?

[P4man]

This is a good point... that is a major reason I invested.  PH, BurtW, etc.... all long time members gave me ease.

Which is why I think its so important there is at least some accountability for their fierce support for pirate. Its not revenge or to start a witch hunt or whatever, its to make sure everyone knows there are consequences to giving undue credibility. Labelling them as scammer would likely be considered too harsh by many, but if I where Theymos I would give them all a signature that says "Im either incredibly gullible or a crook. Dont ever take investment advice from me" or something along those lines.

[matthewh3]

This is a good point... that is a major reason I invested.  PH, BurtW, etc.... all long time members gave me ease.

Which is why I think its so important there is at least some accountability for their fierce support for pirate. Its not revenge or to start a witch hunt or whatever, its to make sure everyone knows there are consequences to giving undue credibility. Labelling them as scammer would likely be considered too harsh by many, but if I where Theymos I would give them all a signature that says "Im either incredibly gullible or a crook. Dont ever take investment advice from me" or something along those lines.

I think there just scammers the people who gave Pirates idea kudos they all profited from it.  So haven't lost anything but made on a scam.  I hope I'm wrong and MNW wins his bet but it all just seems a little too late in the day.  Pirate probably does have a lot of USD/BTC but now he's just thinking "I might as well just keep it" rather than use it to partially pay of his debts and still be in debt.  Trust me a scammer would rather be in debt and have money then be in debt and have no money.