Gold Losing It's Shine?

[americanpegasus]

And thats why Russia and China are buying it by the tonne every month and the gold/silver demand at the moment is so high its leading to premium spikes and shortages.  Other countries are fighting to get their gold repatriated but for some reason the US is unable to meet their demands (read it as they no longer have it as its sitting in a vault in China).

UBS are currently ratting out all the other bankers over Gold price fixing.

Gold will see all time highs by end 2016 or beginning of 2017.

Governments will probably launch their own versions of crypto in the future and will maintain control.  Bitcoin will banned and eventually die.

Money = power, currently Bitcoin is insignificant which is why governments haven't tried to crush it yet but why people here think that the bankers and governments will just hand over all that power via bitcoin without a fight are deluded.

 
 
A national crypto is a flawed premise that is doomed to failure. 
 
Can you imagine if the entire value of the United States Dollar or Russian Ruble was held in a publicly attackable network?  Welcome to the wars of the future!  We would be torn between securing our own currency and attacking our rivals through all sorts of devious attacks. 
 
And guess what wins?  The neutral currencies that don't draw lines in the sand and welcome all members of humanity.
 

[deisik]

A national crypto is a flawed premise that is doomed to failure. 
 
Can you imagine if the entire value of the United States Dollar or Russian Ruble was held in a publicly attackable network?  Welcome to the wars of the future!  We would be torn between securing our own currency and attacking our rivals through all sorts of devious attacks

Just the way it happens right now. See currency wars (or Soros attack on the pound). I assume no one is talking about moving fiat entirely into the crypto domain (or public network)...

[Nightowlace]

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, gold derivatives do affect the price of gold in the sense it would be quite different (sometimes... often times) had there not been paper gold around. But I still wouldn't call this influence negative, since the word negative has, well, negative connotation associated with it, wtf...

Really, how can it be negative if it allows to get more profits (more often than not)?

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really.

Imagine if every single paper gold contract circulating in the market had the physical gold on deposit (and deliverable) to back it up. How would that affect the price?  That would be the ideal form of a gold derivative IMO. But given the nature of derivatives, these promises can be inflated with only a very small fraction on deposit, which is what these TBTF institutions love.

[iCEBREAKER]

gold is nearly useless in the modern world

Sorry Helicopter Ben, Ron Paul #rekt the "barbarous relic" meme years ago.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJnL10vZ1Y

Tail risks don't go away because we ignore them....any more than fire extinguishers are "nearly useless" just because your house isn't on fire.

[OROBTC]

And thats why Russia and China are buying it by the tonne every month and the gold/silver demand at the moment is so high its leading to premium spikes and shortages.  Other countries are fighting to get their gold repatriated but for some reason the US is unable to meet their demands (read it as they no longer have it as its sitting in a vault in China).

UBS are currently ratting out all the other bankers over Gold price fixing.

Gold will see all time highs by end 2016 or beginning of 2017.

Governments will probably launch their own versions of crypto in the future and will maintain control.  Bitcoin will banned and eventually die.

Money = power, currently Bitcoin is insignificant which is why governments haven't tried to crush it yet but why people here think that the bankers and governments will just hand over all that power via bitcoin without a fight are deluded.

 
  
A national crypto is a flawed premise that is doomed to failure.  
  
Can you imagine if the entire value of the United States Dollar or Russian Ruble was held in a publicly attackable network?  Welcome to the wars of the future!  We would be torn between securing our own currency and attacking our rivals through all sorts of devious attacks.  
  
And guess what wins?  The neutral currencies that don't draw lines in the sand and welcome all members of humanity.

While I agree that any national electronic currencies would be vulnerable to all kinds of rival countries' hacking, I doubt that any "Neutral Currencies" left standing thereafter would be safe from attack...

"... welcome all members of humanity."   <=== Ah, will neutral Switzerland let in any members of humanity Syrians? 

*   *   *

iCEBREAKER I agree, gold is NOT going away anytime soon.  Tail risks is one big reason why.

OK, now I'll watch that video...

[Preen]

Gold is too long standing to ever lose its shine. It is the defacto standard of value for thousands of years. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[deisik]

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, gold derivatives do affect the price of gold in the sense it would be quite different (sometimes... often times) had there not been paper gold around. But I still wouldn't call this influence negative, since the word negative has, well, negative connotation associated with it, wtf...

Really, how can it be negative if it allows to get more profits (more often than not)?

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

[bitgolden]

Precious metal Gold hasn't been recently a superb long term buying option yet gold can be used by only big and rich investors to prevent some sort of slip if in stock exchanges usually threatens. But bitcoin proved as good long term investment by many analysts. So, save in bitcoin.

[fuddudle]

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, gold derivatives do affect the price of gold in the sense it would be quite different (sometimes... often times) had there not been paper gold around. But I still wouldn't call this influence negative, since the word negative has, well, negative connotation associated with it, wtf...

Really, how can it be negative if it allows to get more profits (more often than not)?

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

You stand to be corrected. Markets are created by the few, to make money off the many.

[richardsNY]

Gold is too long standing to ever lose its shine. It is the defacto standard of value for thousands of years. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Gold will remain holding its strong position for another few thousand years. Can't see anything change that.

[Quinn]

According to Mark O'Byrne of GoldCore, gold is slowly losing it's shine. And things like bitcoin and cryptocurrency are stealing the spotlight.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think markets are adequately pricing in the risks that are present around the world today, particularly in Europe and the gold price itself?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

No, I don’t think so. I think in light of the “Grexit”, which you just mentioned, and also the “Brexit” and the overall debt positions globally — we would have a concern that there is a global financial bubble with stock markets at all time record highs, bond markets at all time record highs.

Meanwhile, gold prices have traded sideways, as you said, for a long period of time. We have had a serious correction and we believe there is consolidation. It looks undervalued. At the same time it could go lower before it goes higher. I think technically there is a weakness there and I think there is support at $1140 so short-term there is weakness, quite possibly, but medium to long term the fundamentals look very sound.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think that’s because we have had a breakaway from the idea that gold remains a great hedge towards any risk that’s out there — whether that’s inflation, deflation or just big geopolitical crises or is it just because markets don’t understand that those risks are present and they are ignoring them?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

I think the latter…for the moment.

I think it’s very like the 2003 to 2006-2007 period. The imbalances were building up in the system – meanwhile stock markets kept gallivanting higher and gold was a very under-owned asset and there wasn’t an appreciation of gold as a safe haven asset.

I think you are right.. I think that perception of gold … it has fallen out of favour. Sentiment towards gold is as bad as we have seen it since the 2003/2004 period.

Bitcoin is the more sexy thing. People want to talk about bitcoin and anything with “bit” in the name seems to be doing very well.

Whereas gold is very much less sexy. It’s less on the radar because it has performed quite badly in the short term. But, I suppose past performance is no guarantee of future returns and you have to look at the long-term store of value characteristics of gold as a proven hedging instrument and safe haven asset… over the long term. Not in the short term, obviously.

Carolin Roth of CNBC:

Mark, there simply is no inflationary pressure… I don’t see why gold should be moving higher at all. We are in a disinflationary or low inflation world. I don’t see why gold should be moving past the $1200 level that we’ve been bumping around over the last couple of months. And then we’ve got a dollar that’s moving higher. It’s a bit of a rough patch for the dollar right now but it’s still moving higher. I don’t see why anything we are seeing in gold is more than a dead cat bounce, essentially…?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

You’re right — there [are] no inflationary pressures … right now.

The question is “is that inflation building up?” And I think it probably is.

At the same time gold is not just a hedge against inflation — it’s actually not a really a hedge against inflation per se, it’s more of a hedge against serious inflation and stagflation. It’s also a hedge against deflation.

So when you have a Lehman Brothers moment or a potential “Grexit” there is that significant counterparty risk. And gold — because it has no counterparty risk if you own the actually physical asset — it is actually a hedge against deflation as well.

There is a huge body of academic research that shows that.

I don't think that gold will ever lose its shine.  It may fall back but it will always go back up.

[deisik]

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

You stand to be corrected. Markets are created by the few, to make money off the many.

It is always fascinating how idiots of all types and kinds who don't have a faintest idea what the message is about are ready to pop up and pompously say something which is totally irrelevant, wtf...

In short, go jump in the lake

[HeroCat]

Gold is quite nice asset and many people are buying/selling it through Forex, especially large banks  Banks always have a lot of gold for cash backing and trade 

[Nightowlace]

I thought you were referring to the "true" price of gold as determined by the balance of physical supply and demand. But never mind. The incredible manipulation capabilities that you are talking about wouldn't be possible without people buying all that paper gold or silver, right?

So the dishonesty and manipulation of the markets is quite in harmony with the greed and venality of the profiteers

That is what I'm referring to. The "true" price of gold, as determined by how you mentioned it, is what derivatives have a negative impact on. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, gold derivatives do affect the price of gold in the sense it would be quite different (sometimes... often times) had there not been paper gold around. But I still wouldn't call this influence negative, since the word negative has, well, negative connotation associated with it, wtf...

Really, how can it be negative if it allows to get more profits (more often than not)?

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

You're assuming things in that statement. I'm not saying whether the reason behind a market's existence is for profit making, true price discovery, or both. The point I'm making is that derivatives and their nature, even though they bring profit making to the market (or create a new market entirely), are detrimental to the "true" price of gold, regardless of whether discovering the "true" price of something is one of the main reasons behind a market's existence in the first place. Profit can still be made in the market without all of these inflated bogus promises, is all I'm saying. 

[deisik]

If the goal is to make a profit, then derivatives can be considered a boon. But are they a boon to creating a market that reflects the "true" price of gold? My point is that they're not, or at least not really

This statement is self-contradictory. Markets exist only as long as they can bring profits to their participants (at least, to some of them, lol). In fact, they are created just to make profits (through the exchange of assets), surely not to find out the "true" price of anything...

It is just a useful side effect

You're assuming things in that statement. I'm not saying whether the reason behind a market's existence is for profit making, true price discovery, or both. The point I'm making is that derivatives and their nature, even though they bring profit making to the market (or create a new market entirely), are detrimental to the "true" price of gold, regardless of whether discovering the "true" price of something is one of the main reasons behind a market's existence in the first place. Profit can still be made in the market without all of these inflated bogus promises, is all I'm saying. 

But what is "true" price of gold (or anything)? If you define it as the price established at the markets which trade only physical (most obvious answer, though I can be wrong, lol), I can always turn your argument against you. You say that derivatives massively add up (in a sense) to the amount of gold traded, thereby badly distorting the price. Okay, but I can always say that the "true" market (that without derivatives) does exactly the same (though in the opposite direction), since only a small part of available physical gold is (would be) traded there...

I could even say that all gold traded (paper and physical) more accurately reflects the "true" price of it (than just physical)

[Quinn]

According to Mark O'Byrne of GoldCore, gold is slowly losing it's shine. And things like bitcoin and cryptocurrency are stealing the spotlight.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think markets are adequately pricing in the risks that are present around the world today, particularly in Europe and the gold price itself?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

No, I don’t think so. I think in light of the “Grexit”, which you just mentioned, and also the “Brexit” and the overall debt positions globally — we would have a concern that there is a global financial bubble with stock markets at all time record highs, bond markets at all time record highs.

Meanwhile, gold prices have traded sideways, as you said, for a long period of time. We have had a serious correction and we believe there is consolidation. It looks undervalued. At the same time it could go lower before it goes higher. I think technically there is a weakness there and I think there is support at $1140 so short-term there is weakness, quite possibly, but medium to long term the fundamentals look very sound.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think that’s because we have had a breakaway from the idea that gold remains a great hedge towards any risk that’s out there — whether that’s inflation, deflation or just big geopolitical crises or is it just because markets don’t understand that those risks are present and they are ignoring them?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

I think the latter…for the moment.

I think it’s very like the 2003 to 2006-2007 period. The imbalances were building up in the system – meanwhile stock markets kept gallivanting higher and gold was a very under-owned asset and there wasn’t an appreciation of gold as a safe haven asset.

I think you are right.. I think that perception of gold … it has fallen out of favour. Sentiment towards gold is as bad as we have seen it since the 2003/2004 period.

Bitcoin is the more sexy thing. People want to talk about bitcoin and anything with “bit” in the name seems to be doing very well.

Whereas gold is very much less sexy. It’s less on the radar because it has performed quite badly in the short term. But, I suppose past performance is no guarantee of future returns and you have to look at the long-term store of value characteristics of gold as a proven hedging instrument and safe haven asset… over the long term. Not in the short term, obviously.

Carolin Roth of CNBC:

Mark, there simply is no inflationary pressure… I don’t see why gold should be moving higher at all. We are in a disinflationary or low inflation world. I don’t see why gold should be moving past the $1200 level that we’ve been bumping around over the last couple of months. And then we’ve got a dollar that’s moving higher. It’s a bit of a rough patch for the dollar right now but it’s still moving higher. I don’t see why anything we are seeing in gold is more than a dead cat bounce, essentially…?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

You’re right — there [are] no inflationary pressures … right now.

The question is “is that inflation building up?” And I think it probably is.

At the same time gold is not just a hedge against inflation — it’s actually not a really a hedge against inflation per se, it’s more of a hedge against serious inflation and stagflation. It’s also a hedge against deflation.

So when you have a Lehman Brothers moment or a potential “Grexit” there is that significant counterparty risk. And gold — because it has no counterparty risk if you own the actually physical asset — it is actually a hedge against deflation as well.

There is a huge body of academic research that shows that.

I do not think gold will really lose its shine.  Even today, gold still works an insurance policy.

[n2004al]

I think that gold serve not more to earn but to preserve wealth and to protect that from the inflation of the fiat currency. And is (must be) a long term investment (if can be called in this way). So whatever it will be the price (but naturally must be wait a good price and not the first which come) it is worth to buy; but repeat, only if you will want to save it in long term.

Well... gold can be used to increase your net worth as well. Gold prices will remain stable, if the demand is equal to the supply. In case the demand outpaces the supply (there can be many reasons, such as population growth, increase in the purchasing power of ethnic groups who purchase gold, central bank accumulation of gold.etc), your net worth will increase.

Theoretically you have right. But I can tell that the factors which you give as important in the surpass of supply by demand can be eliminated by the more mined and launched in the market of more gold than the normal amount. In other words, the increase of the amount of gold in the market can be more than the amount which was launched every previous year. In this case your arguments have the same "power" like mines. All the two situations are equally possible to be true. And this situation can make true the same rapport demand/supply as before. But can be possible even the opposite. The people lose their interests for the gold. Or are producing more gold than the need of market for it. And one other factor happen that can make possible the increase of demand. If this can happen demand can go down. The price the same. So no one have earnings but can even loose.

The facts give reason to those last mine sentences. The tendency the last 5 years give a strong trend of the interests about the gold. The interest is decreasing. Because the price are decreasing. These are facts. The trend is not the increase of demands but the decrease of it. It is yet in the months ongoing. See here the trend in the last almost 5 years: http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart

[Xenoph0bia]

I think that gold is very precious and most trusted asset through out the history of mankind.It will always remain an important player to measure the value of the currencies even in future when only digital currencies will rule the financial system. Gold's shine can never be dimmed not even little.Recent decline in price of Gold was after effect of price hype which was created by elite now price is very fair in my opinion.

[roadbits]

I think that gold is very precious and most trusted asset through out the history of mankind.It will always remain an important player to measure the value of the currencies even in future when only digital currencies will rule the financial system. Gold's shine can never be dimmed not even little.Recent decline in price of Gold was after effect of price hype which was created by elite now price is very fair in my opinion.

What ever you said in your post is 100% correct. Gold shine will never go way, it is one of the best investment option for any one looking for long run. The recent prices drop is part of price volatile and if you look at the history of gold price, it has given quite good returns for the investment over the time.

[neochiny]

According to Mark O'Byrne of GoldCore, gold is slowly losing it's shine. And things like bitcoin and cryptocurrency are stealing the spotlight.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think markets are adequately pricing in the risks that are present around the world today, particularly in Europe and the gold price itself?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

No, I don’t think so. I think in light of the “Grexit”, which you just mentioned, and also the “Brexit” and the overall debt positions globally — we would have a concern that there is a global financial bubble with stock markets at all time record highs, bond markets at all time record highs.

Meanwhile, gold prices have traded sideways, as you said, for a long period of time. We have had a serious correction and we believe there is consolidation. It looks undervalued. At the same time it could go lower before it goes higher. I think technically there is a weakness there and I think there is support at $1140 so short-term there is weakness, quite possibly, but medium to long term the fundamentals look very sound.

Wilfred Frost of CNBC:

Do you think that’s because we have had a breakaway from the idea that gold remains a great hedge towards any risk that’s out there — whether that’s inflation, deflation or just big geopolitical crises or is it just because markets don’t understand that those risks are present and they are ignoring them?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

I think the latter…for the moment.

I think it’s very like the 2003 to 2006-2007 period. The imbalances were building up in the system – meanwhile stock markets kept gallivanting higher and gold was a very under-owned asset and there wasn’t an appreciation of gold as a safe haven asset.

I think you are right.. I think that perception of gold … it has fallen out of favour. Sentiment towards gold is as bad as we have seen it since the 2003/2004 period.

Bitcoin is the more sexy thing. People want to talk about bitcoin and anything with “bit” in the name seems to be doing very well.

Whereas gold is very much less sexy. It’s less on the radar because it has performed quite badly in the short term. But, I suppose past performance is no guarantee of future returns and you have to look at the long-term store of value characteristics of gold as a proven hedging instrument and safe haven asset… over the long term. Not in the short term, obviously.

Carolin Roth of CNBC:

Mark, there simply is no inflationary pressure… I don’t see why gold should be moving higher at all. We are in a disinflationary or low inflation world. I don’t see why gold should be moving past the $1200 level that we’ve been bumping around over the last couple of months. And then we’ve got a dollar that’s moving higher. It’s a bit of a rough patch for the dollar right now but it’s still moving higher. I don’t see why anything we are seeing in gold is more than a dead cat bounce, essentially…?

Mark O’Byrne of GoldCore:

You’re right — there [are] no inflationary pressures … right now.

The question is “is that inflation building up?” And I think it probably is.

At the same time gold is not just a hedge against inflation — it’s actually not a really a hedge against inflation per se, it’s more of a hedge against serious inflation and stagflation. It’s also a hedge against deflation.

So when you have a Lehman Brothers moment or a potential “Grexit” there is that significant counterparty risk. And gold — because it has no counterparty risk if you own the actually physical asset — it is actually a hedge against deflation as well.

There is a huge body of academic research that shows that.

Gold may lose its shine but it is only temporary, bitcoin and cryptocurrency
may take the spot light but it will only last for atleast 20-30 years IMO,
and in the end gold will still have its value even after a several century or more,