How to grow the Bitcoin idea?

[S3052]

Bitcoiners,

I thought it is a good idea to bring many angles in this forum together, because many of them touch this question:

How to grow the Bitcoin idea and avoid that governments shut it down?

I would like to see some answers / opinions on how to make Bitcoins widespread and more and more valuable, but at the same time do it in a sensible way to avoid that it will be shut down.

Related to this, the founders must have thought about this question, so how did they address this question?

[kiba]

I was working on getting EFF to accept bitcoins and then work on other geek organization. The idea is that if bitcoin got attacked by annoying government people, there will be people who will speak and defend on our behalfs. It's all about uniting the tribe of geeks/hackers/singularists/technolibertarians into a united front for bitcoins.

[S3052]

That makes 100% sense.

Another territory is financial newsletters / analysts who have the same p.o.v. A great example is that Bitcoin was featured in Friday's Elliottwave.com Theorist by famous Rob Prechter.

We need more of that!

[jgarzik]

How to grow the Bitcoin idea and avoid that governments shut it down?

Help make sure well over 50% of the businesses using bitcoin are legitimate, tax-paying, regulation-complying business entities

[mizerydearia]

How to grow the Bitcoin idea and avoid that governments shut it down?

Help make sure well over 50% of the businesses using bitcoin are legitimate, tax-paying, regulation-complying business entities

Don't forget the obligatory unwritten 1% Satoshi tax that you should manually calculate.

[caveden]

How to grow the Bitcoin idea and avoid that governments shut it down?

To help it grow we should try not only the geek community as mentioned above, but the libertarian community as well. If we make a good number of libertarians realize that bitcoins are even better than gold as currency, they will support it.
If anyone here has any sort of contact with any libertarian think tank, please, talk to them about bitcoins!

Regarding avoiding governments to shut it down... well... if it ever gets sufficiently widespread to threat their monetary policies, you may be sure they will try to shut it down.
But... how do you shut down a P2P system? 

[FreeMoney]

How to grow the Bitcoin idea and avoid that governments shut it down?

To help it grow we should try not only the geek community as mentioned above, but the libertarian community as well. If we make a good number of libertarians realize that bitcoins are even better than gold as currency, they will support it.
If anyone here has any sort of contact with any libertarian think tank, please, talk to them about bitcoins!

Regarding avoiding governments to shut it down... well... if it ever gets sufficiently widespread to threat their monetary policies, you may be sure they will try to shut it down.
But... how do you shut down a P2P system?  

You aren't going to win many converts saying "Bitcoin is better than gold", but maybe try "Bitcoin is a great compliment to gold", which is true since it is very different, but still has the important features.

[caveden]

You aren't going to win many converts saying "Bitcoin is better than gold", but maybe try "Bitcoin is a great compliment to gold", which is true since it is very different, but still has the important features.

But it is better than gold. I am not saying that it is a better investment option right now, just that it is a better currency.
Any commodity is a potential currency. What made gold and silver excellent currencies are some inner features of such precious metals, that are not only shared by bitcoins, but improved.
If you have patience with automatic translations, I tried to explain it here: http://tinyurl.com/38llgfq

[mizerydearia]

Regarding avoiding governments to shut it down... well... if it ever gets sufficiently widespread to threat their monetary policies, you may be sure they will try to shut it down.
But... how do you shut down a P2P system?  

By labeling everyone who participates as a t3l2l2ol2ist and slapping them with fake charges to aid in prosecution.  Imagine: The LARGEST t3l2l2ol2ist network to have existed as of yet.

Word intentionally obfuscated.

p2p systems cannot be shutdown unless internet connection is barred !!

But the masses can become afraid by instilling fear

[spndr7]

p2p systems cannot be shutdown unless internet connection is barred !!

[caveden]

By labeling everyone who participates as a t3l2l2ol2ist and slapping them with fake charges to aid in prosecution.  Imagine: The LARGEST t3l2l2ol2ist network to have existed as of yet.

Well, they've been trying something similar against piracy, labeling people "thief" and all... so far the results haven't been that effective

[The Madhatter]

But... how do you shut down a P2P system? 

If "they" have trouble keeping centralized websites like TPB down, how can they expect to shut down a massive P2P application? lol

[FreeMoney]

You aren't going to win many converts saying "Bitcoin is better than gold", but maybe try "Bitcoin is a great compliment to gold", which is true since it is very different, but still has the important features.

But it is better than gold. I am not saying that it is a better investment option right now, just that it is a better currency.
Any commodity is a potential currency. What made gold and silver excellent currencies are some inner features of such precious metals, that are not only shared by bitcoins, but improved.
If you have patience with automatic translations, I tried to explain it here: http://tinyurl.com/38llgfq

I mostly agree. I think a widely used bitcoin would be way more practical and convenient than gold. It's just that right now something like buying a car would involve a lot of currency loss because of the thin (relative to the price of a car) markets. And the trouble of actually finding the car for sale. Later though, it will be hands down better imo.

[FreeMoney]

But... how do you shut down a P2P system? 

If "they" have trouble keeping centralized websites like TPB down, how can they expect to shut down a massive P2P application? lol

If you wanted to keep bitcoin down with force you would go after the biggest bitcoin accepting businesses. It's bad PR to attack granny for sending birthday coins to Johnny.

But they can't stop murder, rape, theft, vandalism, etc... so whatever, good luck, guys.

[The Madhatter]

Exactly. Spreading propaganda would be their only recourse.

They'd spread fear and panic on their traditional media about Bitcoin. Much like how they spread fear about the Internet right now. Only credit card thieves, kiddie porn dealers, and terrorists use the Internet, remember?

Hopefully independent media will outpace traditional media and they'll be screwed on that front as well. One could only hope.

Lots of people believe that the governments of the world will just turn the internet off. I don't believe that. It is relied on too heavily for commerce now. Why doesn't China just *completely* block the outside world? Same reason.

[thrashaholic]

Regarding avoiding governments to shut it down... well... if it ever gets sufficiently widespread to threat their monetary policies, you may be sure they will try to shut it down.

Exactly - and isn't that the point of all of this, really? You can't have it both ways, people.

[kiba]

Regarding avoiding governments to shut it down... well... if it ever gets sufficiently widespread to threat their monetary policies, you may be sure they will try to shut it down.

Exactly - and isn't that the point of all of this, really? You can't have it both ways, people.

The bitcoin escape velocity - the point at which governmental damage control is ultimately futile and that we will never ever go back to the USD or other nation-state controlled currency.

[em3rgentOrdr]

You aren't going to win many converts saying "Bitcoin is better than gold", but maybe try "Bitcoin is a great compliment to gold", which is true since it is very different, but still has the important features.

But it is better than gold. I am not saying that it is a better investment option right now, just that it is a better currency.
Any commodity is a potential currency. What made gold and silver excellent currencies are some inner features of such precious metals, that are not only shared by bitcoins, but improved.
If you have patience with automatic translations, I tried to explain it here: http://tinyurl.com/38llgfq

FreeMoney is right.  Unfortunately, hard-money Austrian-economic libertarians are immediately critical of bitcoin when they find out that it is backed by "nothing" !  I myself think bitcoin is superior currency to gold (since gold cost money to store, insure, is difficult to move around as most travel hubs such as airports will detect it, and is not safe carrying around in your pocket on dangerous city streets, etc.).  But you are better of trying to tell gold-bugs that bitcoin is a great *compliment* to gold, not a *replacement*, since bitcoin is great for trading online pseudonymously, but in the case of total war or any distastes that break internet connections, then gold (and general survival skills) are better long-term investments.  For sure, don't tell them they should move all their assets from gold into bitcoin

[BrightAnarchist]

You aren't going to win many converts saying "Bitcoin is better than gold", but maybe try "Bitcoin is a great compliment to gold", which is true since it is very different, but still has the important features.

But it is better than gold. I am not saying that it is a better investment option right now, just that it is a better currency.
Any commodity is a potential currency. What made gold and silver excellent currencies are some inner features of such precious metals, that are not only shared by bitcoins, but improved.
If you have patience with automatic translations, I tried to explain it here: http://tinyurl.com/38llgfq

FreeMoney is right.  Unfortunately, hard-money Austrian-economic libertarians are immediately critical of bitcoin when they find out that it is backed by "nothing" !  I myself think bitcoin is superior currency to gold (since gold cost money to store, insure, is difficult to move around as most travel hubs such as airports will detect it, and is not safe carrying around in your pocket on dangerous city streets, etc.).  But you are better of trying to tell gold-bugs that bitcoin is a great *compliment* to gold, not a *replacement*, since bitcoin is great for trading online pseudonymously, but in the case of total war or any distastes that break internet connections, then gold (and general survival skills) are better long-term investments.  For sure, don't tell them they should move all their assets from gold into bitcoin

This is definitely true. I contacted Mises.org about publishing my Bitcoin article. Of course, they rejected it because they said it would "appear to be a promotion". I think they're worried about the legal ramifications of it.

I guess Mises is too academic anyway. Best to spread the word to other groups that would be more willing to endorse it.

Actually endorsement/smorshment... what we really need is killer apps for bitcoin. The facebook micro-payment idea really is one of the best things I've seen so far to drive users to Bitcoin, making our "stock" go up

[chaord]

Actually endorsement/smorshment... what we really need is killer apps for bitcoin. The facebook micro-payment idea really is one of the best things I've seen so far to drive users to Bitcoin, making our "stock" go up

I concur that a killer app is necessary.  I personally have never paid any money for anything on facebook.  Is there a way for us to assess the market?  Are any facebook app developers out there actually profitable from their internal currencies? If so, who? 

I'd like to know how much USD is currently flowing through facebook applications.  If it's substantial we actually could have a very good value proposition for the developers, by decreasing their dependence on PayPal.