Gold Losing It's Shine?

[bornil267645]

According to Mark O'Byrne of GoldCore, gold is slowly losing it's shine. And things like bitcoin and cryptocurrency are stealing the spotlight.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think markets are adequately pricing in the risks that are present around the world today, particularly in Europe and the gold price itself?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

No, I don’t think so. I think in light of the “Grexit”, which you just mentioned, and also the “Brexit” and the overall debt positions globally — we would have a concern that there is a global financial bubble with stock markets at all time record highs, bond markets at all time record highs.

Meanwhile, gold prices have traded sideways, as you said, for a long period of time. We have had a serious correction and we believe there is consolidation. It looks undervalued. At the same time it could go lower before it goes higher. I think technically there is a weakness there and I think there is support at $1140 so short-term there is weakness, quite possibly, but medium to long term the fundamentals look very sound.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think that’s because we have had a breakaway from the idea that gold remains a great hedge towards any risk that’s out there — whether that’s inflation, deflation or just big geopolitical crises or is it just because markets don’t understand that those risks are present and they are ignoring them?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

I think the latter…for the moment.

I think it’s very like the 2003 to 2006-2007 period. The imbalances were building up in the system – meanwhile stock markets kept gallivanting higher and gold was a very under-owned asset and there wasn’t an appreciation of gold as a safe haven asset.

I think you are right.. I think that perception of gold … it has fallen out of favour. Sentiment towards gold is as bad as we have seen it since the 2003/2004 period.

Bitcoin is the more sexy thing. People want to talk about bitcoin and anything with “bit” in the name seems to be doing very well.

Whereas gold is very much less sexy. It’s less on the radar because it has performed quite badly in the short term. But, I suppose past performance is no guarantee of future returns and you have to look at the long-term store of value characteristics of gold as a proven hedging instrument and safe haven asset… over the long term. Not in the short term, obviously.

Carolin Roth of CNBC:

Mark, there simply is no inflationary pressure… I don’t see why gold should be moving higher at all. We are in a disinflationary or low inflation world. I don’t see why gold should be moving past the $1200 level that we’ve been bumping around over the last couple of months. And then we’ve got a dollar that’s moving higher. It’s a bit of a rough patch for the dollar right now but it’s still moving higher. I don’t see why anything we are seeing in gold is more than a dead cat bounce, essentially…?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

You’re right — there [are] no inflationary pressures … right now.

The question is “is that inflation building up?” And I think it probably is.

At the same time gold is not just a hedge against inflation — it’s actually not a really a hedge against inflation per se, it’s more of a hedge against serious inflation and stagflation. It’s also a hedge against deflation.

So when you have a Lehman Brothers moment or a potential “Grexit” there is that significant counterparty risk. And gold — because it has no counterparty risk if you own the actually physical asset — it is actually a hedge against deflation as well.

There is a huge body of academic research that shows that.

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[newcripto]

Gold will never lose it's shine as this is oldest asset which is trusted by everyone throughout history.If you refer at recent collapse of price then I will say that was hype and was artificial raise in price.Gold will always decide the value of everything.This time when Gold's price will rise that when will be genuine and long term rise.

[RodeoX]

I have not done well with gold in the past year. I still like it and think it is a great hedge against a catastrophic stock market decline, but I'm down like $40 an Oz. 

[Benjig]

Gold might be a glittering temptation for investors looking to fatten their investment returns with a relatively safe commodity. But it's far from foolproof. Indeed, gold shouldn't be considered an investment at all. Rather, the precious metal acts as a hedge, or a way to try to protect wealth against the risk of loss in such asset classes as real estate, equities and bonds. And I believe Bitcoin do the same as gold in the world of Cryptocurrencies.

[Pab]

Whan dollar is loosing in price ,gold is going up

But last time gold prices were climbing together with hossa on stock,a lot of tha fiat money went in gold,but in virtual gold.If gold will goes under 1200$ it can easly hit 800$,

Some financial institution in some moment will urgently need cash,so sell everything,than buy back low price

[Amph]

I think buying gold under 1200$ is a good idea as it keeps going back up to at least 1200 and selling it there currently, eventually it will rise higher but right now it seems thats where it is becoming stagnant.

notice how bitcoin reached that value too, maybe there is a cospiracy behind that price number..i think that gold is done its extraction isn't like bitcoin and don't fall every 4 years, is scarcity is fixed, so it should not rise much more than its current price

better to invest in something else for higher return

[aso118]

People are attracted to gold because it acts as a hedge against inflation.
Right now, inflation doesn't seem to be a worry.

[expert4knowledge]

I think Gold never lose its shining because many of rich people, power bands and governments have invested more than billions of $ on it but it may be a little cheaper, but as long as people who have power has not changed the Gold price does not change.

[mrhelpful]

Gold is less sexy yeah, with people seeing other financial intruments making them money, and bitcoin has been getting more attention.

But, I rather prefer less sexy - the stable reoccurring financial %, then a unknown variable like bitcoin. Dont get me wrong, but in a financial perspective of things, I`m more on a small percent then a huge one. 

[OROBTC]

...

Both gold and BTC have been pretty range-bound lately...  Hmm.

GOLD has been a Store of Value for 5000 - 6000 years (depending on whose figures you accept).  For me, it is best thought of as insurance against government malfeasance, as well as a possible lottery ticket (to a MUCH higher price, physical gold in your own possession only).  Oh, and it's shiny!

BTC is volatile as well, but it is also "its own asset class", and so fits very well with my ideas about diversification.  BTC is also a lottery ticket, it may go to a much higher price as well.  Oh, and it's cool and digital...

We'll see what happens!  "We watch together, no?"

[deisik]

According to Mark O'Byrne of GoldCore, gold is slowly losing it's shine. And things like bitcoin and cryptocurrency are stealing the spotlight.

<shit skipped>

99% of all financial news that you hear about prices going to fall (rise) is just noise. That wouldn't be a problem if this noise wasn't contagious and toxic. Contagious and toxic here means that it still affects you and your financial decisions to a degree even if you know that it is no more than that...

Market never lies

[JusticeForYou]

It's not losing it's weight...

We have around $20 TRILLION dollars in debt, and another $60-$80 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities... There's not enough trees to print that much money. So the government definitely put the FIAT in fiat currency... The FED was suppose to protect us from this. It didn't.

I'm not say fiat currency can't work, it just needs to be managed with real controls that are not politicized. People will one day realize that fiat currency is an abstract item in a hyper-reality that is worthless. I'm not saying to go throw all your money into Gold but it better be part of your diversification portfolio, along with Silver, Palladium, etc... Canned Food too !!!

[coolcoinz]

Gold witnessed the rise and fall of empires, there's nothing to be afraid of Diamonds will surely lose value before gold and when it happens fiat will already be long forgotten.

[techgeek]

if anything bitcoin, I feel like its catching up real quick at its own speed.

Its pretty crazy how we saw it match gold at one point, and we all know how old gold is..

As for the fiat, we have way too much since its more of a socialist view for banks to get bailed out every single fuken time. True capitalism works, because you let it fall theres no such thing as bail outs. Socialists for the rich, true capitalism for the poor. wtf.. 

[Q7]

It is possible that gold is losing its shine considering the fact that now we have cryptocurrency being slightly better. However, I don't see it becoming oblivion or being forgotten anytime soon. The ideal scenario would be bitcoin moving alongside gold as an alternative investment option and certainly no matter what, those two are still far better than holding onto fiat.

[spazzdla]

When the BRICs flip the switch.. the USD will instantly lose 90% of it's value.. You heard it here first!

[Amph]

It is possible that gold is losing its shine considering the fact that now we have cryptocurrency being slightly better. However, I don't see it becoming oblivion or being forgotten anytime soon. The ideal scenario would be bitcoin moving alongside gold as an alternative investment option and certainly no matter what, those two are still far better than holding onto fiat.

The people who are stacking tons of gold (around 5% of their wealth) have no cares to what Bitcoin is at, they just want a hedge in case an economic crisis.

those same people usually care only about their portfolio/income, so if they see bitcoin as a better alternative they will jump on board regardless, but it's not exactly the case for bitcoin with the current down-trend

[expert4knowledge]

Maybe with passing time we can expect a little fall in prices of gold.

[BobK71]

At least two serious books have come out, detailing evidence that major central banks have been suppressing gold "market" prices by trading derivatives.

What this means is that the authorities' own reading of world sentiment (which is surely better than that of mortals like me) is that gold price suppression *is* necessary to support the value of paper currency and its associated assets.

This condition was the real essence of the gold standard. Gold standards were not designed, as declared, to safeguard the value of paper. They were really intended to hold down the price of gold and prop up that of paper -- a form of financial repression that tried to push savers to get into paper, spend, and lend.

So, as surprising as it seems to say this in 2015, we are on a (flexible version of) gold standard.

The main reason to hold gold right now (but only physical gold) is that if the authorities continue to have problems getting the economy back to growth and inflation after the financial crisis, as evidenced by the Fed being unable to raise rates 7 years after the crisis, they might be forced to, effectively, devalue currencies against gold. Devaluation fundamentally makes the most sense in this kind of situations. The problem (for the authorities) is that it would be bad for market psychology with respect to paper currency.

[ajareselde]

I don't know much about gold mining, but like any industry, im certain that gold mining also advanced quite a bit in terms of lowering costs of mining itself.Tech gets better, theres more gold mined, overall costs decline. Thats regarding new gold flow coming into market, but regarding the gold already held by people and institutions, i guess it can be manipulated to some point, just like anything else (bitcoin price included.)

cheers

[boopy265420]

Gold is very precious and most trusted asset through out the history of mankind.This will always remain an important player to measure the value of the currencies even in future when only digital currencies will rule the financial system.Gold's shine can never be dimmed not even little.Recent decline in price of Gold was after effect of price hype which was created by elite now price is very fair in my opinion.

[bryant.coleman]

I am having a feeling that too much gold is being mined out right now. Two decades ago, the total gold production (from mines, as well as from placer deposits) stood at less than 1,000 tonnes. But right now, the production is about to touch 3,000 tonne per year, with countries such as China and Russia significantly increasing their output.

[chmod755]

1,000 tonnes. But right now, the production is about to touch 3,000 tonne per year

Where did you get those numbers?

[deisik]

I am having a feeling that too much gold is being mined out right now. Two decades ago, the total gold production (from mines, as well as from placer deposits) stood at less than 1,000 tonnes. But right now, the production is about to touch 3,000 tonne per year, with countries such as China and Russia significantly increasing their output.

Two decades ago most trucks could carry only about 70 tonnes of ore compared against around 250 tonnes as of now (or even more than that). So you guess the reason for the increased gold production...

[OROBTC]

...

3000 tonnes of worldwide gold production for 2015 is about right.  But, the production does not matter that much!  There are about 180,000 tonnes in stock around the world.  The stock:flow ratio is about 60:1!  The flow is what matters!

There are very few traded materials with a stock to flow of more than about two or three (that is, inventories of two - three years vs. annual production).

This is one of many reasons why gold is unique, and has been the Store of Value of choice for over 5000 years!

[fonenumba]

The most important factor affecting the price of gold is real interest rate.

If real interest rate is more than +2% , then easy money just leaves gold and goes safe harbor "interest". If real interest rate is low than 2% then easy money stays in gold. Whenever FED makes an explanation about the rate of interest it directly affects the price of it.

So , I dont believe gold will increase sooner. Since there is no new quantitative easing and there is tendency of interest rate increase , there is high possibility of decline in prices.

On the other hand, bitcoin has different price dynamics according to gold. To replace the position of gold as a safe harbor , bitcoin (services)  should be more user friendly, easy and massly adopted.

[bryant.coleman]

1,000 tonnes. But right now, the production is about to touch 3,000 tonne per year

Where did you get those numbers?

The total mine output in 1985 was 1,190 metric tonnes of pure gold (which represents an increase of 22% from 940 tonnes in 1975). The source is Mining Latin America / Minería Latinoamericana by KB Smale Adams.

The mine output stood at 2,860 metric tonnes in 2014, according to the U.S. Geological Survey. South Africa produced 60% of all the gold in 1985, and 5% in 2014.

[TECSHARE]

I consider silver to be a better store of value than gold if you are going to buy a precious metal. The reason I say this, in spite of silver's additional volatility, is that there are MASSIVE secret stores of gold all over the earth, meaning they can more easily drop the price by flooding the market.

Gold is not consumed very often in industry compared to silver, so more and more of it is in supply over time. Silver on the other hand is literally even more rare than gold (above ground and available for consumption), and it is an irreplaceable component in many modern electronics, which ultimately end up in land fills, removing it from the supply. Due to the constant inductive force of the industrial uses of silver, it is more difficult and less likely for large hidden stockpiles to be able to flood the market.

[thy]

The most important factor affecting the price of gold is real interest rate.

If real interest rate is more than +2% , then easy money just leaves gold and goes safe harbor "interest". If real interest rate is low than 2% then easy money stays in gold. Whenever FED makes an explanation about the rate of interest it directly affects the price of it.

So , I dont believe gold will increase sooner. Since there is no new quantitative easing and there is tendency of interest rate increase , there is high possibility of decline in prices.

On the other hand, bitcoin has different price dynamics according to gold. To replace the position of gold as a safe harbor , bitcoin (services)  should be more user friendly, easy and massly adopted.

Why would investors prefer investment in a interest bearing paper currency at just 2% interest that also could potentially default depending on what countrys currency it is is, when gold has a way higher avg historical gain verses the fiat currencys.
If we look more recent in history then during 2000-2015 for example gold has increased 118.6% verses the CHF, 148.9% vs AUD, 165.9% vs EUR, 168.0% vs USD and 180.6% vs GBP.

If someone had got a 2% yearly fiat interest they would in 14.5 years just have got 33.2% interest so 2% can hardly be the correct equilibrium point to move values between gold<->fiat even if somone would counted on a 0% default rate for a country.

[Q7]

It is possible that gold is losing its shine considering the fact that now we have cryptocurrency being slightly better. However, I don't see it becoming oblivion or being forgotten anytime soon. The ideal scenario would be bitcoin moving alongside gold as an alternative investment option and certainly no matter what, those two are still far better than holding onto fiat.

The people who are stacking tons of gold (around 5% of their wealth) have no cares to what Bitcoin is at, they just want a hedge in case an economic crisis.

those same people usually care only about their portfolio/income, so if they see bitcoin as a better altrnative they will jump on board regardless, but it's not exactly the case for bitcoin with the current down-trend

This is true but we have no real data on if an economic crash would keep bitcoin up on high, we all theorize it would since it is essentially digital gold but we have no proof of that. I personally think it will but it just hasn't been tested yet.

It will not happen until people see it as a reliable investment that will protect their capital in the long term. Even though fiat is collaping, people will still have doubts putting their money into something that will have high possibility ended up the same, unless they see bitcoin giving a steady return. Until that happens, there is no correlation whatsoever.

[maku]

It will not happen until people see it as a reliable investment that will protect their capital in the long term. Even though fiat is collaping, people will still have doubts putting their money into something that will have high possibility ended up the same, unless they see bitcoin giving a steady return. Until that happens, there is no correlation whatsoever.

Agreed. Most of people are afraid of new thing and bitcoin is still very young and new. Many people still don't recognize btc. so for them to invest in bitcoin is impossible. Also the fact that some governments are banning (or planing to ban) btc. in the eyes of many is another argument against crypto currencies.

[deisik]

The most important factor affecting the price of gold is real interest rate.

If real interest rate is more than +2% , then easy money just leaves gold and goes safe harbor "interest". If real interest rate is low than 2% then easy money stays in gold. Whenever FED makes an explanation about the rate of interest it directly affects the price of it.

So , I dont believe gold will increase sooner. Since there is no new quantitative easing and there is tendency of interest rate increase , there is high possibility of decline in prices.

There is nothing new in this. They (all sorts of market analysts out there) repeat that thing again and again. But if you lived long enough (and managed to survive), you would know that things rarely come the way that everyone talks about. Just recent example, when the May jobs report was about to come out, the consensus was that the price of gold should fall if jobs increased above 200k. You guess, total NFP employment increased by 223,000 in April and gold spiked to +1230$ an ounce despite that...

In fact, you may not want to talk about possibility, but rather expectation

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

Gold might be a glittering temptation for investors looking to fatten their investment returns with a relatively safe commodity. But it's far from foolproof. Indeed, gold shouldn't be considered an investment at all. Rather, the precious metal acts as a hedge, or a way to try to protect wealth against the risk of loss in such asset classes as real estate, equities and bonds. And I believe Bitcoin do the same as gold in the world of Cryptocurrencies.

Bitcoin still has a way to go to be considered "doing the same as gold but in Crypto".
Bitcoin is objectively superior in every aspect, except for the fact it's still too new for the old money to trust it, they still see it as something weird and all that money will stay in Gold, I think until a generation or two later where their inheriting sons will move tons of money into Bitcoin (think the Rothchilds and all those guys, just a couple of them securing a % of their wealth on BTC would drive the price up a lot).

[manselr]

I consider silver to be a better store of value than gold if you are going to buy a precious metal. The reason I say this, in spite of silver's additional volatility, is that there are MASSIVE secret stores of gold all over the earth, meaning they can more easily drop the price by flooding the market.

Gold is not consumed very often in industry compared to silver, so more and more of it is in supply over time. Silver on the other hand is literally even more rare than gold (above ground and available for consumption), and it is an irreplaceable component in many modern electronics, which ultimately end up in land fills, removing it from the supply. Due to the constant inductive force of the industrial uses of silver, it is more difficult and less likely for large hidden stockpiles to be able to flood the market.

The big problem with silver - and, indeed, every other commodity - is that the stock:flow ratio is wrong for use as money. It can still be a store of value, or even a good speculative investment, but because there is (and has been) so much industrial demand for silver the ratio of existing:production is all wrong.

[deisik]

Gold is not consumed very often in industry compared to silver, so more and more of it is in supply over time. Silver on the other hand is literally even more rare than gold (above ground and available for consumption), and it is an irreplaceable component in many modern electronics, which ultimately end up in land fills, removing it from the supply. Due to the constant inductive force of the industrial uses of silver, it is more difficult and less likely for large hidden stockpiles to be able to flood the market.

In this aspect palladium also looks quite promising. Personally, I would favor it before silver since, unlike the latter, it doesn't have that much pecuniary constituent in its value (actually none). That means its price would be more reactive to the expansion in the industrial usage of this metal, which could be exponential, e.g. due to its uniqueness in hydrogen absorption capacity and as a catalyst...

[thejaytiesto]

Gold still got the massive network effect, everyone in the world has the mental image of gold = wealth and luxury. Im not worried at all about it.
What gold lacks and Bitcoin has tho, is the excitement of novelty and revolution. Gold feels old and established and pretty boring, Bitcoin is an exciting rollercoaster into the future.

[OROBTC]

...

deisik notes that palladium might be a great speculation/investment because of its special properties.  I agree.  It can absorb and store huge amounts of hydrogen gas.  Pd is impermeable to ALL gases except hydrogen, so there could be very high demand for Pd if/when hydrogen fuel cell (eg, for cars) technology gets rolling.

Physical palladium coins are available, Canada and Russia make them for small speculators.  APMEX and provident metals have them.  Also you might check bitcointalk's Veldt Gold, they might have palladium in stock as well:

https://veldtgold.com/product-category/palladium/

(I have bought twice from Veldt, both times delivered as promised)

[manselr]

Most people still think gold as safe haven, for example take Greece. Anyone holding CDS on Greek debt will be looking for their sacks of gold. The bond guys surely can't claim this is anything but a default event, can they?

[gripflierGO]

Gold will never lose it's shine as this is oldest asset which is trusted by everyone throughout history.If you refer at recent collapse of price then I will say that was hype and was artificial raise in price.Gold will always decide the value of everything.This time when Gold's price will rise that when will be genuine and long term rise.

Gold is definitely the best product for investment. History says it all. And the reason behind it is that people trust gold more  as it is a traditional product and gives a good return on investment so at present the prices have gone down but it will raise in the future coming period.

[neurotypical]

Gold will never lose it's shine as this is oldest asset which is trusted by everyone throughout history.If you refer at recent collapse of price then I will say that was hype and was artificial raise in price.Gold will always decide the value of everything.This time when Gold's price will rise that when will be genuine and long term rise.

Gold is definitely the best product for investment. History says it all. And the reason behind it is that people trust gold more  as it is a traditional product and gives a good return on investment so at present the prices have gone down but it will raise in the future coming period.

Sure, gold is solid, but has low return of investment. You'll never get rich putting 10K in gold. You may be come a millonaire if you put 10K in BTC. Gold is too stablished to give the insane returns BTC and other crypto projects like Maid can give you in the future.

[umaOuma]

Gold will never lose it's shine as this is oldest asset which is trusted by everyone throughout history.If you refer at recent collapse of price then I will say that was hype and was artificial raise in price.Gold will always decide the value of everything.This time when Gold's price will rise that when will be genuine and long term rise.

Gold is definitely the best product for investment. History says it all. And the reason behind it is that people trust gold more  as it is a traditional product and gives a good return on investment so at present the prices have gone down but it will raise in the future coming period.

Sure, gold is solid, but has low return of investment. You'll never get rich putting 10K in gold. You may be come a millonaire if you put 10K in BTC. Gold is too stablished to give the insane returns BTC and other crypto projects like Maid can give you in the future.

You are absolutely right but the problem bitcoin is facing is that people don't trust it..people have more faith in gold as it is traditional so people dont want to take risk and invest in bitcoin and thats the reason they invest in gold as they know even if they get less returns but their investment is safe.

[ThEmporium]

Gold will never lose it's shine as this is oldest asset which is trusted by everyone throughout history.If you refer at recent collapse of price then I will say that was hype and was artificial raise in price.Gold will always decide the value of everything.This time when Gold's price will rise that when will be genuine and long term rise.

Although I agree with your comment, It is just a mindset of us that we got deep craze on this yellow metal, this mindset has been developed by our ancestors. If their is no buyer for this yellow metal, then there will no demand for this, however there are other metal ore such as Diamond, pearls, which has real mark value against the Gold. I believe that platinum is just a hype and never withstand in front of this yellow metal

[yayayo]

I don't think gold is about to lose its shine anytime soon. We're currently in the greatest bond bubble in history that is about to burst soon. Then gold will be en vogue again.

As others have pointed out, gold has special properties (weight, color) that fascinate people. While I would not claim, that gold will *always* be valuable, it's still one of the most reliable assets because of its unique aesthetic appeal to human soul.

ya.ya.yo!

[knowhow]

well gold can stay fixed between some worth on the next years,on the last 50 years gold raised a lot as the interest to have it raised at the same point,before only rich people had acess to it the people werent able to even think on have it,anyway the gold is the only thing that can face the problems that may come on the future near,but lets say we will never know how much it can grow in price as if it will go lower ,is a good investment but the better one is to live without think only in future all must think and act thinking on the future the sons,the family  ,but im pretty sure gold will keep attract more and more investors..the same way i believe it can keep gain more worth on the next years

[OROBTC]

...

Gold has a number of characteristics that would be of interest to many savers / investors.

1)  Perhaps No. 1 in importance would be that gold is insurance against .gov becoming tyrannical or incompetent.

2)  Gold is recognized and wanted all over the world.  "There is always someone around who will buy your gold."

3)  Gold is likely to go way up in price in case Europe has big problems (think Grexit, etc.).  After Europe, problems would come to America.

4)  Gold has been valued as the best Store of Value for 5000 - 6000 years, it is relatively easy to detect "fake gold" as well.

5)  Gold moves somewhat independently of other investments, thus good diversificatin.

6)  Gold is easy to hide.......

[jayce]

Sure, gold is solid, but has low return of investment. You'll never get rich putting 10K in gold. You may be come a millonaire if you put 10K in BTC. Gold is too stablished to give the insane returns BTC and other crypto projects like Maid can give you in the future.

What will you do if in the future price of BTC drop a lot? It's just my speculation, but if that really happen, you lost all your investment. Although gold is too stable, but its more safe.

Its better to earn small profit than the high profit with higher risk.

6)  Gold is easy to hide.......

Where did you hide that? LOL
I think it's easier to hide BTC 

[deisik]

6)  Gold is easy to hide.......

Where did you hide that? LOL
I think it's easier to hide BTC 

All your BTCs exist in the blockchain (and only as long as the blockchain itself exists and is consistent). Not something that you can hide quite easily. You can use mixers, exchanges, dice sites to cover your steps (this has been discussed a zillion times), but they are still there and still traceable...

[bryant.coleman]

Everyone who supports the argument that Gold is losing its value, just limits their observation to the Gold vs USD exchange rates. Against the US Dollar, gold is losing is value for quite some time. That is because the USD is too strong right now. For example, the Euro has lost almost 30% of its value against the USD in the past 12 months. When compared to the EUR, gold has fared much better.

[Amph]

Everyone who supports the argument that Gold is losing its value, just limits their observation to the Gold vs USD exchange rates. Against the US Dollar, gold is losing is value for quite some time. That is because the USD is too strong right now. For example, the Euro has lost almost 30% of its value against the USD in the past 12 months. When compared to the EUR, gold has fared much better.

this argument is moot, in the sense that it is strong against euro, because euro is loosing its value, so in the end gold isn't becoming really stronger it is just the euro that it is weaker...

gold is indeed losing its old value, comparing it to a an asset that is even more dead doesn't make it stronger,  see where we are going? pointless argument

[bryant.coleman]

this argument is moot, in the sense that it is strong against euro, because euro is loosing its value, so in the end gold isn't becoming really stronger it is just the euro that it is weaker...

Right now, against the US Dollar, all the other currencies are losing their value. The list is quite long, but it includes EUR, UKP, RUR, CHF, AUD, UAH, INR, CAD, CNY.etc. So you can't argue saying that the value of the USD has remained the same, and that of all the other currencies have gone down. The same can be said about commodities such as gold and crude oil. Their value in USD has fallen, mostly because the USD is too strong right now.

[qiwoman2]

Gold is being hoarded well by Asia now especially China, Turkey and India. Anyone a little bit investment savvy is going to collect some gold. It may not be the latest craze but put it this way, Turkey now has atm machines that dispense gold bullion and bank accounts that can send out gold checks. So as long as gold is around people's intrinsic trust in it is always going to be there, especially in the volatile times that we live in currently.

[deisik]

this argument is moot, in the sense that it is strong against euro, because euro is loosing its value, so in the end gold isn't becoming really stronger it is just the euro that it is weaker...

Right now, against the US Dollar, all the other currencies are losing their value. The list is quite long, but it includes EUR, UKP, RUR, CHF, AUD, UAH, INR, CAD, CNY.etc. So you can't argue saying that the value of the USD has remained the same, and that of all the other currencies have gone down. The same can be said about commodities such as gold and crude oil. Their value in USD has fallen, mostly because the USD is too strong right now.

I suggest anyone pretending gold losing its shine put their money where their mouth is. If gold is indeed losing its value, why not short it against euro, dollar and whatnot? Gold can lose value against some currency for some time, but its long-term expectation against any fiat currency out there has never been negative...

[bryant.coleman]

I suggest anyone pretending gold losing its shine put their money where their mouth is. If gold is indeed losing its value, why not short it against euro, dollar and whatnot? Gold can lose value against some currency for some time, but its long-term expectation against any fiat currency has never been negative...

Exactly. Gold will protect its value much better than any of the fiat currencies. As per my understanding, the logic is pretty simple. Let's say right now, some 171,300 tonnes of gold exists in the world (according to BBC). And right now Euro worth some € 1 trillion is in circulation.

Now comes the interesting part. Gold is mined at the rate of 3,000 tonnes per year (growth rate of 1.75% per year), but Euro notes are being produced at the rate of €60 billion per year, which represents a growth rate of 6% per year. This means that the inflation for Euro is going to be much higher, when compared to gold.

[deisik]

I suggest anyone pretending gold losing its shine put their money where their mouth is. If gold is indeed losing its value, why not short it against euro, dollar and whatnot? Gold can lose value against some currency for some time, but its long-term expectation against any fiat currency has never been negative...

Exactly. Gold will protect its value much better than any of the fiat currencies. As per my understanding, the logic is pretty simple. Let's say right now, some 171,300 tonnes of gold exists in the world (according to BBC). And right now Euro worth some € 1 trillion is in circulation.

Now comes the interesting part. Gold is mined at the rate of 3,000 tonnes per year (growth rate of 1.75% per year), but Euro notes are being produced at the rate of €60 billion per year, which represents a growth rate of 6% per year. This means that the inflation for Euro is going to be much higher, when compared to gold.

Not quite so. In the long run you are right indeed, but you don't take into account paper gold, the total amount of which exceeds by a good margin the amount of physical gold out there at sale. This makes the gold market more susceptible to market manipulation and higher price volatility (though not as much as the silver market)...

[bryant.coleman]

Not quite so. In the long run you are right indeed, but you don't take into account paper gold, the total amount of which exceeds by a good margin the amount of physical gold out there at sale. This makes the gold market more susceptible to market manipulation and higher price volatility (though not as much as the silver market)...

I am not considering paper gold at all. It is worthless. Unless you are having physical gold with you, you don't own gold. The market manipulation with paper gold is indeed ongoing in the western nations. But as nations such as China and Russia hoard more and more physical gold, it will become impossible for the Western banks to continue with this manipulation.

[deisik]

Not quite so. In the long run you are right indeed, but you don't take into account paper gold, the total amount of which exceeds by a good margin the amount of physical gold out there at sale. This makes the gold market more susceptible to market manipulation and higher price volatility (though not as much as the silver market)...

I am not considering paper gold at all. It is worthless. Unless you are having physical gold with you, you don't own gold. The market manipulation with paper gold is indeed ongoing in the western nations. But as nations such as China and Russia hoard more and more physical gold, it will become impossible for the Western banks to continue with this manipulation.

It is not worthless, since it, beyond doubt, affects the price of physical gold. Wtf, worthless means zero value and absence of influence, but I don't know a word which would fully convey the meaning of a negative value and influence that paper gold may have on gold prices...

[OROBTC]

...

deisik & bryant.coleman

Paper gold may have some worth now, but eventually it will not.  At that point, gold  is likely to jump in price by at least an order of magnitude.

"All paper will burn."

-- ANOTHER

*   *   *

Physical gold in your own possession is the key to the Store of Value marvel of gold.  When will this happen (paper gold to zero, physical to the moon)?  Beats me, but it feels like it will not be long.

I was thinking it might happen in 2009, but that's just me...

[deisik]

...

deisik & bryant.coleman

Paper gold may have some worth now, but eventually it will not.  At that point, gold  is likely to jump in price by at least an order of magnitude.

"All paper will burn."

-- ANOTHER

*   *   *

Physical gold in your own possession is the key to the Store of Value marvel of gold.  When will this happen (paper gold to zero, physical to the moon)?  Beats me, but it feels like it will not be long.

I was thinking it might happen in 2009, but that's just me...

It was not just you. I remember it well when a lot of experts, semi-experts, and pseudo-experts claimed gold soon skyrocketing to 2,000$, 3,000$ and over 5,000$ per ounce back then...

[Bitdonator]

Gold will never lose it's shine.
People use gold as store of value for
tousands years.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

...

deisik & bryant.coleman

Paper gold may have some worth now, but eventually it will not.  At that point, gold  is likely to jump in price by at least an order of magnitude.

"All paper will burn."

-- ANOTHER

*   *   *

Physical gold in your own possession is the key to the Store of Value marvel of gold.  When will this happen (paper gold to zero, physical to the moon)?  Beats me, but it feels like it will not be long.

I was thinking it might happen in 2009, but that's just me...

It was not just you. I remember it well when a lot of experts, semi-experts, and pseudo-experts claimed gold soon skyrocketing to 2,000$, 3,000$ and over 5,000$ per ounce back then...

There are always exaggerated claims with everything. But the difference with Bitcoin is, Bitcoin is something totally new and unparalleled with potential to disrupt the very definition of money, while Gold is Gold, and can never have new uses and will not disrupt institutions and technology.

[n2004al]

I think buying gold under 1200$ is a good idea as it keeps going back up to at least 1200 and selling it there currently, eventually it will rise higher but right now it seems thats where it is becoming stagnant.

I think that gold serve not more to earn but to preserve wealth and to protect that from the inflation of the fiat currency. And is (must be) a long term investment (if can be called in this way). So whatever it will be the price (but naturally must be wait a good price and not the first which come) it is worth to buy; but repeat, only if you will want to save it in long term.

[bryant.coleman]

I think that gold serve not more to earn but to preserve wealth and to protect that from the inflation of the fiat currency. And is (must be) a long term investment (if can be called in this way). So whatever it will be the price (but naturally must be wait a good price and not the first which come) it is worth to buy; but repeat, only if you will want to save it in long term.

Well... gold can be used to increase your net worth as well. Gold prices will remain stable, if the demand is equal to the supply. In case the demand outpaces the supply (there can be many reasons, such as population growth, increase in the purchasing power of ethnic groups who purchase gold, central bank accumulation of gold.etc), your net worth will increase.

[neurotypical]

I think that gold serve not more to earn but to preserve wealth and to protect that from the inflation of the fiat currency. And is (must be) a long term investment (if can be called in this way). So whatever it will be the price (but naturally must be wait a good price and not the first which come) it is worth to buy; but repeat, only if you will want to save it in long term.

Well... gold can be used to increase your net worth as well. Gold prices will remain stable, if the demand is equal to the supply. In case the demand outpaces the supply (there can be many reasons, such as population growth, increase in the purchasing power of ethnic groups who purchase gold, central bank accumulation of gold.etc), your net worth will increase.

Gold is always a guaranteed bet... if I was rich (sadly im not) I would have at least 50% of my fortune in gold by now. Anyone that is rich and has more than 50% of their fortune on banks is simply insane. I would put the rest across banks and some solid companies, and I would at least invest in Bitcoin with a 10% of my fortune because it's the most exciting place to be for the future.

[vlajce]

Chinese`s holding most of gold stocks. Why are they waiting to get so low on price no body knows. For past few months gold really drooped the minimum for 6years interval. YEA! First time in 6 years gold is at the lowest price and it keeps falling down.

Anyway I admire platinum price.. and im tracking and buy/sell only that. Gold remains mystery.

[deisik]

Chinese`s holding most of gold stocks. Why are they waiting to get so low on price no body knows. For past few months gold really drooped the minimum for 6years interval. YEA! First time in 6 years gold is at the lowest price and it keeps falling down.

China is the largest holder of the US debt (at about $1.3 trillion). I don't think they care how high or how low the gold price is. Gold is physical, Treasuries not...

[Nightowlace]

Gold will always serve as a good store of value, as long as it cannot be produced synthetically in a cheap manner. However, what most people don't understand is that the price of gold/silver is not based solely on it's true physical supply and demand, but more so it's derivative (futures contract) price. The spot price of gold is determined by what these futures contracts trade for, which are essentially just promises of delivery of physical gold a few months into the future. Unfortunately, there are more future "promises" of gold delivery then there is gold backing those promises. This makes an inflated fractional reserve system that could fall apart if all the hodlers of these futures contracts were to take delivery at the same time. This allows the institutions who have the largest hodlings of contracts to manipulate the price (Goldman Sachs) to their liking. They have an incentive not to take delivery of all those contracts since it would collapse that derivatives bubble.  The gold price is not determined by true physical supply and demand due to these derivatives!

In the end, always buy physical gold/silver that you can hold and store for yourself. Never buy a promise of gold.

The next step is to pop the derivatives bubble to unveil the true price of gold. Blockchain technology may help. 

[deisik]

Gold will always serve as a good store of value, as long as it cannot be produced synthetically in a cheap manner. However, what most people don't understand is that the price of gold/silver is not based solely on it's true physical supply and demand, but more so it's derivative (futures contract) price. The spot price of gold is determined by what these futures contracts trade for, which are essentially just promises of delivery of physical gold a few months into the future. Unfortunately, there are more future "promises" of gold delivery then there is gold backing those promises. This makes an inflated fractional reserve system that could fall apart if all the hodlers of these futures contracts were to take delivery at the same time. This allows the institutions who have the largest hodlings of contracts to manipulate the price (Goldman Sachs) to their liking. They have an incentive not to take delivery of all those contracts since it would collapse that derivatives bubble.  The gold price is not determined by true physical supply and demand due to these derivatives!

You also fail to understand that those gold futures are mostly cash-settled, i.e. you can't demand physical delivery even theoretically (e.g. miNY at Comex). Besides, the fractional reserve system has nothing to do with gold or any other futures...

And yes, I trade gold futures. Do you?

[vlajce]

Chinese`s holding most of gold stocks. Why are they waiting to get so low on price no body knows. For past few months gold really drooped the minimum for 6years interval. YEA! First time in 6 years gold is at the lowest price and it keeps falling down.

China is the largest holder of the US debt (at about $1.3 trillion). I don't think they care how high or how low the gold price is. Gold is physical, Treasuries not...

And what are they gonna do with that gold? Hold it hug it?

[Nightowlace]

Gold will always serve as a good store of value, as long as it cannot be produced synthetically in a cheap manner. However, what most people don't understand is that the price of gold/silver is not based solely on it's true physical supply and demand, but more so it's derivative (futures contract) price. The spot price of gold is determined by what these futures contracts trade for, which are essentially just promises of delivery of physical gold a few months into the future. Unfortunately, there are more future "promises" of gold delivery then there is gold backing those promises. This makes an inflated fractional reserve system that could fall apart if all the hodlers of these futures contracts were to take delivery at the same time. This allows the institutions who have the largest hodlings of contracts to manipulate the price (Goldman Sachs) to their liking. They have an incentive not to take delivery of all those contracts since it would collapse that derivatives bubble.  The gold price is not determined by true physical supply and demand due to these derivatives!

You also fail to understand that those gold futures are mostly cash-settled, i.e. you can't demand physical delivery even theoretically (e.g. miNY at Comex). Besides, the fractional reserve system has nothing to do with gold or any other futures...

And yes, I trade gold futures. Do you?

I'm referring to the trading of gold derivatives as "fractional reserve" since there is only a fraction of those promises backed by physical gold. Please excuse the inclusion of "system" for that refers to something different . I do not trade gold futures; my business is buying and selling physical gold OTC.

Derivatives are a negative influence on the true physical supply/demand price of gold. Would you agree?

[deisik]

Chinese`s holding most of gold stocks. Why are they waiting to get so low on price no body knows. For past few months gold really drooped the minimum for 6years interval. YEA! First time in 6 years gold is at the lowest price and it keeps falling down.

China is the largest holder of the US debt (at about $1.3 trillion). I don't think they care how high or how low the gold price is. Gold is physical, Treasuries not...

And what are they gonna do with that gold? Hold it hug it?

Why do you ask me?

Actually, Chinese are only the 7th to answer that question. You should first ask the US government what they are going to do with their 8,133.5 tonnes of gold, which is 72.6% of all gold held by governments including the International Misery Fund (as of February, 2015)...

[deisik]

I'm referring to the trading of gold derivatives as "fractional reserve" since there is only a fraction of those promises backed by physical gold. Please excuse the inclusion of "system" for that refers to something different . I do not trade gold futures; my business is buying and selling physical gold OTC.

Derivatives are a negative influence on the true physical supply/demand price of gold. Would you agree?

It all depends on what you mean by "negative influence". You should remember that just a few years ago silver surged up to $50 an ounce. Obviously, that wouldn't be possible without paper silver...

So it cuts both ways really

[Nightowlace]

I'm referring to the trading of gold derivatives as "fractional reserve" since there is only a fraction of those promises backed by physical gold. Please excuse the inclusion of "system" for that refers to something different . I do not trade gold futures; my business is buying and selling physical gold OTC.

Derivatives are a negative influence on the true physical supply/demand price of gold. Would you agree?

It all depends on what you mean by "negative influence". You should remember that just a few years ago, silver surged up to $50 an ounce. Obviously, that wouldn't be possible without paper silver...

And I was sitting pretty during that time. By "negative influence" I refer to the incredible manipulation capabilities it affords these financial institutions, the same ones that brought us to our knees in 2008. Do you agree that derivitives bring dishonesty and manipulation to the markets?

[deisik]

I'm referring to the trading of gold derivatives as "fractional reserve" since there is only a fraction of those promises backed by physical gold. Please excuse the inclusion of "system" for that refers to something different . I do not trade gold futures; my business is buying and selling physical gold OTC.

Derivatives are a negative influence on the true physical supply/demand price of gold. Would you agree?

It all depends on what you mean by "negative influence". You should remember that just a few years ago, silver surged up to $50 an ounce. Obviously, that wouldn't be possible without paper silver...

And I was sitting pretty during that time. By "negative influence" I refer to the incredible manipulation capabilities it affords these financial institutions, the same ones that brought us to our knees in 2008. Do you agree that derivitives bring dishonesty and manipulation to the markets?

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

[christycalhoun]

Gold has its value but it was definitely hyped up in recent years. I prefer bitcoin because of the portability of it.

[Nightowlace]

I'm referring to the trading of gold derivatives as "fractional reserve" since there is only a fraction of those promises backed by physical gold. Please excuse the inclusion of "system" for that refers to something different . I do not trade gold futures; my business is buying and selling physical gold OTC.

Derivatives are a negative influence on the true physical supply/demand price of gold. Would you agree?

It all depends on what you mean by "negative influence". You should remember that just a few years ago, silver surged up to $50 an ounce. Obviously, that wouldn't be possible without paper silver...

And I was sitting pretty during that time. By "negative influence" I refer to the incredible manipulation capabilities it affords these financial institutions, the same ones that brought us to our knees in 2008. Do you agree that derivitives bring dishonesty and manipulation to the markets?

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

[Preen]

Miss pricing gives rise to corrections. Happens in every single asset.

[~Bitcoin~]

Gold is being used as ornaments and jewellery so i don't think they will loss its charm in real life. This also have direct impact upon the demand and the price of gold. But yes with the latest technology like bitcoin and cryptocurrency a new type of assets has been added in the financial market other than gold and silver.

I not thing gold have anything similar to bitcoin in terms of price and its use. They are like two different things from different sources.(natural/from technology)

[deisik]

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, gold derivatives do affect the price of gold in the sense it would be quite different (sometimes... often times) had there not been paper gold around. But I still wouldn't call this influence negative, since the word negative has, well, negative connotation associated with it, wtf...

Really, how can it be negative if it allows to get more profits (more often than not)?

[americanpegasus]

Well, the only thing gold had going for it was it was the best decentralized form of money we had until crypto.  It has absolutely shitty velocity and in modern day can't be used for anything.  Gold will die, sadly.  It has been good to us and it will always have value but it will not keep up with "inflation" in coming years.  It won't die all at once, but those who think they will see a massive rise in gold prices may find themselves with a nasty surprise: gold is nearly useless in the modern world.

[markj113]

Well, the only thing gold had going for it was it was the best decentralized form of money we had until crypto.  It has absolutely shitty velocity and in modern day can't be used for anything.  Gold will die, sadly.  It has been good to us and it will always have value but it will not keep up with "inflation" in coming years.  It won't die all at once, but those who think they will see a massive rise in gold prices may find themselves with a nasty surprise: gold is nearly useless in the modern world.

And thats why Russia and China are buying it by the tonne every month and the gold/silver demand at the moment is so high its leading to premium spikes and shortages.  Other countries are fighting to get their gold repatriated but for some reason the US is unable to meet their demands (read it as they no longer have it as its sitting in a vault in China).

UBS are currently ratting out all the other bankers over Gold price fixing.

Gold will see all time highs by end 2016 or beginning of 2017.

Governments will probably launch their own versions of crypto in the future and will maintain control.  Bitcoin will banned and eventually die.

Money = power, currently Bitcoin is insignificant which is why governments haven't tried to crush it yet but why people here think that the bankers and governments will just hand over all that power via bitcoin without a fight are deluded.

[americanpegasus]

And thats why Russia and China are buying it by the tonne every month and the gold/silver demand at the moment is so high its leading to premium spikes and shortages.  Other countries are fighting to get their gold repatriated but for some reason the US is unable to meet their demands (read it as they no longer have it as its sitting in a vault in China).

UBS are currently ratting out all the other bankers over Gold price fixing.

Gold will see all time highs by end 2016 or beginning of 2017.

Governments will probably launch their own versions of crypto in the future and will maintain control.  Bitcoin will banned and eventually die.

Money = power, currently Bitcoin is insignificant which is why governments haven't tried to crush it yet but why people here think that the bankers and governments will just hand over all that power via bitcoin without a fight are deluded.

 
 
A national crypto is a flawed premise that is doomed to failure. 
 
Can you imagine if the entire value of the United States Dollar or Russian Ruble was held in a publicly attackable network?  Welcome to the wars of the future!  We would be torn between securing our own currency and attacking our rivals through all sorts of devious attacks. 
 
And guess what wins?  The neutral currencies that don't draw lines in the sand and welcome all members of humanity.
 

[deisik]

A national crypto is a flawed premise that is doomed to failure. 
 
Can you imagine if the entire value of the United States Dollar or Russian Ruble was held in a publicly attackable network?  Welcome to the wars of the future!  We would be torn between securing our own currency and attacking our rivals through all sorts of devious attacks

Just the way it happens right now. See currency wars (or Soros attack on the pound). I assume no one is talking about moving fiat entirely into the crypto domain (or public network)...

[Nightowlace]

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, gold derivatives do affect the price of gold in the sense it would be quite different (sometimes... often times) had there not been paper gold around. But I still wouldn't call this influence negative, since the word negative has, well, negative connotation associated with it, wtf...

Really, how can it be negative if it allows to get more profits (more often than not)?

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really.

Imagine if every single paper gold contract circulating in the market had the physical gold on deposit (and deliverable) to back it up. How would that affect the price?  That would be the ideal form of a gold derivative IMO. But given the nature of derivatives, these promises can be inflated with only a very small fraction on deposit, which is what these TBTF institutions love.

[iCEBREAKER]

gold is nearly useless in the modern world

Sorry Helicopter Ben, Ron Paul #rekt the "barbarous relic" meme years ago.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJnL10vZ1Y

Tail risks don't go away because we ignore them....any more than fire extinguishers are "nearly useless" just because your house isn't on fire.

[OROBTC]

And thats why Russia and China are buying it by the tonne every month and the gold/silver demand at the moment is so high its leading to premium spikes and shortages.  Other countries are fighting to get their gold repatriated but for some reason the US is unable to meet their demands (read it as they no longer have it as its sitting in a vault in China).

UBS are currently ratting out all the other bankers over Gold price fixing.

Gold will see all time highs by end 2016 or beginning of 2017.

Governments will probably launch their own versions of crypto in the future and will maintain control.  Bitcoin will banned and eventually die.

Money = power, currently Bitcoin is insignificant which is why governments haven't tried to crush it yet but why people here think that the bankers and governments will just hand over all that power via bitcoin without a fight are deluded.

 
  
A national crypto is a flawed premise that is doomed to failure.  
  
Can you imagine if the entire value of the United States Dollar or Russian Ruble was held in a publicly attackable network?  Welcome to the wars of the future!  We would be torn between securing our own currency and attacking our rivals through all sorts of devious attacks.  
  
And guess what wins?  The neutral currencies that don't draw lines in the sand and welcome all members of humanity.

While I agree that any national electronic currencies would be vulnerable to all kinds of rival countries' hacking, I doubt that any "Neutral Currencies" left standing thereafter would be safe from attack...

"... welcome all members of humanity."   <=== Ah, will neutral Switzerland let in any members of humanity Syrians? 

*   *   *

iCEBREAKER I agree, gold is NOT going away anytime soon.  Tail risks is one big reason why.

OK, now I'll watch that video...

[Preen]

Gold is too long standing to ever lose its shine. It is the defacto standard of value for thousands of years. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[deisik]

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, gold derivatives do affect the price of gold in the sense it would be quite different (sometimes... often times) had there not been paper gold around. But I still wouldn't call this influence negative, since the word negative has, well, negative connotation associated with it, wtf...

Really, how can it be negative if it allows to get more profits (more often than not)?

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

[bitgolden]

Precious metal Gold hasn't been recently a superb long term buying option yet gold can be used by only big and rich investors to prevent some sort of slip if in stock exchanges usually threatens. But bitcoin proved as good long term investment by many analysts. So, save in bitcoin.

[fuddudle]

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, gold derivatives do affect the price of gold in the sense it would be quite different (sometimes... often times) had there not been paper gold around. But I still wouldn't call this influence negative, since the word negative has, well, negative connotation associated with it, wtf...

Really, how can it be negative if it allows to get more profits (more often than not)?

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

You stand to be corrected. Markets are created by the few, to make money off the many.

[richardsNY]

Gold is too long standing to ever lose its shine. It is the defacto standard of value for thousands of years. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Gold will remain holding its strong position for another few thousand years. Can't see anything change that.

[Quinn]

According to Mark O'Byrne of GoldCore, gold is slowly losing it's shine. And things like bitcoin and cryptocurrency are stealing the spotlight.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think markets are adequately pricing in the risks that are present around the world today, particularly in Europe and the gold price itself?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

No, I don’t think so. I think in light of the “Grexit”, which you just mentioned, and also the “Brexit” and the overall debt positions globally — we would have a concern that there is a global financial bubble with stock markets at all time record highs, bond markets at all time record highs.

Meanwhile, gold prices have traded sideways, as you said, for a long period of time. We have had a serious correction and we believe there is consolidation. It looks undervalued. At the same time it could go lower before it goes higher. I think technically there is a weakness there and I think there is support at $1140 so short-term there is weakness, quite possibly, but medium to long term the fundamentals look very sound.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think that’s because we have had a breakaway from the idea that gold remains a great hedge towards any risk that’s out there — whether that’s inflation, deflation or just big geopolitical crises or is it just because markets don’t understand that those risks are present and they are ignoring them?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

I think the latter…for the moment.

I think it’s very like the 2003 to 2006-2007 period. The imbalances were building up in the system – meanwhile stock markets kept gallivanting higher and gold was a very under-owned asset and there wasn’t an appreciation of gold as a safe haven asset.

I think you are right.. I think that perception of gold … it has fallen out of favour. Sentiment towards gold is as bad as we have seen it since the 2003/2004 period.

Bitcoin is the more sexy thing. People want to talk about bitcoin and anything with “bit” in the name seems to be doing very well.

Whereas gold is very much less sexy. It’s less on the radar because it has performed quite badly in the short term. But, I suppose past performance is no guarantee of future returns and you have to look at the long-term store of value characteristics of gold as a proven hedging instrument and safe haven asset… over the long term. Not in the short term, obviously.

Carolin Roth of CNBC:

Mark, there simply is no inflationary pressure… I don’t see why gold should be moving higher at all. We are in a disinflationary or low inflation world. I don’t see why gold should be moving past the $1200 level that we’ve been bumping around over the last couple of months. And then we’ve got a dollar that’s moving higher. It’s a bit of a rough patch for the dollar right now but it’s still moving higher. I don’t see why anything we are seeing in gold is more than a dead cat bounce, essentially…?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

You’re right — there [are] no inflationary pressures … right now.

The question is “is that inflation building up?” And I think it probably is.

At the same time gold is not just a hedge against inflation — it’s actually not a really a hedge against inflation per se, it’s more of a hedge against serious inflation and stagflation. It’s also a hedge against deflation.

So when you have a Lehman Brothers moment or a potential “Grexit” there is that significant counterparty risk. And gold — because it has no counterparty risk if you own the actually physical asset — it is actually a hedge against deflation as well.

There is a huge body of academic research that shows that.

I don't think that gold will ever lose its shine.  It may fall back but it will always go back up.

[deisik]

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

You stand to be corrected. Markets are created by the few, to make money off the many.

It is always fascinating how idiots of all types and kinds who don't have a faintest idea what the message is about are ready to pop up and pompously say something which is totally irrelevant, wtf...

In short, go jump in the lake

[HeroCat]

Gold is quite nice asset and many people are buying/selling it through Forex, especially large banks  Banks always have a lot of gold for cash backing and trade 

[Nightowlace]

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, gold derivatives do affect the price of gold in the sense it would be quite different (sometimes... often times) had there not been paper gold around. But I still wouldn't call this influence negative, since the word negative has, well, negative connotation associated with it, wtf...

Really, how can it be negative if it allows to get more profits (more often than not)?

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

You're assuming things in that statement. I'm not saying whether the reason behind a market's existence is for profit making, true price discovery, or both. The point I'm making is that derivatives and their nature, even though they bring profit making to the market (or create a new market entirely), are detrimental to the "true" price of gold, regardless of whether discovering the "true" price of something is one of the main reasons behind a market's existence in the first place. Profit can still be made in the market without all of these inflated bogus promises, is all I'm saying. 

[deisik]

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

You're assuming things in that statement. I'm not saying whether the reason behind a market's existence is for profit making, true price discovery, or both. The point I'm making is that derivatives and their nature, even though they bring profit making to the market (or create a new market entirely), are detrimental to the "true" price of gold, regardless of whether discovering the "true" price of something is one of the main reasons behind a market's existence in the first place. Profit can still be made in the market without all of these inflated bogus promises, is all I'm saying. 

But what is "true" price of gold (or anything)? If you define it as the price established at the markets which trade only physical (most obvious answer, though I can be wrong, lol), I can always turn your argument against you. You say that derivatives massively add up (in a sense) to the amount of gold traded, thereby badly distorting the price. Okay, but I can always say that the "true" market (that without derivatives) does exactly the same (though in the opposite direction), since only a small part of available physical gold is (would be) traded there...

I could even say that all gold traded (paper and physical) more accurately reflects the "true" price of it (than just physical)

[Quinn]

According to Mark O'Byrne of GoldCore, gold is slowly losing it's shine. And things like bitcoin and cryptocurrency are stealing the spotlight.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think markets are adequately pricing in the risks that are present around the world today, particularly in Europe and the gold price itself?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

No, I don’t think so. I think in light of the “Grexit”, which you just mentioned, and also the “Brexit” and the overall debt positions globally — we would have a concern that there is a global financial bubble with stock markets at all time record highs, bond markets at all time record highs.

Meanwhile, gold prices have traded sideways, as you said, for a long period of time. We have had a serious correction and we believe there is consolidation. It looks undervalued. At the same time it could go lower before it goes higher. I think technically there is a weakness there and I think there is support at $1140 so short-term there is weakness, quite possibly, but medium to long term the fundamentals look very sound.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think that’s because we have had a breakaway from the idea that gold remains a great hedge towards any risk that’s out there — whether that’s inflation, deflation or just big geopolitical crises or is it just because markets don’t understand that those risks are present and they are ignoring them?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

I think the latter…for the moment.

I think it’s very like the 2003 to 2006-2007 period. The imbalances were building up in the system – meanwhile stock markets kept gallivanting higher and gold was a very under-owned asset and there wasn’t an appreciation of gold as a safe haven asset.

I think you are right.. I think that perception of gold … it has fallen out of favour. Sentiment towards gold is as bad as we have seen it since the 2003/2004 period.

Bitcoin is the more sexy thing. People want to talk about bitcoin and anything with “bit” in the name seems to be doing very well.

Whereas gold is very much less sexy. It’s less on the radar because it has performed quite badly in the short term. But, I suppose past performance is no guarantee of future returns and you have to look at the long-term store of value characteristics of gold as a proven hedging instrument and safe haven asset… over the long term. Not in the short term, obviously.

Carolin Roth of CNBC:

Mark, there simply is no inflationary pressure… I don’t see why gold should be moving higher at all. We are in a disinflationary or low inflation world. I don’t see why gold should be moving past the $1200 level that we’ve been bumping around over the last couple of months. And then we’ve got a dollar that’s moving higher. It’s a bit of a rough patch for the dollar right now but it’s still moving higher. I don’t see why anything we are seeing in gold is more than a dead cat bounce, essentially…?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

You’re right — there [are] no inflationary pressures … right now.

The question is “is that inflation building up?” And I think it probably is.

At the same time gold is not just a hedge against inflation — it’s actually not a really a hedge against inflation per se, it’s more of a hedge against serious inflation and stagflation. It’s also a hedge against deflation.

So when you have a Lehman Brothers moment or a potential “Grexit” there is that significant counterparty risk. And gold — because it has no counterparty risk if you own the actually physical asset — it is actually a hedge against deflation as well.

There is a huge body of academic research that shows that.

I do not think gold will really lose its shine.  Even today, gold still works an insurance policy.

[n2004al]

I think that gold serve not more to earn but to preserve wealth and to protect that from the inflation of the fiat currency. And is (must be) a long term investment (if can be called in this way). So whatever it will be the price (but naturally must be wait a good price and not the first which come) it is worth to buy; but repeat, only if you will want to save it in long term.

Well... gold can be used to increase your net worth as well. Gold prices will remain stable, if the demand is equal to the supply. In case the demand outpaces the supply (there can be many reasons, such as population growth, increase in the purchasing power of ethnic groups who purchase gold, central bank accumulation of gold.etc), your net worth will increase.

Theoretically you have right. But I can tell that the factors which you give as important in the surpass of supply by demand can be eliminated by the more mined and launched in the market of more gold than the normal amount. In other words, the increase of the amount of gold in the market can be more than the amount which was launched every previous year. In this case your arguments have the same "power" like mines. All the two situations are equally possible to be true. And this situation can make true the same rapport demand/supply as before. But can be possible even the opposite. The people lose their interests for the gold. Or are producing more gold than the need of market for it. And one other factor happen that can make possible the increase of demand. If this can happen demand can go down. The price the same. So no one have earnings but can even loose.

The facts give reason to those last mine sentences. The tendency the last 5 years give a strong trend of the interests about the gold. The interest is decreasing. Because the price are decreasing. These are facts. The trend is not the increase of demands but the decrease of it. It is yet in the months ongoing. See here the trend in the last almost 5 years: http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart

[Xenoph0bia]

I think that gold is very precious and most trusted asset through out the history of mankind.It will always remain an important player to measure the value of the currencies even in future when only digital currencies will rule the financial system. Gold's shine can never be dimmed not even little.Recent decline in price of Gold was after effect of price hype which was created by elite now price is very fair in my opinion.

[roadbits]

I think that gold is very precious and most trusted asset through out the history of mankind.It will always remain an important player to measure the value of the currencies even in future when only digital currencies will rule the financial system. Gold's shine can never be dimmed not even little.Recent decline in price of Gold was after effect of price hype which was created by elite now price is very fair in my opinion.

What ever you said in your post is 100% correct. Gold shine will never go way, it is one of the best investment option for any one looking for long run. The recent prices drop is part of price volatile and if you look at the history of gold price, it has given quite good returns for the investment over the time.

[neochiny]

According to Mark O'Byrne of GoldCore, gold is slowly losing it's shine. And things like bitcoin and cryptocurrency are stealing the spotlight.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think markets are adequately pricing in the risks that are present around the world today, particularly in Europe and the gold price itself?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

No, I don’t think so. I think in light of the “Grexit”, which you just mentioned, and also the “Brexit” and the overall debt positions globally — we would have a concern that there is a global financial bubble with stock markets at all time record highs, bond markets at all time record highs.

Meanwhile, gold prices have traded sideways, as you said, for a long period of time. We have had a serious correction and we believe there is consolidation. It looks undervalued. At the same time it could go lower before it goes higher. I think technically there is a weakness there and I think there is support at $1140 so short-term there is weakness, quite possibly, but medium to long term the fundamentals look very sound.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think that’s because we have had a breakaway from the idea that gold remains a great hedge towards any risk that’s out there — whether that’s inflation, deflation or just big geopolitical crises or is it just because markets don’t understand that those risks are present and they are ignoring them?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

I think the latter…for the moment.

I think it’s very like the 2003 to 2006-2007 period. The imbalances were building up in the system – meanwhile stock markets kept gallivanting higher and gold was a very under-owned asset and there wasn’t an appreciation of gold as a safe haven asset.

I think you are right.. I think that perception of gold … it has fallen out of favour. Sentiment towards gold is as bad as we have seen it since the 2003/2004 period.

Bitcoin is the more sexy thing. People want to talk about bitcoin and anything with “bit” in the name seems to be doing very well.

Whereas gold is very much less sexy. It’s less on the radar because it has performed quite badly in the short term. But, I suppose past performance is no guarantee of future returns and you have to look at the long-term store of value characteristics of gold as a proven hedging instrument and safe haven asset… over the long term. Not in the short term, obviously.

Carolin Roth of CNBC:

Mark, there simply is no inflationary pressure… I don’t see why gold should be moving higher at all. We are in a disinflationary or low inflation world. I don’t see why gold should be moving past the $1200 level that we’ve been bumping around over the last couple of months. And then we’ve got a dollar that’s moving higher. It’s a bit of a rough patch for the dollar right now but it’s still moving higher. I don’t see why anything we are seeing in gold is more than a dead cat bounce, essentially…?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

You’re right — there [are] no inflationary pressures … right now.

The question is “is that inflation building up?” And I think it probably is.

At the same time gold is not just a hedge against inflation — it’s actually not a really a hedge against inflation per se, it’s more of a hedge against serious inflation and stagflation. It’s also a hedge against deflation.

So when you have a Lehman Brothers moment or a potential “Grexit” there is that significant counterparty risk. And gold — because it has no counterparty risk if you own the actually physical asset — it is actually a hedge against deflation as well.

There is a huge body of academic research that shows that.

Gold may lose its shine but it is only temporary, bitcoin and cryptocurrency
may take the spot light but it will only last for atleast 20-30 years IMO,
and in the end gold will still have its value even after a several century or more,

[operrajunk74]

I think gold still got the massive network effect, everyone in the world has the mental image of gold means wealth and luxury. What gold lacks and Bitcoin has, the excitement of novelty and revolution. Gold feels old and established and pretty boring, Bitcoin is an exciting roller coaster into the future. But remember that gold has its own importance in the world and it will be remain.

[markj113]

I think gold still got the massive network effect, everyone in the world has the mental image of gold means wealth and luxury. What gold lacks and Bitcoin has, the excitement of novelty and revolution. Gold feels old and established and pretty boring, Bitcoin is an exciting roller coaster into the future. But remember that gold has its own importance in the world and it will be remain.

Try holding a large bar of gold and then the equivalent value in bitcoin on memory stick and tell me which one feels boring

[birdcat90]

based on the current trend..gold looking down and will hit the support line..

if demand more bigger than supply..of course gold will shine again..maybe i will invest some money on gold if it fall again below 1000$/ troy oz

[jefcacoinit]

Last two and half years gold could not find upward movement. The slow down in economy also a reason for slow gold movements. But gold will shine is future for sure as long as world countries accept it as medium of exchange.

[n2004al]

Last two and half years gold could not find upward movement. The slow down in economy also a reason for slow gold movements. But gold will shine is future for sure as long as world countries accept it as medium of exchange.

The years that gold is going down are near of five and only two and half. So the double of the years given form you. Five years are not few. So this long tendency need to make us to think about its value. It is as it was or it is (will be) a new one not more as it was?

Below the chart which show the price of gold in the last five years:

[thinkinger]

gold was p

Gold may lose its shine but it is only temporary, bitcoin and cryptocurrency
may take the spot light but it will only last for atleast 20-30 years IMO,
and in the end gold will still have its value even after a several century or more,

aggre .it is the game of holding more gold that makes the gold decrease

[qiwoman2]

I think gold will always be a part of a solid investment plan as long as the mentality of humanity remains the same. If our mindset alters and we look at wealth in a different way perhaps gold will not be as valuable. It all depends on where we are heading humanity wise.

[StevenLiang]

I think that gold is very precious and most trusted asset through out the history of mankind.It will always remain an important player to measure the value of the currencies even in future when only digital currencies will rule the financial system. Gold's shine can never be dimmed not even little.Recent decline in price of Gold was after effect of price hype which was created by elite now price is very fair in my opinion.

I am agree with your perspective. The Gold price is quite fair for now.
And gold will always remain in future, same as diamond, ruby, and any other gem.

Btw i'm not sure about BTC can always shining like gems or not? There many alt coin too nowadays who want to follow BTC wins.

[n2004al]

I think that gold is very precious and most trusted asset through out the history of mankind.It will always remain an important player to measure the value of the currencies even in future when only digital currencies will rule the financial system. Gold's shine can never be dimmed not even little.Recent decline in price of Gold was after effect of price hype which was created by elite now price is very fair in my opinion.

I am agree with your perspective. The Gold price is quite fair for now.
And gold will always remain in future, same as diamond, ruby, and any other gem.

Btw i'm not sure about BTC can always shining like gems or not? There many alt coin too nowadays who want to follow BTC wins.

If the "problem" of bitcoin will be another altcoin made from a developer or a group of them I think that it will never any risk for bitcoin. Maybe it will be problem if some country or to many countries (or every country) create and adopt as their currency a digital coin based currency. More this country will have power and will and more it will be developed, more this risk will be greater. If you like, you can learn more and give even your opinion following this thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1205842.0

[Mickeyb]

I don't think that hold will lose its shine in the future. Gold has survived 5,000 years, why would it dissappear now. Surely not because of Bitcoin.

If you look at the historical charts of the gold, you will notice that gold goes up and down in the long cycles. When I say long, I mean 2-4 years long. At the moment we are just in a downward long cycle. Experts do think that the gold will continue its decline in the near future. But one day, gold will climb back again.

[Poppy]

According to Mark O'Byrne of GoldCore, gold is slowly losing it's shine. And things like bitcoin and cryptocurrency are stealing the spotlight.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think markets are adequately pricing in the risks that are present around the world today, particularly in Europe and the gold price itself?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

No, I don’t think so. I think in light of the “Grexit”, which you just mentioned, and also the “Brexit” and the overall debt positions globally — we would have a concern that there is a global financial bubble with stock markets at all time record highs, bond markets at all time record highs.

Meanwhile, gold prices have traded sideways, as you said, for a long period of time. We have had a serious correction and we believe there is consolidation. It looks undervalued. At the same time it could go lower before it goes higher. I think technically there is a weakness there and I think there is support at $1140 so short-term there is weakness, quite possibly, but medium to long term the fundamentals look very sound.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think that’s because we have had a breakaway from the idea that gold remains a great hedge towards any risk that’s out there — whether that’s inflation, deflation or just big geopolitical crises or is it just because markets don’t understand that those risks are present and they are ignoring them?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

I think the latter…for the moment.

Recently gold prices have been fluctuating.  Some time in July the price of gold went down to its lowest but then it rose again, but it went down again. So we can never really say that gold is losing its shine

I think it’s very like the 2003 to 2006-2007 period. The imbalances were building up in the system – meanwhile stock markets kept gallivanting higher and gold was a very under-owned asset and there wasn’t an appreciation of gold as a safe haven asset.

I think you are right.. I think that perception of gold … it has fallen out of favour. Sentiment towards gold is as bad as we have seen it since the 2003/2004 period.

Bitcoin is the more sexy thing. People want to talk about bitcoin and anything with “bit” in the name seems to be doing very well.

Whereas gold is very much less sexy. It’s less on the radar because it has performed quite badly in the short term. But, I suppose past performance is no guarantee of future returns and you have to look at the long-term store of value characteristics of gold as a proven hedging instrument and safe haven asset… over the long term. Not in the short term, obviously.

Carolin Roth of CNBC:

Mark, there simply is no inflationary pressure… I don’t see why gold should be moving higher at all. We are in a disinflationary or low inflation world. I don’t see why gold should be moving past the $1200 level that we’ve been bumping around over the last couple of months. And then we’ve got a dollar that’s moving higher. It’s a bit of a rough patch for the dollar right now but it’s still moving higher. I don’t see why anything we are seeing in gold is more than a dead cat bounce, essentially…?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

You’re right — there [are] no inflationary pressures … right now.

The question is “is that inflation building up?” And I think it probably is.

At the same time gold is not just a hedge against inflation — it’s actually not a really a hedge against inflation per se, it’s more of a hedge against serious inflation and stagflation. It’s also a hedge against deflation.

So when you have a Lehman Brothers moment or a potential “Grexit” there is that significant counterparty risk. And gold — because it has no counterparty risk if you own the actually physical asset — it is actually a hedge against deflation as well.

There is a huge body of academic research that shows that.

[Supercrypt]

I don't think that hold will lose its shine in the future. Gold has survived 5,000 years, why would it dissappear now. Surely not because of Bitcoin.

If you look at the historical charts of the gold, you will notice that gold goes up and down in the long cycles. When I say long, I mean 2-4 years long. At the moment we are just in a downward long cycle. Experts do think that the gold will continue its decline in the near future. But one day, gold will climb back again.

Yes gold will never loose it's own shining. But may be it loose it's attractions towards the big investors as there are multiple other choices now available to them. Bitcoin is the one of them. I guess both bitcoin and gold will have more than enough significant appreciations in near future.

[designerusa]

It is hard for me to think that gold loses its value. It must be manipulation of them to pull gold's price to lows.
It is one of the most trusted things of economy. It won't lose its shine.

[neonshium]

It is hard for me to think that gold loses its value. It must be manipulation of them to pull gold's price to lows.
It is one of the most trusted things of economy. It won't lose its shine.

Yes, gold may be phased it's superlative jump in value appreciations in last 6 to 8 years comparing last 2 or 3 years. Some people claim it's just due to the raise of bitcoin. But we need to rethink for replacing gold with bitcoin it would definitely take more time. Till then gold will be shining more.

[n2004al]

It is hard for me to think that gold loses its value. It must be manipulation of them to pull gold's price to lows.
It is one of the most trusted things of economy. It won't lose its shine.

Yes, gold may be phased it's superlative jump in value appreciations in last 6 to 8 years comparing last 2 or 3 years. Some people claim it's just due to the raise of bitcoin. But we need to rethink for replacing gold with bitcoin it would definitely take more time. Till then gold will be shining more.

These people who think that must be drunk when told these words. Gold and bitcoin are very away with each other and the world of bitcoin is very small and new to affect the world of gold which is much more big and much more old and experienced. We all here are like bitcoin and maybe like this thoughts but that doesn't make true such hypothetical suppositions. I haven't read in all my life with bitcoin (which three years) even one data that can verify the part in bold. This doesn't mean nothing (because someone else might had read), but is important that when someone tell this kind of big things give some data to argue those. Otherwise, he/she first and bitcoin itself second become ridiculous.

Bitcoin is known in very few countries comparing to all the countries of the world and banned in even few of those. But the overall number of all the countries mentioned in the previous sentence is very small (8 banned +3 restricted + 33 regulated and legal = 44 country known bitcoin) compared to all the countries of the world. The countries of the world are more than 200. So about or than 160 country ignore or don't know at all bitcoin. But even in the countries when is known its majority use is in the dark web or to be changed with fiat money. How is possible that something like that, with this kind of activity, make possible the change or move of the price of gold?

Are only dreams....

It is another story the replacement of the position that gold have already in the world of values with the bitcoin. If bitcoin will be able to make true such heroic achievement need to do to many things before. It is very early to speak those big and beauty things. As it is written above, more than 160 countries ignore it. To many others banned it. It is a long long way ahead for bitcoin to dream such position. The first of whose is to wash and bleach itself. The above poster which before this post had hopes that this thing could be happen soon it is in a good way when think to rethink the time when bitcoin could replace gold. But must rethink even that this might not be possible not because bitcoin is not able to do but because are to many hard battles to do before. The end of whose is unknown for everyone.

[pereira4]

Gold is just all network effect, other than that it's an useless piece of mineral. Sure it can be used here and there but that's all. Meanwhile Bitcoin outdoes every other form of money we've ever seen:



It's all a matter of fighting the network effect in favor of Bitcoin. Bitcoin already won every other battle, it just lacks the popularity and acceptance

[n2004al]

Gold is just all network effect, other than that it's an useless piece of mineral. Sure it can be used here and there but that's all. Meanwhile Bitcoin outdoes every other form of money we've ever seen:



It's all a matter of fighting the network effect in favor of Bitcoin. Bitcoin already won every other battle, it just lacks the popularity and acceptance

Gold is a fact, bitcoin is a dream. Gold has its consolidated place in the world of values for thousand years, bitcoin has only 6 year of life and until today is ignored and not known by almost 3/4 of all the countries of the world. I love bitcoin but must give the gold its real place and value. Those are all I can add to my previous post.

Edit: I had a mistake in one my expressions used in my previous post: it must be "might not be" and not "cannot" (as it was before) the possibility that bitcoin replace the gold.

[HeroCat]

Gold is not so popular due to many factors, except may be in Switzerland bank sector  But many private investors are keeping their assets in gold anyway 

[markj113]

Gold is not so popular due to many factors, except may be in Switzerland bank sector   But many private investors are keeping their assets in gold anyway  

Really, do the words "market cap" mean anything to you.

10.9bn ounces of gold are traded daily worth $15,200bn

Do you or family own any gold jewellers, have any electronic devices - contain gold.

So many clueless people spouting crap about gold that know nothing about the subject it makes my head hurt  

If bitcoin had 5% the market that gold has there would be a lot of very rich individuals on this forum.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

Gold is just all network effect, other than that it's an useless piece of mineral. Sure it can be used here and there but that's all. Meanwhile Bitcoin outdoes every other form of money we've ever seen:



It's all a matter of fighting the network effect in favor of Bitcoin. Bitcoin already won every other battle, it just lacks the popularity and acceptance

Gold is a fact, bitcoin is a dream. Gold has its consolidated place in the world of values for thousand years, bitcoin has only 6 year of life and until today is ignored and not known by almost 3/4 of all the countries of the world. I love bitcoin but must give the gold its real place and value. Those are all I can add to my previous post.

Edit: I had a mistake in one my expressions used in my previous post: it must be "might not be" and not "cannot" (as it was before) the possibility that bitcoin replace the gold.

Bitcoin is already a fact, the protocol is solid and it's working. Bitcoin is way more complex than gold because it's intelligent, there's code, it's programmable, gold is just gold, a dumb piece of mineral.
Bitcoin is the future, gold is old and boring. Bitcoin is for the youth, gold is for old people that already has money and just wants to keep it.

[markj113]

Gold is a metal not a mineral.

Yes bitcoin is code,  but whatever encryption man can make another man can break.

Gold has no third party risk.  You hold it and its yours, what you class as a weakness is in fact a strength.

[OROBTC]

Gold is a metal not a mineral.

Yes bitcoin is code,  but whatever encryption man can make another man can break.

Gold has no third party risk.  You hold it and its yours, what you class as a weakness is in fact a strength.

I like gold a lot.  But, there are some risks to gold: it can be stolen, it may be hard to get out of the country (gold shines brightly in the X-Ray machines) and it may be a little hard to exchange depending on where you are/go.

Re Bitcoin, from what I am reading (not an expert), the math is pretty convincing that the system itself is quite robust.  The major weaknesses seem to be when the user (payer and payee) interact.  Exchanges, weak wallet passwords, etc.

So, gold is NOT losing its shine for me.  But there are risks in almost any investment holding.