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Author Topic: Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST  (Read 48057 times)
jbreher
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September 11, 2012, 03:58:11 PM
 #81

"Why do we need to investigate further before filing complaints?"

The more factual info we can provide, the sooner that things can be brought to a conclusion.

Some 'know' that Pirate operated a ponzi. Except they don't know.
Some 'know' that pirate is also Trendon Shavers. Except they don't know.
Some 'know' that pirate accumulated 500KBTC. Except they don't know.
Some 'know' that BST put everything in Zeek. Except they don't know.

I could go on. In the end, the only things we seem to know are that a number of us placed money in an entity known as Bitcoin Savings and Trust, and that we are now unable to withdraw our money.

I'd like to get (some of) my coins back. To this end, I would like to file a formal complaint. But I don't feel I have enough concrete info at this point to do so. I don't even know where I'd file a complaint.

I understand the point that we don't need to have everything all wrapped up before 'the authorities' should be brought in. But the more real concrete info we can provide, the further ahead we will be. Even a trace through block chain analysis would be invaluable. Can you imagine trying to explain to Bitcoin to some noob investigators, who will spend weeks just trying to wrap their minds around this new monetary concept before they actually get on the pirate trail?

My life oscillates between periods of having money but no time, and period of having time but no money. Right now I am in the former. I don't know how to trace money flows through the blockchain. I don't know how to track down individuals from fragments of their online life. Given my current condition of 'money but no time', I am willing to consider chipping in to a coordinated effort.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a known extortionist. Read my Trust for details. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglyFwTjfDU
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September 11, 2012, 04:09:01 PM
 #82

"Why do we need to investigate further before filing complaints?"

The more factual info we can provide, the sooner that things can be brought to a conclusion.

Some 'know' that Pirate operated a ponzi. Except they don't know.

You dont have to know to file a complaint.  All that matters is that he owes you a sum of money. Let the authorities figure out if/how Pirate squandered it.

Quote
Some 'know' that pirate is also Trendon Shavers. Except they don't know.

Thats a valid point, but again only the authorities would be able to prove this. Its not like you will get his ISP to cough up his real identity without a warrant. File a complaint against Joe Doe and tell the police what you know. If nothing else we have pictures and assumed names, it should be very easy for them to verify if it is indeed Trendon Shavers.

Quote
Some 'know' that pirate accumulated 500KBTC. Except they don't know.

Doesnt matter.

Quote
Some 'know' that BST put everything in Zeek. Except they don't know.

Doesnt matter.

Quote
To this end, I would like to file a formal complaint. But I don't feel I have enough concrete info at this point to do so. I don't even know where I'd file a complaint.

Where I live, you simply go to the police to file a complaint. We have a special branch for internet related crime and fraud, Im sure most countries have that now. And if thats not the appropriate channel, at least they should be able to direct you elsewhere.

In short: stop trying to do the police work yourself, begin by filing a formal complaint. Its about time someone in uniform called up pirate or rang his doorbell.
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September 11, 2012, 04:31:23 PM
 #83

The first word you will get from police or FBI or anyone, if you try to file a compliant is "idiot"

Is Bitcoin merged mine with mining idiots & it shared by miners?

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mobodick
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September 11, 2012, 04:33:14 PM
 #84

Has he been active in IRC at all lately?
He took a week off from friday 31th August to like 7-8th September where he said a few words (most notably that he did not participate in the zeekrewards ponzi, which was a theory).

... and acted all like "what? zeek? i don't know it. Honestly. Trust me." while the community was abuzz with it.
He would have to be locked away in a cave without internet to not know by that time what zeek was.
As i see it this theory is not put to sleep by what pirate claims.
And meanwhile no better explanation from pirate himself...
jbreher
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September 11, 2012, 04:35:41 PM
 #85

You dont have to know ...

You are right. Answers to these are likely not required in order to file a complaint. However, any competent investigator will ask these questions at first interview. Ready answers would be beneficial.

I take it as axiomatic that coordination amongst all agencies 'on the case', all sharing what each uncover, will lead to a more timely and satisfactory solution for all (except perhaps for pirate himself). Are you actively advocating against such coordination?

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a known extortionist. Read my Trust for details. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglyFwTjfDU
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September 11, 2012, 06:12:38 PM
 #86

First; I was not participating on Pirate's deals and has not lose or win nothing. Just observing.

The bitcoin course at 19.8 indicates strongly that at that time, Pirate was just trying to pay out all the withdrawals.

If he was trying to steal everyone's bitcoins, he would have no reason to try to exchange his fiat money (or money he controlled) to bitcoins at all cost.

Clearly at that time, someone (most likely Pirate) was trying to buy a lot of bitcoins. That causesd, of course, the price to go up. And at some point, he realized, that the price was too high for him to buy enought bitcoins with the dollars (or Euros etc.) he got.

He must have lost a lot of money trying to fill the demand. If he was going to steal the money, he would not have done that. But that's the start, not necessarily the end. Not a surprice, if, after all what has happened, he just run off with the coins.

If I were a participant, I would suggest pirate just to pay back the capital he owned at 19.8, but not the interest after that. The interest might make it impossible for him to get out without being a criminal and thus he might think better to run away.

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September 11, 2012, 06:22:26 PM
 #87

Clearly at that time, someone (most likely Pirate) was trying to buy a lot of bitcoins. That causesd, of course, the price to go up.

There are a million factors that could influence BTC price, but if you must link it to pirate, consider that one plausible theory currently says pirate was constantly selling his coins to invest dollars in Zeek (and perhaps in a very stupid attempt to control BTC price). Just the fact he stopped selling coins could just as easily have caused the price rise, and would still  leave pirate mostly empty handed in both dollars and btc.
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September 11, 2012, 06:32:28 PM
 #88

Clearly at that time, someone (most likely Pirate) was trying to buy a lot of bitcoins. That causesd, of course, the price to go up.

There are a million factors that could influence BTC price, but if you must link it to pirate,

Check this with one month timescale. What happened in 18-19 cannot be a coincidence. It must have somethingto do with pirate.
https://mtgox.com/index.html?Currency=USD

And that also reveals he was first buying coins, until at some point he stopped. And that caused a very sudden drop in the price.

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September 11, 2012, 06:46:46 PM
 #89

Check this with one month timescale. What happened in 18-19 cannot be a coincidence. It must have somethingto do with pirate.
https://mtgox.com/index.html?Currency=USD

I certainly must not, but even if it does, you might have cause and effect reversed. It could be that the increase in price made pirate stop his business (if he was running through zeek, a sharp in crease in btc price would have been a problem since he would make his "profit" in dollar). It could be that people finding out about pirate's imminent default cause an increase, after all a ponzi meant people held 500K coins less than they thought. And most likely, as I said, it could be pirate no longer selling the bulk of his inflow and thus no longer artificially keeping btc price low. I see no shred of evidence that pirate was buying coins on a large scale.
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September 11, 2012, 07:07:53 PM
 #90

Check this with one month timescale. What happened in 18-19 cannot be a coincidence. It must have somethingto do with pirate.
https://mtgox.com/index.html?Currency=USD

I certainly must not, but even if it does, you might have cause and effect reversed. It could be that the increase in price made pirate stop his business (if he was running through zeek, a sharp in crease in btc price would have been a problem since he would make his "profit" in dollar). It could be that people finding out about pirate's imminent default cause an increase, after all a ponzi meant people held 500K coins less than they thought. And most likely, as I said, it could be pirate no longer selling the bulk of his inflow and thus no longer artificially keeping btc price low. I see no shred of evidence that pirate was buying coins on a large scale.


Was really happy that a fresh head gave signal to concentrate on the essentials !  --Find pirate and get his accounting-- full stop !

Funding has to be provided not to goats hands but to one of the "naysayers".

Now you are diverting attention on shit.....fact is : when price rises from 4 to 15 $ and still rests at 11$, the loot is here and not in FIAT !

Would have still been easily found, when not enough time is already been wasted, to get the brotherhood to their senses.

Sorry, if zykloogish again makes your brain - cells sweat.

Cheers Zyk
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September 11, 2012, 08:11:50 PM
 #91

Frankie,
You are answering your own question although you problably dont see it.


The fact that he likely has only a fraction of the deposits is why some have said this effort is throwing good money after bad.


You've always said you understand Pirate's business model, so I would appreciate some of your expertise here. How does paying people to "trick" them into think it's a Ponzi help Pirate? Keep in mind, these were the same people telling people not to invest and to pull out their funds--for months, in many cases.

By your own logic:

Pirate only has a fraction of the money so hunting him is to throw good money after bad -> I.e. Do not go after Pirate since he ran a ponzi.

How does paying people to "trick" them into think it's a Ponzi help Pirate? -> If people believe Pirate has no money they wont go after him.


Best regards

Do you see where I say "telling people not to invest...ect"?

P4cman's been calling it a likely Ponzi at least since June from what I can tell. Let's say Pirate really did have a miraculous 10% a week profit machine (in spite of the lack of evidence), let's say we're in Goat's public persona's baa-baa land and Pirate is making interest hand over fist, but he turns to the darkside by becoming an ordinary (non-Ponzi!) scammer.

In this infantile fantasy world articulated by Goat's public persona, how does it make sense to spread "FUD" about Pirate before (and usually long before) scammer Pirate takes the money and runs?
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September 11, 2012, 08:24:05 PM
 #92

(would any of the ponzi-thumping morons like to explain what's up with GPUMax, since you obviously know everything about pirate?)

Well, I can think of one obvious purpose for GPUMax:
People trusted pirate because:

C: There was evidence that he was doing some sort of legitimate business

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September 11, 2012, 08:31:27 PM
 #93

We already know quite a bit that would be useful to the authorities.

1) His name is probably Trendon Shavers, from McKinney TX.

2) He runs gpumax.com, which is registered under "Don Shrents".  A little investigation would easily dig up how these people are related.

3) We have a decent estimate of the USD value of the funds he's liable for, and the fact that he has suddenly gone silent when the bill came due. (tax evasion is treason in the US these days, they'll hunt him if only for that)

4) We have circumstantial evidence that he may have been running a ponzi scheme, and that he could possibly have been involved in money laundering (why pay over par for mining activity?). Even if not, if he doesn't pay then it's still grand theft.

Assuming pirate doesn't come out and make some substantial announcement, and more importantly make a tangible effort to start coughing up, anyway. I think most of us are perfectly willing to accept that he can't pay interest from the time things fell apart, or would be satisfied just getting most of our money back.

However, as long as he fails to inspire confidence that he's not just going to run away, we ought to keep whetting our knifes if only to make sure that pirate knows we're not playing around. There's plenty of useful information we could dig that would speed along the process of conviction should the stick become necessary.

makomk: That still doesn't make much sense. How was he able to pay miners over par and pay out interest at the same time? Unless he had some other purpose for it, that would have made him bleed money much faster.

I'm So Meta, Even This Acronym
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September 11, 2012, 08:39:12 PM
 #94

makomk: That still doesn't make much sense. How was he able to pay miners over par and pay out interest at the same time? Unless he had some other purpose for it, that would have made him bleed money much faster.
I reckon a lot of the early GPUMAX demand was probably genuine external customers who wanted to use it for pool hopping, but compared to running a Ponzi scheme that's not hugely profitable for Pirate himself.

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September 11, 2012, 08:40:58 PM
 #95

I want a piece of him. How can I contribute to the cause?
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September 11, 2012, 08:41:36 PM
 #96

Let's not forget the IRS is an entity that would be very interested in collecting what's owed on income earned, even if they need to take his house, cars, etc.
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September 11, 2012, 08:54:26 PM
 #97


1) His name is probably Trendon Shavers, from McKinney TX.

2) He runs gpumax.com, which is registered under "Don Shrents".  A little investigation would easily dig up how these people are related.

However, as long as he fails to inspire confidence that he's not just going to run away, we ought to keep whetting our knifes if only to make sure that pirate knows we're not playing around. There's plenty of useful information we could dig that would speed along the process of conviction should the stick become necessary.

1. Who has an BCST account and lives there ? bitlane?

2. Put up a wallet contolled by a "naysayer" who, even if difficult to find, sympathizes with bitlane Wink and has the communities future in mind ( BinaryMage ?).

3. They together finance some Humphrey Bogart to thouroughly investigate location and above mentioned identities around McKinney.

4. Report to in closed thread     https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108657.0

Cheers Zyk
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September 11, 2012, 08:55:51 PM
 #98

1) His name is probably Trendon Shavers, from McKinney TX.
2) He runs gpumax.com, which is registered under "Don Shrents".  A little investigation would easily dig up how these people are related.

It's not uncommon for people to (unconsciously) make up aliases that keep some traits of their real names (initials, syllables etc) without realizing it.

Trendon Shavers
Don Shrents

jbreher
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September 11, 2012, 09:07:01 PM
 #99

3) We have a decent estimate of the USD value of the funds he's liable for,
I don't want to detract from the value of your listing this info, and I don't want to run this thread off the rails. However, I think the only bit of evidence we have for the 5.5M USD figure is his single boast of 'controlling' 500K BTC in an irc session. No?

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a known extortionist. Read my Trust for details. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglyFwTjfDU
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September 11, 2012, 09:08:45 PM
 #100

Humphrey Bogarts may be found already Wink but they do no good in virtuality

we need him to feel a real world transmission of contact....that may be enough....to save a lot of efforts and monies, sleazy laywers and judges would extort otherwise.

CK
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