It's Happening .... The secrets of 21 inc revealed, and its what we hoped for.

[inBitweTrust]

Well, it seems that their plan is indeed to insert ASIC mining chips into appliances and steal use free electricity from the consumers:

I still don't understand why they would use such a complicated method to take money from gullible bitcoiners, instead of the simplest method that I devised about a year ago:

Jumping the gun a bit?

It isn't stealing if there is no dishonesty or false claims being made. There are many of us on this forum who have been critical of both bitcoin, bitcoin mining businesses and alt businesses when we suspect even slightly misleading marketing.

I look forward to discussing both the positives and negatives of their yet to be released products.  Any dishonesty will be viciously attacked... but what you are doing now is either trolling or potentially falsely misrepresenting them without enough data to make those claims.

Interesting list of Jobs they are looking for giving credence to these journalists' articles:

https://21.co/#jobs

[JorgeStolfi]

It isn't stealing if there is no dishonesty or false claims being made.

Hey, the method I proposed does not use dishonesty or false claims either!  

[JorgeStolfi]

Interesting list of Jobs they are looking for giving credence to these journalists' articles:

https://21.co/#jobs

Interesting indeed, but I don't see anything that suggests appliances.  It may have something to do with mobile access (Android and iOS), though. 

Cound it be something related to payments instead of mining -- like NFC receivers for points-of-sale and/or smartphones? Or a hardware wallet that interact with your smartphone?

[inBitweTrust]

It isn't stealing if there is no dishonesty or false claims being made.

Hey, the method I proposed does not use dishonesty or false claims either!  

I liked the cartoon... but cannot follow through with sending the bitcoins to you. Replace your Signature with a BTC donation address so I can follow your suggestion proposed in your comic.  

p.s.. I appreciate the honesty of your sig.

Interesting list of Jobs they are looking for giving credence to these journalists' articles:

https://21.co/#jobs

Interesting indeed, but I don't see anything that suggests appliances.  It may have something to do with mobile access (Android and iOS), though.  

Cound it be something related to payments instead of mining -- like NFC receivers for points-of-sale and/or smartphones? Or a hardware wallet that interact with your smartphone?

No ... looks like those mobile apps are to control the ASIC appliances as they will be IoT enabled smart appliances.

https://jobs.lever.co/21/98cf0d53-ff78-42c0-a3af-882309d9f198

21 is looking for an exceptional hardware engineer with demonstrable experience in designing ASICs that have been shipped at scale and expert knowledge of industry-standard design tools. You'll work with both internal technical teams and external customers on integrating our technology into novel Bitcoin-related products.

If it was another hardware Wallet (Already plenty of those and unlikely to attract so much VC capital so quickly) than the job specification wouldn't indicate integrating Internal ASIC technology in with multiple products and working with external partners.

[bitcoin_bagholder]

Is there any proof that any of this is true? I can't find a shred of it.

Same here, been on a hunt for a confirmation or denial from 21 Inc or for these "knowledgeable sources" to be named. Nada.

I sure am skeptical with toaster in the title. A fuckin' toaster? Mine averages about a minute of future bitcoin mining per day.

[inBitweTrust]

http://www.ibtimes.com/21-inc-secret-bitcoin-startup-raises-116m-latest-funding-round-1842374
http://www.coindesk.com/21-record-116-million-funding-all-star-investors/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334759.0

Secretive startup 21E6, another mining-machine seller, is believed to be backed by some of the wealthiest people in Silicon Valley; its co-founder is Balaji Srinivasan, a former Stanford University professor and data-mining expert.

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/21e6

$116M / Venture
Mar 10, 2015
Investors:
Peter Thiel
Qualcomm Ventures
Data Collective
Khosla Ventures
Yuan Capital
RRE Ventures
Andreessen Horowitz

$5.1M / Series A
Nov 17, 2013
Investors:
Winklevoss Capital

That Qualcomm investment is what sticks out.

[jimmothy]

21 is looking for an exceptional hardware engineer with demonstrable experience in designing ASICs that have been shipped at scale and expert knowledge of industry-standard design tools. You'll work with both internal technical teams and external customers on integrating our technology into novel Bitcoin-related products.

If it was another hardware Wallet (Already plenty of those and unlikely to attract so much VC capital so quickly) than the job specification wouldn't indicate integrating Internal ASIC technology in with multiple products and working with external partners.

It's safe to assume that they are working on a mining chip because of this: "Working with cutting-edge process technologies (sub-32 nm)"

There's no reason to use the cutting edge process tech for anything that is not used all the time.

As for the statement you quoted, I don't think that's evidence that they are integrating their ASIC's in appliances. I think it's more likely that the "bitcoin-related products" are just miners and the "external customers" are chip integrators. (building their own farms using 21 inc chips)

[ed_teech]

http://www.ibtimes.com/21-inc-secret-bitcoin-startup-raises-116m-latest-funding-round-1842374
http://www.coindesk.com/21-record-116-million-funding-all-star-investors/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334759.0

Secretive startup 21E6, another mining-machine seller, is believed to be backed by some of the wealthiest people in Silicon Valley; its co-founder is Balaji Srinivasan, a former Stanford University professor and data-mining expert.

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/21e6

$116M / Venture
Mar 10, 2015
Investors:
Peter Thiel
Qualcomm Ventures
Data Collective
Khosla Ventures
Yuan Capital
RRE Ventures
Andreessen Horowitz

$5.1M / Series A
Nov 17, 2013
Investors:
Winklevoss Capital

That Qualcomm investment is what sticks out.

This is quite interesting. Has Qualcomm ever showed any interest in building miners or even Bitcoin ? Is it their first investment ? I always thought ASIC manufacturing is just for mid-size hardware factories.

[Cryddit]

Hm.  There is a place to go with this now that I think about it, but it's a little weird.

With current process technology, if you are willing to design for half the speed, you can do it for a quarter of the power.  And if you're willing to go a quarter of the speed, you can do it for one-sixteenth of the power, and so on.

It sounds like if 21 wants to integrate small-scale mining into a host of consumer products, they're going to need tiny mining rigs that run on just a watt or two - but those rigs, although much slower, could be drastically more *efficient* in hashes produced per power consumed than what's filling up server farms today.

If you take a 200w mining chip and then design for slower speed - half speed is 50w, quarter speed is 12.5w, 1/8 speed is 3.25 watts.  The payoff would be very slow, but positive relative to the hashes/power tradeoff that miners are doing now.  A fair number of the things we have in our homes consume 3.25 watts just in standby currents to keep a little LED on and a little timer running and their program memory refreshed, etc... 

Of course, equilibrium will be reached; whether the market is saturated by 21 inc's devices or whether miners replace their current infrastructure with similarly slow/cool chips, ROI on the more efficient devices will approach zero just as surely as it already has for USB sticks.

[RoadStress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be Bingo!

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be Bingo!

Now that looks like a lead. Interesting.

[SebastianJu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be Bingo!

Now that looks like a lead. Interesting.

Does they speak about bitcoin too or only about a technique already widely used by big ISPs? I mean that normal persons allow other persons of the same ISP using their WLAN. So that the customers can have net outside often enough too.

Im not a native english speaker so i might have missed something.

[LiteCoinGuy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be Bingo!

Now that looks like a lead. Interesting.

Does they speak about bitcoin too or only about a technique already widely used by big ISPs? I mean that normal persons allow other persons of the same ISP using their WLAN. So that the customers can have net outside often enough too.

Im not a native english speaker so i might have missed something.

they are not talking about bitcoin in this video. but it makes sense to see that video in that context.

[SebastianJu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be Bingo!

Now that looks like a lead. Interesting.

Does they speak about bitcoin too or only about a technique already widely used by big ISPs? I mean that normal persons allow other persons of the same ISP using their WLAN. So that the customers can have net outside often enough too.

Im not a native english speaker so i might have missed something.

they are not talking about bitcoin in this video. but it makes sense to see that video in that context.
[/quote

How? I dont get it yet. Is there a business model that could be worth it for bitcoin? If you mean those stations being miners then i think that specialized miners still will have an advantage in price. So i dont see why this might be related.

[inBitweTrust]

How? I dont get it yet. Is there a business model that could be worth it for bitcoin? If you mean those stations being miners then i think that specialized miners still will have an advantage in price. So i dont see why this might be related.

We know that Qualcomm invested in 21 Inc. We also know that they are interested in and are developing millions of micro-stations to boost their network coverage and bandwidth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be

The question is who is going to buy their micro stations or pay the electricity and why would they? It would be ridiculous for them to require one for their devices.

Thus one can speculate that they may be interested in having 21 deploy millions of ASIC appliances for free where 2 extra chips are embedded one for mining BTC thus affording 21 to give away the appliances and the other own being a microstation for qualcomm where qualcomm subsidizes the price in exchange for cheaper bandwidth.

[jimmothy]

How? I dont get it yet. Is there a business model that could be worth it for bitcoin? If you mean those stations being miners then i think that specialized miners still will have an advantage in price. So i dont see why this might be related.

We know that Qualcomm invested in 21 Inc. We also know that they are interested in and are developing millions of micro-stations to boost their network coverage and bandwidth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be

The question is who is going to buy their micro stations or pay the electricity and why would they? It would be ridiculous for them to require one for their devices.

Thus one can speculate that they may be interested in having 21 deploy millions of ASIC appliances for free where 2 extra chips are embedded one for mining BTC thus affording 21 to give away the appliances and the other own being a microstation for qualcomm where qualcomm subsidizes the price in exchange for cheaper bandwidth.

IMO a better solution would be letting people buy those devices and offering cell service to anyone who pays btc.

[Cryddit]

What really stuns me about these devices is the security implications. 

You realize we're talking about a box controlled by someone else, with its own network access and sensors and probably also attached to your own home network, sitting inside your home? 

Hello? 

Does this sound like a Bad Idea to anyone else?

These chips are an absolute plum of a target for anybody who wants to do REALLY invasive snooping. And I would guarantee that those capabilities will be baked in; it is simply too profitable for these guys to not do. 

[futureofbitcoin]

What really stuns me about these devices is the security implications. 

You realize we're talking about a box controlled by someone else, with its own network access and sensors and probably also attached to your own home network, sitting inside your home? 

Hello? 

Does this sound like a Bad Idea to anyone else?

These chips are an absolute plum of a target for anybody who wants to do REALLY invasive snooping. And I would guarantee that those capabilities will be baked in; it is simply too profitable for these guys to not do. 

If you're worried, don't use the product. It's really that simple. For those who think the benefit outweighs the potential cons, they'll use it. That's all.

[TheRealSteve]

An article that's not based on the Alphaville piece, painting a rather different picture: Inside 21's Plans to Bring Bitcoin to the Masses

[gentlemand]

An article that's not based on the Alphaville piece, painting a rather different picture: Inside 21's Plans to Bring Bitcoin to the Masses

That's a bit more like it.

This sentence in particular stood out for me - "By the time its chips were to be embedded into Internet of Things (IoT) devices, 21 projected its cost to produce 1 BTC could be as low as $7.45."

I wonder what their projections are as the block reward dwindles towards a trickle in the years to come.